[Champion Concept] Eclipse, The True Heretic

ModCaptainMårvelous··28 votes·7,132 views

It's parrot bait mostly

Eclipse (WIP Title)

So basically here are all my ideas and personal thoughts about this whole character and expanding Mount Targon a bit.

What changes in the lore?(TL;DR)

  • 1.) Radiant Dawn/Radiant Dusk (Currently known as Scorn of the Moon, WIP title) come from families.
  • 2.) Lunari were always smaller than Solari and Rakkoran were basically middle class/uninterested in their religious problems.
  • 3.) Diana’s blade once had an accompanying shield.
  • 4.) Diana and Leona are POSSIBLY long-lost relatives. (We’re talking thousands of years.)
  • 5.) Lunari original purge is due to the death of the Radiant Dusk. (More on that below)

Lore

“Sun and moon are but two halves to a whole. To bicker over them is what children do.”

Thousands of years ago, Lunari and Solari lived in peace with the Rakkoran upon Mount Targon. While Lunari were weaker than the Solari, both had paragons of their ideals: The Radiant Dawn and The Radiant Dusk. Twin sentinels embodying everything of both tribes. The peace was occasionally uneasy but balance was maintained. Until the heretic took the mantle of Dawn, that is.

She hailed from the Solari family of wealth and power, as the Radiant Dawn always did. She was a paragon of protection and love. Yet deep down what she always wanted was out of her reach. The Radiant Dusk at the time, Davik, was a childhood friend and someone she admired above all else. She loved him yet never told him of her feelings, as it was forbidden that the Dawn and Dusk ever casually work as one. These feelings festered inside of her until she heard of a rare, coming event: The Eclipse. * When sun and moon meld, they become one. At this, her eyes opened: Why have two who worship the sun and moon when they could be one? She could be with who she desired and this uneasy peace would finally end. Eagerly and alone, she approached Davik with an offer: Upon the eclipse, they would join as lovers and produce a child of both sun and moon. A messiah that would bring an end to the uneasy peace between their two tribes.*

Not only was Davik appalled by the idea, he broke her heart and mind by calling her unworthy of her title as the radiant dawn, a true heretic and monster. Devastated from this, she took the alternative approach: As Davik turned his back, she pierced his chest with her sword and slaughtered the Radiant Dusk. Throwing his blade and armor into a crypt, she took his shield and went to the top of Mount Targon on the day of the eclipse. If Davik would not bring forth an end to this conflict, she would do so by her own hands.

Channeling the strength of sun and moon, the shield of Dusk split in two. Metal fused with her gauntlets as she felt power surge through her. She was no longer the dawn. She was the eclipse. Her hair turned silver and gold. Her eyes turned to both silver and gold. Even her armor seemed to shimmer of both moon and sun as she walked. She was ascended beyond the petty war. Others, however, did not think so.

Davik’s body was discovered and the wound was obviously caused by her blade. Solari and Lunari did unite, for a brief time, but against her. She was locked away, hidden beneath Mount Targon as the true heretic that killed the last of the Radiant Dusk. Without a defender to maintain the peace, the Solari eventually wiped out the remaining Lunari they could find. In her agony to bring balance she had caused an upset. She had ruined it all.

For centuries she had sat under the mountain. Lamenting over her error. Seething over Davik’s failure to bring balance. Plotting to right her wrong. Finally, the year of the eclipse came once more and her powers waxed. She broke free of her bonds and moved to the surface of Mount Targon. Much had changed but her plan was clear: Go to the Institute of War. Kill the current Radiant Dawn and Radiant Dusk. Bring balance to both sun and moon...

Regardless of who stood in her way.

  “What does she look like?”

Three key words speak out when talking about Eclipse. I like to call these the magic A’s of Eclipse:

  • ASCENDED- Eclipse is a woman who has pushed beyond sun and moon. She should look something akin to a demi-god and her stance, movement and armor reflect that.
  • ANCIENT- Her armor should resemble Leona’s (Radiant Dawn armor) but be older. The usual way to reflect this is heavier armor/thicker plates at the cost of maneuverability. It should also look like it has weathered ages of neglect.
  • ARROGANT- She sees herself as a messiah. She “knows” what is best for Solari, Lunari, for Valoran. To go against her, in Eclipse’s mind, is to go against what is the truth. She should walk, talk and fight with a sense of regality that may-or-may-not be undeserved.
  • AGELESS- Sure she’s been locked up for centuries but she should look like a warrior princess. Granted, this is due to the power of both sun and moon but she shouldn’t look like a skeletal, gaunt queen. She should possess an air of beauty to her that is both awe-inspiring and humbling.

I’m basically giving free reign with her look. To me personally I’d make her armor bulkier than Leona’s armor or Diana’s armor and, at the same time, give her features of both sun and moon. Silver and Gold should be reoccurring except when they mesh to create pure white. Just be careful and try to make her seem like a juggernaut as opposed to a paragon. She lost her status as protector a long time ago, now she’s just an immovable wall of pure power. The other important thing (and one of the few things I’m dead set on her having) is the Eclipse Shield: Two halves of a shield, one representing the sun and one representing the moon. They can be pushed together to create one shield representing an eclipse (Moon in the sun). If anything I’d say it looks like Pantheon’s shield but cut in half with one “slice” of the shield on each forearm. This woman is a tank and everyone should know it. 

WIP Kit

Keep in mind I’m more conceptual and creative than numbers. This is just a rough outline of what Eclipse’s kit would look like. I envisioned her as a jungler first and support second. She makes plays and her kit revolves around her passive. Please note that despite the sol/luna gauge, Eclipse WOULD use mana!

  • (Passive)Shield of Dawn and Dusk: Every time Eclipse uses an ability she fills one of two halves on a third bar. Sol skills fill the golden half and increase her armor while Lunar skills fill the silver half and increase her magic resistance. Decays at a slow rate. At max on both she will enter “Twilight”, doubling the passive resistances before draining both gauges entirely.
  • (Q) Sol Shield / Lunar Lance: When cast on herself, Eclipse gains a shield that damages all enemies around her (scales with AP). When cast on an enemy, Eclipse strikes the enemy with moonlight, slowing them. (Again, AP)
  • (W) Burning Dawn / Encroaching Dusk: When cast on an ally or herself, heals the target for a small amount and causes a wave of sunlight to emanate from them. When cast on an enemy, the target is damaged and marked for encroaching. Allies/Eclipse gains movement speed when moving toward that target. (AP)
  • (E) Ascension: Passively increases the Sol gauge/Lunar gauge gains from using abilities. When activated, blesses/curses a target. Higher sol will heal an ally or blind an enemy while Higher lunar will grant MS to an ally or silence an enemy. If twilight is active, both effects are dealt to an ally/enemy. (AP)
  • (R) Celestial Spark: Eclipse calls upon her power and deals one of three attacks:
  • (Sol > Lunar) Shining Blast: Releases a solar shockwave around her, stunning all enemies and dealing damage. Depletes the Sol gauge.
  • (Sol < Lunar) Glowing Beam: Fires a lunar blast forward, hitting all enemies in the line of fire and granting vision of them. Depletes the Lunar gauge.
  • (Sol = Luanr/Twilight) Final Equinox: Raises Eclipse high into the air, drawing all nearby enemies around her closer to the center. After three seconds she lands, knocking up enemies near the center while damaging those on the outlying circle.  

Sample Quotes

Upon Selection “Dawn and Dusk. Both have their own light.”

Movement Quotes

  • “I have waited too long for my release.”
  • “Sun and Moon share the same light.”
  • “It feels good to be under their gaze once more.”
  • “Will you attempt to stop me, summoner?”
  • “There is where I shall start our conquest.”

Attack Quotes

  • “They will see their folly.”
  • “Things have grown soft since my imprisonment.”
  • “What hope do they have against sun AND moon?”
  • “Drain the light from their world.”
  • “Your ancestors couldn’t stop me. What hope do you have?”

Taunt

  • “I am ageless. I have ascended. I am a GODDESS. Either bow to me or stand aside, mortal.”
  • “Sun, Moon, it does not matter. When I am finished with you, all you shall see is darkness.”
  • “The fear you feel is natural. The resistance to my vision is not. Now...kneel.”

Joke

  • “The last man who rejected me died thousands of years ago. So...what are YOU doing later?”
  • “Don’t let my nature fool you, I am very generous. I won’t even use the leash, summoner.”
  • “Moon steals the light from the Sun, that’s how you know it’s evil. WHAT? Let’s see YOU come up with a good sun and moon joke.”

Special Interaction List

Leona

  • “How far my bloodline has fallen.”
  • “Come, child, show your predecessor what you have learned.”
  • “Thousands of years and you haven’t advanced at all. How tragic.”
  • “The Solari are worse off than I thought if SHE is the new Radiant Dawn.”
  • “Representing the Sun is useless when the moon covers you, Leona.”

Diana

  • “A child of Davik survived? Intriguing.”
  • “Scorn of the Moon? The Radiant Dusk is now lost to time it seems.”
  • “Your ancestor opposed me, Diana. I had no trouble gutting him.”
  • “You call yourself a heretic? No, child, let me SHOW you a heretic.”
  • “The moon steals the sun’s light. You claim a shared power as your own. Pathetic.”

LORE EVENT- “Age of Eclipse”

Upon Activation

  • Leona- “You cannot be allowed to progress. I will stop your twisted vision.”
  • Diana- “The time is neigh. My vengeance will not be denied any longer.”
  • Eclipse- “How DARE you impede true unity! DIE FOR YOUR SIN!”

Leona vs. Diana

  • Leona Intro Text- Diana’s crimes cannot go unpunished. Justice must be done.
  • Diana Intro Text- Leona is blinded to the Solari corruption. Dusk will fall upon her.
  • Leona Victory Text- Justice has been served. The Solari must now rebuild...
  • Diana Victory Text- The Radiant Dawn is no more. None refute the moon’s power now.

Leona vs. Eclipse

  • Leona Intro Text- Eclipse disguises ambition as tyranny. She must be apprehended.
  • Eclipse Intro Text- Shame has been brought to the Dawn’s bloodline. Leona must pay.
  • Leona Victory Text- The eclipse has passed. Leona has defeated the true heretic!
  • Eclipse Victory Text- Leona has been slain. Only one stands in Eclipse’s path now.

Eclipse vs. Diana

  • Diana Intro Text- She brought about the end of the Lunari. She. Will. PAY.
  • Eclipse Intro Text- A child of Davik lives. Diana must not rebuild the Lunari.
  • Diana Victory Text- An ancient crime has been punished. Lunari ancestors smile upon us.
  • Eclipse Victory Text- The Lunari will never return. Now only the Solari remain...

Victory Quotes

  • Leona- “Let the sun shine bright, for the Solari stand united!”
  • Diana- “The Lunari will not only return: We shall THRIVE!”
  • Eclipse- “You see the error of your ways now. Either forfeit your power or submit to me.”

51 Comments

RiotIronStylus18 votes

Well this is neat..

ModCaptainMårvelous9 votes

I hope that's a good neat and not a "How creative but completely wrong" neat.

RiotIronStylus10 votes

Well, nothing is wrong at the moment :P We still don't have any real resolution nor continuation of that story line. There's no such thing as "wrong", only ideas that could eventually turn into what's "right".

ModCaptainMårvelous6 votes

Any feedback you'd like to submit in addition to that is wholeheartedly appreciated! Trying my best to turn heads at Riot so I can eventually start making stuff for the community -and- have it official!

Also I hear the jackets are like comfy as hell so I must have one.

Calderweiss2 votes

And those Aeron chairs.

Verandure2 votes

No continuation yet? I thought Mount Gargantuan was your Waifu storyline, Stylus! I mean... there's so much that can be done. Cap'n's story works well with overarching themes of the region (and there's other stories that can be pursued with <cough> other <cough> Targon characters.

The problem I have with the story is that the Rakkor are low --LOW-- class, so poverty stricken they have to winnow their children through duels to the death. <cough> Shadow Isles <cough>

The7thKing2 votes

Pantheon are you talking smack about the spartan from rakkor?

Verandure2 votes

Of course not. Every society should have to kill half of each generation due to lack of food -- better if they make the children think it's for some grandiose ideals.

The7thKing2 votes

i think your lying to me err Pantheon

Diana x Me2 votes

I feel as if the lore between our two celestial ladies was kinda forced. I believe many of us enjoy the fact that you give us the opportunity to use our imagination with how champions interacted or their history etc. We have freedom of creativity with your creations. This is one of my favorite things about you guys, you are about the people.

It just feels like with these two, that was kind of taken away from us and left little to the imagination. When I read all the AMA, s about them you basically wrote a book for us. Personally I was a little heart broken in a sense. I felt stripped of my ability to be creative. Continuing with the story arc further deteriorates this freedom and it's not like you guys to do this.

Why the downvote? At least explain what you have against it.

Diana x Me1 votes

I think another problem with the story is how it would end due to Parrots confounded idea -_-. Say Diana does slay Leona and finishes off the Solari somehow. What then? Is she just going to wander for the rest of her life. Lets say she tries making her own cult. Obviously she is going to threaten people to join by force. People will stick around for awhile because they have to. Until she finally dies, because pretty much no one likes a dictator, which is usually why they are overthrown. The cult will disperse and nothing will remain of it. She will have wiped out the Solari and her own cult in the process. Diana will have no one to carry on her legacy and no one to rebuild the Lunari. All the work she has done will be for nothing.

Riotmoltovcarrot9 votes

I dig it. Adds some nice dimension to the Solari / Lunari conflict.

Given how self-righteous both Leona and Diana are, I love the idea of an embarrassment in their history that both sides would rather sweep under the rug.

LVNsNASmurf3 votes

Imo, there's no thematic niche here. You have a armoured tank from Taragon. You have Leona.

I really don't see how this can fit in without treading on leona's toes.

ModCaptainMårvelous2 votes

Fair analysis and a great point.

To take it from my PoV, the concept is sort of a dark Leona in a way while also bearing resemblance (And hopefully not treading too much on the toes of) Diana. The objective is to allow for a common threat that also shows what can happen if either of them had taken a different path.

Still, I'm glad you mentioned this. I'll definitely keep this in consideration.

Athrawes3 votes

Great concept. I especially love the lore and the interactions :D

That said, there are some points that are kinda... stingy (at least for me)

  • First, you seem to emphasize that she has taken a solari sword together with a lunar shield - yet her proposed kit resembles the opposite (sun being used for defensive, moon for offensive)

  • Second, her lore introduces her as selfish (and maybe scheming) - but her kit focuses mostly around helping others and being reliant on them (unless you put crazy ratios on her q and ult she shouldn't be able to to vast amounts of damage)

  • Third, she broke the greatest taboo of the solari and the lunari - but very little happened subsequently (considering it was a taboo). Yeah, she got cool powers and stuff, but she kinda just got locked away without having much of an impact.

Some ideas on how to improve the concept lore-wise:

Maybe the solari and lunari could have lived more or less peacefully together (kinda like the two party system in the US?), but her breaking the taboo somehow caused the lunari to vanish.

Idea: she sacrificed most of the population, but some solari survived (since even during an eclipse you can still see some sunlight, but no moonlight at all). This would comply with most parts of leonas and dianas lore and explain how she got this (near?) immortality - power comes with a price, and it also would make her the TRUE heretic.

One could spin this tale further, her having an affair with dalvik in her youth during which she gets a taste for the powers of the twilight, then scheming on how to get these powers permanently during the next solar eclipse.

In another erspective this might be a bit overdone (and crossing over multiple parts of other league lore), but maybe someone else might get something better out of this ;)

Regarding the kit

For your kit i really like the idea for the passive, but i think there should be more focus on reaching the equilibrium, like her spells gaining something extra (like rumbles danger zone) or making her ult being only available while in equilibrium (like shyvana).

The Q looks okay (if one overlooks the aforementioned offensive/defensive mixup)

The W feels awkward... To me it seems that the heal isn't really needed/doesn't fit thematically and the lunar effect seems underwhelming (though mechanically interesting - like an inverse captain enchantment).

The E is complicated. It will be hard to get the effect you desire (harder than TFs pick a card and the effects are somewhat too diverse. I could see this skill envisioned like zileans E, but in the current form it's too much packed into a single ability. (Also - double heal on W and E?)

The R fits really well - I can see her damaging those in her way and/or control what they are able to do. It really fits the personality described in the lore.

Some ideas from me:

Her lore lets me think of a shapeshifter (lunar form with defense/utility, solar form with offense - if she's in twilight she could get dmg from solar form and utility from lunar form? feels a bit like jayce or elise)

Generally her kit needs to find some kind of playstyle, currently if feels kinda like Sions kit - just some powerful abilities thrown together without cohesion or gameplay patterns.

She doesn't have any mobility, so flash -> ult (twilight version) seems like a good initiation, then maybe a q shield on herself. After that i can't see her contributing much to a teamfight besides a heal (should have a long-ish cd) or maybe a random blind/silence (complex e mechanic).

Against an single enemy this would look even more difficult - Q on self (a bit dmg + shield to protect from retaliation), E on enemy to try and get the right CC on them and then... autoattacks until Q is ready again?

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

Fair points and I'll probably look a bit into redesigning the kit. Like I usually state I focus more on ideas and lore as opposed to making some numerically balanced kit. It's a problem of mine. Though I can shed some light (pardon the pun) on lore stuff:

  • Foremost, she actually doesn't have a sword. Rather, she took the shields of both Radiant Dawn and Dusk. Hence why Diana's sword doesn't have a shield companion. The lore (Which was probably unclear. I wrote this a long time ago, my fault entirely) is that she channeled both energies into the Lunar shield. It split in two, thus she uses two broken halves of the Lunari shield as a weapon (One on each arm, think something similar to brass knuckles but enormous).

  • She is indeed selfish, but her core is that she did this for her people. Yes, she sacrificed the Dusk, but she did it to bring balance. Yes, she screwed over the lunari unknowingly, but she did not intend for that to happen. When a villain is great, they should have some semblance of sympathy which I hoped to invoke here. She is not just about power: She sees her views as right and as the true path to bringing unity to her people; Eclipse's main flaw is that she's terrible at doing so and uses 90% force to get her way. People die? "Acceptable loses. Kill 10, save 100". Still, it's good to know this wasn't apparent and it should be brought to attention.

  • Well there are a few reasons the Solari/Lunari couldn't punish her more harshly. For one thing, it's pretty clear that she could EASILY destroy them if she tried to so fighting her is probably not smart. Along with that, it's likely they just locked her up until they could figure out a suitable punishment...and from there the Solari said "Screw it, let's just get rid of the Lunari".

Part of the trick of Lore is making these little tidbits apparent if you look for them but subtle enough that people would have to ask about them. It's definitely easier when expressing things from various methods (See how Riot handled recent releases like Braum, Vel'koz and Yasuo) so everything I make here would need more and more exposition. I definitely have grand, super cool plans but the champion needs to first be implemented to get to that level.

And again, I'll definitely work on her kit a bit more. My dream is that one day some Rioter sees great potential in a kit/lore and we can duo to work on bringing that concept to the player. Don't want credit, just want something to put on my resume for applying to Riot.

Athrawes1 votes
  • She is indeed selfish, but her core is that she did this for her people. Yes, she sacrificed the Dusk, but she did it to bring balance. Yes, she screwed over the lunari unknowingly, but she did not intend for that to happen. When a villain is great, they should have some semblance of sympathy which I hoped to invoke here. She is not just about power: She sees her views as right and as the true path to bringing unity to her people; Eclipse's main flaw is that she's terrible at doing so and uses 90% force to get her way. People die? "Acceptable loses. Kill 10, save 100". Still, it's good to know this wasn't apparent and it should be brought to attention.

Fair point. But that needs to be made clearer in the lore.

Part of the trick of Lore is making these little tidbits apparent if you look for them but subtle enough that people would have to ask about them.

I disagree on some parts. The personality of the character should be represented a close as possible, whereas their background story doesn't have to. Look at Braum, for example: In the story told by the grandmother one gets to see his personality and how he got his shield, but much is left open regarding where he lived inside of Freljord, or even who the troll child was (some asked if it was Trundle).

In your current draft you go more into the specifics of the Lunari and the Solari than into what makes your character special.

  • Foremost, she actually doesn't have a sword. Rather, she took the shields of both Radiant Dawn and Dusk. Hence why Diana's sword doesn't have a shield companion. The lore (Which was probably unclear. I wrote this a long time ago, my fault entirely) is that she channeled both energies into the Lunar shield. It split in two, thus she uses two broken halves of the Lunari shield as a weapon (One on each arm, think something similar to brass knuckles but enormous).

I think that's really cool - and should be made more visible in her lore (as you said) ^^

Fair points and I'll probably look a bit into redesigning the kit. Like I usually state I focus more on ideas and lore as opposed to making some numerically balanced kit. It's a problem of mine.

It doesn't have to be balanced numerically (at least for now), but it kinda has to fit with the described character and her lore - but also one must be able to play the character using all the skills. Your current kit mostly suffers from the same problem Sion has: Some fun skills, but you can't really work them into something great.

In her current draft Eclipse would be the Queen of Laning - but after that she wouldn't have an great impact on the game. I could see her as niche pick against a heavy poke team, but then again there's already Soraka or even Janna.


EDIT: If I were to try to design a kit for her, my first attempt would probably look something like this:

Passive: Each use of Eclipses skills builds up Twilight power. Each point of Twilight power grants some armor and AP. If the her Twilight power is full, her next skill will be enhanced. (Think of Renekton/Rengar)

Q: Eclipse dahes to a target dealing some damage. If enhanced she grants a shield to herself and the target (if friendly target)

W: Eclipse strengthens her weapons with sunlight and moonlight, dealing bonus damage and slowing enemies hit. If enhanced, grants attack speed and Eclipse heals herself for each hit.

E: Eclipse joins her "shield blades" to form a great shield. All damage taken is reduced by x% (unless it's true damage). If enhanced she deals AoE damage around her, marking her targets. If she is able to trigger at least 3 marks, her shield duration is doubled.

R: A beam of sunlight and moonlight hits Eclipse, dealing damage to and stunning all enemies around her. If enhanced, the damage increases and her movement speed increases.

That said, I'm not totally fine with my proposed E, but her kit should fit her character and is playable. I could see her playing top, jungle or even midlane, building AP/AS for assassination or HP/resists with a bit of AS for tanky initiation.

JackAqua2 votes

Woooow, cooool o_o

Flannel Mannel2 votes

Coolio

The7thKing2 votes

“Don’t let my nature fool you, I am very generous. I won’t even use the leash, summoner.”

O.O how can you get more fourth wall breaking than that?

ModCaptainMårvelous2 votes

Fourth wall breaking is if she refers to you as a player in real life. In the Lore of league, you're a summoner for the Institute of War. As such, completely in-character!

The7thKing1 votes

doesnt make it any less creepy man o.o

Type 02 votes

Sona does it too, and Sona is the furthest thing from creepy.

The7thKing2 votes

sonas THE LAST thing i would consider creepy, that comment on the joke is CREEPY

Remlap12232 votes

Those taunts make my Roger jolly Gangplank . No but in all seriousness, this is some great lore, and we need more events. Keeps things fresh and exciting.

Galleleyus2 votes

i am absolutly in love with this idea, the ult is a neat idea, but in the thick of battle trying to keep the bars for her passive where you want it might be alittle tricky. but i love this idea so much! just the thought of a lore character able to bring down their high and mighty disposition is just beautiful

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

I'm very glad you like it!

vasheenomed2 votes

seems very burden of knowledge for her kit... might want to try simplifying it, let met take a stab at it

passive - balance - sol spells move balance bar to right (fill), lunar spells move balance bar spells to left (empty) at 50 balance, she gains the "balanced" buff for 10 seconds.

her sol spells deal 1% more effect per 5 balance lost, lunar spells deal 1% more per 5 balance gained (I feel there is a better way to say this, but it's basically just turning your concept into one bar, and you deal more of the opposite type of spell of the current state you are in if that makes sense)

(Q) Sol Shield / Lunar Lance: When cast on herself, Eclipse gains a shield that damages all enemies around her (scales with AP). When cast on an enemy, Eclipse strikes the enemy with moonlight, slowing them. (Again, AP) automatically shields but the shield slows nearby allies.

(W) Burning Dawn / Encroaching Dusk: When cast on an ally or herself, heals the target for a small amount and causes a wave of sunlight to emanate from them. When cast on an enemy, the target is damaged and marked for encroaching. Allies/Eclipse gains movement speed when moving toward that target. (AP) when twilight is active, puts an area on the ground that affects all champions on it with the friendly and enemy debuffs.

(E) Ascension: increases armor and magic resist while "balanced" . When activated, blesses/curses a target. Higher balance will heal an ally or blind an enemy while lower balance will grant MS to an ally or silence an enemy. If twilight is active, both effects are dealt to an ally/enemy. (AP)

(R) Twilight: [Can only use ult while "balanced"](<--possibly???): Eclipse enters an enlightened state, increasing damage by 3/6/10% and adding special effects to every ability, lasts 10 seconds and refreshes "balanced" buff

this was just me messing with it a bit... I still think your kit is really over the top complicated, and has no synergy, it's just a bunch of moves stuck together and doesn't feel conceptually or thematically strong, just complicated.... reminds me of lee sin, who I find extremely clunky to play because of how much he has put on his kit... I love everything else, but this kit needs lots of work imo

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

Hey there, I'm very appreciative of the feedback! But from what I've seen with your suggestion, it's a lot like you're not making it less complex, you're just making it complex in a different way. For example, the whole "balance" concept seems to strike me as a "One option will be better almost every time...except when you want to ult. Then you need it halfway filled".

As for the lack of synergy? I highly disagree but I'll explain why: Foremost, the entire concept of Sun vs. Moon is entirely different. Leona's kit is all about starting fightings, helping allies get the kill and making the fight sway in her team's favor. Diana's kit is all about aggression, attacking and sticking to anyone who she deems a threat. In Eclipse's kit, I attempted to (and perhaps failed in) making a kit where there are always two distinct options: A skill to buff allies or a skill to debuff enemies.

If there is one thing I think we can agree on 100%, it's as you suggested in the ultimate and applying an additional effect in the balanced/Eclipse state. That's a great idea and I feel foolish for not including it. However, I do feel that the complexity of the kit would go hand-in-hand with the reward it offers. A kit that requires you to constantly watch a tertiary bar in exchange for a kit that overall has the ability to do more than one who has far less to take notice of.

Oh, and I like your idea of one bar being cut in two halves. I think this probably what I'll use for reference [-----------X===========] Sol being dash, Luna being equal, Equinox being X.

Overall, I really appreciate the feedback. This is how I get better and I am very glad that you like the lore/character. IMO Hitting the right note on character is tougher than hitting the right note on a kit.

vasheenomed1 votes

thought I should mention I made that kit in like 5 minutes XD I just wanted to try my hand at fixing it a little and putting in my own ideas and when I said synergy I think I used the wrong word... it's not that the moves feel like they don't work together.... it's just that they feel like thrown on stats with very little interaction with each other.... some questions I have

are the moves point anc click? if they are skillshots or aoe effects targetting yourself would feel clunky and weird, make sure you remember how other moves work in the game, because the way you have it set up just feels like it would feel really weird to play in the game, I wanted to go more in depth with your kit and change how the moves fundamentally work while still accomplishing the same things, but I don't want to be so pushy lol

and I know it's still really complex :/ like I said I know people get really attached to their character and I didn't want to change too much.... it seemed rude, I just tried to fix some clarity and stuff mostly

as far as making moves work like current in game moves, let me just take an example

(Q) Sol Shield / Lunar Lance: When cast on herself, Eclipse gains a shield that damages all enemies around her (scales with AP). When cast on an enemy, Eclipse strikes the enemy with moonlight, slowing them. (Again, AP)

  1. first of all It is weird to just have 2 completely different abilities in 1 that act completely different, it feels very clunky and not necessarilly hard to use, but less satisfying, and it makes the champion harder to remember for both you and your opponent (remember part of champion balance is how much enemies have to know about the champion)that is what I meant by "synergy"

  2. I understand that you want the feeling of lunar and solar, but you also have to think you want balance in between, so you don't necessarilly need 2 moves. Remember that both diana AND Leona have lots of initiation power... diana focuses on burst and mobility, while leona focuses on starting fights and protecting.... a happy medium for a jungler would be to give eclipse strong initiation power and also strong mobility. But honestly instead of trying to fit 2 themes into one character, find a happy medium between the 2 imo, that's all I'm saying here, also remember leona and diana are both individuals, they don't represent the sun and moon, they are just individual followers, in fact, it might be better to show the calm of the moon and the raging power of the sun, it would make for a new perspective and such

if I reworked this ability, I would make it more consistant in use/appearance/look, and try to go for one theme rather than 2, 2 concepts here though

q- duality - fires power from both the lunari and solari forward, assisting an ally and smiting an enemy it hits. an ally hit gains a shield (no damage since 2 effects) an enemy hit takes damage and is slowed. the bolt can only affect one enemy and one ally and the second hit has the shield/damage reduced by 25%

so in this concept imagine the white moon and yellow sun moving in a double helix (dna) around each other, it's basically like if it hits an enemy, the sun stops and the moon keeps going to the end distance.if it his an ally, the moon stops and the sun keeps going. so it is a very unique mechanic, just something I thought would be cool.

q-duality - fires power from both the lunari and solari, assisting an ally with a shield, or damaging and slowing an enemy, whatever the initial hit is on, you can attempt to shoot from the initial target hit again for the second effect

so this is worded badly, but basically you fire the same skillshot like before. let's say you hit an ally, the moon would give them the shield but the sun would circle them and could be shot again (similar to lulu q when pix is on an ally) to try and hit an enemy, the opposite is also true (hitting an enemy and then an ally), this would be really fun for a jungler and increases your potential range if you can land 2 skillshots.

vasheenomed1 votes

and keep in mind I'm not trying to replace your ideas... I'm trying to show you concepts and stuff you are not doing fully enough imo.... I think you have interesting ideas for moves... but they are still clunky and feel very odd in the game because they work so different from other moves.... bring you ideas in line with moves from the game a little... if you need help I'd be glad to give more ideas... and sorry if I seem pushy XD

Crimson Hatchet2 votes

Sweet man, i love diana's story but its short atm so this would really expand stuff

MXXIV2 votes

Please?

Wezz2 votes

Good to see you writing again, captain.

Colonel J2 votes

Are you and Frosthaven in cahoots?

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

Long time no see J. :P

No, Frost and I really aren't in cahoots. On the community platform chat room I often share my champion concepts as I make them. I don't remember if I asked Frost for help or he offered but either way, it is something I really appreciate him doing.

Quantum Weeb1 votes

I love it, although I would somewhat question if the client or most players could manage 3 bars. Also, it'd be nice to have a weakness in her lore, to make her not just basically the power of two champions combined (at least lore-wise.) Something along the lines of not being as strong with either as long as she uses both, or maybe that since she represents the eclipse that is the only time she can be at her most powerful, while moon and sun worshipers are at their most powerful half of the time. Just a few things to think about, but I really love the concept.

ModCaptainMårvelous2 votes

Doable, long as you replace the sword with another shield. Because YEAH SHIELDS.

RiotRiot Girl1 votes

But.... swords, man, SWORDS too? (i really like weilding swords. yes, it is a very dangerous thing, they tend to be so heavy they topple me)

ModCaptainMårvelous2 votes

If you like swords you'd like the game mode I made for Riot vs. Community, Highlander

Only champions with swords are playable. You can only build sword items.

SWORDZ

trazodone 100mg1 votes

I think it would be nice if (going with the lore) she had the dawn shield and dusk blade. Her sol abilities are more support oriented and her lunar are more offensive. Jus' an idea

Hyrum Graff1 votes

Riven OP.

Nveriyoth1 votes

This is incredibly badass.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

I want to start off by saying that I think Eclipse is * really cool and unique. * I love her lore. I love her interactions with Diana (<3) and Leona (</3). I especially love her sun-moon duality.

In the spirit of that duality, I also need to critique: I don't really feel that her kit reflects that duality. TL;DR Eclipse should be a champ that manifests the sun and the moon, but not at the same time. I'll make my argument for this on a few levels:


###1. Physically

When there's a lunar eclipse, the sun and moon don't combine into something that resembles either - they combine into something completely different. Furthermore, a lunar eclipse only happens -ahem- once in a blue moon.

edit: One other thing: the sun and the moon only stay visible in the skies of the earth (except the poles) for a limited amount of time before the other one comes out; eventually they must set and the other must rise. However, there's almost never a time when both are not visible. Therefore, while Diana and Leona must both have mana, Eclipse doesn't need it.

###2. Thematically

Eclipse thinks that Sun and Moon should combine as one for peace and prosperity, but it's not clear that she's right: she ends up being the cause of her love's death and a war which eventually leads to genocide... and now she's on a mission to... kill more people. The point: as much as Eclipse wants, the sun and the moon don't really mix.

###3. Gameplay (-ally)

The solari are tanky sonnuvab*tches who are all about CC (source: Leona); the lunari are fighter/assassins who jump in to kill people (source: diana). If you give one champ the ability to do both, that champ is going to be in the classic poppy dilemmma: it'll either be overloaded to the point of being unbalanced, or nerfed until it's useless.

###4: Technically

I don't even know if the technology exists to give a champ multiple secondary resources. And even if it did, I'd be more inclined to try to put the skill of the champ into making plays, not balancing their resources. The current implementation has this problem: mana-based champs don't want to spam, but Eclipse wants to spam to get to twilight as often as possible.

###5. Design

In this implementation, it seems like her high point is when she's in twilight. This is a problem, because I don't think a champ's high point should be based around her passive - that's what an ult is for.

##Stay tuned for part 2: suggested changes

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

I like where this is going so far, can't wait to read more.

Hyrum Graff2 votes

Note: I'm not very good at coming up with names for things, so I could totally use your help

Ok, now it's time to do some actual analysis of Diana and Leona's kits. They both have:

  • A shield that deals damage AND is best used offensively
  • A skillshot-related gapcloser
  • AOE CC on a long cooldown
  • Apply a consumable mark to enemy champions
  • An incentive to autoattack

So, on to Eclipse:

Edit: I had to remove quotes from your post because of character limits.

Eclipse is a manaless champion. Instead, her secondary resource is [name?]. Using basic abilities fills the bar at a fast rate (1 skill rotation should either mostly or completely fill it. I haven't decided yet, whether I want each skill to fill it by the same amount, or give some skills a bigger impact than the others. I'm also not sure whether I want to have it decay over time.)

Eclipse has two states, day and night. Each of her abilities gains a bonus effect depending on which state she is in. When she's in day, she gains resistances and maybe damage reduction, at the expense of movespeed (she loses a %); at night she gains MS at the expense of resistances (she loses a % of bonus resistances). When Eclipse's resource is at 100%, it stops decaying (if it did normally), and she enters a state called either Dawn or Dusk (gameplay-wise, they're the same). While she's in Dawn or Dusk, she gains both the resistances and the MS (in lesser quantities). Her next ability consumes 100% of her resource bar and gains both her day and night bonuses.

###New Passive:

Abilities apply a [?]-light mark on enemy champions, which are consumable by her allies' autoattacks. Marks are not consumable by Eclipse in the state that they are applied, but if she changes states she can consume them.

[Sunlight] marks deal damage to the enemy when consumed.

[Moonlight] marks reduce the cooldowns on Eclipse's basic abilities.

When Eclipse is in Dawn/Dusk, her abilities do not apply her passive.

###Q:

Eclipse throws out a skillshot that applies her passive and explodes (small radius) and its end.

Day bonus: Skillshot moves in a straight line; The explosion applies the nocturne ult visual effect for a very short time (but with brightness instead of darkness).

Night bonus: Skillshot is curved (but in a clockwise direction, the mirror of a diana q) Enemies hit are dealt damage (AP), more damage upon explosion.

###W:

Eclipse gains a small shield which damages all enemies around her for a small amount (AP), applying her passive to them.

Day bonus: Eclipse gains a bigger shield per enemy hit. While the shield persists, it radiates light/heat burning enemies around her (think sunfire cape).

Night bonus: Eclipse deals additional damage, divided evenly amongst targets hit (so, you have a choice between marking many targets, or dealing a lot of damage to one target.

###E:

Eclipse dashes to a target. Can only be cast on enemies affected by her passive.

Day bonus: Slows target

Night bonus: Low Damage (AP)

###R:

First cast: Twilight

Eclipse fills her resource bar to 100%, where it remains until she casts R a second time.

Second cast: Final Equinox

Raises Eclipse high into the air, drawing all nearby enemies around her closer to the center. After a few seconds she lands, knocking up enemies near the center while slowing those on the outlying circle.

Enemies take more damage depending on how close to the center they are.


Obviously my goal was to fuse Diana and Leona, but in a way where Eclipse wants to alternate between playstyles - she wants to go during one time of day and apply her passive, then swap over and pop her passive. Note she has several ways to do this:

  1. Go in during the night and assassinate someone before becoming tanky.
  2. Go in during the night and apply her passive to as many as possible, then activate it on everyone for massive cdr.
  3. Go in during the day and apply her passive to everyone, then deal lots of damage during the night.

The best players manage her phases well.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

Thoughts? It's still very much a work in progress.

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

Sorry, I've been kinda busy lately. So mostly, I like some of the proposed changes but dislike others. I definitely agree with the idea that twilight-phase should be something you always strive for. However, I dislike the idea of resourceless champions. This is more of a personal gripe than an actual gripe, but I just don't enjoy the idea of someone able to freely spam.

I do like the idea of Eclipse working on a day/night cycle if League could implement that, but otherwise it's a neat idea. Now some of the skills you suggested are just too much of a copycat of other champions. The proposed passive is just too similar to Leona and (IMO) doesn't really add anything interesting to the game. In fact, a lot of your proposed kit makes her a bit too similar to Leona. Not exactly, but we're talking Lux/Morgana levels of Overlap.

I think one of the key things I'll take from this is the kits don't feel enough of an amalgamation of Solari/Lunari to fit with the theme that the character provides. I do appreciate the feedback immensely and I definitely think some of your ideas are absolutely top-notch.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

In fact, a lot of your proposed kit makes her a bit too similar to Leona.

This was by design; I was hoping that, during the day, she'll feel like a solari, and during the night, she'll feel like a lunari.

I did try to make her kit different enough from Leona and Diana that she'd still feel unique, though. Any particular places that are a problem area for you besides the passive?

the kits don't feel enough of an amalgamation of Solari/Lunari to fit with the theme that the character provides

How is this compatible with being too similar to Leona? I assume the solari tend to be similar.. how would you keep the feel of a Solari without treading on Leo's toes?

I dislike the idea of resourceless champions. I typically agree with you, but I think it's OK on champions who have no HP sustain - eclipse has a shield, but no heal (not even with lifesteal, since she's an AP champ, and her abilities are mostly aoe, which makes spell vamp useless on her). Therefore, even though she has no mana, she won't be able to stay out forever.

Furthermore, she shouldn't just spam her abilities, like many resourceless champs do, because she needs to manage which part of the cycle she's in - if she's in day form, she's not an appreciable damage threat; during the night, she's very squishy (and therefore is easily harassed), so it's not a good idea to hang around in that form for long, either.

I see eclipse as trying to keep it day for as long as possible during laning, then getting a couple abilities off during the night, safely, before moving in to trade. If she trades when the night is almost over, she should win the trade, by deal damage and then becoming tankier. If she tries to trade during the night or day, though, she should lose the trade, either by taking waay too much damage, or by not dealing enough damage. If she wants to go all-in, she should do it at the end of the day, to access all of her damaging abilities during the night.

I think the fact that you can only use a couple abilities during each phase before you swap, should make her gameplay different enough from Diana or Leona that, even though there's a LOT of overlap, she'll feel very different.

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