What this freaking toxic community needs

HeeroTX·Jun 13, 2018·9 votes·3,746 views

Riot, add a feature to report in PRE-GAME lobby. And then if a player gets 3+ reports (grouped players only count as 1, to prevent the "won't someone please think of the children" abuses cases we always hear about) then you can dodge without penalty. It's bs that I've gotta take a penalty or sit through a garbage game (and lose LP if ranked) simply because some kid thinks its funny to ban my champ and play Soraka top because sup was gonna play Soraka.

Either give us tools to play around all the damn trolls in your game or: DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE DAMN TROLLS IN YOUR GAME

13 Comments

RiotBazerkaJun 13, 201810 votes

I definitely hear you on that, I would push back in saying that there is already a lot happening in the pregame screen. I've mistakenly locked the wrong runes more times than I care to admit. Adding a pre game report structure might be another "too much" thing? Idk, but that would be my initial thought.

The other part is the grey area of "troll". Where does one draw the line between exploration & trolling? Obviously there is a massive difference if that person is overtly toxic, but outside of that how do you tell? When Ezreal jungle was a thing many people were calling it troll until it started working. Same with Malz support and Soraka top. That grey area is what makes "deal with trolls" so hard. I agree we should try and do something, but I don't think hard banning or dodging is the answer. Personally, I think features and systems like Clash that are hyper competitive and meant to be a serious thing will do more to deter trolls than anything else. The place where (IMO) ranked missed the mark was that it fails to attach strong rewards to success in those ques. Rewards btw dont mean $$ or RP, but can also be social rewards like not getting yelled at by your friends to trolling in Clash. Theres a reason why so few people cheat at Magic the Gathering and its because they have to live down the scorn of their fellow players. IMO if we can get there, we are living in a better world.

ZeydJun 13, 20184 votes

{quoted}

I definitely hear you on that, I would push back in saying that there is already a lot happening in the pregame screen. I've mistakenly locked the wrong runes more times than I care to admit. Adding a pre game report structure might be another "too much" thing? Idk, but that would be my initial thought.

The other part is the grey area of "troll". Where does one draw the line between exploration & trolling? Obviously there is a massive difference if that person is overtly toxic, but outside of that how do you tell? When Ezreal jungle was a thing many people were calling it troll until it started working. Same with Malz support and Soraka top. That grey area is what makes "deal with trolls" so hard. I agree we should try and do something, but I don't think hard banning or dodging is the answer. Personally, I think features and systems like Clash that are hyper competitive and meant to be a serious thing will do more to deter trolls than anything else. The place where (IMO) ranked missed the mark was that it fails to attach strong rewards to success in those ques. Rewards btw dont mean $$ or RP, but can also be social rewards like not getting yelled at by your friends to trolling in Clash. Theres a reason why so few people cheat at Magic the Gathering and its because they have to live down the scorn of their fellow players. IMO if we can get there, we are living in a better world.

I gotta be honest, I don't know if we will ever get there when NA upholds a community that actively rewards literal trolling and inting all in the name of obtaining you tube highlights.

JarringJun 13, 20182 votes

MTG is face to face. It's a lot different than an anonymous online service. I think there's always going to be some amount of troll on the internet. I don't think complete reformation is possible in the long-haul, but I do think it is somewhat feasible to limit it by restrictions and bans. I think with the way it's set up now, it does help by a lot, but there are still some major flaws to it. From what I understand of the internet, it keeps their websites clean by restrictions and bans. Idk what I could suggest to help, I'm just adding my two-cents.

OnIy LeonaJun 13, 20181 votes

how about a checkbox option to mute everyone, even in champ lobby. that way you dont have to do it in game too, and it mutes pings too.. pings are used mostly as toxic now lately, all the question mark pings when you miss a skillshot or mess up.

HeeroTXJun 13, 20181 votes

First, thank you very much for replying, I honestly appreciate getting a response from a Red.

Second, my suggestion in theory provides "good" experience for the reporting player rather than "bad" experience for the reported player. This is my thought. If the majority of players all report 1 player in pregame as "toxic" then they all get to re-queue for a new game. No harm, no foul. The "troll" also queues for a new game. This allows the majority to move on quickly and ENJOY the game and EVENTUALLY the troll should lose interest or at worst only adds say a minute delay to each lobby he joins. If people want to cry about the "abuse" case, then in a "worst" case yes, people can use this to dodge an off-meta pick that they don't like, BUT I would suggest this is ALSO better in the long run since the alternative is that they'll be "forced" to play that game and I'd bet at least 50% of the time will flame the off-meta person (leading to MORE toxicity in the game).

Here's the problem, the game is INTENTIONALLY tuned for team-play. The rank system is intentionally configured to only reward TEAM achievements (rather than individual achievements) and the whole system is designed to only reward you for working WITH your team. This is good in that a well designed strategy game SHOULD revolve around a cohesive team. The PROBLEM is that if you're not going to PUNISH people who clearly get their jollies from sabotaging the team. (they don't care about the "rewards" of proper play) then the WHOLE experience is destroyed for people that want to play the game. This means EITHER there needs to be an "automated" solution that (yes) allows for bad actors to abuse it, but the benefit will be there for players who want to work TOGETHER. (no offense, I'm mostly fine with whatever non-standard pick anyone wants to do, my own main isn't "meta" right now, but if you want to play YOUR choice pick, then you're also putting your preference above the "team") Or else, you (Riot) need to put more effort into MANUALLY policing trolls/toxicity, because yes, the only real "solution" is to have human people respond to complaints because players of a game that is designed to get us to find the optimal solution will find ways to "game" any detection algorithm.

TLDR; Please either give us more control of our team in this TEAM game, or else give us better rewards/goals for the individual, because currently the bad actors have too much control to sabotage the player experience.

UnboundHadesJun 13, 20183 votes

"it seems like you are playing something off meta and it works for you, but to us its trolling so bye"

HeeroTXJun 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

"it seems like you are playing something off meta and it works for you, but to us its trolling so bye"

No, dude LITERALLY banned my pick and picked the support choice simply because support also questioned why he banned my pick. I was hovering Tristana because she's my main, -ban- (I was 2nd pick, top was 1st pick) then on first pick picks Soraka for top lane.

UnboundHadesJun 13, 20181 votes

that wasnt referring to your game its whats gonna happen to half the people that play off meta in ranked if this ever became a thing

HeeroTXJun 13, 20181 votes

Then Riot needs to get off their ass and hire hundreds of "GMs" to police their damn game. I'm sick of catering to trolls because other players are a different breed of asshole. Or at least bring back team builder or something. But it's bullshit that I get forced to sit on my hands because some idiot thinks its fun to ruin games or is willing to play chicken because they got autofilled or whatever other reason they do it.

AptestJun 13, 20181 votes

to be fair with you, I think that this would primarily be a harassment vector. Why do people troll and harass in champion select? mainly to contest a role, or to force a dodge by someone else. So they would use this feature without justification for that purpose also.

Ale non è maleJun 13, 20181 votes

At end of the game did you get 6+ reports for the guy (4 from your team, a pair from reasonable enemy team), o did you dodge?

People need to stand united and work together to punish these people, instead of letting these kind of behaviours go because the game result or ending up reporting guys who actually ask for the punishment and end up having a bad score because of people penalized by trolls

Pre-game lobby report is doable as feature, imho, but the real problem of honor and report system is the community made by a bunch of people not caring or being pretty much stupid and not catching these obvious bad people with the systems yet in place

EyesOfTheFoxJun 13, 20181 votes

I can say with all honesty that I have personally banned champions that a player has declared (only in ranked play though). I do this for one of 3 reasons 1) The champion is trash in the current meta 2) The champion is trash for that specific role 3) I don't want the enemy to have that pick (ie you are last pick and plan to play Yi, yeah good luck with that). I don't do this all the time, only when I feel that if I DON'T ban that champion we will guarantee lose. I have actually had some people stay in lobby and pick something more relevant to the team comp after that and we win. It's when people get mad and choose to punish us for making a ban choice that things get sour. This is why I never declare a pick. I can often times tell just by what people are planning to pick whether or not we will win. And most of the time people don't care about team comp they are dead set on their planned pick regardless. Riot gives me a ban to use how I see fit. And that is how I see fit to use it. I'm not being toxic or trying to piss you off, nor trying to be funny, I'm trying to do what I feel gives the team a better chance to win (yes I know you think being able to pick your one trick will win us the game, but that is a very conceited and quite frankly, blind way of looking at the game).

On a side note, I wish ban phase in ranked was similar to LCS. Being able to see the bans, and NOT have duplicate bans could add more strategy to the game and actually make us randos feel like a team. Give us time to talk strat, open up for more counters. Overall a more competitive game imo.

HeeroTXJun 13, 20181 votes

For the record, I'm not really bothered by using your bans for those reasons. I try not to ban my team picks BECAUSE it makes people turn toxic (which I feel is WORSE than "weak" champs in low elo) but I have done it rarely when the person is last pick and they want a champ like Yasuo or something that is OP if our team isn't gonna swap picks. I was angry that the player banned my champ, but I COULD have accepted it, but THEN he PICKED the Support's champ (and Soraka is NOT a good top pick, at least certainly not in current META) which says to me that person was trolling, period. What is the point of me picking a "good team choice" after that?