Official thread towards banning new champs in Ranked.

Chill Vibez·Apr 22, 2017·90 votes·5,621 views

Hey all,

I've seen this topic all the time, mostly just posts of rage, or it just gets ignored completely ...

however, considering that we have not 1, but 2 new champs right now... What is your opinion?

Should new champs be disabled from Ranked matches?

If so, how long? If not, why not?

My personal opinion is that they should be disabled for at least a week from ranked (maybe even 2 weeks) because ranked is supposed to be a serious game with champs that you've practiced for weeks/months . Nobody 'mains' a new champ no matter what bs story they want to give you. There is a normal queue and a ranked queue for a reason, and I don't think it's too much to ask for a little courtesy in ranked to play champs you are familiar with. Do people win, get fed, and carry with the new champs sometimes? Yea it happens, but the bottom line is that the 10% of people who are actually pretty good with the new champs, the other 90% have no idea what to do in teamfights, what items to build, or what skills to level up... it's actually very noticeable in game. Disabling the new champs for 1-2 weeks in ranked queues isn't that horrible, and by that time you should at least have some idea how to use them.

111 Comments

HethaleanApr 22, 201732 votes

Riot has already spoken on this and it is not something that they are going to do.

Chill VibezApr 22, 201713 votes

[deleted]

HethaleanApr 22, 201732 votes

I'm not being negative. I'm just informing you.

http://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/2017/04/ask-riot-should-new-champs-be-disabled-in-ranked/ for those who couldn't find it. I didn't give an opinion myself because this about the 300th post I've seen about this idea, so I usually just pop in and tell people Riot already has a stance on this very idea.

Chill VibezApr 22, 20176 votes

I see, thanks for the info.

however they say this "No concrete plans at the moment, but it’s something we’ll keep on our radar." ....

so I don't think getting some opinions will hurt anything [slayer-jinx-catface]

HethaleanApr 22, 20171 votes

I think that's more along the lines of other options besides disabling the champion. If I recall, they were talking about making you play some games with the champion first. It could be though.

Personally, I sympathize with seeing people do poorly with a first time champion, but there are a 1000 ways people do bad in my ELO. I guess I don't really mind. There are still 100 champions they can first time, that and AutoFill as well. I've determined to play around it myself. Someone's always going to be behind or be doing bad.

Chill VibezApr 22, 20173 votes

Playing a certain amount of games could be fair, but I wouldn't make it 1 .... maybe like 8-10

AnastaeciaApr 22, 201721 votes

Riot's reasoning is horrible. "We want people who primarily play ranked to enjoy new stuff." SO? Play a couple norms. I think the 9 (or 8 in this case) other people in the ranked game couldn't care less if you want to play a new champ. They even you the word "primarily" which implies said players play other modes. Go play the new champs there.

Here's the actual reason. "We want to sell as many skins as possible for the new champ(s) so play them wherever you want."

HethaleanApr 22, 20178 votes

I personally don't think it's horrible. It makes sense. There are many reasons that having a static X day based disabled in ranked is a very sub optimal choice for an implementation. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

JRobin31Apr 22, 20176 votes

I don't know about you, but what I got out of that link was:

"a week can feel like a long time"

and

"we also have discussed requiring you to play with the champion – even if it’s as little as one game – before you take him or her into ranked."

-Ghostcrawler Design Director, League of Legends

So actually, RIOT is giving this problem serious consideration! Upon further consideration, I agree with RIOT that banning champions from ranked for a set period of time (like a week or w/e) isn't nearly as good of an idea as simply requiring players to play a certain number of games on a champion before being allowed to take them into ranked play whether it's one game or ten games or a fixed number of wins or a certain Champion Mastery Level.

Think about it, if RIOT banned new champions from ranked for a week, nothing is really stopping players from not playing new champions at all during that week and then taking those week old champions first time into ranked as soon as the week expires! At which point, players would go onto the boards and complain again about players first timing their champions in ranked!

One thing you said was a little bit inaccurate so I'm going to nit-pick here: RIOT did not say banning champions from ranked for a week was "not something they are going to do." In fact, RIOT said, "we sympathize with the basic problem" and "it's something we'll keep on our radar."

Tyto MorsApr 23, 20172 votes

if you needed a certain number of games for a champ before taking them into ranked, than i would screwed if the champs i played most got banned or picked. this is because while i do own a lot of them i hardly play 20 of them in norms, and only play like 10(at most, using only three of them right now) in ranked.

besides that, just having a number of games played on a champ doesnt mean your familiar with them, those games could be spread out over weeks, leading someone to still not be familiar with them.

Oakleaf RangerApr 23, 20172 votes

counter point, why do we have rank up accounts or wait until 30 to gain full access to runes and masteries? What if I wanted to start this game new as a baby born immediately into ranked. It sounds like hypocrisy when I'm being told new champs aren't disabled or require at LEAST one game before being able to take it into ranked but having to grind out games to reach 30 to finally be able to play ranked is fine.

JRobin31Apr 23, 20171 votes

Exactly.

It is reasonable to expect players to get some sort of practice and experience before entering ranked. It is unreasonable to expect players to play ranked without any practice or experience.

How much practice and experience is always going to be up for debate.

Oakleaf RangerApr 23, 20171 votes

My main issue is that there isn't a right or wrong answer here and Riot's choice isn't wrong. What I'm pissed off with is that line of reasoning doesn't apply to everything else. That's where I call bullshit.

Tyto MorsApr 25, 20171 votes

the reason why it doesnt apply to accounts in general is because of the base assumption that the person making the new account and starting at level one wouldnt know even how the basics of league in the first place, the exceptions are smurfs of course.

while in this case as well, the base assumption that the person trying out the champ has never played it before(pbe is limited), it can be assumed that most people over level 30 have basic if not advanced game knowledge and are still capable of doing the basic shit on those new champs as they do on others. and further on the point of champion mastery, you can play a champ a multitude of time and still not know what your really suppose to do on the champ besides the general role your playing in(thats why yi does good in bronze, brain dead champ).

and i agree with the runes/summoners/masteries thing, it creates an unfair advantage when pitting newer plays against older ones. masteries should be given immediately if not at least double the progress. runes are even worse since you also have to build up slots but then spend ip on runes to fill those slots, as well as just spending 6300 for a new page since you start with only 2 or 3.

Oakleaf RangerApr 25, 20171 votes

The thing is your basically experimenting by playing a new or never before played champ when you first play them. You have no feel for their last hitting which no guide can fix as now since that can only be learned by actually playing the champ. Your fumbling/adjusting to the new champion can cost you the game against someone who knows how to play their champion. Appling game knowledge in game changes with each champion and their role. None of this being an issue outside of rank games where no one expects anything from you other than basic game knowledge and to a lesser extent mechanics. Finally the knowing that you lost a ranked game because someone on your team decided to first time a champion and feed like crazy in rank is infuriating.

So yes I do think its the same.

JRobin31Apr 25, 20172 votes

Yeah, this is basically it.

The expectation in ranked is that players are there to compete (not practice). Why do we think the community whined so hard about practice mode? So... RIOT gave them practice mode and then players don't use it?

If you practice, play ranked, and still don't know what you are doing, then that's the nature of competition. You lose rank. But if you play rank in order to start learning a new champion, then you aren't participating in the spirit of competition.

Can you imagine you show up to play a competitive football match and then someone subs into the quarterback position first time ever so that he can practice and learn the new role? "First time quarterback guys, please don't flame." Why didn't he do that in practice or scrims? Why is he doing that in a competitive match? Because he wants the best possible learning environment for himself? This is the sort of shit players surrender at 20.

The way things are right now, players use ranked modes to practice new champions. Sometimes they do it on a smurf account to keep from hurting the MMR on their main account. And I think it's fine that players continue to learn their champions in ranked as long as ranked isn't the starting point of that process.

Oakleaf RangerApr 25, 20171 votes

Agreed, You don't have to be a master of X champion but you should have some experience using them before.

Tyto MorsApr 27, 20171 votes

fine, but how would they implement this, because they can't just ban the new champs since the whole experience thing would be applied to the other champs you never played. because it would require riot to actually create a system for switching champs in draft mode.

i still disagree but i cant sway you from your current stance, and the whole qb thing makes no sense since it is a pretty pale comparison and would be far closer to that of trying a new role, like trying out jg for the first time when you only played the lane roles.

JRobin31Apr 28, 20171 votes

Banning for a week is obviously ineffectual. Requiring some number of games or wins or some number of Mastery Points is really all that needs to be done.

My friends seem to think ten games on a new champion is about what is needed before you take the champion to ranked (that's how many they play), but I think that RIOT should do some careful research to figure out the best requirement.

AirKingNeoApr 22, 20174 votes

It's called people in Diamond+ are good at the game to be able to learn Xayah/Rakan in ranked where as their normals matchmaking is garbage.

JRobin31Apr 23, 20171 votes

Yeah... not really that relevant.

For example, players can level their account to 30 by playing custom and bot games only.

So then we can make the argument that players shouldn't play custom or bot games to practice because it isn't comparable to playing against other players.

In other words, the matchmaking is "garbage" argument ultimately fails.

AirKingNeoApr 23, 20172 votes

You know what's not relevent? Your garbage argument.

Tell me, if I play 100 bot games as Riven vs playing 100 normal matchmaking games as Riven vs 100 platnium ranked games as Riven, which do you think will show the greatest growth in the skill of the player?

Obviously the guy playing in Platnium matchmaking. He'll be pitted against people his rank where he'll learn how to play his champion the level he is at. If I play against Silvers in normal games, I'm not facing the higher skill level that forces me to play better. If I play against bots I fucking screw around and get kill after kill in lane.

Seriously, think logically.

Voluug13Apr 23, 20171 votes

Tell me, if I play 100 bot games as Riven vs playing 100 normal matchmaking games as Riven vs 100 platnium ranked games as Riven, which do you think will show the greatest growth in the skill of the player?

This is fucking irrelevant because at least by playing a minimum of games on Riven before jumping so screw people in ranked, you make sure how her kit works. You know, the basics? Plus Riven is old by now but I just had a match with a terrible Rakan that rushed Rabadon's and didnt know his basics. In ranked.

I mean you can tell people to ''think logicaly'' but all I hear is ''let me ignore that I am playing a TEAM GAME with OTHER PEOPLE and I dont want to lower myself to DIRTY NORMALS instead of screwing my teammates over by picking a champion I dont use but I totally am a MAIN for already''.

AirKingNeoApr 23, 20171 votes

It was a hypothetical example of someone who's first 100 games on Riven were ranked. He's platinum, so he clearly isn't so stupid he wouldn't understand lane control, wave control, and how to build.

Also that Rakan rushing Rabadon's? Them being Rakan had nothing to do with it. Could have been a Sona and you still lose.

All I said is that people cannot practice champions at their own skill level in a normal game when a Diamond tier player. You aren't screwing anyone over. Those people are good enough at the game to be able to first time a champion in ranked.

Tyto MorsApr 27, 20171 votes

and definitely dont test out new champs when your play with your low elo(in any regard) friends. you'll have no clue whether or not your doing good or the enemy is just shit

BrytahApr 22, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Well, aren't you a negative Nancy. Regardless if that's true or not, I'd still like to hear the opinions from our fellow league players on the matter.

They said before I believe that the reason they don't do this is for they can get data about the champions and see how they fit. Doing this allows Riot to see how OP, or weak, a champion is. They don't do this in the PBE because the PBE matchmaking system is way too flawed, while doing it in live games with Gold vs. Gold players is more even.

JRobin31Apr 23, 20172 votes

RIOT has pointed out (and it is well-known) that it takes some time for players to adapt well enough to make relevant balance adjustments.

So a pre-rank requirement would actually help RIOT gather higher quality data.

SeekêrApr 22, 20173 votes

That was also the case with the practice tool though.

Change is goooodApr 24, 20171 votes

was gonna say this

WinTheWarOnPantsApr 22, 20172 votes

How the hell does "No concrete plans at the moment, but it’s something we’ll keep on our radar." translate to "it is not something that they are going to do."

wow really broApr 22, 20179 votes

disable them if you really have the urge to play the new champ just go to normals

doiminat0r3600Apr 22, 20177 votes

"Official thread" ~ Someone that doesn't work at Riot.

HyperfocusedApr 24, 20171 votes

true

SlimegoonApr 22, 20177 votes

I played a ranked game today with someone that literally clicked unlock, then queued for ranked as Xayah.

They even told us they had less than 10 games as ADC in general total.

Guess where I stand.

XinCrinApr 22, 20177 votes

What makes this thread "official"? A official thread is a thread started by a Rioter. Not you.

idontgiveabotherApr 22, 20175 votes

It would be nice because yesterday I had a 15 minute game. Our xayah had died EIGHT times in that 15 minutes. The guy had 3 games and claimed he played it on PBE. This was all in a ranked game... so yea it would be nice.

Kayle IntervenedApr 22, 20174 votes

Closed mouths don't get fed, at least give us the 10 bans the LCS had been using then so we can ban them away from our teammates who hover champions they have 0 games played on. Tired of 0-10 Rakan and 1-13 Xayah with less than 5 games on the champion playing in ranked. Lost 4 promo games with those on my teams this week

KarfussApr 22, 20174 votes

Should be deactivated for AT LEAST a week. Give people actual time to practice both with, and against, the champion before throwing them into a competitive pool.

u got this garyApr 22, 20173 votes

I've Never Really Cared Too Much, But Right Now It's Stupid That If Rakan Or Xayah Gets Banned, Sometimes You Have to Deal With People Trolling Or Dodging.

OelykApr 22, 20173 votes

Seen this post maybe 56 times before, always upvoted, and honestly, I don't mean to be rude or anything, but new champs apply to BOTH teams, and hence you are both at equal odds to either get some god or some noob.

I believe that just because they are new, doesn't change the point that some players play older champions for the first time in ranked and sometimes do really really well.

So I guess what I am trying to get at here is that... It's kinda irrelevant to make posts like this because honestly the fact that they are new and in your face makes people biased against them, even if they have minimal effect on the game because the champion doesn't make the player.

Chill VibezApr 22, 20172 votes

Idk man that's like saying if a champ is OP , they shouldn't be nerfed because each team has the same chance to get them on their team. ...or in every ranked game we should put one bronze 5 player in there because both teams have the same chance to get that bronze 5 player..

maybe i'm not saying it like I want to, but pretty much just cause it's a fair chance, doesn't mean that it's not unfun to the people playing.

FaustavianApr 22, 20173 votes

This isn't official...

Chaos Milk TeaApr 23, 20173 votes

Can we not call things "official" and "PSA"? Because they aren't.

Weasel KenseiApr 22, 20172 votes

They should be disabled in ranked for 2 weeks imo.

However, I think 2 days is perfectly fair and no one could dispute a few days for people to play the champ some before literally griefing others with their ignorance hoping they get carried. They probably dont even care if they lose because they "play for fun" but somehow can only have fun in the competitive mode... aka people who cant climb so they make an excuse.

Riot is simply looking at profits over fairness. They know full well that there are people who will buy the champ $$$ and first time them in ranked. If they cant play them in ranked and thats the mode they play they probably wont buy the new champ till they can play them. If the new champ is underwhelming then those people who waited may not buy the champ and Rito may lose the sale.

Any other BS they say about why they dont disable champs is just that, BS! They dont want to lose sales so they dont disable them.

ElikainApr 23, 20172 votes

#Riot has answered this question on their Ask Riot corner:

http://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/2017/04/ask-riot-should-new-champs-be-disabled-in-ranked/

BlazeCloud13Apr 23, 20172 votes

http://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/2017/04/ask-riot-should-new-champs-be-disabled-in-ranked/

Trias000Apr 23, 20172 votes

I don't see an issue with people playing new champs in ranked. They will not know those champs well, but that's their deicision and they know best whether their ability is good enough. And the enemy will not know how to play against those champ either, so it evens out a little bit.

MillForMeApr 23, 20172 votes

I only play ranked and i may play aram when i can't play ranked for personal reasons. That means i only pick my champs in ranked. Making a champ unplayable to me would only stop me from playing them, possibly ever.

Riot won't make money off this new champ through me because i can't play them the way i play league, so I'm not going to buy the skin.

My normal mmr isn't near my ranked mmr, so I'm not getting the same experience out of it.

I'll try to win no matter what, but I'm not expecting to lessen my choices because i didn't dedicate a set number of hours in a game mode i don't have fun playing.

Despite how some of you feel about people who first time play a champ in ranked, it's something that cannot be fairly managed.

Why should i suffer for an unbannable offense to appease your fear of an undetermined outcome If we both desire the same outcome?

VerandureApr 22, 20171 votes

If banned in ranked, I think they should not be bannable in norms.

AirKingNeoApr 22, 20172 votes

Someone could say, "play blind pick then" but then you have autolocking-rolestealing trolls.