TSM!!! TSM!!! TSM!!!

TheGrandAlliance·Apr 20, 2015·5 votes·3,273 views

"YES WE CAN AND YES WE WILL!"

-2015 LCS NA Spring Split Champions

...on a more serious note: TSM needs to radically upgrade it's Teamfighting abilities/consistency if it wants to win MSI. Although they can teamfight; the results are not always reliable and because Asian teams have a hyper-aggressive playstyle, they may be caught off guard more then once.

I must say Dyrus did good this time which was surprising alas. Indeed he did get to play League of Legends. GG with Lustboy on support . Not only did C9 ban attempts to target support backfire... it actually gave TSM a composition that worked even better.

Also... why does anyone use anymore? She has been completely a waste of space LCS wise for ages now, and even on the few games her team wins, she has little impact thereof.

All in all: Outside of first game "sloppiness" which seems to follow TSM around, they did dominate the series thereafter. If they can work on some things they are still shy on, and make sure to get their teamfighting in order for countering Asian playstyles, they should have a shot at MSI.

That is... if Fnatic doesn't stop them first

Indeed it is so...

74 Comments

MaliginantApr 20, 20154 votes

I'm really looking forward to seeing Faker Vs. Bjergsen at MSI so that we can finally put to rest the question of who the best mid laner in the world is.

TheGrandAllianceApr 20, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I'm really looking forward to seeing Faker Vs. Bjergsen at MSI so that we can finally put to rest the question of who the best mid laner in the world is.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Very much so... hopefully they will get a chance to meaningfully face off.

MaliginantApr 20, 20152 votes

Is it too much to hope for a Zed v Zed mirror match? Maybe they'll change the rules of the tournament just to allow for it.

junglerboy16Apr 20, 20153 votes

If only xPeke were there, then the three of them could go at it and make it final.

Earl EulrichApr 20, 20152 votes

those two aren´t even close to Pawn. And Faker most likly won´t be there, as GET is the favourite in Korea currently.

MaliginantApr 20, 20151 votes

Actually, SKT stomped GE 2-0 in the latest set of games between the two.

VixanysApr 20, 20152 votes

Except, it was the biggest troll series in Competitive Korean LoL. It didn't affect the standings and either team didn't want to show anything before playoffs.

The Bíg TicketApr 20, 20153 votes

The best players in the NA LCS Spring Finals are from Denmark and Korea....

Gotta give credit to Wildturtle again though, he gets alot of criticism but in my opinion he is by far the best adc in NA, especially in teamfights he always comes out big.

MaliginantApr 20, 20154 votes

I'll admit that Wildturtle did well that series, but I also feel that sneaky wasn't really given the same chance to shine in that series due to the fact that his team was normally behind. So perhaps Wildturtle is the best adc NA, but outside of very even and close games, it's hard to concretely say which of the two is the better adc especially when we consider the number of lane swaps in those four games; Wildturtle never duo laned against sneaky and vice-versa.

The Bíg TicketApr 20, 20153 votes

Wildturtle got a kill on LemonNation 2v2 top in game 2 if I remember correctly.

I think Sneaky is a great adc and probably better in lane than Wildturtle, but when it comes to teamfights you can see that Wildturtle is on a higher level than Sneaky, the positioning, the fast decision making and also his awareness are unrivaled by any AD carry in NA.

NipsahoyApr 20, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Danielas Kitten,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=gmYrqzXW,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-04-20T02:28:55.366+0000)

Wildturtle got a kill on LemonNation 2v2 top in game 2 if I remember correctly.

I think Sneaky is a great adc and probably better in lane than Wildturtle, but when it comes to teamfights you can see that Wildturtle is on a higher level than Sneaky, the positioning, the fast decision making and also his awareness are unrivaled by any AD carry in NA.

lol wut? Sneaky is the best ADC in NA imo. He's the most consistent adc I've seen and has a pretty wide range of champs he can play. Even when C9 does badly Sneaky almost always has performed well.

As much as I like TSM they really are a one trick pony. They need Bjerg to do well and carry or they really are just a mediocre team at best. As much as they try to deny it they know it too. Bjergsen is the only reason TSM is a good team still.

The Bíg TicketApr 20, 20152 votes

"IMO"

You have a C9 icon so in your opinion Sneaky is the best adc in NA. I have a Gambit icon, in my opinion Pinoy is the best adc in EUW.

Wanna discuss rationally or through your fanglasses?

MantarysApr 28, 20151 votes

You think Wildturtle>Piglet?

The Bíg TicketApr 28, 20151 votes

Yes.

VixanysApr 29, 20151 votes

That's just a bit, umm naive?

Wildturtle is a good player and all. Though he constantly makes bad decisions and misplays. Additionally he has never been very good in international play (constantly shut down).

Piglet was a world champion. He may not be on the same level as he was then, but to say that Wildturtle is better than Piglet is wrong.

This is like saying that Bjerg is better than Faker. T.T

TheGrandAllianceApr 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

This is like saying that Bjerg is better than Faker. T.T

Well if SKT can defeat GE then perhaps we will be able to answer the question :)

VixanysApr 29, 20151 votes

I think we can answer that without even seeing a matchup, but we should see the matchup regardless.

TheGrandAllianceApr 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I think we can answer that without even seeing a matchup, but we should see the matchup regardless.

Man I think my forum update indicator is broken... because this thread had a bunch of posts since last login (including yours just now) but yet nothing....

VixanysApr 29, 20151 votes

It only updates if they reply to you specifically. Otherwise it just says "new #" next to the post on the list.

TheGrandAllianceApr 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It only updates if they reply to you specifically. Otherwise it just says "new #" next to the post on the list.

:P

It only does the "new" thing if your logged in (or logged out with cookies on your computer for the site). The only reason I found that this thread had updates from my last one regarding the summoner 11 was when I sorted Esports by "Recent" and noticed it was near the top of the board... which would be impossible given my last posts/updates were a week ago.

....alas no matter this forum nonsense continues...

VixanysApr 29, 20151 votes

Yeah, its always been broke.

TheGrandAllianceApr 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, its always been broke.

Hey Vixanys... do you have friends (on ur LoL friend list)? If so I would like to be your friend:) You seem to be an interesting dude no doubt.

VixanysApr 29, 20151 votes

As soon as I started being more active on the forums everyone and their dog is sending me friend requests.

Send one I might see it when I login next

TheGrandAllianceApr 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

As soon as I started being more active on the forums everyone and their dog is sending me friend requests.

:P

Send one I might see it when I login next

Well you might as well be employee of RIOT... because not only do you post more (and relevant) posts, but you are basically a de-facto moderator of the E-sports sub-forum.

...something of course if LoL wants to ever expand the "recognition of LoL as a Sport" or otherwise concept... would do good to promote. One simply cannot have logical converstions on LCS activtivies with 160 characters or less.

Man I hate Twitter...

VixanysApr 29, 20151 votes

(Link) #LCSBIGPLAYS are the most relevant form of contribution you can get from Twitter.

About the posting more, Riot just needs more community managers, right now I think they have a team of them for all leagueoflegends.com forums. Which if you look, is a lot of forums.

TheGrandAllianceApr 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

(Link) #LCSBIGPLAYS are the most relevant form of contribution you can get from Twitter.

LoL yes so I imagine you agree with my grievance then.

It would be nice if, instead of using Twitter for everything, the Shoutcasters would make their existence known on the forums at least ONCE in a blue moon no doubt...

VixanysApr 29, 20151 votes

I don't hate twitter, I just find that it is a limited means of communication with the community.

It is great for quick access and portability. (If I was to try to do all the posting I do on here from my phone, I'd hate it.)

Forums are a bit more indepth and give you a lot of room for details, which is why most of the forums posts from Rito are to articles they have written up.

I don't think the Shoutcasters spend much time on leagueoflegends.com. They have internal stats they get from whichever department covers that and Reddit. (I for one know that quite a few of our shout caster friends spend a lot of time on /r/leagueoflegends )

TheGrandAllianceApr 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I don't think the Shoutcasters spend much time on leagueoflegends.com. They have internal stats they get from whichever department covers that and Reddit. (I for one know that quite a few of our shout caster friends spend a lot of time on /r/leagueoflegends )

Well what I am looking for is interviews or discussion (perhaps regarding meta, strategies, or otherwise) with people (yes I am looking at you PHREAK) and others via forums. Personally, although REDIIT in theory exists, I am a big believer of using first party over third party interfaces (I don't want to have to have a Twitter; Reddit Account just for LoL) and of course for longer term reasons finding stuff on forums is much easier then other locations.

I would like to be able to have more community relation with LCS players and select Shoutcasters and not always feel like there is some sort of "cavernous wasteland" between "us and them". Granted it isn't as bad as basically any other E-sport game... but I still feel like its a "us vs them" situation nonetheless.

EDIT:

Depending on how much effort RIOT wanted to put into it there is 132890417234321408917234 things you could spend time on with more direct engagement. Even 5 years later this game still doesn't have any realistic "Training" mode or otherwise abiliuty to engage in help with skilled players or RIOTers. You either learn the game at your own pace... or not at all.

I am looking for "community (online) events" that RIOTers (and LCS team more suited to handle) use to "spread the word" if you will and improve the general player environment. I could think of and list an army of such ideas alas... many game companies appear too "risk adverse" to engage in such level of detail. Furthermore they probably don't understand the cost/benefit of doing so.

If a game, such as LoL, exists completely in a short duration setting (vs persistent world such as MMORPG) you cannot just "make the game and leave it" and assume it will always be successful. Granted LoL isn't necessarily on the verge of death MOBA wise... alas it could be far better.

TLDR: RIOT Marketing/Public Relations Department== EPICFAIL

VixanysApr 30, 20151 votes

The problem with this, is that there is no position (from what I know) at Riot, that is staffed enough for this. Also, it is counter-intuitive to how League of Legends has gotten to where it is, word-of-mouth. You play League because someone told you to try it out then you tell others to play because you play.

This is the biggest "marketing" point that League has.

Also, the constant updates, balancing changes (whether they are strictly for Competitive Play or for the average users that is moot).

I can understand that you want to see content about the game on the the site the company has for the community. I understand that, but that would require a staff to do so, right now these forums are gazed at, skimmed, and moderated. You want more than that, but that is where reporters, investigators, and fan-communities. All of which are 3rd party (like most things in sports).

You will never see a reporter directly from the NFL, posting interviews, reviewing games, or anything of the such. You have ESPN, you have Football Communities that hash all of that out.

Same with League, you have OnGamers, Surrender@20 (MOOBEAT) Thoorin, ReignofGaming, Reddit, Insight on Esports (featuring the amazing montecristo on Summoning Insight).

Pros are always doing interviews with people, Go Travis (Gafford).

tl:dr Riot encourages and even provides some of the things you want. Not likely in the quantity you want it, but if you want more, you'll have to look outside of Riot.

TheGrandAllianceApr 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The problem with this, is that there is no position (from what I know) at Riot, that is staffed enough for this. Also, it is counter-intuitive to how League of Legends has gotten to where it is, word-of-mouth. You play League because someone told you to try it out then you tell others to play because you play.

This is the biggest "marketing" point that League has.

Yes... however this own shall be Riot's downfall: The same "word of mouth" also can be used against LoL (as it is now). Lag (for EU), AFKers/Trolls, Bronze Drama, Skill Differential (lack of a proper "on-boarding process" for new players), Champion Balance, Meta Issues (the jungle for example)... all of these and more bring the game back around.

Indeed "popular opinion" did build up LoL from nothing in 2009 age but now 5 years later it is the very same force that will bring it down. I have seen many of my friends of a range of levels from Bronze to Master on both NA/EU leave when they otherwise would have stayed. For LoL to have "staying power" it has to have core momentum that is driven by the game, and not by player imput. Otherwise LoL will simply decay, and "die" with time.

Furthermore, least you forgot, the "word of mouth" approach only got so far. Throughout it's history LoL has been known as "a toxic community". And although at certain points (such as around lauch) this toxicity was tempered this was always a "turn off" for mainstream gamers. The percentage of gamers who MOBA is still rather quite low... even when compared to other online gaming experiences such as MMORPGs.

With funding and vision the LoL game franchise could be far greater then what it is today; ending far beyond the MOBA it is today, alas I don't yet see it happening here yet. Indeed once again another game company, coming so close to a Grand Conquest of the Video Game Industry, only to fall at the very end: This game has at best 1 more season before it completely collapses under it's own weight otherwise.

Least we not forget: RIOT (although owned by a mega Chinese Internet company) is a "One-Game Army" and if it cannot manage it's future it will eventually go bankrupt.

VixanysMay 1, 20151 votes

I don't know what novels you have been reading but Riot is looking to the future, they have clear definitive plans for the future. Just as an example in NA, they are working to strengthen the connection for all games whether east coast or west coast so as to give all areas of NA the same level gameplay (ping, packet speed and quality).

Constant balance changes, texture updates and item development grounds the game in a constantly evolving playstyle that attempts to improve gameplay and the "fun" of the game.

I understand that you have a clear idea of what Riot should do to make the game have its staying power, but that isn't the only route to be sure. I would be surprised if the game didn't have another 5 years in it at least, though most of the appeal will be generated by various leagues of competitive play as it is right now.

Competitive League expands upon the Word of Mouth logic and brings in collectively more and more fans. Content that Riot creates for lore, or events bring in even more interest in the game. Content creators on youtube, ongamers, surrender@20, insight on esports, ogn plus and countless others enforce and feed our need for information, gameplay and discussion.

League of legends is constantly the top game streamed on twitch, rarely is it budged from that pedestal. Personalities drive games to be watched, discussed and trolled. Professional hone their skills while everyone watches. Riot Employees steam for the sheer fun they have playing the game that is their career.

I have to disagree with you in ever facet you have pointed out, league is here to stay and while I may note know Riots every last detail for the future, they are going to keep this game going for a while and they are going to make it kick ass.

TheGrandAllianceMay 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I don't know what novels you have been reading but Riot is looking to the future, they have clear definitive plans for the future. Just as an example in NA, they are working to strengthen the connection for all games whether east coast or west coast so as to give all areas of NA the same level gameplay (ping, packet speed and quality).

Constant balance changes, texture updates and item development grounds the game in a constantly evolving playstyle that attempts to improve gameplay and the "fun" of the game.

League of legends is constantly the top game streamed on twitch, rarely is it budged from that pedestal. Personalities drive games to be watched, discussed and trolled. Professional hone their skills while everyone watches. Riot Employees steam for the sheer fun they have playing the game that is their career.

Lag improvements and minor changes are all "small fish". These are not large scale projects that alter the game in any way. World of Warcraft; for example, does this all time even now, alas it is but a shell of its former glory. Riot has "bigger fish to fry" indeed.

Like... is LoL going to be here 20 years from now? Even you probably would assume it wouldn't last 20 years. Even 10 years you may agree. Just because it may be the "highest viewed on Twich" is like saying your King of an Empty Wasteland that has few competition, and minimal interest. Even if the total viewership (defined as EU/NA; non Asian regions) is 1-3million (which is a generious estimate) it is still a fraction of the overall game industry. Elder Scrolls Online may still have approx. 1 million "users" (log in at least once a month) but yet nobody here is saying how wonderful that game is. Guild Wars 2 most certainly has somewhere near that according to their own statistics but yet the same.

The point is: If LoL is ever going to "become something other then a niche' concept" and broaden its appeal to far greater number of players... the current strategy isn't working. Every once and awhile there are "glimmers of hope" such as with their Original Video ANimations (The New Dawn as example) but without more concrete basis yet nothing.

And lets not forget: There is a whole section of this forum about people item 3070 about the wholesale abandonment of the Game's Lore and continuously broken Riot Promises that "something is just right around the corner" (been saying that for years now).

The conclusion is that; if there is not something "right around the corner", this game will forever be limited to a purely "Player vs Player" audience, which currently industry wide as a MOBA, is very limited in appeal.

The Bíg TicketApr 29, 20151 votes

So who of them performed better in the Spring Split? I am not talking about the past. Piglet at his prime was better than Wildturtle by far (even though Wildturtle did very well at Season 3 worlds aswell in case you forgot) but at the moment Wildturtle performs better.

VixanysApr 30, 20151 votes

You have to watch the games. If we were talking a sheer 1 v 1. I would say Piglet performed better. The only reason Turtles stats are better Spring split was because of the team as a whole. He was less consistent than Piglet, but because of his team his stats prevailed.

So it really comes down to what way you look at the matchup. Also, you have to remember that stability of TSM that could help keep Turtle from tilting and/or the pressure off. That opposed to TL where Piglet and Fenix just came in. Both have communication barriers they are working through, then you have a community flaunting ridiculous shit like #BringKEITHback and calling Piglet shit, on no part of Piglet.

People just had an over-estimation of Piglet coming into a team, with a different language, team style, and overall professional environment as a whole. (You wouldn't believe what Korean professionals deal with and what help they get from their staff. Its crazy!)

The Bíg TicketApr 30, 20151 votes

Piglet did not perform better than Wildturtle during the Spring Split. If you think that you haven't watched his games. He did well in the playoffs but in the regular season he often underperformed. It doesn't matter who is responsible for that (language barriers, community, etc..) cause I am talking about the performance and there is no question that Wildturtle did alot better than Piglet in the Spring split.

VixanysApr 30, 20151 votes

Turtle was carried most of the season. Sacrifices that Bjerg, Lustboy, Santorin or even Dyrus had to make to keep him in the game and relevant. Team Liquid didn't have that cohesion/synergy to provide the same. Which we saw much better after the two weeks he sat out and Keith came back. You could tell they we all playing with more confidence and that they were just more comfortable with each other.

I watch a lot of competitive league and I can tell you in all honesty, no fanboy glasses or beer goggles, that Piglet; throughout the whole split, played better. I say once again for the whole Spring Split, it is what you said (which includes the playoffs) that he played better than Wildturtle. It just took him and the entire TL roster time to get comfortable.

The Bíg TicketApr 30, 20151 votes

Well that is your opinion then, I don't share it but I can respect it.

VixanysApr 20, 20152 votes

Someone wake me up after TSM and Fnatic are crushed by Asians. I don't want to read through forum posts about how either team are the best team in the world.

While I can hope with my NA pride that TSM will win MSI (or even worlds). Realistically, I don't see them making it. NA competition has improved highly since previous years, but GET/SKT/EDG just look too good with the current meta and their mechanic skill levels.

All I can hope for are entertaining games.

TheGrandAllianceApr 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Someone wake me up after TSM and Fnatic are crushed by Asians. I don't want to read through forum posts about how either team are the best team in the world.

LoL yes talk is cheap: Are you willing to put money where your mouth is?

10,000RP says that TSM/FNC make it to MSI Finals.

VixanysApr 23, 20151 votes

Wait, clarify. Both will make it or one or the other will make it to finals? Because if you say TSM v FNC in the finals I'm all over that bet. It's only like $70, but if you are saying one or the other. Than no bet. Way too generic a bet.

So clarify the conditions of the bet and we can proceed from there sir.

TheGrandAllianceApr 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Wait, clarify. Both will make it or one or the other will make it to finals? Because if you say TSM v FNC in the finals I'm all over that bet. It's only like $70, but if you are saying one or the other. Than no bet. Way too generic a bet.

So clarify the conditions of the bet and we can proceed from there sir.

WEll you said "TSM/FNC" will be "crushed by Asians" so alas you claim that no non-Asian team will make finals.

The bet is that a NA/EU team (that is FNC or TSM) will make finals. IF neither team do you win. Else I would win.

If that isn't enough we could raise stakes more I suppose.

VixanysApr 23, 20151 votes

I don't have faith in the brackets. I can see some crazy ass IEM Katowice (TSM Never Facing a Korean) shit going on.

Example something like TSM v AHQ (Quarter) v Fnatic (Semi) v EDG/GET (Final) Which would just piss me the f**k off. No bet.

Censored. Apologize for the language folks...C9 situation is affecting me even though it isn't confirmed.

TheGrandAllianceApr 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I don't have faith in the brackets. I can see some crazy ass IEM Katowice (TSM Never Facing a Korean) shit going on.

Example something like TSM v AHQ (Quarter) v Fnatic (Semi) v EDG/GET (Final) Which would just piss me the f**k off. No bet.

Censored. Apologize for the language folks...C9 situation is affecting me even though it isn't confirmed.

LoL yes the C9 thing.... don't worry about it TSM is just better:) More accurately Dyrus finally did something for once so the "target Dyrus" mission failed. Alas we don't quite know what the brackets will even be.

Perhaps a winner take all bet later on would suffice... remember the First Saturday of May is the "Run for the Roses" Hecarim (Kentucky Derby) :) Me feels like gamblinz... Alas Uncle Ryze would not approve...

VixanysApr 23, 20151 votes

No the "Hai leaving C9" thing.

https://twitter.com/ggCMonteCristo/status/591043843354718208

TheGrandAllianceApr 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

No the Hai leaving C9 thing.

https://twitter.com/ggCMonteCristo/status/591043843354718208

Aaaaa news for me then... I haven't got to watch PTL yet so I probably should.

Yes losing Mid lane is a very bad thing if you have no immediate replacement. To be fair Hai didn't perform preety much at all during the Finals... Sneaky did all of the work.

Alas I would call Hai a quitter... but alas I believe it speaks for itself LoL....

VixanysApr 23, 20151 votes

Also, if he does leave (once again it isn't confirmed) it would likely be because of medical reasons. He has issues with his wrists.

Second, shotcalling is one of the most important things in a competitive team. Which is why Hai, while not being mechanically superior to most Mid Lane talent, still was on the winning team more often than not.

And I would say Balls didn't perform in the Finals. Hai did decent. He didn't play out of his mind but he held his own against one of the biggest lane bullies Mid Lane NA.

TheGrandAllianceApr 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Also, if he does leave (once again it isn't confirmed) it would likely be because of medical reasons. He has issues with his wrists.

Second, shotcalling is one of the most important things in a competitive team. Which is why Hai, while not being mechanically superior to most Mid Lane talent, still was on the winning team more often than not.

Well if for medical reason that is fair then alas.

Indeed shotcalling is important assuming the team can respond to the calls of course. For example Dyrus had issues with this and TSM earlier this season. Elements threw the "Game of the Century" (not entirely so) due to bad calls in their decisive mid-season loss. The Game 1 NA Finals C9 calls were great... but thereafter they did fall apart whereas TSM stayed firm.

{quoted}

The fact that IEM Katowice (against a now confirmed 5/6th place Chinese team) was the first series win that TSM has ever won versus an Asian team is what keeps me from placing my faith in them. I have sent 4+ years hoping to see them grow and while they have, it is nothing compared to the instant domination and constant domination C9 had.

They really brought the NA scene to where it is, which is great, BUT NA is still a few years behind CN/KR.

Name a shotcaller in NA that is better...?

Yes... it is true IEM was a messed up bracket and MSI will be a "real" and more so "officially sanctioned LCS action" to compare alas.

A shotcaller that is better then C9? Berj/whomever is doing it at the time on TSM ? :)

BTW for the record I am (as playing on both EUW/NA at one point) under the logic that EU>NA so I put me Honor in Fnatic, and not Team SoloMid, in the end. I am not persuaded by Dyrus/Top and Lustboy/Support as "having top tier skill". In other words... they are not (by far) the "best" Top/Sup" in position and a team (such as a Korean) could take advantage. And I even watch Lustboy a lot in SoloQ (like that counts) and still not persuaded....

Indeed; NA is behind other regions, but this is because NA has only had like 3-4 competitive teams ever in its history. NA as a result is not as competitive, the skills don't advance as far, and Koreans team therefore have an advantage. In the end it will be which team can play the MSI patch the best who will win... and this could be a team like TSM or perhaps not...

VixanysApr 23, 20151 votes

Indeed shotcalling is important assuming the team can respond to the calls of course. For example Dyrus had issues with this and TSM earlier this season. Elements threw the "Game of the Century" (not entirely so) due to bad calls in their decisive mid-season loss. The Game 1 NA Finals C9 calls were great... but thereafter they did fall apart whereas TSM stayed firm.

This is more desperation and less calls. As you mention the team has to respond to calls, but when a situation gets dire calls will be ignored. Which happens to all team.

Yes... it is true IEM was a messed up bracket and MSI will be a "real" and more so "officially sanctioned LCS action" to compare alas.

A shotcaller that is better then C9? Berj/whomever is doing it at the time on TSM ? :)

MSI will show us just how far TSM/Fnatic have come. I still don't think it is far, but we will see.

About the shotcaller, its easy to shotcall when you are ahead, especially when the lead is from laning. I have yet to see TSM have amazing shotcalling when behind. Whereas Hai was a better shotcaller in all situations. T.T

BTW for the record I am (as playing on both EUW/NA at one point) under the logic that EU>NA so I put me Honor in Fnatic, and not Team SoloMid, in the end. I am not persuaded by Dyrus/Top and Lustboy/Support as "having top tier skill". In other words... they are not (by far) the "best" Top/Sup" in position and a team (such as a Korean) could take advantage. And I even watch Lustboy a lot in SoloQ (like that counts) and still not persuaded.... Well I have no real preference NA or EU. Statistically NA is better than EU right now, but that is all in the stats and is neither here nor there. My problem with Fnatic is Shut down Reignover/Huni. Shut down Fnatic and even moreso, shut down one or the other and you still have a huge advantage to winning. Steelback isn't a carrier. He should come to games in a janitors outfit.