Lets Talk about NA when the go to worlds

SKT Uzi Vert·Aug 24, 2015·2 votes·2,477 views

IMO CLG and TSM probs arent going to pass group stage... Why?

Just think about it TSM might get into the same group as SKT AHQ Origin

All of these team would beat TSM no problem. It would be worst if they got a china 3rd seed then Origin IMO

Next CLG have probs never played against a China or Korea team Mid laner from CLG has never been to worlds or played against a foreign mid laner before
CLG are going to be new against these teams

At the end NA arent going to pass group stage

44 Comments

Circuit BearAug 24, 20151 votes

Considering that most the time people say that before every single worlds. I am not really betting on that honestly. In fact, we have record wise done better at every single worlds tournament

Secondly, CLG went to korea last year remember? So yes, they have played against Asian teams in the past year. On top of that. Everything everyone has done for importing teams and rebuilding and going for international practice has never worked.

I think a fresh approach to worlds is good.

Gaxx DAug 24, 20152 votes

Ughhhh? Done better than who? Historically NA is the worst region, ever (I'm excluding wild card teams). The hell are you talkin about? Also CLG going to Korea means shit. They were playing against high school teams, cause top Korean teams didn't want to scrim with them (that's an actual fact).

pacifishstickAug 24, 20151 votes

Unless I'm mistaken I'm pretty sure NA did better than EU at Worlds last year. That isn't saying much, but still. I mean I agree with you that Asian teams seem to be vastly superior to the Western teams, but you never know.

PoisonedTeaAug 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Unless I'm mistaken I'm pretty sure NA did better than EU at Worlds last year. That isn't saying much, but still. I mean I agree with you that Asian teams seem to be vastly superior to the Western teams, but you never know.

NA were better then EU last year. The thing is MSI and after MSI. NA just hasn't looked good. In the spring split the NA scene looked like they were getting stronger.(not prefect, but growing) But the summer split just didn't look good at all. (It almost like their was no progression at all from spring)

pacifishstickAug 24, 20151 votes

I actually think the exact opposite. Spring split in NA looked awful because it was once again C9 and TSM at the top with no other real competition. Once C9 started to falter it wasn't so much the other teams getting better but them under-performing while TSM just put it on cruise control. Impulse only had one strategy - go all in all the time - and it back fired more than it didn't. Liquid was struggling with communication between Piglet and the rest of the team and kept swapping him out with Keith. Meanwhile CLG was just being CLG and choking. Summer Split showed a lot of growth for teams like Gravity, Liquid, and Impulse. Piglet looked like the best ADC in NA for a long time. Gravity stopped being the UoL of NA and managed to start winning without cheesy strats and off-meta picks. Impulse showed that they could temper their aggression when they needed to. Finally, CLG managed to get their shit together after however many years of crashing and burning right before worlds. Over all I still think NA lacks the macro level strategies of the Korean teams and the team fighting mechanics of the Chinese. It just seems to come down to indecision - poor shot-calling has been a plague of NA teams (season 3/4 C9 notwithstanding) for years now.

Gaxx DAug 25, 20151 votes

Let me wake you up in that case. TSM in summer was shit compared to their spring form. They had no plan for the game, they were horrible at gaining and pushing advantages, poor rotations, shittons of mechanical mistakes. Basically all of their games came to "farm until late game and one teamfight decides the game". It's as if I was watching CLG.eu from season 2, which I'm a huge fan of, only that TSM mechanical prowess and teamfighting ability were so much worse. That's why the entire NA LCS was so much closer this split, it wasn't because all the teams improved so much. Gravity? Give me a break. Keane who is a horrible mechanically midlaner had one plan for all of the games - shut the carries of the opposing team, so Altec can deal damage and win the fight. Sure, Altec is a great adc (TOP3 in NA), but Gravity as a team was one trick ponny, running one threat composition - all the time. The fact that NA top laners can't use teleport efficiently made GV look so good. Any top team from KR, CN and EU would destroy them. Impulse would be destroyed in 10 minutes of every single game against Fnatic, Origen (not so much H2K), all of the Chinese and Korean teams. Why? Because they are a skirmishing team (and all of the teams I mentioned are so much better at doing that, with exception of Koo, but their shotcalling is top notch), and all they do is snowball lanes and that's how they win their games. They can't utilize their greatest strength, which is a duo of Impact on top and Rush in the jungle. They'd destroy the entire NA LCS in a top laner meta, if they knew their player strengths, and instead of putting Impact on useless tanks, let him carry. They didn't do it, and that's why they're not going to worlds. And Liquid? This team has absoultely NO shotcalling. They have NO idea what to do when the game gets out of hands. Their biggest strength is decent laners (although some of them need to be on certain champions - namely Fenix), and not too bad objective control, but that's not even close to being enough on the international stage. Just wait and see. CLG actually surprised me yesterday. They played the series of their lives, they were decisive - unlike TSM - and that's why they're the champions now. But they still made tons of mechanical mistakes and their rotations were really poor. Unless they fix it, they won't get far. But still, definitely best team NA has to offer for now.

pacifishstickAug 25, 20151 votes

First of all, wow, such aggression. I thought we were just gonna have a nice chat about NA LCS. Guess I hit a nerve. Secondly if you read my last paragraph you would see that I never implied nor do I believe that any team in NA has a chance of international success. I was merely suggesting that if you look at NA in a bubble (which is what the NA LCS is) that it could be argued that teams like CLG, Impulse, Gravity, and Liquid have all stepped up their game a bit since the Spring Split. I pretty much agree with everything you said about all of the teams I mentioned. That doesn't mean they haven't improved. Just because they still have glaring and exploitable weaknesses doesn't mean they haven' gotten better since the spring, which I think most people would agree they definitely have, even if only a little. I would argue however that such improvement is definitely inflated due to the collapse of C9 and the faltering of TSM in the latter half of the split. I do disagree with you on Gravity, though. In my opinion they started off as a one trick pony (literally, that mid Hecarim though) and have since evolved to be able to pull off more meta comps with greater success. Again, this isn't me saying NA is a top region and can definitely compete with the likes of EU, KR, and CN. Rather, I'm suggesting that when you look strictly at NA from Spring to Summer Split, I'd say most teams improved.

daAtomicSushiAug 25, 20151 votes

NA is gonna be the top region in the near future. Larger diversity of people and players and lots of hidden/undiscovered talents waiting to be picked up.

Gaxx DAug 25, 20152 votes

When it comes to "hidden/undiscovered" talent NA loses from the very start. EU has way more players (I have no clue about China), and Korea and China have more raw talent. And no top players in their prime from Asia will come and play in NA, because they realize, that even if they have more chance of getting into worlds, they have noone here to play against, and their skill will start declining. Bjergsen is the best example of that happening. He was way better when playing in EU, and that's a fact.

pacifishstickAug 25, 20151 votes

Yeah I dunno about that.

Gaxx DAug 25, 20151 votes

I don't see how you found my post aggressive (is it capitalizing some of the words to emphasize something? The fact I said "shit"? Or is it the very first sentence in my post? Are you also the kind of an overly sensitive person that reports people for giving you advices in the game?), but okay. Not the point of my post anyway. I agree, that some of the teams improved a bit, but it's nothing to be amazed about. Remember Gravity's last weeks before playoffs? Or 3:1 in quarterfinals? Yeah, that was them "being able to pull of meta comps". They're literally bottom tier team when it comes to that. Keane is awful, Hauntzer is overrated, and as it turns out Move is hit and miss kind of player. They have one carry in their team, and you can't carry every single game with one player - CLG have tried to do it for years, and they never succeded. Fnatic tried to do it with Rekkles last year, they failed too. Some would argue, that Faker carries his team, but he always had players that could step up and carry on their own (Piglet, Impact, now Marin and Bang sometimes shine, though if most of the talent in Korea didn't leave for LPL, SKT would have problems advancing to worlds - second season in a row). All in all, I find it better to have one strong team representing the region, than 5 mediocre teams competing in a rat race. Spring TSM was way better than any NA team right now. At least they'd have chance of leaving the groups in worlds. Right now I don't see that happening.

pacifishstickAug 25, 20151 votes

Yes, I'm exactly the type of overly sensitive person who reports people for giving me advice in game. Astute observation. Sigh. It's not about whether you find your own post aggressive, it's how others reading it find it. Doesn't matter. I'm not offended, and it's not the point of the post, as you stated.

I agree, that some of the teams improved a bit, but it's nothing to be amazed about.

This is literally what I've been saying the entire time. I can't make it any clearer. I don't see how you're still thinking that I'm not agreeing with you. Although I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on Gravity. I never thought they were particularly good, I just liked the fact that they were getting better. I will say though that Bang has carried SKT on numerous occasions this year. Specifically when they would run pseudo-jugger-Lucian comps back in spring with Faker on Lulu and just have him (Bang) go off.

Gaxx DAug 25, 20151 votes

Well, I'm not arguing with you. We had a conversation about NA teams, and elaborating on your points is a normal thing to do, whether someone agrees or disagrees with you. I just shared my observation, explained why I came to that conclusion and that's it. Even if some of my sentences could've come out as me being agressive, that wasn't my intention.

Circuit BearAug 30, 20151 votes

I'm not really going to bother with a full reply since you seem to just be a giant mess of negativity based on all your posts. But first, better record then they had the previous year obviously meant better then they did the previous year. We actually took games of Korean teams and the season 2 world's only clg won a single game against anyone. Ita called progress.

Second, the post I was commenting on said clg hadn't played internationally, I was correcting that. If you want to throw a tantrum about it, it's your fault. But clg has gone over seas regularly to practice, fact.

That is all. When you get a better attitude I might have a real conversation.

SuperJediNinjaAug 24, 20151 votes

CLG is going to get crushed TSM might stand a slight chance C9 might have some SUPER clutch strats TL will lose quickly

Wonko The SaneAug 24, 20151 votes

Did you watch the finals AT ALL? I don't think NA will stand a chance, but CLG getting caught and TSM standing a slight chance? lol no.

SuperJediNinjaAug 24, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wonko The Sane,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=hpcWLjzg,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-08-24T01:36:42.999+0000)

Did you watch the finals AT ALL? I don't think NA will stand a chance, but CLG getting caught and TSM standing a slight chance? lol no.

It depends on who they are grouped with and TSM is a more experienced team.

GodarenAug 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

CLG is going to get crushed TSM might stand a slight chance C9 might have some SUPER clutch strats TL will lose quickly

why would you think tsm would have a better chance then clg with wild turtle and dyrus? Clg as a whole is way better then tsm and they actually make plays they don't sit around for 40 minutes

SuperJediNinjaAug 28, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Crazy for Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=hpcWLjzg,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2015-08-27T03:20:10.173+0000)

why would you think tsm would have a better chance then clg with wild turtle and dyrus? Clg as a whole is way better then tsm and they actually make plays they don't sit around for 40 minutes

Oh, because TSM is better than CLG...

GodarenAug 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Oh, because TSM is better than CLG...

in what way? they have no gameplan their pick ban is bad and clg has a better top adc and probably jungle at least the way santorim has been playing lately. Haven't seen any evidence that tsm is the better team

SuperJediNinjaAug 28, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Crazy for Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=hpcWLjzg,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2015-08-27T03:20:10.173+0000)

why would you think tsm would have a better chance then clg with wild turtle and dyrus? Clg as a whole is way better then tsm and they actually make plays they don't sit around for 40 minutes

You also haven't watched playoffs at all

GodarenAug 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You also haven't watched playoffs at all

how have i not watched playoffs at all? did you miss the part where clg shit stomped tsm into the ground?

SuperJediNinjaAug 29, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Crazy for Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=hpcWLjzg,comment-id=0001000100010000,timestamp=2015-08-28T19:55:31.168+0000)

how have i not watched playoffs at all? did you miss the part where clg shit stomped tsm into the ground?

"TSM beats CLG before MSG" Oh yeahs thats totally normal. "CLG catches TSM off guard once(Three times if it makes you feel better" " **HOLY SHIT TSM IS HORRIBLE AND COMPLETE TRASH ! ** GOLDEN AGE BOYS I HAD FAITH ALL ALONG! THIS JUST DECIDED THE RIVALRY AND CLG IS PERMANENTLY BETTER THAN TSM

GodarenAug 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

"TSM beats CLG before MSG" Oh yeahs thats totally normal. "CLG catches TSM off guard once(Three times if it makes you feel better" " **HOLY SHIT TSM IS HORRIBLE AND COMPLETE TRASH ! ** GOLDEN AGE BOYS I HAD FAITH ALL ALONG! THIS JUST DECIDED THE RIVALRY AND CLG IS PERMANENTLY BETTER THAN TSM

Tsm hasnt really looked great in a while they played well in the liquid series but they also shouldn't drop games to teams like c9 if they want to have any chance at worlds and i am not a clg fan at all just think tsm is doomed

SuperJediNinjaAug 29, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Crazy for Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=hpcWLjzg,comment-id=000100010001000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-29T02:41:28.550+0000)

Tsm hasnt really looked great in a while they played well in the liquid series but they also shouldn't drop games to teams like c9 if they want to have any chance at worlds and i am not a clg fan at all just think tsm is doomed

ALL NA teams are doomed in worlds...

GodarenAug 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

ALL NA teams are doomed in worlds...

don't think that is really true c9 put up a decent showing last year and clg now is better then they were last year imo mostly cause of top lane

daAtomicSushiAug 24, 20151 votes

[deleted]

SKT Uzi VertAug 24, 20153 votes

Bro do you even watch League of Legends, Koreans are like the best in the **GAME! **

ponkzyAug 25, 20151 votes

i'd say chinese are better

lgd, edg, and qg are all amazing. all three of them could take out skt. koo doesn't look good at all and cj/najin/kt are inconsistent as hell

SKT Uzi VertAug 26, 20151 votes

Lolz the only reason why they are good is because they have the **TOP KOREANS for SSW and SSB **

ponkzyAug 26, 20151 votes

godv is one of the best mids in the world and clearlove is argubly the best jungler in the world. pyl and meiko are also top 3 supports, its not only koreans man

SKT Uzi VertAug 27, 20151 votes

i mean i understand there are some good china players but at the end Koreans are the best in the game IMO

PoisonedTeaAug 24, 20151 votes

Ya I think NA be lucky to pass groups. There is a but here. They can match skill player wise(at least some lanes). I just don't think team wise that can match with world class teams. It is the same old same old at this time.

PyroAmosAug 24, 20153 votes

if your going to worlds, you are in fact a world class team. Even the last place finishers at worlds are still a world class team.

insaiyanbaccaAug 24, 20151 votes

well lets face it an NA team is highly unlikely to win worlds anytime in the near future, i dont even rly watch lcs that much and i know this i mean if clg or tsm somehow wins id be amazed and happy but a korean team is probably going to win tho i could possibly see a chinese team winning

xJLx MCHammerAug 24, 20151 votes

CLG will get CRUSHED. They are cliche in my eyes. Doublelift tilts and his mood changes drastically when he loses games. TSM will get beat too, but I think they will do a bit better

PoisonedTeaAug 24, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=xJLx MCHammer,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=hpcWLjzg,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-08-24T05:54:48.510+0000)

CLG will get CRUSHED. They are cliche in my eyes. Doublelift tilts and his mood changes drastically when he loses games. TSM will get beat too, but I think they will do a bit better

Didn't you hear hotshot. They decided that they would be good so they are good now. If they decide to win worlds they will win worlds now.

Ale non è maleAug 24, 20151 votes

I think it was good for TSM to losing badly here, they will have to look to theirselves in the mirror and can't hide anymore behind the assumption that MSi was just a single bad tournament and in RS they were experimenting while in playoff they can shift gear and still comfortably beat people They will be really dangerous to meet for everyone in pot 2 and could make for a group of death if the other team drawn from pot 2 is strong like an aHQ or the 2nd team from China/Korea

CLG despite the strong showing here will still be the team everyone want to met from pot 1...and i hope they don't get overconfident after this win and now that they probably as strength are a second tier team and aim to give it all in these months to develop something even better for their game to step up to their seeding and go through the group stage

Smart KittyAug 27, 20151 votes

CLG actually played against Korean teams, but it was way back in Season 2 I think. They also had their bootcamp in Korea, but that wasn't on stage so you can debate whether that counts.

BastionKrossAug 29, 20151 votes

NA teams have a distinct lack of innovation. They watch what works well in Korea and China, and for the most part just copy them. The problem with that is that the Koreans and Chinese are inventing the meta picks, so they know how to play against them as a matter of course. NA teams generally don't bring anything to the table the Asian teams haven't seen and beaten before.

EU is a little less guilty of this (UoL keeps them fresh somewhat) but they tend to get a little lazy from time to time and copy as well.

The situation reminds me of a MvC3 tourney I once saw. It was a bunch of high ranking NA players and a couple foreigners. One foreigner used a team including Rocket Raccoon, a fighter at the time considered lower-tier in NA. However, that guy beat the tar out of every opponent with his team, and eventually won the whole thing. When asked about his secret, he said something along the lines of "These guys all play the same fighters, so I learn to counter one player and I end up countering a whole lot of them. But none of them had learned to counter the characters on my team, including Rocket." Because the NA players all became sheep and played with and against similar lineups all the time, they weren't able to handle it when someone broke out of that mold and tried something different. They weren't able to adapt to an opponent that played differently. I see the NA players in this game in a similar way.

S2C2Xd9KOyAug 29, 20151 votes

When I see the thing about NA teams copying KR it makes me even more said about TDK. Bruh, they played Draven in one of their last games and fucked shit up. From what I can remember they just picked what they liked and they were 3-0 with their full roster I think.

SKT Uzi VertAug 29, 20151 votes

yea i feel like they pick more soloq champs then what most teams play like master yi from faker or draven from TDK

S2C2Xd9KOyAug 29, 20151 votes

I think both teams have a chance. Worlds is a while away which means a lot of time for scrims, new patches and practice. I have a lot of faith in Bjerg.

TriGunstaRAug 30, 20151 votes

Don't really care.

Tsm is lack luster. Always have been in the before season, didn't change much during summer play offs vs. CLG. Does Tsm have a chance to win Worlds? Uh... they need a lot of work.

Clg has some what of a chance. Their adaption to other team is very good, and they can adapt very quickly. Which makes them able to deal with foreign teams. Their early game is very good, and if they can use this to their advantage, they can actually win their group stage and Worlds. Clg has a chance to win Worlds.

C9 is looking strong still, and if they can lock in third seed, they have a chance to make it to worlds, and get out of their group stage. TL is in the same boat as C9, but looking at the play offs, C9 is looking stronger than TL. And if anything, TL has a chance to get out of group stage, but it'll be somewhat of a struggle.

Tip, needs to rethink who will play for their mid lane. If they win their match up vs. c9 and lock in their 3rd seed, they need to work on who will be on their team for mid lane. I just don't feel TiP has a chance with Gate in mid lane. Unless he works very hard, and put in his effort and work, it probably won't work.