Why does EU suck so much??

Chill Vibez·Oct 19, 2016·2 votes·2,117 views

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32 Comments

TheSequelsRBadOct 19, 20167 votes

I don't know, but it is probably the same reason NA sucks so much.

III BAKURYU III Oct 20, 20163 votes

Each year EU and NA take turns being dominate over the other 2013 EU was a better region over NA 2014 NA was a better region over EU 2015 EU was a better region over NA 2016 NA is a better region over EU 2017..... Only time can tell; but I would say EU will be the dominate region.

NA has a larger $ pool to play around with than in EU so players from around the world will choose to come to NA over EU for the most part because of the amount that NA pays for foreign players and NA has a lot of foreign players.
{ I for one am not upset with NA having foreign players because that is what the US has always been about anyways outside of just a video game anyone from a different country is more than welcome in the States.}

Eu doesn't suck, between NA and EU; EU has at least WON a World Championship when the competition which was really between EU vs NA back in season 1. Between EU and NA; EU for the most part shows up to every tournament with the exception of MSI 2016.

Ale non è maleOct 20, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=III BAKURYU III ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=qEFYTqhO,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-10-20T04:00:33.834+0000)

Each year EU and NA take turns being dominate over the other 2013 EU was a better region over NA 2014 NA was a better region over EU 2015 EU was a better region over NA 2016 NA is a better region over EU 2017..... Only time can tell; but I would say EU will be the dominate region.

Turns? What turns

2011 EU was a better region over NA 2012 EU was a better region over NA 2013 EU was a better region over NA 2014 NA was a better region over EU 2015 EU was a better region over NA 2016 EU was a better region over NA (by the smallest margin in every year unless H2K beat SSG, but still)

5 out of 6 doesn't look to me like there have been turns, EU has consistently been better than NA barring S4 (and at this point it seems clear that was EU that had internal problems otherwise could have easily competed). And this year with EU being bad again, and still beating NA (by how much depends on H2k course from now on) it looks like that it is clear that till EU stays healthy they are ahead of NA for some inherent reasons (bigger playerbase, more underwood competition below CS level, more serious soloQ - which is also the queue where ANX player grew and improved on - )

III BAKURYU III Oct 20, 20162 votes

I was only counting the years that the LCS was a standard thing 2013 was the earliest it was created their wasn't much structure back in 2011/2012 that I know off, but EU did dominate those years over NA so I give you that.
2013-EU 2014-NA 2015-EU 2016-NA( I say NA over EU not just from Worlds but from other tournaments as well like MSI) Worlds NA combined was 9-9 in groups while EU was 7-12; H2K did make it out of Groups that's true but in a Group with #1 LPL EDG as well as AHQ and INTZ? While NA's reward for coming in second place at MSI was #2 LPL and #3 LCK teams.

Ale non è maleOct 20, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=III BAKURYU III ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=qEFYTqhO,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2016-10-20T13:50:19.937+0000)

I was only counting the years that the LCS was a standard thing 2013 was the earliest it was created their wasn't much structure back in 2011/2012 that I know off, but EU did dominate those years over NA so I give you that.
2013-EU 2014-NA 2015-EU 2016-NA( I say NA over EU not just from Worlds but from other tournaments as well like MSI) Worlds NA combined was 9-9 in groups while EU was 7-12; H2K did make it out of Groups that's true but in a Group with #1 LPL EDG as well as AHQ and INTZ? While NA's reward for coming in second place at MSI was #2 LPL and #3 LCK teams.

EDG was #1 LPL, though, and H2K beat 2:1 them. TSM was a bit unlucky, but they did not perform really well in the group as even week 1 game vs Splyce was sloppy (and frankly Splyce threw)...TSM only shining moment was the SSG game where SSG had Wraith and not CoreJJ and when SSG threw by failing the p/b and early game, for the rest of the group they didn't seem a super team And CLG got Wildacrd and a terribad EU team, and managed to not advance to KO stage... Advancing only 1 team and not a very strong team that benefitted from being in a mess of a group isn't a very good result, quite honesltly, while EU advanced 1 team as well and at least placed a team in the top 4-5 teams at Worlds (regardless of luck draw and even if the SSG series goes very bad) EU beat NA in S6, by small margin (unless H2k somehow wins or have a close series, which would increase considerably the margin), but win regardless

III BAKURYU III Oct 20, 20162 votes

True-True. Can't argue with facts and results.

DestructoDaveOct 20, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=qEFYTqhO,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2016-10-20T12:54:13.587+0000)

Turns? What turns

2011 EU was a better region over NA 2012 EU was a better region over NA 2013 EU was a better region over NA 2014 NA was a better region over EU 2015 EU was a better region over NA 2016 EU was a better region over NA (by the smallest margin in every year unless H2K beat SSG, but still)

5 out of 6 doesn't look to me like there have been turns, EU has consistently been better than NA barring S4 (and at this point it seems clear that was EU that had internal problems otherwise could have easily competed). And this year with EU being bad again, and still beating NA (by how much depends on H2k course from now on) it looks like that it is clear that till EU stays healthy they are ahead of NA for some inherent reasons (bigger playerbase, more underwood competition below CS level, more serious soloQ - which is also the queue where ANX player grew and improved on - )

I really like now just because H2k lucked out with group draw/semi draw and made it this far, people forget that g2/Splyce went a combined 2-10 in group stages, and automatically label EU the better region this year. Yea, lets just overlook how badly splyce and G2 did.

And I'm tired of hearing about EDG's number 1 seed. G2 was the number one seed and you guys keep calling them bad because of how they performed. EDG, in any other group, would have ran the risk of not making it out. Thats how "good" they were. Put them in any other group, and there is a strong chance they don't even make it out of groups in the first place. So acting like thats a god-tier win, is acting like beating G2 was a god-tier win. And you don't claim that, do you?

H2k's lucky run does not abolish how bad the rest of EU did, going 2-10. Esp. since they are JUST now, facing a good team.

Ale non è maleOct 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I really like now just because H2k lucked out with group draw/semi draw and made it this far, people forget that g2/Splyce went a combined 2-10 in group stages, and automatically label EU the better region this year. Yea, lets just overlook how badly splyce and G2 did.

And I'm tired of hearing about EDG's number 1 seed. G2 was the number one seed and you guys keep calling them bad because of how they performed. EDG, in any other group, would have ran the risk of not making it out. Thats how "good" they were. Put them in any other group, and there is a strong chance they don't even make it out of groups in the first place. So acting like thats a god-tier win, is acting like beating G2 was a god-tier win. And you don't claim that, do you?

H2k's lucky run does not abolish how bad the rest of EU did, going 2-10. Esp. since they are JUST now, facing a good team.

Instead I'm just tired of your fanboyish posts in every discussion on the matter to downplay EU and overrate NA. You are exactly the kind of fanboy that Fire up and escalate for no reason the NA vs EU rivalry rather than having people just cheering for their region and analyzing objectively how the teams play

Here there are the NA feats at these Worlds: CLG - Not advancing in a group with a terrible EU team and a Wildcard C9 - Advance in a group that behind SKT was a complete mess, appearing the worst team going out of Group stage among top 8 (second worst if you want to be generous and want to discard the Wildard that went throughn, even if this would diminish even more CLG performance). It has to be given Credit to them for winning the game that mattered the Most and putting up a decent fight vs SSG even though they were clearly outmatched TSM - Not advancing in a difficult Group, having up and down performance, with a pair of very good games and some very bad games. In the end they weren't unlucky and didn't deserve to get through because they choked when it mattered. Have somewhat of an argument for being top 8 as strength in the tournament (I don't agree because the mental aspect matters, but still), but the team they would have replaced would have probably been C9

Overall NA Feats : Advance 1 team to KO stage, and not even a strong team

EU advanced 1 team to KO stage, and that team is for sure top 5 at Worlds regardless of SSG series result (if they do well and lose they are locked at 4th, if they somehow manage to do the huge upset even higher), with that team got to semi (having admittedly some luck, but that luck doesn't change their spot in the power ranking which is congruent for a semifinal spot)

TL; DR even accounting for the not good performance (or terrible for G2 situation) of the other EU teams, EU feats surpass NA ones at these Worlds, and there is no way you can argue the other way around

KinjishiOct 21, 20161 votes

"EU advanced 1 team to KO stage, and that team is for sure top 5 at Worlds" No, they're not. H2K has not faced a Korean team until Semifinals unlike all the NA teams, which faced Korean teams in groups. H2K has had an easy way through with an EDG that didn't show up in groups and then playing an ANX that handed them whatever picks they needed to win in Quarters. The person being a fanboy here, is you.

"CLG - Not advancing in a group with a terrible EU team and a Wildcard" Also think this is quite funny. Did you think G2 was terrible prior to Worlds? (Worlds was basically a repeat of MSI) or just conveniently after they bombed group stage?

Ale non è maleOct 21, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yasu Yoru,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=qEFYTqhO,comment-id=00070000000100000000,timestamp=2016-10-21T09:47:57.512+0000)

"EU advanced 1 team to KO stage, and that team is for sure top 5 at Worlds" No, they're not.

Ok. Then name 2 teams that have been better than H2K. Because if there aren't 2 teams better they are literaly a top 5 teams (top 3 being Koreans) One can be arguably RNG (ARGUABLY), the other? Give a decent answer or GTFO little salty NA fanboy (P.S. TSM is an invalid answer)

G2 bombed at Worlds. Which, is well, not the point. The point is that the CLG performance is not a good result like people mention when they mention NA record in group stage and include their 3-3 record because they failed to advance despite having a group with an EU team that bombed and a Wildcard. Once G2 bombed, CLG should have gone through. They didn't, they performed bad (better than G2, but still bad)

KinjishiOct 21, 20162 votes

"Then name 2 teams that have been better than H2K. Because if there aren't 2 teams better they are literaly a top 5 teams (top 3 being Koreans)"

Groups was incredibly sloppy and most teams just didn't show up across the board. Without all the teams playing against each other (like in a LCS region), it's kind of hard to determine a top 5/10/etc. It's basically LCK and then everyone else. You can pour your love on H2K all you want, but I don't believe they deserve top 5 when they've had an easy ride to Semifinals.

"G2 bombed at Worlds. Which, is well, not the point. The point is that the CLG performance is not a good result like people mention when they mention NA record in group stage and include their 3-3 record because they failed to advance despite having a group with an EU team that bombed and a Wildcard. Once G2 bombed, CLG should have gone through. They didn't, they performed bad (better than G2, but still bad)"

It really is though. G2 has been to MSI and had an idea of what to expect. They bombed Worlds the same as MSI. It is incredibly poor of them to barely get one win in Groups Week 2, which seemed handed to them. Hope Sven and Mithy move on to a team that they can excel with (which I don't believe is G2). CLG was at MSI, too... but like Worlds last year, still felt like a one trick team (ban Huhi A.Sol and good game). btw, not an NA fanboy... don't really root for NA teams. : ) Root for IWC and LCK teams.

Going 3-3 as a team in groups is respectable (CLG and TSM - 50% win/loss) compared to 1-5 like G2 and Splyce. However, much more is sort of expected from older orgs (but not really, considering how both perform at worlds historically - failed out of groups in 2015, etc.). Splyce... while this was their first International showing, it felt like they didn't show up completely. They should have won 1 or 2 more games. :/

Ale non è maleOct 21, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yasu Yoru,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=qEFYTqhO,comment-id=0007000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-21T20:14:09.421+0000) , it's kind of hard to determine a top 5/10/etc. It's basically LCK and then everyone else.

PLS, cut the crap. Give the 2 names or stop getting yourself embarassed. You can't name two non Koreans team better than H2K, because there haven't been those teams at these Worlds You can try to downplay EU for whatever reason you want, and point at the draw of luck for H2K or whatever, but, bottom line, H2K IS A TOP 5 TEAM AT WORLD, and that is a FACT, and your fanboyish opinion would not change that You'd better try other arguments than a one that is a losing one for you

"G2 bombed at Worlds. Which, is well, not the point. The point is that the CLG performance is not a good result like people mention when they mention NA record in group stage and include their 3-3 record because they failed to advance despite having a group with an EU team that bombed and a Wildcard. Once G2 bombed, CLG should have gone through. They didn't, they performed bad (better than G2, but still bad)"

It really is though.

It is not CLG didn't qualify in a group with a Wildcard and an EU team that bombed. Their performance is not respectable for a Western team, to get beaten from a Wildcard in the final standings of a group stage. It is not more respectable than going 1-5 in a group with SSG, RNG and TSM which are two top 5 teams at Worlds and a team that was supposed to be theirselves among the best in the tournaments before it.

You have 1 team that performed really well and got great results, 1 that performed very bad, and 1 that did decent performance but was placed in a too strong of a group to do anymore for EU. And you have 1 team that performed decent results but was rather mediocre as strength, one team that underperformed some and choked when it mattered even if you can argue they got tough adversaries, and 1 team that had a decent record on paper but failed hard given the chance they got for NA

If this is not clear to you, this is a battle of who did the least worse in the tournament. Both regions have been far from outstanding here H2K did some good for EU even in the general shambles... where is the good for NA that can match up to what H2K achieved for Eu to claim that they did better? I'll give you the answer, there isn't something that can match up for NA here. Not a bigger number of teams advancing, not great performances across the board that didn't translate to results because of a bad luck in draw, not a team that can match up the quality of the best Eu could offer

NA lose, by not a big margin (unless H2K does great in semi), but lose. And not because someone want to downplay NA. But look at NA results from an outside perspective, and you'll get a better picture of what NA achieved...and you can't call that something very good.

KinjishiOct 21, 20161 votes

"PLS, cut the crap. Give the 2 names or stop getting yourself embarassed. You can't name two non Koreans team better than H2K, because there haven't been those teams at these Worlds You can try to downplay EU for whatever reason you want, and point at the draw of luck for H2K or whatever, but, bottom line, H2K IS A TOP 5 TEAM AT WORLD, and that is a FACT, and your fanboyish opinion would not change that"

Your EU fanboy is showing. It doesn't matter what teams are named. You wouldn't listen anyway. lol H2K fan will not be swayed.

Ale non è maleOct 21, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yasu Yoru,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=qEFYTqhO,comment-id=000700000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-21T21:37:40.032+0000)

Your EU fanboy is showing. It doesn't matter what teams are named. You wouldn't listen anyway. lol H2K fan will not be swayed.

LOL, that's really pathetic You are free to give the 2 names, and I yet suggested you 1 which is RNG if you want to give a go, so you only need 1 more to find, and the other people will judge you for being serious or not

But give the 2 names to push H2K out of top 5, or sincerely stop and GTFO. That's not worth anyone time, when you try to trollish argue against evidences

You give the two names, you get the upper hand in the argument; you do not and you look like a fool.

It is up to you to show what you've got, or ot just admit failure

KinjishiOct 22, 20161 votes

Ya, your argument is pathetic as you toss out other people's comments and only listen to your own. : ) Please stop, H2K fanboy.

Ale non è maleOct 22, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yasu Yoru,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=qEFYTqhO,comment-id=00070000000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-22T00:25:47.023+0000)

Ya, your argument is pathetic as you toss out other people's comments and only listen to your own. : ) Please stop, H2K fanboy.

This discussion in a nutshell

Me: "H2K are a top 5 team at Worlds" You: "No, they are not" Me: "Then show me 2 non Koreans teams which were better than them"

.......

You: "Your argument is pathetic and you only listen to your own comment"

And I'd be an H2K fanboy? Really? Ahahahahah Then people are surprised when other region people spam " NA salt" and "NA LUL" -.-"

KinjishiOct 23, 20161 votes

"And I'd be an H2K fanboy? Really? Ahahahahah Then people are surprised when other region people spam " NA salt" and "NA LUL" -.-""

I'm not posting about NA Salt or NA LUL. I tried having a conversation, but you are so steadfast on H2K being number 5 and won't listen to contradictory arguments or that they had an easy ride. As said before, there are teams that didn't show up (such as EDG and RNG). AHQ really needed to play Chawy more, but stubbornly stayed by Westdoor and exited Worlds in groups - that's on them. Now that H2K's easy ride is over, you see the results. You are being biased for H2K, but can't admit it. As I've said before, CLG and TSM didn't show up at groups - and they should have. However, they did better than the other two EU teams there. 6-6 (TSM/CLG) is much better than 2-10 (G2/Splyce). C9 said themselves said they didn't know how they made Quarters (during groups interview), so I had no confidence in them in that series. Too bad the CLG from MSI didn't show up. Not sure where they were. Same for EDG - Clearlove couldn't jungle to save his team at Worlds, but was a beast during LPL Spring and Summer. Worlds has been very weird this year. The only constant has been LCK. Going to enjoy all LCK finals like last Worlds. ^_^ High level league play (like ROX/SKT series in semis) rocks \m/

RaoulOct 19, 20162 votes

Because they have to play against Koreans?

venomous frostOct 19, 20162 votes

E-ssports infrastructure is pretty much non-existent in Europe. Wages are too low, people go to different regions to become a pro, and the ones that stay are below top tier.

America also has this problem, but to a lesser degree than Europe.

Being a pro gamer makes you a celebrity in South Korea, it's accepted and cheered upon.

Pippen The ShortOct 19, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=venomous frost,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=qEFYTqhO,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-10-19T17:42:07.089+0000)

E-ssports infrastructure is pretty much non-existent in Europe. Wages are too low, people go to different regions to become a pro, and the ones that stay are below top tier.

America also has this problem, but to a lesser degree than Europe.

Being a pro gamer makes you a celebrity in South Korea, it's accepted and cheered upon.

For the most part I would agree, but the big difference is the Koreans take it seriously. Whereas in America, nobody really takes it seriously. Just look at team recruitment board, and you got all of those "serious team recruiting" posts, but none of those teams last because nobody actually seriously considers how much effort, time, structure, and dedication to a single system it actually takes to do well at the LCS level. The other part of that I would say is there are too many chiefs and not enough tribesmen. Everybody considers that because they're in the top 2% (roughly 1.2 million players on NA server that are Diamond or higher in SoloQ), they think they're the ones who should be in control. Which this mindset is exactly why Liquid went from a 5-0 start in Season 5, to not qualifying for Season 6. I could go on and on about the professionalism and structure that doesn't exist outside the LCK.

I would also go on to point out that the lack of professionalism and structure is why there isn't a money stream outside of the LCS teams, which that money stream is really only tied to the fan favorites and the teams that succeed.

zrWQMdGHtYOct 19, 20162 votes

If they give some money on E-sports in Europe and the Balcans there will be load of amazing players to rise... The problem is that most amazing players cant play it professional because there's no money for them here... I know amazing LoL players, but they prefer to work in a factor or as chefs, simply because money is a huge need here and they cant make any at all from gaming... Like c'mon in my country pro CSGO tournaments pay like 1000 bucks per member of the team for first place... who would spent months of preparing for that?

HaxProdigyOct 19, 20162 votes

It's simple, we dont "suck" if sucking means already winning worlds and making it to every semifinals every year except S4 then ur perception of sucking is seriously messed up. I wish trashy NA kids would stop crying, and trying to drag EU in the same boat even tho we have accomplished so much more than NA and will continue to do so.

Please stop the salt.

TheSequelsRBadOct 19, 20161 votes

To be honest, the worlds you won was NA vs EU, no koreans yet, so not as big as a accomplishment as it sounds.

HaxProdigyOct 19, 20161 votes

Ok but EU still beat NA tho right? And EU still has been in every single semi's except one right? Remind me how many times NA even went into semi's oh oh yes that's right once in season 1 even tho it was only EU and NA like you clearly indicated.

TheSequelsRBadOct 20, 20161 votes

Not trying to argue that NA doesn't suck. Just pointing out that EU sucks at the very least almost as much, and at most as much.

HaxProdigyOct 20, 20161 votes

Lol salt. Even tho the evidence speaks otherwise. But yer bro I guess.

TheSequelsRBadOct 20, 20161 votes

I am not in the least salty, be a whiny jerk online trying to provoke argument if you wish. As for me, I will cheer for both regions in the hope that one day all of the other regions won't be punching bags for Korea.

But whatever, provoke flame wars about NA vs EU, the most irritating thing in the whole League of Legends community. It doesn't really matter, I don't really think other teams will ever be able to stand up to Korea anyway.

Ale non è maleOct 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

But whatever, provoke flame wars about NA vs EU, the most irritating thing in the whole League of Legends community. It doesn't really matter, I don't really think other teams will ever be able to stand up to Korea anyway.

State that EU has been historically better than NA does not mean automatically provoke flame wars, if the discussion is kept polite from both sides

To say that EU sucks as much as NA (or almost as much) is automatically provoking flame wars because you are speaking conversely of what evidences says and is surely going to draw some angry/trolly/salty responses which start a chain of bad responses from both sides and you seem entirely delusional with your point because you are either downplayig EU feats or are using the "Koreans are going to win regardless so who cares" argument which does nothing to help NA cause in the discussion