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RIOT Has Nothing to Worry About Blizzard's "Heroes of the Storm"...

TheGrandAlliance·3/26/2015, 2:28:14 AM·21 votes·11,738 views

...because it is /EPICFAIL from the start and not going anywhere. Not only does it fail to execute new MOBA concepts as intended by Blizzard: It takes all the bad stuff that people QQ about in LOL and magnifies them 1000x. Want to escape ELO Hell? GL with Team Experience. Got AFK? GL going 4v5 with 1/5 of EXP going into a Black Hole. Strategic Diversity/Counterplay? Does that even exist in HOTS?.

Once you spent some time playing HOTS you will quickly remember Why you Appreciate LoL.

EDIT: HoTS Launched Today (June 2, 2015): Are we all still here? Yes good carry on then...

The following is a summary of exactly WTF I am talking about:

1 PVE Objective "FTW":

People who complain about there being "Too much PvE in their PvP Game" where it be LoL or otherwise... will have it magnified 1000x fold if not more for HOTS.

HOTS is almost entirely a PvE game with PvP mixed in. The objectives, which vary by map, not only provide for a confusing strategy but one that requires heavy focus on the PvE map/micro objectives. In LoL for example; there only a handful of PvE objectives (outside of the "Jungler role"), they are clearly identifiable (BN/Dragon), and generally only have "OP" or otherwise significant consequence late game (as to prevent games from going on forever especially LCS ones).

Whereas in HOTS you have to constantly manage various PvE objectives the entire game. Not to mention the Minions are far more OP even at higher levels (they cannot simply be wave cleared easily). IN HOTS the goal is simply to kite the enemy around long enough while you cap enough PvE objectives in order to unlock a mapwide OP status ("Legendary Objective") and win: You don't have to be the best PvP team or even be able to beat your enemy in the field. Nor does getting "ACE'd" in LoL terms even have significant consequence especially if you pushed the PvE objectives. The structures in HOTS have massive health and some with shields, that even at full power, take time (such as the Nexus) to knock down.

2 "Team Experience":

If you thought "ELO HELL" or AFKers were bad for "Player Experience" in LoL: Just wait until you play HOTS.

Sounds like a good idea right? Wrong again. It basically takes away power from skilled players and dumps it to everyone else. Thus if you are trying to carry your team: Your efforts will likely be wasted because you won't ever be able to get massively OP vs the enemy. If your team feeds like no tomorrow your efforts won't overcome this. In addition: Given the average effect of this will result in neither team will get very far ahead of the other in most matches thus rewarding passive gameplay.

Not to mention AFKers: IF you though AFK was bad in LoL just wait until 1/5 of your teams EXP is dumped into an offline player. Now you will be behind in levels AND in Power. *Not to mention that if you DC an AI bot takes control of your character until you return: Reclogging into the game takes far longer then LoL * And of course this bot spends your talents for you... thus if you do return you left with a messed up strategy.

Given that this game is PvE focused: The Team EXP also just rewards who can outfarm the PvE objectives faster because the reward for killing players is not worth the effort. Why go in a teamfight and come out with losses when you can just run around the map, quickly fighting the scores of PvE targets? It is like if LoL's jungle became the primary EXP source for a team.

Also, another overlooked consideration is counterplay to skilled players. Because you can no longer "target" a player who is getting ahead to shut him down, higher skilled players can easily just go in, burst their way to glory, die, and still result in winning a battle and level race even if they die. And they will still get the follow up EXP from the hordes of PvE objectives the remaining team gets out of the effort thus just making them more OP. If your in a match with vs a high MMR (or hidden one) they will just dominate a match even more.

3 "Talents":

If you wanted an alternative game to LoL that rewarded strategic knowledge about the game: HOTS just gives you a "dumbed-down casual" version of a MOBA that doesn't reward intelligent gameplay.

HOTS has no items. Which means you are locked into the playstyle that Blizzard wants for you for that particular champion. Also without any items in this game (or in-match gold to use to buy with) there isn't any statistics buidup, nor true counterplay. Although there are various talents for each champions: IN most cases there is only one proper build for any situation +few optional components (such as which ultimate to unlock) that is more about player preference then any possible counterplay.

VS tanky team and want Armor Pen? Nope, you cannot have that. Want "strategic diversity" items such as item 3056 or build defensive items such as item 3140 item 3157 to counter certain enemy skills? No again. Some HOTS fanboys may try to argue that there is "counterplay" with the talents... alas if you actually do your research you will find this to be a false case. Furthermore, since talents appear to be "locked" in or otherwise unchangeable I fail to see how anything can be countered either.

4 "Gold Grinder/Pay-to-Win":

Unless you have "no-life" and can play forever: You are going to be Griefed into Grinding forever simply to unlock (a single) champion not to mention enough to be competitive or otherwise have a full understanding of gameplay.

Currently as it stands you either have to grind like crazy at from the start of the game in order to get gold just to buy your first champion, or pay real currency (which you can now even in a beta) in order to advance. As you may know in LoL if you are new player you have a set of 10 (such as Ashe Lux Katarina ) that are permantally unlocked until you start to level up/buy champions. Then you get dumped into the set of rotating weekly champions.

Currently in HOTS: You can only play what is free that week. BTW did I mention you have to level up characters in addition to your own levels before you can use all their talent upgrades? That means that unless you spend lots of time in a 1-week period to unlock as many as you can (which probably will be 1-2 at most) you will be forced to play new champions every time you login for awhile. For New players to the MOBA game especially this just makes an unfamiliar playstyle become even more hard: RIOT refers to this concept as "On-Boarding".

The game makes you Asian-grind level just to unlock a single champion... and good luck if you want to unlock just one for each role as well. Unlike RIOT which make its profit and price points around the skins which are purely optional: HOTS basically /grief your way into giving up and paying for things with USD that you may not even want in the end.

5 "Map Matchmaking ???":

Imagine LoL whereas when you queried for a mode you wouldn't know whether you are going to be playing Summoner's Rift, Crystal Scar, Howling, Twisted. Welcome to HOTS.

Although one could claim that most of the maps have same underlying concepts... in reality they are completely different from one each other, requiring different use of the overwhelming PvE mechanics; of course some champions are better suited for some types then others, and lastly I fail to understand how competitive PvP could even operate with this concept. Not to mention at moment... there is no "custom game lobby", nor spectator mode, so your basically on your own for now (not including the spam-filled "general channel" (WoW's /1)).

6 "E-Sports Potential":

Blizzard has continuously failed to make headway into E-Sports... and HOTS is not going to save them this time.

For the various reasons above, and simply given its undefined state as is, it is unlikely that skilled professional teams will even waste time with HOTS. Of course... all of the "LCS Washouts" who fail to qualify for LCS or otherwise no chance with Worlds will find something else to "Fail Their Way Up". Alas good luck getting anyone worth watching to play HOTS.

That of course... won't stop Blizzard with its Horde of $$$ to promote it as long as they want in Blizcon and otherwise. Just because you hold lots of random tournaments doesn't make your game a "E-Sport" worth watching. Nor does it create the very dedicated (and mostly so "watchable") staff, shoutcasters, stages, and production value, to enjoy the game.

7 "Lore":

.................................................

Lastly; for anyone here who still cares about LORE of course (the few, the proud) the suggestion that historical Blizzard characters are just randomly thrown into another "Nexus" universe requires that all preexisting lore of Blizzard games to be broken. Of course "nobody cares about lore anymore" so why should you care? Well with that attitude: Why aren't you playing DOTA?

These issues as presented demonstrate core issues with HOTS that cannot be undone in any due time, are effectively exclusive to HOTS, and will prevent HOTS from ever being any significant rival to LoL. And because we all know nobody in video game industry has bigger EGO then Blizzard (just go to a Blizcon plz and watch them talk) settling for "second-best" is automatically a /EPICFAIL for them.

If you spent time in HOTS: You will quickly remember why LoL is such a good game, even with all its issues and otherwise. At least there is an army of RIOTERs trying (minus RIOT's "Fearless" of course:) ) to make the game as best at can be... free from excessive egotism and generally (alas not always of course (I am looking at youLeeSin)) skilled at provided a balanced, logical, fun; and for E-sports mostly importantly, watchable game.

Alas... for all the trashy threads in here item 3070 item 3070 about "balance" or otherwise in LoL: Be grateful you're not mixed up with the /EPICFAIL game Heroes of the Storm.

Indeed it is so...

92 Comments

Alljoy3/26/2015, 2:52:29 AM6 votes

I remember when people used to call League, DotA for Dummies.

But no fear, now that there's HotS to carry that mantle.

Arcade Andrew3/26/2015, 3:01:57 AM4 votes

Blizzard is a terrible company IMO I'm the kind of guy who though runescape (before the combat update) was better than WoW

and as far as im concerned Wow has lost its glory, I never hear about Wow or see WoW mentioned unless its a commercial on TV but I hear tons about RS ( I personally dont like RS since the combat update , that ruined the game for me tbh)

also runescape was free to play with the option to pay for extra features, to access WoW? YOU HAD TO PAY. so I bet HOTS is p2p not f2p like league

Sarutobi3/26/2015, 2:33:55 AM4 votes

You do realize the game is in Beta. of course there is going to be a lot of stuff that doesnt work for the game, and thats why they are doing it in Beta. see how to improve from it. dont really see why you needed to write something like this. things have and are going to continue to change for the game, hence why its still in Beta. if the game was already released or had been released for some time your complaint would be warranted but changes like this happens all the time in Beta!

Villmann3/26/2015, 2:24:50 PM2 votes

This is insanely biased. There are many "facts" here that simply is not true. I can go through them, and maybe you will concider playing the game again.

Firstly when someone go AFK on your team you actually wont get less exp, as long as someone on your team takes over the lane. This is one of the perks of the gameplay, because the consequenses wont be as big as when someone leaves in LoL.

It also seems like you only played a couple of games in quick match or even co-op? am i right? When you start playing with and against players of higher levels you will see that everyone will fight at the objectives. You cant simply kite your enemies around. Because of the map set-ups you would get completely annihilated from positioning. Thus you cant just rush to the objectives. Then you loose EXP at lanes aswell and loose the game. This is in my opinion the best thing about the game. Constant teamfights. The mercs also gets taken down pretty quickly unless you got a hero that is good at soloing(what we call jungling in LoL), if thats what you're meaning when talking about PVE.

Despite the lack of carriers and the ability to take down skilled players you can do a huge inpact in the game if you're skilled enough. The best players in Rank 1 got upwards of 80% winrate. How is that possible, you might wonder Mr TheGrandAlliance. Teamplay. Because HotS is so focused on teamplay and not individual skills, people seem to listen when you ping them to a location or to defend. How awesome is that?

You are right when you're saying that there is no real counterplay though. Not at the level of LoL atleast. But i think you're underestimating the diversity of the talent system. If im playing Rehgar with a illidan on my team i buff my lighting shield so i can help him do dmg. If im tyrande and playing against nazeebo i increase the range of my flare so i can stun his heroic ability. Thats just examples, and as you can tell the possibilites are endless. In LoL you can buff stats, in HotS you can buff your actual abilities to do both more dmg, but also have more range or make your single target spells do AoE dmg and so forth.

I do agree with you on the gold issue though. In HotS we dont get much gold, and that makes getting new heroes a pretty slow grind. Hopefully blizzard will fix this in the upcoming patches or when open-beta starts.

Custom game lobby is coming. They are also fixing Spectate Mode. The reason you can't spectate is because they use the SC2 engine. The SC2 engine wasn't made for spectating, and it works in a completely different way then the LoL engine. I could explain how it works but that would take ages, so you can just google it.

On the E-Sport issue, there is no issue. I find watching Heroes of the Storm much more fun and entertaining then League of Legends, but thats just me. This is of course up to each individual. I noticed that you don't understand why people would watch it. Well, bruh. Its much more fast paced and action packed than LoL, so when you get to know the game mechanics and how each map works you will find that it's just plain awesome.

You should play some more games, maybe lvl up to 30 and get some Hero League experience. Then im sure you will get a whole new perspective.

bad arcade kitty3/26/2015, 2:58:17 AM2 votes

too long to read i agree that hots is crap but i should note that these your points seem to negate each other

"Team Experience": Sounds like a good idea right? Wrong again. It basically takes away power from skilled players and dumps it to everyone else.

....

Also, another overlooked consideration is counterplay to skilled players. Because you can no longer "target" a player who is getting ahead to shut him down, higher skilled players can easily just go in, burst their way to glory, die, and still result in winning a battle and level race even if they die.

Nameless Hero3/26/2015, 12:07:53 PM2 votes

But Blizzard has more money and more experience than LOL. Heck, LOL even hired one of Blizzard's developpers to help them design season 5.

Furthermore, LOL is based on the original DOTA which was made and still plays on their game engine and Blizzard has a reputation for stomping competition. Basically, when they make 1 game, it stomps all other games in the same category and sets new impossibly high standards. Just look at how they stomped the RTS with Starcraft, MORPGs with WOW and MO Cardgames with Hearthstone.

Blizzard has a much higher budget than LOL, more game design talent and more experience than RIOT. HOTS also has an easier learning curve than LOL and "can" accommodate a more diverse meta. Their system also limits communication and the need for communication which means: a less toxic community. Something that can kill LOL if RIOT does not control it.

Don't discount Blizzard just yet.

Vicvictorw4/9/2015, 5:24:03 AM2 votes

I can overlook every single one of your cons, but provide another that in my opinion far outweighs _everything _you've said:

You have no idea what your team is going to be until the queue pops. You pick and lock in your hero, then queue up and hope the matchmaker gives you a proper team comp. There is no picking to suit your team. You just hope what you picked works and you don't get a team full of utility with zero damage.

TheGrandAlliance5/2/2015, 12:48:04 AM2 votes

HOTS To Be Released June 2: Looks like nothing new will be added between now and then....

LoL has nothing to worry about.

Indeed it is so...

Dianasaurus5/7/2015, 4:40:25 PM2 votes

My opinion:

  1. I tried Heroes of the storm... but I eventually closed the game and deleted it as fast as I was done. As a LoL player, HoTS is nothing like League and I can't believe people say that.. also they say it's "Fun" but it actually sucks donkey.
  2. I think it's sad that Blizzard are so stupid to even steal ideas from League (I know LoL stole ideas from Dota), at least couldn't Blizz have worked a little bit more on it instead of throwing out a game (a copy of League and Dota) that sucks more than even Dota did after League was made. League actually dominated dota and was a great game, Riot made a 1000x times better version of dota and players liked it.
  3. Riot has nothing to worry about, they can relax and be proud of what an amazing game they have created.
  4. How can you say LoL is bad? if you say that... I don't know how bad you are at games and what kind of bad taste you have for games... but I think you should leave and don't say a word about LoL again and go play HoTS that clearly sucks more than Dota ever did.
  5. Fact, Blizzard made a game that is even worse than Dota.

Blizzard = Failed

League of Legends is the game I've fallen so hard for and the only game I ever did fall for. It's the best game so far and I just give you my advice... Don't copy something more than once... it will only end up as HoTS or fail hard because you can't take away all the players from one game because you make another copy of it (even if it's not exactly the same.. it is still containing and was built up just as the other games.

Extreme Troller6/2/2015, 2:32:57 PM2 votes

blizzard died since 2006. Burning crusade was their last good game. almost all the veterans of blizzard quitted/died/retired, they are replaced by noobs youngs game designers that have no clue what's a good game. starcraft 2 was only a hd version of starcraft with no new awesome feature. diablo3 release was "ok" the first 2 month, but jay wilson stoped the project and game is uber crâp since then. hearthstone, overwatch, heroes of the storm -> BIG LOL. Only peasant play their games. Riot games is not that good neither though.... League is casual noob game since 2011. but i cant say riot died, i have to wait their next mmo.

Cindikle4/9/2015, 3:25:03 AM2 votes

I thought this common knowledge?

HotS is a casual LoL.

I mean LoL can be really casual as it is. But HotS takes a lot of the thinking that LoL has and throws it out.

Raptamei3/26/2015, 1:22:19 PM1 votes

League will need to make major changes to keep up with the new reality where players demand matches of no more than 20 minutes, no overly complex item system, no 120 champions to learn, multiple maps, interesting objectives, no runes and fun and varied character kits.

League feels old next to HotS even if it has more depth, just like an old Blackberry next to the first and much less capable but easier to use iPhone. And we know how that went.

Riot should not fight this losing battle. Blizzard will win the new generation of players and thereby win the market in the long term. Riot should take its money and start working on LoL2 along the same lines as HotS but better, with more maps and continuous updates (Blizzard won't have the dedication to compete), preferably also (or mainly) on mobile devices to pre-empt the decline of desktops.

If they do this, they will demolish HotS. If they stick with the outmoded classic MOBA model and its design flaws, the best they can hope for is a slow decline.

Eleshakai3/26/2015, 12:10:15 PM1 votes

Riot doesn't have to worry about HotS, but not because it sucks. Simply because it is not in direct competition with LoL. It caters to a different audience, and will be successful for that audience.

I have absolutely no doubt that HotS once it gets going will be at least as successful as DotA. I doubt it will reach LoL levels of popularity but that's mainly because LoL's popularity is unheard of. But it will be a success since it offers a different experience catering to a different type of player than LoL or DotA do.

And that's what you need to offer if you want to be successful in as crowded a genre as MoBA has become: something unique.

Sukishoo6/5/2015, 7:59:46 PM1 votes

The game is actually good, you're just sad.

Samus Frost6/3/2015, 3:41:53 AM1 votes

Can I just toss in the fact that I've dug around through the games options to edit the resolution and have found nothing? I can't even play the game without a 4-inch black bar on the right side of my screen so everything looks like squished crap.