Question, re: Worlds format

HeeroTX··1 votes·363 views

I admit I'm disappointed with NA performance, but frankly TSM and IMT didn't deserve to go through with how those games went. That out of the way, I gotta ask: Why the HELL are World formatted this way?!?

To be more precise, why isn't worlds setup so (for example) all the #1 seeds from each region (and maybe 1 "wild card" team if you want to get the non-majors in) have an automatic seed in the Knock-out stage. And then everyone else uses Groups as a "play-in"? If you keep 8 in the knock-outs, then you have 5 or 6 "set" teams and 2-3 variable depending on how things go. Even if you want to argue that that just means you have 5 teams + 3 Korean teams, that's EXACTLY what we have now. At least if you seed the #1s through automatically you have each region represented in the knockout stage.

I mean, honestly I don't see why they don't just do it like "March Madness" and bracket everyone all the way down, but if we're assuming that'd take too long, at least if they gave the #1s a "bye" you could have a solid tourney from knockouts on, rather than most people checking out after groups.

9 Comments

Late For Tea1 votes

What is this format going to improve over the current format? This is basically just an extended version of MSI.

Only the #1 seed of the LCK mate it to the knockout stage, while those of the LPL, LMS, NA and EU dropped. The group stages are there so only the strongest teams advance, that does not automatically mean the #1 seed of a region as has been shown this Worlds. Those teams didn't do enough to make it out of groups, they shouldn't be given a free pass just because they won play-offs in their home region.

HeeroTX1 votes
  1. If it's "worlds" it seems like it should be the best team from each region (like the World Cup) rather than "several teams from each region". If the #1 team isn't actually the "best" team in each region, then maybe Riot needs to look at how they figure the best team.

  2. Others may disagree, but I personally HATE the pseudo-Bo1 Round Robin format. It's kludgey and dumb. That's why knockouts is Bo3. So I'm saying at least give the #1 for each region a Bo3. Give them time to really play a team and make adjustments rather than the whiplash style frantic game setup of the group stage.

  3. Again, The #1s are a lock, but if you have 5 or 6 #1s, you can still have a few teams that make it through groups as a "play-in". So it's not a set "only 1 LCK team" theoretically you'd still have extra LCKs (because one would assume Korea will win the play-ins) but all the other regions would have a team in the knockout stage. But depending on how many teams you want in knockouts, it'll vary.

Honestly, I'd be fine with 16 teams in "knockouts" playing Bo3s down to the end, but it seems like Riot feels that's too many games or something. If I had my choice, what was "play-ins" this year would merge with "groups" and instead of #3s and wild card regions, you'd have #2s and 3s plus wild card regions, as one big play-in/group stage. Leading to the knockout stage against the #1s.

Slappybiscuit2 votes

OMG i know right, i mean its like we know TSM is the best team in the tournament and should be advancing and the only reason they are not is because they didnt win the games they needed to win and thats not fair at all. TSM is the best in the World, and they have the best players in the world. They shouldn't be punished just because of poor drafting, poor strategy, terrible decision making, or poor in-game performance.

What is this bo1 garbage everyone else had to play? TSM is the best bo5 team in the world and they didnt even get a chance to prove it because of stupid rules like needing to win more games than the opponents. It's not TSM's fault they are slow to adapt. TSM had the easiest group this year and they still couldn't make it out, clearly there is a problem with the format and not TSM.

All #1 seeds should automatically be in knockouts, nevermind that NA didnt even have a #1 seed this year since they shit the bed during MSI. Once it was determined TSM was NA top team they should have been sent to knockouts. In fact it doesnt matter if any other NA team goes to worlds at that point, why should TSM be punished because they are a part of their region? It doesn't make any sense.

An NA team made it out of groups and TSM was NA's top seed, they should take their place. TSM is a part of the region and thats all that matters. Why should another NA team go to the knockout stage while TSM sits on the sideline? Its not fair. Why even play the lcs season if other teams who didnt win the split, can play better when it counts and advance? It's stupid.

The tie-breaking rules are ridiculous! Why did TSM have to play MSF a second time that day? They already proved they were better by besting them earlier that day, week 1 doesnt matter, only week 2 should have mattered. And look TSM beat everyone in their group! What more do you want from them? Whats the point of playing week 1 if you are going to use week 2 results? After week 1 TSM was tied for first, they won most of their first games why should they have to play more? It should just be bo1 and be done with it. TSM advances and the team that beat them (that game shouldnt have counted anyway)

Everyone else should play bo1 except TSM who should get bo3. Thats only fair. (Okay fine, let some other regions have a team to play bo3 also to hide the fact that TSM isnt the only team to get this advantage, i mean competitive integrity. But only if it benefits them otherwise this is a bad idea too and the idea that helps TSM the most is the right idea they should do)

This is what you sound like.

MysterQ2 votes

TSM should also be allowed to choose their first knockout opponent. It is a courtesy to being number1 in their region. I mean they are ALWAYS number1, that is more consistent than SKT. So number1 should definitely get to pick their opponent.

Ale non è male1 votes

They used to do this in S2 and S3 Worlds actually. NA lost both times in quarterfinals (even though it was a close series in S3 between C9 and FNC). It didn't really made sense, though. Speaking about S3, where the 4 teams that received the bye were based on All-Star performance, Gamania Bears, Taiwan #1 seed (LMS progenitor, the region of the S2 Worlds Winner TPA) was really bad, worse than Samsung Galaxy or Lemondogs that finished 3rd in their groups (Samsung losing a tie-breaker vs Gambit and not advancing despite being KR) and they got stomped in QF by SKT, exiting Worlds in 2 games (Gamania became then the core of aHQ) In Season 2, they went by draw to put one of the #1 major region in group stage (they gave 4 teams a bye to QF), and they dropped Azubu Frost to Group Stage that stomped TSM in QF (TSM exited Worlds in 2 games), while WE lost vs CLG.EU (that placed 2nd in the group stage behind Najin that got stomped by TPA XD )

HeeroTX1 votes

For one, I would totally believe they needed to pad out the teams in the early seasons simply because of number of teams/regions playing. Now they have the opposite problem if you look at all the wildcard regions. If we assume that all non-Korea regions are auto worse than Korea (as the stats say) then why do we even have Worlds? Just look at the Korean champ as the equivalent of the EPL champ and the rest of the regions as the lower divisions of British soccer. (or Korea = FBS, other regions = FCS of US college football)

The current format just means all the other regions are "coin flip" for representatives because LoL is basically: Korea > Everyone else, and generally speaking, all the other regions are on-par with one another. (if you take Korea out, I'll bet EVERY other region would at least BELIEVE they have a shot, whether realistic or not) So if you put the #1s through to the knockouts, we can see for real how they go. I don't think it's a problem to note that you have say a FW this year that'll get stomped on knockout, simply because you ALWAYS have one or more teams that get stomped on knockouts ANYWAY. At least this way all the regions have someone to root for in knockouts.

Ale non è male1 votes

{quoted}

The current format just means all the other regions are "coin flip" for representatives because LoL is basically: Korea > Everyone else, and generally speaking, all the other regions are on-par with one another. (if you take Korea out, I'll bet EVERY other region would at least BELIEVE they have a shot, whether realistic or not) So if you put the #1s through to the knockouts, we can see for real how they go. I don't think it's a problem to note that you have say a FW this year that'll get stomped on knockout, simply because you ALWAYS have one or more teams that get stomped on knockouts ANYWAY. At least this way all the regions have someone to root for in knockouts.

NO, you are going to have teams that do not deserve to be there going straight into QF, taking away spots that other teams could have deserved And regions being underrepresented in knockouts is a minor issue in recent season This season, 4 regions out of the 5 major ones had a team to cheer for, and two region had a chance a chance to get in through their final game (if ahQ won vs C9 they would have been in, GAM even got to the final tie-breaker of Group B) Last season 5 regions were represented in knockouts thanks to Albus Nox Luna S5 Worlds you had 4 major regions represented in knockouts

The fact that then Korea beats all (with CN and EU going #2 and #3, and the other follwoing behind), is nothing you can change with format changes

P.S. On a completely unrelated role, I never understood why LMS and GPL got splitted in 2015. Imagine how stronger they would be right now if teams like GAM and another pair of GPL teams replace the bottom LMS teams

MysterQ1 votes

LOL because then TSFlop would be in and embarrass us again.

MysterQ1 votes

For real, TSM would flop even harder. The Group stages are the warmup, TSM would have no warmup and be thrown in vs a good team.

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