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Svenskeren is holding TSM back.

ScriptBrand··8 votes·2,135 views

Bro has got to go. Ruining my team. I'll even take wardtorin over sven

28 Comments

Shadòw2 votes

always blame the jungler

JavelinJoe1 votes

But it is mostly his fault this time around

Keylight XD1 votes

my thought too, or find a way to step up his game and get back to form. The dude was diving the backline and died like 500 times in game two.

Miror B1 votes

See, I'd just like to see them replace their entire top-half. Get rid of hauntzer/sven, potentially replace them with some of the upcoming UFA's (impact/meteos potentially being the best two factoring in import slots), and fill the upcoming mandatory academy team with the likes of tarzaned/painless. While many people instantly point at sven for all of TSM's problems (even more now that scape-goat-turtle is on flyquest), Hauntzer looks to be an enabler for many of these as he at best goes even with international competition and makes almost as many mental-gaffes as sven (many of them leading to sven dying).

NoPaxt1 votes

Hauntzer and Biofrost are their best players...

Everyone else can go!

Miror B1 votes

Even bjerg?

Virgin Ray1 votes

I'd say hauntzer and sven are doing bad, biofrost is okay, dlift is doing bad, and bjerg is okay

EDIT: though i kinda understand that doubelift is still getting back into lcs playstyle, so i'll give him like 3 more games

NoPaxt1 votes

bjerg isn't the catalyst, just reaps the benefit of another members good play...

Miror B1 votes

See, I'd tend to disagree on that. Bjerg is the area of consistency on a team that is often heavily inconsistent. While he doesn't absolutely dominate lane constantly, he also rarely loses it outside of international games (which if we're going to be honest, NA mids tend to do quite poorly there regardless). I guess the bigger question is who would be a viable option to replace bjerg with, as while I already stated that Impact/Meteos are by far better than hauntzer/sven (both being upcoming UFA's), replacing bjerg is a tiny bit more difficult as Exileh looks to be the only free agent with the potential to be better than him.

Maszii1 votes

Exileh lmao. He's bad. You can't go from number 1 mid in NA and maybe even West to Number 4/5 in EU. I just think its very funny how Sven went from godlike at Worlds 2016 to now being everyone's scapegoat.

Ale non è male1 votes

{quoted}

Exileh lmao. He's bad. You can't go from number 1 mid in NA and maybe even West to Number 4/5 in EU. I just think its very funny how Sven went from godlike at Worlds 2016 to now being everyone's scapegoat.

Bjergsen number 1 mid in the West is laughable How many more times he has to be beaten at international level before just accept that Bjergsen isn't automatically numer 1 mid i the West (and I'm not saying he is bad, but quite honestly when it was the last time he has shown up trhoughout an enitre tournament that wasn't NA LCS?) ?

PerkZ is clearly number 1 mid in the West right now, and all the EU mids that are fighting with him are closer to number 1 than what bjergsen is...heck, exileh crushed Bjergsen the last time they face each other

TSM can't probably replace Bjergsen now, but they have to start to think about how can they make a better team around him, because the current set-up hasn't worked, and when they tried to go with a set-up on which shotcalling should have shifted to other roles (YS experiment, even though they acquired YS when he was yet over the hill and a liability mechanically wise), Bjergsen and the team just rejected it

Maszii1 votes

That's why i said maybe. Bjerg did fine at Worlds 2k16 aswell as MSI. I can agree with Perkz number 1 and i can make a case for Caps/Febiven as well as for Jensen. But Exile is just average.

BigBellBrute1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=HpOjR5EF,comment-id=0001000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-11T16:49:54.111+0000)

Bjergsen number 1 mid in the West is laughable How many more times he has to be beaten at international level before just accept that Bjergsen isn't automatically numer 1 mid i the West (and I'm not saying he is bad, but quite honestly when it was the last time he has shown up trhoughout an enitre tournament that wasn't NA LCS?) ?

PerkZ is clearly number 1 mid in the West right now, and all the EU mids that are fighting with him are closer to number 1 than what bjergsen is...heck, exileh crushed Bjergsen the last time they face each other

TSM can't probably replace Bjergsen now, but they have to start to think about how can they make a better team around him, because the current set-up hasn't worked, and when they tried to go with a set-up on which shotcalling should have shifted to other roles (YS experiment, even though they acquired YS when he was yet over the hill and a liability mechanically wise), Bjergsen and the team just rejected it

And yet Bjerg beat perkz at MSI 5-0-12 in their first game, compared to 3-4-2 and in the second game, they staiemated 3-1-5 vs 3-1-4.

Ale non è male1 votes

{quoted}

And yet Bjerg beat perkz at MSI 5-0-12 in their first game, compared to 3-4-2 and in the second game, they staiemated 3-1-5 vs 3-1-4.

And yet TSM goes out after wasting lead in game 2 and almost wasting lead in game 1, so it is does not look good when your midlaner is so fed that TSm almost lost that game 1, I guess

Miror B1 votes

Yeah, the word I used is "potential". While Bjerg has 3 and a half years of lcs experience over him, if Exileh can bring a team like UOL to worlds with him (with what is essentially b-tier EU talent) then I'd easily rank him above bjerg.

For me, I personally find it funnier how turtle was considered a "shite adc" and was the scapegoat for many TSM fans, yet as it stands right now we could see TSM finish summer with a worse overall record despite having (according to what most people thought) a better team.

Ale non è male1 votes

{quoted}

if Exileh can bring a team like UOL to worlds with him (with what is essentially b-tier EU talent) then I'd easily rank him above bjerg.

LMAO at that That's an idiotic statement, dude, Exileh is the worst UOL player when compared to the competition in his role in EU and in the West (alongside Samux) Csacsi is top2 toplaner in EU, Hylissang is top 2 support, Xerxe is likely top 3 jungler Exileh? He is not surefire top 3 midlaner. There are arguments to put him at top 3, but there are strong arguments as well to put him as low as 5th or even 6th as well

Miror B1 votes

Wait, Hylli is a top-2 support now? If you're going to try to suggest that my statements are idiotic, it'd be nice to have some actual proof of that instead of pulling stuff out of your ass. 2017 spring he finished 6th in KDA and had the 3rd-lowest warding totals of all EU supports, 2016 summer he finished 8th in KDA and had the 4th-lowest warding totals of all supports (the two lower KDA supports playing for 0-35-igen). To suggest he is anything beyond mid to low tier for EU is kinda cute, especially now after he came off of a split in which he led all supports in total deaths.

If we're looking at EU, the arguments for putting him as a top-3 mid tend to weigh heavier than the arguments against. 2017 spring he had the most kills period in EU (he had 166, with Febi finishing 2nd at 142 despite having a far more aggressive jg), he's already won an international event (IEM oakland, in which he was named MVP as well), and if we're factoring in age as well he still has a ton of time to actively improve. While I'm not going to entirely suggest that he's going to be the next jensen/bjerg, I will say that him having a decent summer could make him a highly-sought after free agent for both EU and NA teams.

Ale non è male1 votes

{quoted}

Wait, Hylli is a top-2 support now? If you're going to try to suggest that my statements are idiotic, it'd be nice to have some actual proof of that instead of pulling stuff out of your ass.

...

To suggest he is anything beyond mid to low tier for EU is kinda cute, especially now after he came off of a split in which he led all supports in total deaths.

Yeah, because getting top 2 with a non super talented rookie ADC at LCS level(Samux had play in LCS as top laner) is clearly a sign of Hylissang being low tier /s

The guy made freaking Vardags looking like not complete shit, and was one of the two supports making Steelback being ever successful (the other being season 5 YS with season 5 Fnatic), and made Veritas look decent when he has actually failed to qualify for LCK in Spring after he left UOL, but he is obviously mid to low tier /s

There is a reason why all UOL rosters in all these splits have been successful despite only him and Csacsi being the longstanding members. The guy is a playmaker, so he is obviously going to try a lot and die when he inevitably fails at times, but when the team end the Split at 2nd Place, it has been overall worth and no way you'd get those results if you had a low tier playmaker.

Asking you a question, Who was a top support in Spring, if Hyli was mid to low tier? In Spring, aside arguably mithy (that was mediocre mechanically and looked like got carried by Zven though), who was better? Ignar had a great start and was an MVP worthy caliber for the first half of the Split, then he was really bad in second half and throughout playoff. Chei was a Jack-of-all, master of none trades throughout the whole season, and while he was undoubtely good and had very good stats across the board, he wasn't as important for his team success as the guy mentioned. Mikyx was decent but Splyce had a meh Split and their bot lane was good but not dominant by any measure Without speaking of the others, Spring Split Jesiz and Wadid which were decent only towards the end? Face-checking Hachani? Hustlin or peke support?

If we're looking at EU, the arguments for putting him as a top-3 mid tend to weigh heavier than the arguments against. 2017 spring he had the most kills period in EU (he had 166, with Febi finishing 2nd at 142 despite having a far more aggressive jg), he's already won an international event (IEM oakland, in which he was named MVP as well), and if we're factoring in age as well he still has a ton of time to actively improve. While I'm not going to entirely suggest that he's going to be the next jensen/bjerg, I will say that him having a decent summer could make him a highly-sought after free agent for both EU and NA teams.

Exileh has a bad laning phase because of not being as good as the other top tier EU LCS mids in CSing and because he get solo killed too often for his greed. I am not saying Exileh is bad, I have considered Exileh top 3 last split, because Caps inexperience and Febi/PoE inconsistency, but I can see how this Split with Caps improving, and Febi getting more consistent he could be pushed down the standings...he is obviously overall very very good because EU mids are still good overall across the LCS, but when you do role by role comparison in role ranking, Exlieh compared to his competition is one of the lowest in the standings compared to Csacsi vs EU top, Xerxe vs EU junglers and Hyli vs EU supports

Maszii1 votes

But the thing is that Exileh aint carrying UoL, its Hyli/Czacsi. And Samux stepping up in Summer right now. He just got put in the dumpster so hard by Febiven and thats not the first time this split or last split. Well Turtle was obv a problem. We jus have to see in 2 more weeks if they can gell with DL or if he's really bad right now. Sven having issues aswell and Hauntzer nog having any impact wont help aswell.

xJLx MCHammer1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stark of Wrath,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=HpOjR5EF,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-06-10T22:30:35.597+0000)

Hauntzer and Biofrost are their best players...

Everyone else can go!

LOL Hauntzer? HAsn't carried since last split

NoPaxt1 votes

Hard to carry when you get focused because DL is trash...

Kilotz1 votes

Agreed, pretty well done with Throwskeren

III BAKURYU III 1 votes

Svens' early invading and overall aggressiveness tends to land him and TSM in hot water early in games and often.
If Hauntzer and Sven can play tanky champions that can soak up more than 1 attack before falling over and dying constantly TSM would be better for it. For reasons Knowing TSM has always been that 40 min last teamfight team in the teams' history and knowing just how powerful TSM are lategame - I just don't get why they put Hauntzer on an aggressive - early game champion that gets so weak late game with overall bad communication against the likes of Ssumday who's the best top and most likely early MVP winner this split. Sven needing to invade 24/7 and having a bad reputation for doing so in his career dying I believe the most of all time in EU or NA combined.
Bjergsen won't ever be aggressive until it's 1v5 in TSM's favor, he won't engage or start any fights, even if TSM shields him like some bubble boy from John Travolta movie he still won't do anything.
D-Lift has always focused on CS more than anything in his career and has always been out of position, for such an "improvement" and having a rep for being the best ADC in NA he has the longer history of being out of position and being mediocre in his career than the previous TSM ADCs in the past. Gets all the farm and resources as usual even back in his CLG "Protect and give everything to him 370+ cs per game when the average CS for any carry was at like 280 and still failed in doing much of anything.

  • And whats up with players using heal for no reason ? Everyone has over 80-90% HP and not even in a fight and they use heal ? Seen it in like every game so far today ?
Walmart Porn1 votes

Bench sven, get meteos : profit???

ScriptBrand1 votes

getting meteos is always profit

Ale non è male1 votes

Very bad vision game, and map movements is holding TSM back

Look for example at all those Sven deaths in game 3 in this DIG series, in almost everyone of them it was only few units away from some other members of the team, and if he played/moved better just someone else would have died in its place, so it is a general problem in how TSM play the vision game and move around the map

I mean:

  • 1st death is Hauntzer completely botching the dive on Fiora, and even worse with ShrimP top side around to punish TSM while not being seen because Hauntzer had estabilished terrible vision on the river bush (Sven took the long way from the tribush near the tower through according to the cal so he couldn't have provided the vision for that dive spotting Shrimp from the river busg) and Sven dying on the continuation of the play (he could have played better or avoided the death if he turned back earlier but he didn't had the worse mistake there on the play)
  • 3rd death Sven/Bio get spotted out togehter on the same spot while on vision/roaming duty and caught out and the reason why he died rather than Bio is just because of Dig focus, with Biofrost probably doing even a worse job in not providing vsion and getting caught since, well, he is the support and has the wards there to use
  • 4th death is whole TSM getting outrotated and beaten hard on vision around Herald after TSM theirself got an advantage taking down mid tower by not setting up any decent vision (Sven didn't play it well because he can't dodge for sh*t in that situation but he can't be in a much different position if TSM want to contest there)
  • 5th death Bio/Sven/Double get spotted all together by a ward after doing a bad job in clearing vision around baron, and get sniped by Ashe arrow while being basically on the same spot as Double ,and there even if Sven somehow is able to dodge, Doublelift gets caught, so again it is barely a coincidence that he is the one dying because he was the one ahead among the two walking basically on the same path
  • 7th death all TSM try to desperately fight at Elder and lose the 5vs5, and heck that play Bio missied pretty bad the Bard ulti in the set-up of the play on LOD (thaty dodged by just walking out of it) and Hauntzer is the one caught by Zyra root when TSM try to close the distance on dragon pit to fight so he get no fault

Out of 7 death, he misplayed badly on the 2nd one where he walked the wrong way to join the teamfight and get punished for it (ironically TSM won that fight), and misplayed just slightly on the 6th one where he tries to clear DIG vision in their blue jungle but get sniped by an almost point blank Ashe arrow from the dark while he had just spotted a ward on his red trinket and had no time to react (bad positioning but still someone has to try to do that)

He is the guy that is going to be blamed for playing bad, and yeah he is playing bad, but the way TSM is playing a lot of junglers would look very bad, because those same plays when he died another jungler or another TSM member would have died

13900 Essence1 votes

That is how I thought about Xmithie for CLG. But now that he has left he magically got better.

Not that it is much of an issue right now, they are 3-0 with dardoch.

ModFrom The Cosmos1 votes

Sven does have a tendency to get caught a lot in the enemy jungle. His mechanics are good, just lacks decision making on when it's appropriate to invade.

I think once TSM can clear up that communication and have Bjerg or Hauntzer push the waves in so that the enemy laners can't back up their jungler, it'll get better. But we'll just have to see on that one.

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