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RIOT Has Nothing to Worry About Blizzard's "Heroes of the Storm"...

TheGrandAlliance··21 votes·11,738 views

...because it is /EPICFAIL from the start and not going anywhere. Not only does it fail to execute new MOBA concepts as intended by Blizzard: It takes all the bad stuff that people QQ about in LOL and magnifies them 1000x. Want to escape ELO Hell? GL with Team Experience. Got AFK? GL going 4v5 with 1/5 of EXP going into a Black Hole. Strategic Diversity/Counterplay? Does that even exist in HOTS?.

Once you spent some time playing HOTS you will quickly remember Why you Appreciate LoL.

EDIT: HoTS Launched Today (June 2, 2015): Are we all still here? Yes good carry on then...

The following is a summary of exactly WTF I am talking about:

1 PVE Objective "FTW":

People who complain about there being "Too much PvE in their PvP Game" where it be LoL or otherwise... will have it magnified 1000x fold if not more for HOTS.

HOTS is almost entirely a PvE game with PvP mixed in. The objectives, which vary by map, not only provide for a confusing strategy but one that requires heavy focus on the PvE map/micro objectives. In LoL for example; there only a handful of PvE objectives (outside of the "Jungler role"), they are clearly identifiable (BN/Dragon), and generally only have "OP" or otherwise significant consequence late game (as to prevent games from going on forever especially LCS ones).

Whereas in HOTS you have to constantly manage various PvE objectives the entire game. Not to mention the Minions are far more OP even at higher levels (they cannot simply be wave cleared easily). IN HOTS the goal is simply to kite the enemy around long enough while you cap enough PvE objectives in order to unlock a mapwide OP status ("Legendary Objective") and win: You don't have to be the best PvP team or even be able to beat your enemy in the field. Nor does getting "ACE'd" in LoL terms even have significant consequence especially if you pushed the PvE objectives. The structures in HOTS have massive health and some with shields, that even at full power, take time (such as the Nexus) to knock down.

2 "Team Experience":

If you thought "ELO HELL" or AFKers were bad for "Player Experience" in LoL: Just wait until you play HOTS.

Sounds like a good idea right? Wrong again. It basically takes away power from skilled players and dumps it to everyone else. Thus if you are trying to carry your team: Your efforts will likely be wasted because you won't ever be able to get massively OP vs the enemy. If your team feeds like no tomorrow your efforts won't overcome this. In addition: Given the average effect of this will result in neither team will get very far ahead of the other in most matches thus rewarding passive gameplay.

Not to mention AFKers: IF you though AFK was bad in LoL just wait until 1/5 of your teams EXP is dumped into an offline player. Now you will be behind in levels AND in Power. *Not to mention that if you DC an AI bot takes control of your character until you return: Reclogging into the game takes far longer then LoL * And of course this bot spends your talents for you... thus if you do return you left with a messed up strategy.

Given that this game is PvE focused: The Team EXP also just rewards who can outfarm the PvE objectives faster because the reward for killing players is not worth the effort. Why go in a teamfight and come out with losses when you can just run around the map, quickly fighting the scores of PvE targets? It is like if LoL's jungle became the primary EXP source for a team.

Also, another overlooked consideration is counterplay to skilled players. Because you can no longer "target" a player who is getting ahead to shut him down, higher skilled players can easily just go in, burst their way to glory, die, and still result in winning a battle and level race even if they die. And they will still get the follow up EXP from the hordes of PvE objectives the remaining team gets out of the effort thus just making them more OP. If your in a match with vs a high MMR (or hidden one) they will just dominate a match even more.

3 "Talents":

If you wanted an alternative game to LoL that rewarded strategic knowledge about the game: HOTS just gives you a "dumbed-down casual" version of a MOBA that doesn't reward intelligent gameplay.

HOTS has no items. Which means you are locked into the playstyle that Blizzard wants for you for that particular champion. Also without any items in this game (or in-match gold to use to buy with) there isn't any statistics buidup, nor true counterplay. Although there are various talents for each champions: IN most cases there is only one proper build for any situation +few optional components (such as which ultimate to unlock) that is more about player preference then any possible counterplay.

VS tanky team and want Armor Pen? Nope, you cannot have that. Want "strategic diversity" items such as item 3056 or build defensive items such as item 3140 item 3157 to counter certain enemy skills? No again. Some HOTS fanboys may try to argue that there is "counterplay" with the talents... alas if you actually do your research you will find this to be a false case. Furthermore, since talents appear to be "locked" in or otherwise unchangeable I fail to see how anything can be countered either.

4 "Gold Grinder/Pay-to-Win":

Unless you have "no-life" and can play forever: You are going to be Griefed into Grinding forever simply to unlock (a single) champion not to mention enough to be competitive or otherwise have a full understanding of gameplay.

Currently as it stands you either have to grind like crazy at from the start of the game in order to get gold just to buy your first champion, or pay real currency (which you can now even in a beta) in order to advance. As you may know in LoL if you are new player you have a set of 10 (such as Ashe Lux Katarina ) that are permantally unlocked until you start to level up/buy champions. Then you get dumped into the set of rotating weekly champions.

Currently in HOTS: You can only play what is free that week. BTW did I mention you have to level up characters in addition to your own levels before you can use all their talent upgrades? That means that unless you spend lots of time in a 1-week period to unlock as many as you can (which probably will be 1-2 at most) you will be forced to play new champions every time you login for awhile. For New players to the MOBA game especially this just makes an unfamiliar playstyle become even more hard: RIOT refers to this concept as "On-Boarding".

The game makes you Asian-grind level just to unlock a single champion... and good luck if you want to unlock just one for each role as well. Unlike RIOT which make its profit and price points around the skins which are purely optional: HOTS basically /grief your way into giving up and paying for things with USD that you may not even want in the end.

5 "Map Matchmaking ???":

Imagine LoL whereas when you queried for a mode you wouldn't know whether you are going to be playing Summoner's Rift, Crystal Scar, Howling, Twisted. Welcome to HOTS.

Although one could claim that most of the maps have same underlying concepts... in reality they are completely different from one each other, requiring different use of the overwhelming PvE mechanics; of course some champions are better suited for some types then others, and lastly I fail to understand how competitive PvP could even operate with this concept. Not to mention at moment... there is no "custom game lobby", nor spectator mode, so your basically on your own for now (not including the spam-filled "general channel" (WoW's /1)).

6 "E-Sports Potential":

Blizzard has continuously failed to make headway into E-Sports... and HOTS is not going to save them this time.

For the various reasons above, and simply given its undefined state as is, it is unlikely that skilled professional teams will even waste time with HOTS. Of course... all of the "LCS Washouts" who fail to qualify for LCS or otherwise no chance with Worlds will find something else to "Fail Their Way Up". Alas good luck getting anyone worth watching to play HOTS.

That of course... won't stop Blizzard with its Horde of $$$ to promote it as long as they want in Blizcon and otherwise. Just because you hold lots of random tournaments doesn't make your game a "E-Sport" worth watching. Nor does it create the very dedicated (and mostly so "watchable") staff, shoutcasters, stages, and production value, to enjoy the game.

7 "Lore":

.................................................

Lastly; for anyone here who still cares about LORE of course (the few, the proud) the suggestion that historical Blizzard characters are just randomly thrown into another "Nexus" universe requires that all preexisting lore of Blizzard games to be broken. Of course "nobody cares about lore anymore" so why should you care? Well with that attitude: Why aren't you playing DOTA?

These issues as presented demonstrate core issues with HOTS that cannot be undone in any due time, are effectively exclusive to HOTS, and will prevent HOTS from ever being any significant rival to LoL. And because we all know nobody in video game industry has bigger EGO then Blizzard (just go to a Blizcon plz and watch them talk) settling for "second-best" is automatically a /EPICFAIL for them.

If you spent time in HOTS: You will quickly remember why LoL is such a good game, even with all its issues and otherwise. At least there is an army of RIOTERs trying (minus RIOT's "Fearless" of course:) ) to make the game as best at can be... free from excessive egotism and generally (alas not always of course (I am looking at youLeeSin)) skilled at provided a balanced, logical, fun; and for E-sports mostly importantly, watchable game.

Alas... for all the trashy threads in here item 3070 item 3070 about "balance" or otherwise in LoL: Be grateful you're not mixed up with the /EPICFAIL game Heroes of the Storm.

Indeed it is so...

92 Comments

Alljoy6 votes

I remember when people used to call League, DotA for Dummies.

But no fear, now that there's HotS to carry that mantle.

Raptamei4 votes

{quoted}

I remember when people used to call League, DotA for Dummies.

But no fear, now that there's HotS to carry that mantle.

And Dota was Warcraft for dummies...

Laughing Fish1 votes

People now say Smite is League for dummies.

Alljoy1 votes

The Internet is Real Life for dummies.

Sarutobi4 votes

You do realize the game is in Beta. of course there is going to be a lot of stuff that doesnt work for the game, and thats why they are doing it in Beta. see how to improve from it. dont really see why you needed to write something like this. things have and are going to continue to change for the game, hence why its still in Beta. if the game was already released or had been released for some time your complaint would be warranted but changes like this happens all the time in Beta!

TheGrandAlliance15 votes

{quoted}

You do realize the game is in Beta. of course there is going to be a lot of stuff that doesnt work for the game, and thats why they are doing it in Beta.

So the "Its only a beta" argument doesn't hold any water if you actually understand WTF a "Beta" actually is. A game Beta process isn't designed to make wide-sweeping changes to a software product: It is designed to test pre-existing systems for bugs/stability for a final release and to add any last art/sounds to the game. The "alpha" phase was the time to do experimental testing "and stuff" as to wide sweeping changes.

Furthermore, the problem with this your logic is that these issues are "meta" issues not ones such as "champion balance" (which I intentionally left out). These are "Strategic Decisions" that were made by Blizzard and cannot be changes without completely re-doing the entire game (-art).

Things such as "Team Experience" cannot be replaced overnight. Nor can you just suddenly decide to add a whole item store/gold source in order to add items into the game. Some smaller issues such as the "onboarding process" could yes in theory be changed... however as indicated by Blizzard posts in the past many of these things are unlikely to change unless there is player backlash or once they figure it out of course.

The problem with HOTS that it is "dead on arrival" and not that "it simply can be beta'ed its way out". The "This is only a Beta" concept can be further demonstrated with the MMORPG "Elder Scrolls Online": No amount of "beta" could fix the core problems of that game.

Sarutobi1 votes

but the problems you are addressing could easily be worked on because its in beta. you make it seem like this is going to be the final product! either way it doesnt matter. you clearly already had an biased opinion about the game. the people who enjoy it will still play it just the same as you here. so again whats the problem? you make it seem like this game is only going to cater to you!

The only reason why ESO was a failure was because of the all Skyrim players thinking it was going to be that just online when it was never going to be that in the first place. While it was a failure it at least lived up to what it is now and right when it comes out to consoles i can bet a whole bunch of players will start to play it since that is what most people wanted any way!

Alljoy10 votes

easily be worked on because its in beta

Reworking core gameplay design values in beta is like burning your house down after you've built it.

ForPortal4 votes

{quoted}

The only reason why ESO was a failure was because of the all Skyrim players thinking it was going to be that just online when it was never going to be that in the first place.

No, we knew it was never going to be Elder Scrolls, but Online. The bloody moron they had in charge of the project made that quite clear. The reason it failed is because it's flat out stupid to make an Elder Scrolls game if you're not going to include the parts of an Elder Scrolls game that people actually like.

Potential customers have no obligation to support your company. If you don't want to make the game they want to play, it's your own damn fault if they don't buy it.

Arcade Andrew4 votes

Blizzard is a terrible company IMO I'm the kind of guy who though runescape (before the combat update) was better than WoW

and as far as im concerned Wow has lost its glory, I never hear about Wow or see WoW mentioned unless its a commercial on TV but I hear tons about RS ( I personally dont like RS since the combat update , that ruined the game for me tbh)

also runescape was free to play with the option to pay for extra features, to access WoW? YOU HAD TO PAY. so I bet HOTS is p2p not f2p like league

TheGrandAlliance2 votes

{quoted}

Blizzard is a terrible company IMO I'm the kind of guy who though runescape (before the combat update) was better than WoW

and as far as im concerned Wow has lost its glory, I never hear about Wow or see WoW mentioned unless its a commercial on TV but I hear tons about RS ( I personally dont like RS since the combat update , that ruined the game for me tbh)

also runescape was free to play with the option to pay for extra features, to access WoW? YOU HAD TO PAY. so I bet HOTS is p2p not f2p like league

Technically HOTS is a F2P game because you can install it and play it without paying anything. However as it is currently structured in beta (which in theory is it's attempted business model) they make it so hard to get the in-game currency gold (or LoL's IP ==) that unless you are willing to put in tons of time into the game you will always be far behind someone who pays money. In other words: The prices to buy champions with gold and the effort to farm that gold is far greater then effort to farm IP in LoL.

Not to mention once you "unlocked" a character (or used it via weekly F2p sales) you have to spend countless ages again leveling it up again to unlock everything... however to be fair you only have to level it up someway to unlock all gameplay-related aspects.

bad arcade kitty2 votes

too long to read i agree that hots is crap but i should note that these your points seem to negate each other

"Team Experience": Sounds like a good idea right? Wrong again. It basically takes away power from skilled players and dumps it to everyone else.

....

Also, another overlooked consideration is counterplay to skilled players. Because you can no longer "target" a player who is getting ahead to shut him down, higher skilled players can easily just go in, burst their way to glory, die, and still result in winning a battle and level race even if they die.

TheGrandAlliance3 votes

[{quoted}](name=bad arcade kitty,realm=EUW,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=oKJPZ6Am,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-03-26T02:58:17.129+0000)

too long to read i agree that hots is crap but i should note that these your points seem to negate each other

....

I will try to clarify my wall of text (which was designed to be comprehensive so I do apologize:

In LoL... if 1/5 players is skilled more so then others (and thusly getting "fed") you could just target him first in all TF then focus the rest of the team and eventually (because he dies all the time) he will fall behind and (maybe) not be a threat anymore.

In HOTS: Single Player Targeting doesn't work as a strategy. Even if you kill him like there is no tomorrow he can still get more powerful while being dead the whole time because the rest of the team can "farm EXP for him". Therefore he won't ever fall behind and will continue to dominate.

bad arcade kitty2 votes

{quoted}

I will try to clarify my wall of text (which was designed to be comprehensive so I do apologize:

In LoL... if 1/5 players is skilled more so then others (and thusly getting "fed") you could just target him first in all TF then focus the rest of the team and eventually (because he dies all the time) he will fall behind and (maybe) not be a threat anymore.

In HOTS: Single Player Targeting doesn't work as a strategy. Even if you kill him like there is no tomorrow he can still get more powerful while being dead the whole time because the rest of the team can "farm EXP for him". Therefore he won't ever fall behind and will continue to dominate.

i didn't say contradict, i said negate

TheGrandAlliance1 votes

[{quoted}](name=bad arcade kitty,realm=EUW,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=oKJPZ6Am,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-03-26T03:13:28.685+0000)

i didn't say contradict, i said negate

Ahhh I think I figured out your logic... Alas I am talking about 2 different issues which you have mixed up.

There is the issue of:

  1. If your skilled; your noobish team will leech your EXP from you, thus preventing you from being OP enough to carry
  2. If you (or enemy) has a skilled player on the team; and the rest of the teams are ==in skill/MMR or otherwise, being able to counter the one skilled player isn't possible because killing him won't stop him from building up more power.
bad arcade kitty4 votes

{quoted}

Ahhh I think I figured out your logic... Alas I am talking about 2 different issues which you have mixed up.

There is the issue of:

  1. If your skilled; your noobish team will leech your EXP from you, thus preventing you from being OP enough to carry
  2. If you (or enemy) has a skilled player on the team; and the rest of the teams are ==in skill/MMR or otherwise, being able to counter the one skilled player isn't possible because killing him won't stop him from building up more power.

i didn't mix up anything

it seems that skilled players in hots have 1 disadvantage which they don't have in lol and 1 advantage which they don't have in lol either

try to apply the second point to you, i.e. while the team leeches your exp, enemy cannot counter you focusing and shooting you down

now try to apply the first point to a skilled player that worries you, while you cannot shoot him down, his own team leeches his exp

your mistake is that you never try to apply the both points simultaneously

TheGrandAlliance1 votes

[{quoted}](name=bad arcade kitty,realm=EUW,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=oKJPZ6Am,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-26T04:53:32.620+0000)

i didn't mix up anything

it seems that skilled players in hots have 1 disadvantage which they don't have in lol and 1 advantage which they don't have in lol either

try to apply the second point to you, i.e. while the team leeches your exp, enemy cannot counter you focusing and shooting you down

now try to apply the first point to a skilled player that worries you, while you cannot shoot him down, his own team leeches his exp

your mistake is that you never try to apply the both points simultaneously

The reason they cannot be applied simultaneously is because they cannot occur as such.

Point 1 addresses if your on a team that, without you carrying it will lose with certainty.

Point 2 addresses if you in a match whereas 1/10 players are far more skilled then the others; that this player cannot be directly engaged. This assumes the 9 remaining players are all ==in skill. They do not therefore "leech EXP" from the skilled player.

Assuming that the team levels are approx==... the team with the more skilled player will win even though he isn't OP in terms of levels/power. A skilled player can carry matches even without out-leveling an opponent simply by good play.

In other words... focusing the skilled player will not force him to be far behind in EXP because he still gets EXP from the rest of his team. Whereas in LoL: If one player is doing good (even at same lvl as others) you can "focus him" and keep him from getting any more gold/items/exp. IN HOTS, even though he is dead, he will still get some EXP which will build his power.

Therefore the situation I addressed above with the 2 issues are mutually exclusive (both cannot be true; only one or the other).

bad arcade kitty3 votes

i.e. if we put it simply, you cannot use the advantage which some other people can use and so you claim it's a yet another disadvantage too

OJ1912 votes

{quoted}

I will try to clarify my wall of text (which was designed to be comprehensive so I do apologize:

In LoL... if 1/5 players is skilled more so then others (and thusly getting "fed") you could just target him first in all TF then focus the rest of the team and eventually (because he dies all the time) he will fall behind and (maybe) not be a threat anymore.

In HOTS: Single Player Targeting doesn't work as a strategy. Even if you kill him like there is no tomorrow he can still get more powerful while being dead the whole time because the rest of the team can "farm EXP for him". Therefore he won't ever fall behind and will continue to dominate.

If you killed the only skilled enemy why didn't you kill the rest of the enemy team and/or take free map objectives.

{quoted}

Technically HOTS is a F2P game because you can install it and play it without paying anything. However as it is currently structured in beta (which in theory is it's attempted business model) they make it so hard to get the in-game currency gold (or LoL's IP ==) that unless you are willing to put in tons of time into the game you will always be far behind someone who pays money. In other words: The prices to buy champions with gold and the effort to farm that gold is far greater then effort to farm IP in LoL.

Not to mention once you "unlocked" a character (or used it via weekly F2p sales) you have to spend countless ages again leveling it up again to unlock everything... however to be fair you only have to level it up someway to unlock all gameplay-related aspects.

It takes like 3 wins to unlock every gameplay aspect... If you don't want to muddle around in pvp without full talents you can do it in 5 coops games iirc.

{quoted}

The reason they cannot be applied simultaneously is because they cannot occur as such.

Point 1 addresses if your on a team that, without you carrying it will lose with certainty.

Point 2 addresses if you in a match whereas 1/10 players are far more skilled then the others; that this player cannot be directly engaged. This assumes the 9 remaining players are all ==in skill. They do not therefore "leech EXP" from the skilled player.

Assuming that the team levels are approx==... the team with the more skilled player will win even though he isn't OP in terms of levels/power. A skilled player can carry matches even without out-leveling an opponent simply by good play.

In other words... focusing the skilled player will not force him to be far behind in EXP because he still gets EXP from the rest of his team. Whereas in LoL: If one player is doing good (even at same lvl as others) you can "focus him" and keep him from getting any more gold/items/exp. IN HOTS, even though he is dead, he will still get some EXP which will build his power.

Therefore the situation I addressed above with the 2 issues are mutually exclusive (both cannot be true; only one or the other).

So what you're saying is... the more skilled team overall wins. Or are you trying to suggest that the less skilled team should be winning?

{quoted}

IT isn't as to whether it is an advantages to some or disadvantages as to others: This is a matter of game design/balance.

Yes; this could be considered a "good thing" if you want to "nerf smurfs" into their ELO Hells... alas this also means that smurfs will be "more stuck" in their ELO Hells. The point that I made in the OP was that "Team Experience" is a bad idea, causes unusual situations like this, and from a larger perspective, is a bad idea.

In other words: Just because it is "Good for some but not others" doesn't mean it is good overall, nor "fair", nor "balanced", nor even logical.

Also don't forget I made other arguments I made against Team EXP such as AFKers basically flooding all the team's EXP into a Black Hole... making 4v5 gameplay even more impossible at times.

This just in, AFK/DC screws over their team. Guess what the exact same thing happens in LoL without team XP (oh and you can get every source of XP with only 4 players anyway: up to 3 lanes and jungle monsters). Unless matchmaking is borked or you are retardedly outskilling your matchmaker rating, you're not going to win a 4v5 so why do you even care.

{quoted}

Riot doesn't have to worry about HotS, but not because it sucks. Simply because it is not in direct competition with LoL. It caters to a different audience, and will be successful for that audience.

I have absolutely no doubt that HotS once it gets going will be at least as successful as DotA. I doubt it will reach LoL levels of popularity but that's mainly because LoL's popularity is unheard of. But it will be a success since it offers a different experience catering to a different type of player than LoL or DotA do.

And that's what you need to offer if you want to be successful in as crowded a genre as MoBA has become: something unique.

Exactly this.

Nameless Hero2 votes

But Blizzard has more money and more experience than LOL. Heck, LOL even hired one of Blizzard's developpers to help them design season 5.

Furthermore, LOL is based on the original DOTA which was made and still plays on their game engine and Blizzard has a reputation for stomping competition. Basically, when they make 1 game, it stomps all other games in the same category and sets new impossibly high standards. Just look at how they stomped the RTS with Starcraft, MORPGs with WOW and MO Cardgames with Hearthstone.

Blizzard has a much higher budget than LOL, more game design talent and more experience than RIOT. HOTS also has an easier learning curve than LOL and "can" accommodate a more diverse meta. Their system also limits communication and the need for communication which means: a less toxic community. Something that can kill LOL if RIOT does not control it.

Don't discount Blizzard just yet.

TheGrandAlliance2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nameless Hero,realm=EUW,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=oKJPZ6Am,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-03-26T12:07:53.552+0000)

But Blizzard has more money and more experience than LOL. Heck, LOL even hired one of Blizzard's developpers to help them design season 5.

Furthermore, LOL is based on the original DOTA which was made and still plays on their game engine and Blizzard has a reputation for stomping competition. Basically, when they make 1 game, it stomps all other games in the same category and sets new impossibly high standards. Just look at how they stomped the RTS with Starcraft, MORPGs with WOW and MO Cardgames with Hearthstone.

Blizzard has a much higher budget than LOL, more game design talent and more experience than RIOT. HOTS also has an easier learning curve than LOL and "can" accommodate a more diverse meta. Their system also limits communication and the need for communication which means: a less toxic community. Something that can kill LOL if RIOT does not control it.

Don't discount Blizzard just yet.

Blizzard has 0 EXP with MOBAs. Furthermore what talent they still have is nothing compared to what it used to have. This argument is like saying Blizzard should be able to make a First-Person Shooter; or a Racing game, just because of WoW.

"Ghostcrawler", which was eluded to earlier in this thread, left WoW and came to LoL (was the "fearless leader" of all Warcraft game design before) because he gave up on Blizzard's intended direction. He has many posts on internet explaining the defection. If HOTS had a chance he would be working there instead. The fact he is with RIOT now only means Blizzard is weaker, and not stronger.

The only game that they "stomped" upon was MMORPGs. All other categories didnt' exist pre-Blizzard and the only reason they "control" it as you perceive it is because there is no competition to be had. Furthermore past performance does not ensure future performance...

The budget versus LoL is irrelevant... mostly because MOBAs are rather cheap games to make and LoL already exists. They cost a fraction of MMORPGs. Furthermore RIOT is owned now by a Chinese company... when purchased it was valued at around 300Million USD range (back in Season 1 age). RIOT has all the money it needs for a MOBA so there is no advantage here.

Lastly, the learning curve/toxicity is relative. HOTS is no different as to this respect because it means that to be better then everyone else requires the same learning. The only difference with LoL is that their champion pool is too small to cause much concern. Toxicity depends on who is playing... and "communication limiters" doesn't stop the 12-year WoW boys from messing up HOTS. Nor does it stop the goldspammers either (which amazingly enough exist in the beta even today... I was spammed with some claiming to be "Game Masters").

So yes... Blizzard can be discounted when it comes to vs LoL. Whether it is "successful" because their market is different and LoL/HOTS cannot be compared is beyond the scope of this thread. Alas RIOT has nothing to worry about HOTS.

Nameless Hero4 votes

{quoted}

The only game that they "stomped" upon was MMORPGs. All other categories didnt' exist pre-Blizzard and the only reason they "control" it as you perceive it is because there is no competition to be had.

Dude, I feel old telling you this but the reason that you think that there is no competition to be had is because Blizzard stomped the old games so hard that no one could compete. Before Diablo 3 there was Ultima7 now dead, Sacred, now dead, TitanQuest. Before Starcraft and Warcraft 3 there was the Command & Conquer series, the Warhammer series and the Age of Empire Series, those 3 were big names in the Strategy Game genre and Blizzard gutted them so hard that the young generation doesn't even remember they existed. Online card games exist and are big business. Did you hear about Urban Rivals and Magic the Gathering online? They have a big player base and yet struggle like shit to make a profit. Well Blizzard came and now they have 10x more accounts than their closest competitor. Nowadays we don't say Point&Click adventure, we say Diablo-like. They are that good.

Having less people is actually their strength because it's easier for them to debate game mechanics without spending ages arguing over and over. Blizzard is infamous for their date of release motto: We don't know, soon™ and as Riot is growing bigger and bigger, they are having more and more problems releasing content in time, and Riot may well surpass Blizzard in terms of content release delays, just look at the state of the lore.

But the biggest threat with Blizzard is that Blizzard never EVER skimps on quality. Starcraft looked like shit in beta before they scrapped the engine (AKA 100% of the coding) and recruited some fresh blood and now it's the king of RTS. If they start competiting seriously with you, you can be sure that they are playing to annihilate the competition.

P.S. Did you know? League of Legend is based on Aeon of Strife a map of Warcraft 3.

WellDoneHarry1 votes

I mostly agree with the post, except for this one thing:

[{quoted}](name=Nameless Hero,realm=EUW,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=oKJPZ6Am,comment-id=000700010000,timestamp=2015-03-31T05:12:14.745+0000) League of Legend is based on Aeon of Strife a map of Warcraft 3.

Aeon of Strife is a StarCraft: Brood War map, not the WarCraft one. It's true that this map is the root of the MOBA genre.

Nameless Hero1 votes

Damn! You're right.

I must have been sleepy when I made that post

Raptamei3 votes

{quoted}

Blizzard has 0 EXP with MOBAs.

We've learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone. [Apple] are not going to just figure this out. They're not going to just walk in. -Ed Colligan, Palm CEO, 2007

Fact: Heroes of the Storm is a HUGE threat for League.

  • They have the newbie appeal, being far easier to get into than League.
  • They have the Blizzard name (while Riot has a very negative public image).
  • They have multiple viable maps, which Riot cannot figure out for some reason.
  • They have no items - while items add depth to Dota, they are needless complexity in League because there is no diversity.
  • They have unique heroes like Abathur and Murky (and may even have made them weak on purpose because Johnny players like the challenge).
  • They implemented hero level before League.
  • They have no runes.
  • They have shorter matches.
  • They have no convoluted tribunal or report culture but a very simple solution: press the report button to never get matched with the guy again.
  • They have more modern game mechanics, and constant combat instead of farming (I am aware that this reduces depth. No one gives a single shit about depth. If people cared about depth, Dota 2 would be number one).

The ONLY reasons why people would not instantly jump ship to HotS are:

  • They invested a ton of money and time in League and don't feel like switching (of course newbies are ALL going to play HotS instead of League).
  • They like more depth, albeit at the cost of outdated mechanics, duct tape (jungle items) or fake complexity.
  • HotS has even more balance issues.

Riot can still win, but they need to do more than just crank out champions and jungle reworks. Riot needs to make LoL2 with multiple maps, more actually interesting game mechanics, less number juggling, no runes, and a much better newbie experience. If they do that, they can take back the spotlight. If they continue to do what they did the past several years, GG Rito.

Villmann2 votes

This is insanely biased. There are many "facts" here that simply is not true. I can go through them, and maybe you will concider playing the game again.

Firstly when someone go AFK on your team you actually wont get less exp, as long as someone on your team takes over the lane. This is one of the perks of the gameplay, because the consequenses wont be as big as when someone leaves in LoL.

It also seems like you only played a couple of games in quick match or even co-op? am i right? When you start playing with and against players of higher levels you will see that everyone will fight at the objectives. You cant simply kite your enemies around. Because of the map set-ups you would get completely annihilated from positioning. Thus you cant just rush to the objectives. Then you loose EXP at lanes aswell and loose the game. This is in my opinion the best thing about the game. Constant teamfights. The mercs also gets taken down pretty quickly unless you got a hero that is good at soloing(what we call jungling in LoL), if thats what you're meaning when talking about PVE.

Despite the lack of carriers and the ability to take down skilled players you can do a huge inpact in the game if you're skilled enough. The best players in Rank 1 got upwards of 80% winrate. How is that possible, you might wonder Mr TheGrandAlliance. Teamplay. Because HotS is so focused on teamplay and not individual skills, people seem to listen when you ping them to a location or to defend. How awesome is that?

You are right when you're saying that there is no real counterplay though. Not at the level of LoL atleast. But i think you're underestimating the diversity of the talent system. If im playing Rehgar with a illidan on my team i buff my lighting shield so i can help him do dmg. If im tyrande and playing against nazeebo i increase the range of my flare so i can stun his heroic ability. Thats just examples, and as you can tell the possibilites are endless. In LoL you can buff stats, in HotS you can buff your actual abilities to do both more dmg, but also have more range or make your single target spells do AoE dmg and so forth.

I do agree with you on the gold issue though. In HotS we dont get much gold, and that makes getting new heroes a pretty slow grind. Hopefully blizzard will fix this in the upcoming patches or when open-beta starts.

Custom game lobby is coming. They are also fixing Spectate Mode. The reason you can't spectate is because they use the SC2 engine. The SC2 engine wasn't made for spectating, and it works in a completely different way then the LoL engine. I could explain how it works but that would take ages, so you can just google it.

On the E-Sport issue, there is no issue. I find watching Heroes of the Storm much more fun and entertaining then League of Legends, but thats just me. This is of course up to each individual. I noticed that you don't understand why people would watch it. Well, bruh. Its much more fast paced and action packed than LoL, so when you get to know the game mechanics and how each map works you will find that it's just plain awesome.

You should play some more games, maybe lvl up to 30 and get some Hero League experience. Then im sure you will get a whole new perspective.

Cindikle2 votes

I thought this common knowledge?

HotS is a casual LoL.

I mean LoL can be really casual as it is. But HotS takes a lot of the thinking that LoL has and throws it out.

TheGrandAlliance1 votes

{quoted}

I thought this common knowledge?

Not as common as you may think....... many actually think HOTS will somehow reck and destroy LoL....

Cindikle1 votes

If DotA2 couldn't do it. HotS doesn't even come close.

Vicvictorw2 votes

I can overlook every single one of your cons, but provide another that in my opinion far outweighs _everything _you've said:

You have no idea what your team is going to be until the queue pops. You pick and lock in your hero, then queue up and hope the matchmaker gives you a proper team comp. There is no picking to suit your team. You just hope what you picked works and you don't get a team full of utility with zero damage.

TheGrandAlliance1 votes

{quoted}

I can overlook every single one of your cons, but provide another that in my opinion far outweighs _everything _you've said:

You have no idea what your team is going to be until the queue pops. You pick and lock in your hero, then queue up and hope the matchmaker gives you a proper team comp. There is no picking to suit your team. You just hope what you picked works and you don't get a team full of utility with zero damage.

Yes... very much so.... and not only that: You don't know which map you are playing on.

However HotS is currently in beta so there may be some testing reasoning behind the randomness of matchmaking... however if it stands as is: Indeed you have very good point as well.

TheGrandAlliance2 votes

HOTS To Be Released June 2: Looks like nothing new will be added between now and then....

LoL has nothing to worry about.

Indeed it is so...

Dianasaurus2 votes

My opinion:

  1. I tried Heroes of the storm... but I eventually closed the game and deleted it as fast as I was done. As a LoL player, HoTS is nothing like League and I can't believe people say that.. also they say it's "Fun" but it actually sucks donkey.
  2. I think it's sad that Blizzard are so stupid to even steal ideas from League (I know LoL stole ideas from Dota), at least couldn't Blizz have worked a little bit more on it instead of throwing out a game (a copy of League and Dota) that sucks more than even Dota did after League was made. League actually dominated dota and was a great game, Riot made a 1000x times better version of dota and players liked it.
  3. Riot has nothing to worry about, they can relax and be proud of what an amazing game they have created.
  4. How can you say LoL is bad? if you say that... I don't know how bad you are at games and what kind of bad taste you have for games... but I think you should leave and don't say a word about LoL again and go play HoTS that clearly sucks more than Dota ever did.
  5. Fact, Blizzard made a game that is even worse than Dota.

Blizzard = Failed

League of Legends is the game I've fallen so hard for and the only game I ever did fall for. It's the best game so far and I just give you my advice... Don't copy something more than once... it will only end up as HoTS or fail hard because you can't take away all the players from one game because you make another copy of it (even if it's not exactly the same.. it is still containing and was built up just as the other games.

TheGrandAlliance2 votes

[{quoted}](name=CC Squishy,realm=EUNE,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=oKJPZ6Am,comment-id=0019,timestamp=2015-05-07T16:40:25.985+0000)

It's the best game so far and I just give you my advice... Don't copy something more than once... it will only end up as HoTS or fail hard because you can't take away all the players from one game because you make another copy of it (even if it's not exactly the same.. it is still containing and was built up just as the other games.

Yes... all very well put in the post above.

What is funny is that this and my thread in general is being downvoted hard on a RIOT forum. SO either everyone here is about to jump ship to HOTS, are Blizzard Employees, or just a bunch of "WoW 12 year olds" item 3070 item 3070 ing to get RIOT's attention.

In either case... very sad no doubt Indeed...

Dianasaurus1 votes

Very sad :( well it's only natural... maybe they are jealous because they can't come up with something like this or they have too small brains to understand it. I feel you man, and I've also been in the same boat as you.

TheGrandAlliance1 votes

[{quoted}](name=CC Squishy,realm=EUNE,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=oKJPZ6Am,comment-id=001900000000,timestamp=2015-06-05T01:53:35.166+0000)

Very sad :( well it's only natural... maybe they are jealous because they can't come up with something like this or they have too small brains to understand it. I feel you man, and I've also been in the same boat as you.

LoL yes... what is funny as hell is this thread is getting downvoted even though the evidence is clear now: The game has been launched and everything I posted stands true. So much trollin' on forums alas...

INdeed it is so...

Extreme Troller2 votes

blizzard died since 2006. Burning crusade was their last good game. almost all the veterans of blizzard quitted/died/retired, they are replaced by noobs youngs game designers that have no clue what's a good game. starcraft 2 was only a hd version of starcraft with no new awesome feature. diablo3 release was "ok" the first 2 month, but jay wilson stoped the project and game is uber crâp since then. hearthstone, overwatch, heroes of the storm -> BIG LOL. Only peasant play their games. Riot games is not that good neither though.... League is casual noob game since 2011. but i cant say riot died, i have to wait their next mmo.

Eleshakai1 votes

Riot doesn't have to worry about HotS, but not because it sucks. Simply because it is not in direct competition with LoL. It caters to a different audience, and will be successful for that audience.

I have absolutely no doubt that HotS once it gets going will be at least as successful as DotA. I doubt it will reach LoL levels of popularity but that's mainly because LoL's popularity is unheard of. But it will be a success since it offers a different experience catering to a different type of player than LoL or DotA do.

And that's what you need to offer if you want to be successful in as crowded a genre as MoBA has become: something unique.

TheGrandAlliance1 votes

{quoted}

Riot doesn't have to worry about HotS, but not because it sucks. Simply because it is not in direct competition with LoL. It caters to a different audience, and will be successful for that audience.

I have absolutely no doubt that HotS once it gets going will be at least as successful as DotA. I doubt it will reach LoL levels of popularity but that's mainly because LoL's popularity is unheard of. But it will be a success since it offers a different experience catering to a different type of player than LoL or DotA do.

And that's what you need to offer if you want to be successful in as crowded a genre as MoBA has become: something unique.

This is only somewhat true... but not entirely.

"E-sports"... in terms of what is considered "legitimate", "high end" or otherwise "elite, IS limited. If people think HOTS is a "casual" game (which it is) the "real" Esports teams won't even touch it... and although BLizzard no doubt will back it up with epic levels of funding: It will never reach widespread intrest/viewership therefore.

And BTW in terms of "unique": There isn't anything "uniquie" about HOTS that combat-wise mechinally copies mostly the same core MOBA mechanics as everything else (top down, point-to-click, 4 button actions) and therefore just messing with the stuff I added isn't a true gamechanger. IF Blizzard wanted something "unique" then they would make something in 3D (side angle view like most games) or otherwise.

Eleshakai1 votes

{quoted}

This is only somewhat true... but not entirely.

"E-sports"... in terms of what is considered "legitimate", "high end" or otherwise "elite, IS limited. If people think HOTS is a "casual" game (which it is) the "real" Esports teams won't even touch it... and although BLizzard no doubt will back it up with epic levels of funding: It will never reach widespread intrest/viewership therefore.

And BTW in terms of "unique": There isn't anything "uniquie" about HOTS that combat-wise mechinally copies mostly the same core MOBA mechanics as everything else (top down, point-to-click, 4 button actions) and therefore just messing with the stuff I added isn't a true gamechanger. IF Blizzard wanted something "unique" then they would make something in 3D (side angle view like most games) or otherwise.

I disagree wtih the entirety of your post.

  1. Legitimate e-sports organizations ALREADY HAVE TEAMS for HotS, and it is still in beta. Cloud 9, for example, had a team back when the game was still in alpha. I don't see the e-sports scene lacking, really.

  2. There is a LOT unique about it. The strategic mechanics of it cater to a completely different audience. Most of the people I know who play HotS dislike BOTH LoL and DotA. Yet they love HotS. Why? Because it is different. BTW, the over the shoulder view wouldn't be unique, since it has already been done - see Smite. Blizzard has done the smart thing and abandoned most of the genre's common tropes since we already HAVE two successful games built off of those tropes. There is no room for a third, so they went in a different direction. The shared exp, objective focus, and talents direct the game in a different enough direction that it is not in direct competition so HotS's success will NOT be at the expense of the other games. It will in fact increase the popularity of the genre on the whole by adding additional exposure.

I get it, you dislike HotS. That's fine. It's not designed with you in mind. It's designed with someone else in mind, and that's great. Because it means you can keep playing LoL and see the benefits that HotS's popularity will bring to the genre as a whole.

(also, in more direct response to your OP, a lot of what you said there is blatantly false or shortsighted. If you level your account a few levels which only takes a handful of games you automatically get enough gold to buy one hero. Just like LoL. The current matchmaking is likely to be only temporary since most people are complaining about it - that's what beta is for, to try things out. The gold grind has been confirmed FACTUALLY and MATHEMATICALLY to be no worse than LoL for the average player - I don't like the way the gold is distributed, but it is actually less grindy and more measured than LoL, and will take a similar length of time on average)

TheGrandAlliance1 votes

{quoted}

I disagree wtih the entirety of your post.

  1. Legitimate e-sports organizations ALREADY HAVE TEAMS for HotS, and it is still in beta. Cloud 9, for example, had a team back when the game was still in alpha. I don't see the e-sports scene lacking, really.

  2. There is a LOT unique about it. The strategic mechanics of it cater to a completely different audience. Most of the people I know who play HotS dislike BOTH LoL and DotA. Yet they love HotS. The shared exp, objective focus, and talents direct the game in a different enough direction that it is not in direct competition so HotS's success will NOT be at the expense of the other games. It will in fact increase the popularity of the genre on the whole by adding additional exposure.

(also, in more direct response to your OP, a lot of what you said there is blatantly false or shortsighted. If you level your account a few levels which only takes a handful of games you automatically get enough gold to buy one hero. Just like LoL.

LOL first of all:

  1. C9 isn't a "real" team.. that is tier 1 team that could win worlds. WHen TSM, Fnnatic, Counter Logic, SK Gaming, or basically most KOrean teams play HOTS u let me know...

  2. Even by your own logic... you prove my thread's title. HOTS is no threat (direct or otherwise) to RIOT/LoL.

  3. This is also not true... first of all in LoL you have perma unlocked noob champions that you can ALWAYS use. IN HOTS u have to unlock one b4 they take it away from you (during 1 week free play). Furthermore it takes many matches to get 2,000 (min for anything) and the 2K ones mostly suck so getting 4K takes even longer. IF you don't grind heavy the first week you have to always start over with a new champion.

For some that may not be a problem... but for people like I's who dont' play 18937490123 champions this is very annoying.

Eleshakai2 votes

{quoted}

LOL first of all:

  1. C9 isn't a "real" team.. that is tier 1 team that could win worlds. WHen TSM, Fnnatic, Counter Logic, SK Gaming, or basically most KOrean teams play HOTS u let me know...

  2. Even by your own logic... you prove my thread's title. HOTS is no threat (direct or otherwise) to RIOT/LoL.

  3. This is also not true... first of all in LoL you have perma unlocked noob champions that you can ALWAYS use. IN HOTS u have to unlock one b4 they take it away from you (during 1 week free play). Furthermore it takes many matches to get 2,000 (min for anything) and the 2K ones mostly suck so getting 4K takes even longer. IF you don't grind heavy the first week you have to always start over with a new champion.

For some that may not be a problem... but for people like I's who dont' play 18937490123 champions this is very annoying.

You're vastly overestimating the length of time it takes to unlock your first hero. The number of one-time gold bonuses you get will be enough to, assuming you play a decent number of games, get your first one unlocked in a reasonable length of time. You should be able to get a 2k hero within a day or two or a 4k hero within a week easily assuming you do the dailies each day(which takes a few games every couple days)

Don't get me wrong, there are some big problems with the HotS monetization model. But the problem is NOT the new player experience.

If you manage to reach player level 4 you'll have 2k gold not counting match rewards and dailies. Level 4 took me about 3 days of play( and I only played a few games at a time). In doing that I also earned about 1200g from dailies/match rewards. If you play with a friend you'll get there even faster because of the 50% exp bonus for playing with a friend.

Trust me, getting your first hero unlocked is easy, unless you want one of the really expensive ones.

If you don't get enough gold to unlock one hero in a week, you're not enjoying the game enough to care because it really does only take a few matches to get that first 2-4k gold.

Also, by saying "2K ones mostly suck" you show your ignorance. Every single one of the 2k heroes is considered to be among the best in their role except ETC. I mean, that changes as balance changes happen, so it may not have been the same when you first posted this.

But yes, I agree with the thread's title... but disagree with EVERYTHING else you said.

Okay so pro teams... here are a few I was able to find on short notice that have teams: Liquid (http://www.teamliquidpro.com/ - scroll down to the bottom, they have their HotS roster listed) , Curse (http://www.teamcurse.net/divisions/heroes-of-the-storm/team-curse-heroes-of-the-storm), C9 (http://cloud9.gg/news/2014/10//cloud9-enters-the-storm-with-new-heroes-of-the-storm-team), Evil Geniuses (http://evilgeniuses.gg/The-team/Heroes-of-the-Storm/), Complexity (https://www.complexitygaming.com/news/4482/), FNatic(http://www.fnatic.com/content/96330), and SK Gaming (http://www.sk-gaming.com/content/1668107-SK_Gaming_Enter_Heroes_of_the_Storm)

So, is evidence enough to convince you? Not that I really expect it will be...

TheGrandAlliance1 votes

{quoted}

You're vastly overestimating the length of time it takes to unlock your first hero. The number of one-time gold bonuses you get will be enough to, assuming you play a decent number of games, get your first one unlocked in a reasonable length of time. You should be able to get a 2k hero within a day or two or a 4k hero within a week easily assuming you do the dailies each day(which takes a few games every couple days)

Okay so pro teams... here are a few I was able to find on short notice that have teams: Liquid (http://www.teamliquidpro.com/ - scroll down to the bottom, they have their HotS roster listed) , Curse (http://www.teamcurse.net/divisions/heroes-of-the-storm/team-curse-heroes-of-the-storm), C9 (http://cloud9.gg/news/2014/10//cloud9-enters-the-storm-with-new-heroes-of-the-storm-team), Evil Geniuses (http://evilgeniuses.gg/The-team/Heroes-of-the-Storm/), Complexity (https://www.complexitygaming.com/news/4482/), FNatic(http://www.fnatic.com/content/96330), and SK Gaming (http://www.sk-gaming.com/content/1668107-SK_Gaming_Enter_Heroes_of_the_Storm)

So, is evidence enough to convince you? Not that I really expect it will be...

But yes, I agree with the thread's title... but disagree with EVERYTHING else you said.

  1. "a day or two"... which means you have to commit to playing that long until you get one. My point in opening was that if you only wanted to casually play (or more accurately; spend time in custom game by urself before engaging) you are forced to grind up to various gold tiers b4 you get something. IF you don't you will lose your champion and have to start all over with the weekly rotations.

  2. Again... the pro teams, not counting the 2 EU teams, are just failed LCS teams looking for new game. TSM isn't engaged unless I am misinformed; nor top tier Korean teams which of course probably matter most.

In either situation... I doubt 20-30 minutes max matches that HOTS last in general will ever pose much watchability E-sports wise vs LCS... as matches just go too fast to appreciate all the details of the game otherwise. HOTS has massive death counters after only 15 min (or around lvl 20) thus limiting lots of the action.

And that PvE... man I spent some more time in HOTS just to reprove my points in OP.... the PvE in that game just ruins the game. YOu can easily lose all Teamfights; have lower stats then enemy, and win as long as you kite them around and focus PvE objectives (true for most maps). When all you have to do is unlock the "map legendary" and gg (no further efforts needed) it is no wonder PvE messes up this game.

And the trolls... for maps that have a player controlled powered up unit... better hope they are smart enough to know WTF they are doing. I assume E-sports of course would be fair... alas not for the rest of the game playerbase.

Alas: You agree with my premise (the thread's title). That is good enough for me perhaps LoL even if the logic therefore is different.

Indeed it is so...

Eleshakai1 votes

{quoted}

  1. "a day or two"... which means you have to commit to playing that long until you get one. My point in opening was that if you only wanted to casually play (or more accurately; spend time in custom game by urself before engaging) you are forced to grind up to various gold tiers b4 you get something. IF you don't you will lose your champion and have to start all over with the weekly rotations.

  2. Again... the pro teams, not counting the 2 EU teams, are just failed LCS teams looking for new game. TSM isn't engaged unless I am misinformed; nor top tier Korean teams which of course probably matter most.

In either situation... I doubt 20-30 minutes max matches that HOTS last in general will ever pose much watchability E-sports wise vs LCS... as matches just go too fast to appreciate all the details of the game otherwise. HOTS has massive death counters after only 15 min (or around lvl 20) thus limiting lots of the action.

And that PvE... man I spent some more time in HOTS just to reprove my points in OP.... the PvE in that game just ruins the game. YOu can easily lose all Teamfights; have lower stats then enemy, and win as long as you kite them around and focus PvE objectives (true for most maps). When all you have to do is unlock the "map legendary" and gg (no further efforts needed) it is no wonder PvE messes up this game.

And the trolls... for maps that have a player controlled powered up unit... better hope they are smart enough to know WTF they are doing. I assume E-sports of course would be fair... alas not for the rest of the game playerbase.

Alas: You agree with my premise (the thread's title). That is good enough for me perhaps LoL even if the logic therefore is different.

Indeed it is so...

  1. I mean a day or two of playing bot games. I didn't play against people until I'd unlocked 3 heroes myself, which took me about 2 weeks of playing a couple games every few days. You are just ignorant of how fast the process is and that is perfectly fine... but stop talking as if you know what you're talking about.

  2. Spoken as someone who assumes that the LCS is the only successful esports platform. No, actually. They are all successful e-sports organizations who have decided to support the new game because it looks promising. In order to do so, they have taken on pro players from various places - former SC2/LoL/DotA players who wanted a new game, new upcoming stars, etc. - and formed teams for it. Now, I'm notr going to say it is going to reach LCS levels, but that's a ridiculously absurd expectation. It IS going to be successful though. And 20-30 minute matches allows for best of # series to be more common, which is what I'm hoping for. I wish we got to see more best of series in the LCS honestly, because that is where matches become most interesting.

As to your comment on PVE - yes, you're playing as a newbie. Low level players tend to ignore objectives letting people come back into the game. At higher tiers of play, teamfights happen FOR THE OBJECTIVES which means that if you lose the teamfights, you tend to lose the objectives.

I disagree with your reasoning. You have the WORST REASONS for assuming your thread's premise. If you said '1+1=2 because the sky is blue', I'd still agree that 1+1 DOES equal 2... but I wouldn't agree that the sky is blue(it's not really afterall) OR that that is related to 1+1=2. You've come up with false reasons that show your ignorance to try to prove an obviously true point. You're just trying to bolster your poor self-esteem by having people agree with you, and it's a stupid tactic because your reasoning is so ignorant it is almost painful to read.

Raptamei1 votes

League will need to make major changes to keep up with the new reality where players demand matches of no more than 20 minutes, no overly complex item system, no 120 champions to learn, multiple maps, interesting objectives, no runes and fun and varied character kits.

League feels old next to HotS even if it has more depth, just like an old Blackberry next to the first and much less capable but easier to use iPhone. And we know how that went.

Riot should not fight this losing battle. Blizzard will win the new generation of players and thereby win the market in the long term. Riot should take its money and start working on LoL2 along the same lines as HotS but better, with more maps and continuous updates (Blizzard won't have the dedication to compete), preferably also (or mainly) on mobile devices to pre-empt the decline of desktops.

If they do this, they will demolish HotS. If they stick with the outmoded classic MOBA model and its design flaws, the best they can hope for is a slow decline.

OJ1912 votes

{quoted}

League will need to make major changes to keep up with the new reality where players demand matches of no more than 20 minutes, no overly complex item system, no 120 champions to learn, multiple maps, interesting objectives, no runes and fun and varied character kits.

League feels old next to HotS even if it has more depth, just like an old Blackberry next to the first and much less capable but easier to use iPhone. And we know how that went.

Riot should not fight this losing battle. Blizzard will win the new generation of players and thereby win the market in the long term. Riot should take its money and start working on LoL2 along the same lines as HotS but better, with more maps and continuous updates (Blizzard won't have the dedication to compete), preferably also (or mainly) on mobile devices to pre-empt the decline of desktops.

If they do this, they will demolish HotS. If they stick with the outmoded classic MOBA model and its design flaws, the best they can hope for is a slow decline.

Not gonna happen, they're completely different games for a different audience.

It's not like iPhone vs blackberry, more like PC gaming vs console gaming. They're so different they're almost different genres to be honest.

I desperately need sleep now good night all, will check and reply in the morning.

Samus Frost1 votes

Can I just toss in the fact that I've dug around through the games options to edit the resolution and have found nothing? I can't even play the game without a 4-inch black bar on the right side of my screen so everything looks like squished crap.

TheGrandAlliance1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Samus Frost,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=oKJPZ6Am,comment-id=001f,timestamp=2015-06-03T03:41:53.977+0000)

Can I just toss in the fact that I've dug around through the games options to edit the resolution and have found nothing? I can't even play the game without a 4-inch black bar on the right side of my screen so everything looks like squished crap.

There is resolution settings... when on home page or in game there is graphics settings... I could get the screenshots for you if needed...

Sukishoo1 votes

The game is actually good, you're just sad.

TheGrandAlliance1 votes

{quoted}

The game is actually good, you're just sad.

Glad you enjoyed your Blizzard then.

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