How to Bring the Best of Team builder to Draft

Hyrum Graff·Dec 7, 2014·20 votes·2,804 views

http://i.imgur.com/pNW8U5a.png

Enter champ select just like normal. Added: there's a drop-down menu for you to choose your lane. Once you lock in, you can't change it any more.

It won't solve champion select conflicts, but it'll solve confusion, without changing how champ select works.

Note: lock in button is currently covered by dropdown. If we were going to actually add this we could find a better spot, but this gets the point across.

######Special thanks to the guys who joined a lobby with me so I could get the screenshot.

edit1: I want to be clear here: this system does NOT go into place when you're entering the queue. You still have to work as a team in champ select to make sure everyone gets roles they're comfortable in. There's literally no functional change from the live system, it's just giving a visual area where you can clearly indicate your lane.

It's the same reason I prefer playing Team Builder over blind for 5 man premades even though they're basically the same thing at that point: it's just easier to figure out what's going on.

#edit2: Why not have people choose their lanes before entering the lobby? This way, people wouldn't have to play roles they're not good at, in draft.

Some people would argue that being competent at more than just one role is an important part of the draft experience. I don't want to ague that; What matters is #This is an uncontroversial change that everybody can get behind.

34 Comments

AquariusGineDec 7, 20145 votes

+1 for this, Im so tired of mirror matches

MrBuffingtonDec 8, 20144 votes

I guess it could help with clarity, but I don't really see this as being too different than just calling a role in chat.

Why not just select a lane/role(s) before you queue up (like TB but without selecting a champion)? That way you're more guaranteed to get the role you want, and you're more guaranteed to get teammates who actually main their role.

EDIT: or just offer the ability to select "fill" or a number of different roles; it'd help speed up queue times. Basic idea is that I don't think you have to be able to play every role at a certain elo for you to be at that elo; flexibility does help, but the game seems to be getting more and more specialized; it helps to have basic understanding of every role, but I don't think a jungler should be required to have diamond level ADC mechanics, or an ADC required to have diamond level jungler map control, for them to be in diamond. It's difficult to spread yourself out that thin; and honestly I think it'll result in more competitive and enjoyable games.

PrinceArchieDec 8, 20141 votes

Yes I think if you want to bring the great ability from Team builder to choose your role and put it in a draft mode then you have players merely select only their role before the queue. That way when they queue up and find a group everyone is in the role they wanted and merely just have to worry about their champion pools for the said roles.

Angry MonsterDec 8, 20141 votes

Why not just select a lane/role(s) before you queue up (like TB but without selecting a champion)? That way you're more guaranteed to get the role you want, and you're more guaranteed to get teammates who actually main their role.

Cause draft is not about getting one role.

HawkerDec 8, 20141 votes

Guess we should get all of the so-called "pros" to switch their roles every match in tournaments then, seeing as apparently the only reason draft exists is to stop you from getting the role you want, and the only thing separating great players from terrible ones is being able to deal with being bored playing roles you're not interested in.

I can play any lane to a reasonable standard, but that doesn't mean I want to be lumped in as a support when I wanted to try mid, or be the jungler when I was really in the mood to ADC. What kind of representation of my personal skill is that? If I have the ability to carry games in one role, but then I'm forced to support what could potentially be a terrible team because draft mode, how does that represent me as a player at all? Why should I be forced to lose LP because some horrendous Ashe player was somehow above me in the pick order?

Skill =/= being able to deal with role changes, we might as well discount ranked 5s altogether if that's the case, seeing as they probably get to play the same role every game.

Angry MonsterDec 8, 20141 votes

stupid argument. The pros are playing in premade 5s. When in solo q they do always get their lanes. Though most people are willing to let people like berj and sneeky have their prefered roles since they are famous.

HawkerDec 9, 20141 votes

Stupid response, so again, why are WE forced to play roles we don't want to, while people like these can spam roles 24/7 because they're "famous"? Why should we even CARE about their tournaments if apparently, according to people like you, being able to consider yourself good at ranked means you have to be happy being stuck playing any role. Why do they get to be considered amazing when all they can actually do well is ADC, while regular players who main ADC get told that they're terrible if they don't try to become the best at every role ever?

You're just spouting stupid excuses to defend a flawed system. People say that you deserve your rank if you can't carry, how the hell can you carry if you're playing a sub-optimal role? When I played my initial 10 ranked games, I was lucky enough to ADC almost every game, and even in the bleakest of situations, I managed to carry us to victory. I lost ONE of my ADC matches out of the 8 or so I played, I ended up in Silver 2, because in one of the remaining two matches, I was stuck jungling while we had the worst Ashe in the history of ever as ADC because they happened to be above me on the pick order. If not for that match I may have even managed to get my gold rewards last season.

If we're going to hold things one way for the 0.001% of the playerbase, then why don't the rest of us get equal treatment, if you manage to form a ranked team you can spam one role all day long, but apparently solo queue means you have to deal with crap and bad luck. It's bad enough when you have disconnects and feeders, at least being able to pick what we're best at, or what we feel like playing, will make ranked feel like less of a gamble and more like a legitimate contest of skill. If you're stuck playing a role you're worse at, against an enemy team that could very well have ended up as all their main roles, how is THAT fair? Either we need Team Builder, or we need to make ranked 5s and the "pro" players switch their roles at random to match up with the solo queue experience, seeing as everyone is so quick to defend how being forced to play every role at any time makes it better.

Angry MonsterDec 9, 20141 votes

learn all the roles. The pros can play at a high level in any lane. People just let them have the roll of their choice since they know they can preform. When sneak, and wild turtle are on teh same team in solo q they, dont throw fits cause they dont have their prefered role. They just adapt, play and move on.

You may believe that you should only have to learn one roll to play ranked. I do not. You should be able to do decently in every lane. While i am not the best mid i can play not to lose and when the enemy makes a mistake i can captalize on it. That is all i need to do.

AttractiveFoxGGDec 14, 20142 votes

I have to say that I personally like this idea. As a player who plays ranked a lot, this really would help with the confusion with "lane calling". Just yesterday I was playing a match where we had a Rengar top lane. He stepped away from his computer for a moment to get a glass of OJ, and another players pick phase was up. Needless to say that player picked a top lane champion(Garen). He kept asking Rengar to change his ignite to smite, but since the player was afk getting juice he did not respond.

So we ended up having a Garen jungle and Rengar top. We lost that match, but that's beside the point. The reason he chose Garen is because the chat had been filled with conversation between the players, and he did not know that the Rengar player had called top. If something, like this idea you have here, where around then maybe the player that picked Garen would have seen the "top lane" pick for the Rengar, and changed his champion before the timer ran out.

So I completely stand behind this idea you have going on here.

-Much Love- Tyrant Peach

hi im jashDec 7, 20141 votes

I feel like when it is your turn to pick a champion, you should pick the role you will be playing, so it is more like draft pick (pick order over call order)

And in a blind pick situation people could lock in a role like you said. This is a pretty good idea!

Hyrum GraffDec 7, 20143 votes

I figured that people would still obey pick order. Like, if we enter a lobby and the last pick immediately puts mid, then the first pick locks in mid, the last pick will just have to change.

I considered what you suggested (not picking lane until its your turn to lock in), but then you don't get the benefit of being able to easily see where people are going during ban phase, for example.

WorgslargDec 7, 20142 votes

If people can only pick one lane w/o changing, and can all pick at once, that is literally blind pick.

Hyrum GraffDec 7, 20141 votes

People pick a lane and can change any time, up until they lock in.

When you 'pick' a lane before it's your turn, it's just functioning as a communication tool.

Angry MonsterDec 8, 20141 votes

If people respected pick order your idea would not be needed.

Hyrum GraffDec 9, 20141 votes

My idea doesn't force people to respect pick order. If first pick locks mid, nothing is stopping last pick from locking mid, too.
People respecting pick order, is not the only problem in Draft. The one I'm aiming to solve is confusion/miscommunication.

SecretAgentHulkDec 7, 20141 votes

Maybe add to that a couple of kicks (which isn't a bad thing necessarily, it just means that wasn't the person you were looking for, or maybe someone requests a kick because they want to try their luck finding a team that lets them play mid, although it would definitely help with obvious trolls) that refresh ala ARAM rerolls?

I like this.

Hyrum GraffDec 7, 20145 votes

I want to be clear here: this system does NOT go into place when you're entering the queue. You still have to work as a team in champ select to make sure everyone gets roles they're comfortable in. There's literally no functional change from the live system, it's just giving a visual area where you can clearly indicate your lane.

It's the same reason I prefer playing Team Builder over blind for 5 man premades even though they're basically the same thing at that point: it's just easier to figure out what's going on.

AbodyHUN666Dec 7, 20141 votes

this looks really good and doesn't look too hard to make it a temporary solution.

Hyrum GraffDec 8, 20142 votes

doesn't look too hard to make it a temporary solution.

That was basically my thought. Since it's not changing the queue process at all, implementing it shouldn't be controversial.

NorthernDruidDec 8, 20141 votes

Well, why can't we have a matchmaking que based on position

Like, teambuilder except you don't select your champion beforehand.

This is a great idea to breed less confusion, especially if you make it mandatory and incorporate it in blind matches as well. It would be a great solution to all the people who don't utter a word during champ select in blind pick.

Hyrum GraffDec 8, 20141 votes

Someone might argue that being competent in multiple roles is arguably part of being good at League.

There's definitely an argument to be had about whether role flexibility is important (after all, the pros don't need to play different roles), but that's something that needs to be debated and a decision that has to be made. Since this is the exact same process, I can't see on what grounds someone would object to implementing it.

PrinceArchieDec 8, 20142 votes

Those that debate a Team builder draft are essentially endorsing being forced into unfamiliar roles, thinking it is what makes draft mode fun and beneficial for those seeking competition. However for the casual player or even a player like myself who just wants to improve in a particular role, being able to pick that role early on saves time and creates a more healthy atmosphere. Less contention and debate in the chat before the match. Also Players seem to think this mode can't be it's own mode under team builder itself. It most definitely can. While it may make Normal draft obsolete, it's an improvement from the normal draft. Once you've feel your prepared in every role sufficiently enough you can do ranked drafts where you are more prepared for that non-preferred role if need be. Since you had the time to adequately work on each role in a normal setting.

Hyrum GraffDec 8, 20141 votes

tbh this isn't really an argument I want to have in this thread. As I edited into the OP, what matters is that this is a change everybody can get behind.

If you want to make a thread about whether Team Builder should be brought to draft or not and link me, I'll happily chime in, there.

Angry MonsterDec 8, 20141 votes

you have team builder as is. You do not need a way to practice a specific role/ champ outside of that.

Angry MonsterDec 8, 20141 votes

Sry but this does not solve people being dicks and saying mid or feed or anything. It does not mean your going to get the role you want. Nor does it keep people for picking roles you want.

This does nothing but have a player in the lobby saying i want X role. This does nothing that the current team builder does at all.

This idea is bad

Hyrum GraffDec 8, 20141 votes

It helps avoid confusion: when a player calls a role but it gets buried in the chat - by creating a dedicated visual space.

This idea is bad

You've said things that, in your opinion, make the idea not good, but that's a different thing from being bad.

I never claimed this would solve all of our problems. It won't. It will help solve ONE problem: confusion in champ select; I see no idea why it shouldn't be implemented.

Angry MonsterDec 8, 20141 votes

it does not solve any in games problems. Adds the ability for even more trolling in game by being assholes and selecting roles already taken.

Hence the IDEA IS VERY BAD.

Hyrum GraffDec 8, 20141 votes

it does not solve any in games problems.

It solves the problem of confusion in champ select.

The simplest example I can think of that it would be useful for is when there's somebody in the lobby who spams the chat. This makes it really hard to work out with the rest of your team, who is going where. Now, it's easy to see where everyone is going, even if someone decides to spam chat.

Adds the ability for even more trolling in game by being assholes and selecting roles already taken.

I'm not sure how this enables people to be assholes any more than they are now. Can you explain for me?

You can already select a role that's been taken/called in chat. This way actually makes it easier to report these trolls, because there's more evidence of what's going on in champ select.

Again, I only think it will help SOME problems, but I see no way it even CAN make things worse, so why not implement the change?

Angry MonsterDec 8, 20141 votes

you cant see how it makes things worse cause it is your idea and you refuse to see that it does not help but cause more problems.

Trolls But riot let me pick this role. (double jungle) I selected the role first

you are giving people the ability to cause problems and harass that is the problem. Draft is pretty easy to work with as it is right now.

People should not be spamming the chat log with shit anyways. Report them if they are. State in end game report pregame spam and was making it impossible to figure out roles.

Hyrum GraffDec 9, 20141 votes

Draft is pretty easy to work with as it is right now.

People should not be spamming the chat log with shit anyways.

I agree that draft isn't in a terrible spot right now. I proposed this solution because I do occasionally have games that, even if nobody is spamming, where people are confused and its difficult to figure out roles (usually when everybody is trying to be the organizer instead of sitting back and letting one person organize).

you cant see how it makes things worse cause it is your idea

That's why I was asking you -.-

you refuse to see that it does not help but cause more problems.

That's a pretty unfair accusation, when you, until the last post, hadn't said any specific ways in which it could promote trolling. That being said, now you have, so let's talk about that.

"But riot let me pick this role. (double jungle)" -Trolls

Now I see where you're coming from. I'm not convinced yet, though, because I think people who are joining a game with the intent to troll, are going to troll regardless.

I think this is kind of like people who say Kalista's ultimate is bad design because of trolls. I think the people who are actually more harmful are Kalistas who are just bad, not trolling. You can't report them to get them banned, but they also mess you up all the time.

Back to this situation, I think the bigger issue could be with people who think, "It's letting me pick jungle, so it must be okay to go jungle even though there's already a jungler." That being said, I'm just not convinced that there are people out there who wouldn't be corrected about this really quickly.

Acidic PuddleDec 8, 20141 votes

What if you want to run a comp that isn't the meta? Why not that???

Hyrum GraffDec 8, 20141 votes

This has nothing to do with meta or not meta.

You get into the champ select lobby exactly the same way you did before: by queueing up for draft pick or ranked. Once you're in champ select, pick and bans work exactly the same way they do now, except that you've got a handy little visual indicator letting people know where you're going.

If you want to do something off-meta, you can use the chat box to ask your allies if they're down, just like you do now. There's nothing stopping you from going duo jungle or triple top. All this is, is a visual indicator letting your allies know what lane you're going to.

LoliOGDec 8, 20141 votes

dude i once gave an idea like dis but no 1 agreed http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/GD/wqTGYrdU-2-ideas-for-draft-and-blind-pick-and-choosing-ward-skins

Hyrum GraffDec 9, 20141 votes

I would guess it's more because:

Your post is all one paragraph, which makes it hard to read.
You posted in GD, which has a completely different culture. I linked this post in the GD chat room earlier and they pretty much ignored me.