"Cloud9 using the same pushing strat every game"

Reynard the ƒox·Oct 4, 2015·87 votes·5,917 views

Well, duh. It wins games.

If they have another strat up their sleeve, they're not gonna reveal it until they have to.

59 Comments

Imperial RedOct 4, 201529 votes

There aren't enough bans to keep teams down in this meta. I'm perfectly fine with that.

xFrostKnightxOct 5, 20154 votes

We should up bans to 4 each for next season, before the latest 30 champions 3 bans were fine but we're at a point where there isn't enough now.

Jason the otherOct 5, 20152 votes

debatable

FistOfSharkieshaOct 5, 20152 votes

Not really debatable when 7+ champions consistently have 53+% winrate with little experience required. Nearly every juggernaut is permabanned along with Fiora and then there's the usual hypercarries like Vayne and we just don't have enough bans.

TotN TitanOct 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Not really debatable when 7+ champions consistently have 53+% winrate with little experience required. Nearly every juggernaut is permabanned along with Fiora and then there's the usual hypercarries like Vayne and we just don't have enough bans.

You don't ban Vayne. You CC lock her and destroy her at the start of a fight.

FistOfSharkieshaOct 6, 20151 votes

She tumbles and goes invisible. Repositions herself periodically while 3 hitting your teammates. Unless you have Taric on your team good luck catching a Vayne or Kalista.

Sett up 4my gankOct 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

She tumbles and goes invisible. Repositions herself periodically while 3 hitting your teammates. Unless you have Taric on your team good luck catching a Vayne or Kalista.

You or one of your 4 teamates, use your 250G perma pink ward or oracles mist and watch her tumble while locking her down?

TotN TitanOct 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

She tumbles and goes invisible. Repositions herself periodically while 3 hitting your teammates. Unless you have Taric on your team good luck catching a Vayne or Kalista.

Yep, you're exactly right. Unless you have a Taric, Ryze, Twisted Fate, Nautilus, Annie, Maokai, or anyone else with a point-click stun, you are screwed. Of course, once that point-click stun hits, then you have all the time in the world to use your skill shot stuns to keep them locked out until they're back at the fountain. It does require your team to actually think about their composition during pick/ban phase, though, so that might be where people are struggling to deal with Vayne. If you aren't selecting champions with CC, you're really not doing yourself any favors and deserve to lose.

DraqoneOct 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

We should up bans to 4 each for next season, before the latest 30 champions 3 bans were fine but we're at a point where there isn't enough now.

You don't ban from the entire champion pool, you ban stuff that can screw your champions and the amount of champions your team plays didn't change. It was, is and will be 5 champions.

xFrostKnightxOct 6, 20151 votes

You don't understand.

With more champions = More counters for any single pick.

So yes, it will always be 5 vs 5 But... If you ban 3 counters to your team, the enemy has many more choices to counter you. If the enemy bans another 3 counters to troll his own team. It's fine because there are still more counters or they can use a strong meta champion.

Veral42Oct 6, 20151 votes

I've been saying each team should get 5 bans a piece for ages. We need less "pros" who are 1-trick ponies and start forcing players to have real depth to their champion pools.

GhastlyGhoulManOct 4, 201526 votes

What I love is that they earned a Veigar ban from every team after their first game. Which essentially wastes a ban from the enemy team.

Jason the otherOct 4, 201512 votes

Mabey that was what they were going for

GhastlyGhoulManOct 4, 20155 votes

Honestly, I could almost believe that they calculated it. I wouldn't put it past them. XD

ReazaleOct 5, 20151 votes

"Yeah , we were totally going to blind pick Veigar no matter what that game, cos we are that sure about it"

GG mind games OP

BelligeraOct 4, 20152 votes

I love it.

ManwalrusOct 4, 20159 votes

No one is banning trist or Azir against them lol.

ArcheanthusOct 4, 20154 votes

{quoted}

No one is banning trist or Azir against them lol.

Of course not because like was said before, if you ban those then you leave other really strong and dangerous champs open for pick.

ManwalrusOct 4, 201512 votes

That's the reason C9 is succeeding IMO, they can get all the champs they need because the really OP champs are being banned. They're a great team, don't get me wrong but their draft is a huge part of their winning.

Jason the otherOct 5, 20151 votes

Buts its weird them banning veigar over trist and azir

lightdragoon88Oct 5, 20154 votes

That stun cage is scary.

iamleburkOct 6, 20151 votes

Honestly i think from red side banning veigar is a blunder. Ban the tristana, or better yet, ban the Darius that is making their seige comp so untouchable. Veigar can be counter picked just like every other champion at this tournament that isn't named Lulu. Assuming you leave veigar up and they pick (which they probably wont if Azir is open), then you run a comp with people who can dive him easily.

GixiaOct 8, 20151 votes

Ironically, in the one game where C9 actually played Veigar, AHQ DID pick someone who should have been a counter to him (Fizz). Did not help them.

C9 Scott Free Oct 8, 20151 votes

I still believe saying any AP champ can counter Veigar is absurd because he scales off of how well he and the enemy mage are doing.

BelligeraOct 4, 20152 votes

Lmao when Fnatic left Azir open I was like "YOU FOOLS"

WolfeurOct 5, 20152 votes

What if they pick them before C9 does?

KinjishiOct 5, 20151 votes

This would be interesting. If an opposing team tries to copy their seige tactic and use it against them.

WolfeurOct 5, 20152 votes

I'm use Fnatic could. Rekkles' Trist is awesome and so is Febiven's Azir. Not sure about Huni on Darius, though, seeing what happened against AHQ.

With Yellowstar's calls, they'll have godly rotations.

IdenkitekiOct 6, 20151 votes

The thing is that they can only get one or C9 would let them have both with something up their sleeves. There is also the top pick of Morgs black shield, Dairus, GP. Then you have sneaky's massive Champion pool for adcs. They might even switch from a seige comp to get a fighting comp.

WolfeurOct 6, 20151 votes

If Fnatic takes Azir or Trist, the comp won't be doable, then Fnatic takes what they like and C9 will have to manage Fnatic without their comp.

T RexHasTinyArmsOct 4, 20157 votes

Yeah, kind of like many people assume EDG didn't show everything they have in the SKT game given that they are probably thinking they will try to meet SKT in the finals. Why would C9 show more than they have to in groups? Especially when they're taking enough games to be in first.

WisnicOct 5, 20154 votes

Do you think the casters said this as a negative? Because you're certainly framing it that way.

The reason the casters point this out is because they want to foreshadow future matches and how they may play out now that teams are VERY clearly seeing a strat that c9 is incredibly proficient with. The casters aren't saying this to belittle c9, they are saying this to open up the discussion of future matches and how the draft may go in future matches.

Reynard the ƒoxOct 5, 20153 votes

They are painting Cloud9 as a one-trick pony and I don't appreciate it.

WisnicOct 5, 20155 votes

I really don't think that's true at all. Most of the times the casters discussed that c9 was "only" doing this strat, they immediately followed up the discussion with the fact that they are going to want to see what comes next.

The reason the casters say these things is because it's currently the only storyline for c9. They've drafted and played the same team comp for 3 games. The only reasonable place to take the discussion is, what's going to happen when they don't have the team comp? I haven't heard a caster shit on c9 and say "Oh if they don't get this comp, they are going to lose." Caster's talk about this stuff because outside of what may happen in the future, there isn't much to talk about the team comp since they've already discussed it several times.

Personally, I don't think that c9 is a one trick pony and I don't think the casters do either. They just veer the discussion into a what if scenario since the play that c9 does has been similar across all 3 games and is fairly straightforward.

ReazaleOct 5, 20152 votes

It may probably be that but man it does feel like they are throwing shit at them and making it look like their victorys are more on their enemys than on themselves.

Thats how they make me feel, thats my opinion.

LeeDarkOct 5, 20152 votes

The casters were very clearly belittling Cloud9. It wasn't just that one comment. They insisted that Pentadunk Balls essentially isn't a pro-caliber player. They harped on how Hai, as good a shotcaller as he is, is a bad jungler. It was almost as if, everytime they had to mention Cloud9's 3-0 record in the group stages so far, they did so begrudgingly, like they all lost money on DraftKings because of it.

LuggOct 4, 20153 votes

Anyone who said that has evidently never watched many C9 games.

Jason the otherOct 5, 20153 votes

"THIS ISNT EVEN THERE FINAL FORM" -Jason the other

bradOct 4, 20152 votes

man honestly i just mute the analysts like sure its cool to hear their opinions but sometimes they just say the most stupid shit and are more often than not completely wrong in their predictions

Jason the otherOct 4, 20152 votes

"Fanatic is a better team overall compared to Cloud 9" -_- <.....

RhytoOct 4, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jason the other,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=RfLUO5Zw,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2015-10-04T20:17:11.028+0000)

"Fanatic is a better team overall compared to Cloud 9" -_- <.....

Definitely debatable but recently their play style has radically changed in which has weakened their performance in the end. :/

LeeDarkOct 5, 20151 votes

Well, they really were. Fnatic had better teamfights, several of them, and were solidly in the lead, even after Cloud9 had a good start. Cloud9 got the win off the ONE teamfight that actually went their way; and not to take away from that, because they engineered that one teamfight perfectly.

The Cup only cares about one stat in the end: the win.

WolfeurOct 5, 20152 votes

Fnatic had a poor draft, it was clearly a mistake. But beyond that, they are better overall.

ReazaleOct 5, 20151 votes

They got Pentaed like bronzies :P

l2 macro :D

But yeah , overall up to before the winning team fight, fanatic had been superior but then got crushed.

WolfeurOct 5, 20152 votes

Darius is THE pentakill machine, to be fair. But they got countered in draft, by themselves furthermore...

AsherchuckOct 5, 20152 votes

they havent even brought out their ultimate pick yet, amumu

DemacryOct 5, 20151 votes

Even if Azir/Trist gets banned they'll probably just fall back to Viktor/Jinx (assuming Vieg ban).

Personally I really want to see the Ashe/Zyra bot again. I miss those games.

KoKobotoOct 5, 20151 votes

They also talk a lot about other "higher level" teams holding back until finals a lot so C9 probably doin the same yoo

IdenkitekiOct 6, 20151 votes

They have to think of a different pick. Because Trist will most likely be banned, Azir, and Darius or GP. And if not banned it will be prioritized: Azir and Trist. What do you guys think Sneaky will play and do you think Incarnation will go back unto the Veigar?

Kal Vas FlamOct 8, 20151 votes

The basic rule in any competitive game is to use the strat that works until someone beats it or breaks it. That's just common sense shit really. If their strategy starts to fall off they will pick a new one. The real question though is how long will it take for them recognize it as a failing strategy - that seems to be the biggest problems teams have. Sometimes teams will keep trying to breath life into something that just doesn't work anymore (see TSM).