Hai's departure

TheSequelsRBad·Apr 23, 2015·35 votes·4,304 views

So Hai is leaving. And while I am very sad that my probably favorite pro player is stepping down, I hope that C9 can bounce back stronger than ever from their first roster swap r. But I am slightly worried that with Hai gone, C9 as we know it will also go.

And I also wish hai, who was in his prime in my opinion the best midlaner in NA, and was also hands down the best shotcaller in NA, will have success and fulfillment in his career as coach/supporting staff for C9.

I also think that Hai should get a lot of respect and not hate from the community, because Cloud9, led by hai, did so much to improve the level of play in NA. Their 25/3 record shows how much stronger they were in the summer split of 2013. And they were a major contributing factor to the growth of NA as a whole. Hai has done so much for the NA scene, just as much as the early founders of the scene, people like HotshotGG, Reggie, STVicious, and others. They were the founders, but hai was one the main leaders of NA growth as a region.

I for one will miss watching him play very much.

56 Comments

Earl EulrichApr 23, 20156 votes

that´s a shame, would have hoped they´d try to swap him and meteos. He had been a brilliant Jungler when he first appeared on the scene (even carrying on tp-ap-jungle-yi) and it´s way easier to shoutcall as a jungler compared to sololaner in my experience (as you constantly look on the "bigger picture" anyway).

VixanysApr 23, 201518 votes

The biggest part, imo, of him leaving is his wrists. Swapping in and out with Meteos would not allow him time to heal.

SAFFATLOLApr 23, 20151 votes

Yeah he even said in the official statement that he just couldn't put in the time to improve because of his wrists and it was holding his team back

AbyssionKnightApr 23, 20156 votes

It's really not unexpected. He's always had a limited champion pool and recently his health has been on the decline.

Despite that though he was a core part of C9, and I'm very curious to see how the team handles the loss of their shotcaller moving forward.

ZeroAnarchyApr 23, 20156 votes

Hai was never the best mid in NA in his prime, he was and still is the best shotcaller however.

S3 best mid - Mancloud S4/5 - Bjergsen

TheSequelsRBadApr 23, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Hai was never the best mid in NA in his prime, he was and still is the best shotcaller however.

S3 best mid - Mancloud S4/5 - Bjergsen

I said in my opinion he was. I think in the summer split of 2013, and in the Spring split of 2014, hai was the best. Just my opinion though, and i understand yours.

íanApr 23, 20153 votes

i agree with party panda, maybe the stats dont show it, but in my opinion hai was more mechanically skilled than mancloud in his prime and maybe even better than bjergsen. just goes to show what a collapsed lung and wrist injuries can do to you

SammystormApr 23, 20151 votes

I fwe don't use stats the comparisons boil down to opinion which is not productive.

SinatraZApr 24, 20151 votes

Hai better than Bjergsen ? please....

TheSequelsRBadApr 24, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Hai better than Bjergsen ? please....

Re-watch the Spring Split 2014 finals, Hai overall did better than bjergsen, and even solo-killed him once or twice. Bjergsen is definitely the better midlaner now, but even bjergsen himself admits that he learned a lot from hai when he first came to NA. I never said hai is stronger now, but I think in his prime Hai was better.

DestructoDaveApr 24, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Re-watch the Spring Split 2014 finals, Hai overall did better than bjergsen, and even solo-killed him once or twice. Bjergsen is definitely the better midlaner now, but even bjergsen himself admits that he learned a lot from hai when he first came to NA. I never said hai is stronger now, but I think in his prime Hai was better.

Yes. In one of the pieces when Bjerg first came over, he said of all the mids in NA, Hai gave him the most trouble. Hai in his prime, before the injuries, was at least on Bjerg's level. The Bjerg of today is not the Bjerg of then, same as the Hai of today is nowhere near the Hai of then. The injuries pretty much ruined Hai, but thats life. He was a very strong mid before carpal tunnel and lung issues, that obviously limits the amount of time he can put into the game.

Hai's only problem back then, wasn't mechanics, it was his champion pool, which has always been shallow.

But people seem to only remember current events. Of course the Hai of today is honestly the worst mid laner in NA. But he was nowhere near this bad before all the crap happened to him. Just like the dominating force of Bjerg today was not anywhere near what he was when he first came over.

I think if Hai was still on his game, before all the injuries, C9 would be perfectly fine. He would be, probably #2 mid NA. Instead, hes number 10 thanks to injuries.

And, I think other posters hit another key point; Balls has been underperforming for a while now, too. The only 3 players playing at a consistently decent level is Sneaky, Meteos, and Lemonation. Esp. Sneaky and Meteos. Balls hasnt been good at all this split.

daemanicApr 23, 20151 votes

you have to put into the fact C9 went 25-3 in 2013 only team close was TSM at 14-14 LOL

ZeroAnarchyApr 23, 20152 votes

You can still be worse than the other mid but still win because you have different strengths (Hai - Shotcalling) and how C9 were very good in teamplay. People are kind of overrating Hai, don't get me wrong he was GOOD, but he was never the best in any season. There is no question though that Hai is the best shotcaller NA has EVER had.

Jungle Lux GodApr 24, 20151 votes

Actually, Vulcun was the only team even remotely close to C9 with a 20-8 record, backed up by being the only team to tie with a head-to-head record with C9. And it was a distinct second, as like you said TSM was the next highest after that with a 14-14 record.

As a matter of fact, both Vulcun and C9 ended the regular season with no losing head-to-head records that split. C9 only had an even win-loss record against Vulcun, and Vulcun only suffered an even win-loss record against C9, TSM, and CLG, if I remember correctly.

soulbanana8Apr 23, 20155 votes

I'm upset that Hai is leaving. But he's right: he needs his wrists to heal and his confidence level looks like its going down due to that injury. I hope he gets well soon so that he can start playing competitively again without having to worry about his injury.

MinrogApr 23, 20155 votes

I'm glad he retired. Watching his gameplay and knowing that he's been playing injured all split made me worried about him. Carpal Tunnel is brutal and he is a young guy still.

I wish him the best as a coach and I hope their new mid-laner works out.

VixanysApr 23, 20153 votes

He didn't become the coach. He became C9's Chief Gaming Officer (CGO) in charge of scouting new talent for all games C9 will be involved in and managing/getting new sponsors.

Curling VeigarApr 23, 20155 votes

hotshot is a huge shitter though.

The Bíg TicketApr 23, 20155 votes

Below average laner imo. Atleast for top tier play. Good shotcalling but to me he always seemed to be the weakest part in Cloud9 who have 3 mechanically skilled players in Meteos, Balls and Sneaky.

íanApr 23, 20154 votes

In my opinion, without hai and c9 bursting into the na scene, na would still be a shit team at international competition and only ever dream about beating any "world-class" teams. But because of cloud 9's revolutionary play, NA is actually a contender for international competitions now. I wish Hai the best of luck in the rest of his adventures and thank him for every single thing he has done for the league secene as a whole

ChamploogeApr 24, 20154 votes

He win be missed greatly from the TSM organization. Lots o frespect amongst the teams, and bjerg has learned so much from hai. Hate to see him leave but,.. that wrist :(

Farewell summoner 7 HAI

Angelofchaos16xApr 23, 20153 votes

{quoted}

I for one will miss watching him play very much.

True that Bro. I hope that this is not a goodbye 4 good from playing in the LCS. I hope that at some point he comes back.

Seductive PotatoApr 23, 20153 votes

C9 incarnati0n incoming?

Yxgl222HaXApr 23, 20153 votes

Have you ever been deleted so badly by a cho'gath that you had to retire? that aside its a shame to see him go but, the wrist thing was obviously starting to hold him back and he did what he had to do- he himself realized he was holding his team back and like a real leader he put his team before his only desire to play in the lcs and step down. Good player and a good leader, just a shame to see the "all amerian team" have to take on new blood Teemo

SammystormApr 23, 20153 votes

Honestly, he currently was probably the weakest link in c9. He helped develop a better NA scene but he was to inconsistent to really be considered a top mid laner. When he is doing well he carries games. when he isn't the entire team suffers.

TheSequelsRBadApr 23, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Honestly, he currently was probably the weakest link in c9. He helped develop a better NA scene but he was to inconsistent to really be considered a top mid laner. When he is doing well he carries games. when he isn't the entire team suffers.

And that's why he stepped down, he is the weakest link of C9 right now primarily because of his wrist issues. But in his prime, Summer Split of 2013 and Spring Split of 2014, I think he was the best midlaner in NA. And I as a C9 fan I like to think back to then when i think of hai, not the more recent games.

SammystormApr 23, 20156 votes

Best shot caller maybe. Bejersen has basically always been better then Hai. Also Hai was the weakest link in 2013 too. Just NA was not prepared for his really good shot calling and the amazing synergy C9 had.

íanApr 23, 20156 votes

Hai was definitely not a weak link during the 2013 summer and 2014 summer splits. In my honest opinion he was better than bjergsen during the spring split, both in mechanics and strategy. sad to see such an innovative player step down

KüramaApr 23, 20152 votes

He did well leading Cloud 9 even though he fell short of perfection sometimes. Always admired Cloud 9, including him. I can see how it can hinder your success.

Despite the meta changing, I'm sure he would have been able to adapt, sure he would have to make changes to the way he played and perhaps his champ pool, but he was definitely capable of doing it!

Gotta admit I'll miss the guy. I wish him Good luck with his new position as CGO!!

4nth0l0gyApr 23, 20152 votes

...I don't remember when people decided to start calling Hai the best shot caller in NA, and it still kind of confuses me. Wasn't Lemon supposed to be the major strategist for the team or something?

TheSequelsRBadApr 23, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=CC Shepherd,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=Au1YrHMA,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2015-04-23T20:17:58.667+0000)

...I don't remember when people decided to start calling Hai the best shot caller in NA, and it still kind of confuses me. Wasn't Lemon supposed to be the major strategist for the team or something?

Lemon does team-comps and champ select along with Charlie. And hai has been considered a top tier shotcaller for a long time, but he really rose to fame at Worlds 2014, particularly in the NJWS vs C9 tiebreaker, where C9 almost won with like a 8k gold deficit by out-rotating.

Toa of DeathApr 24, 20151 votes

That was the game that hooked me as a C9 fan. An NA team completely dominating a top Korean team. Especially loved "THIS IS FOR KABUM!"

daemanicApr 23, 20152 votes

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO item 3070 WHY HAI WHY im gonna miss him so much Goodbye C9 hopefully you can findsomeone to step into the biggest shoes on C9

COMMANDER FRAKESApr 24, 20152 votes

Now they just need to move LemonNation to a coaching role and get a Support that can hit his skillshots, and not make as many mistakes in positioning. Not an insult, since Lemon seems very smart, but his mechanics and positioning are flawed. Plus they have had the same roster, so they are able to get 2 foreigners if need be, since Hai is gone, and with Lemon gone they would be much better off in my opinion. Balls still does well enough that he should stick around, especially with certain champions. Meteos and Sneaky have nothing to worry about in terms of getting replaced. They do their jobs very well.

PoisonedTeaApr 24, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=COMMANDER FRAKES,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=Au1YrHMA,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2015-04-24T00:57:27.498+0000)

Now they just need to move LemonNation to a coaching role and get a Support that can hit his skillshots, and not make as many mistakes in positioning. Not an insult, since Lemon seems very smart, but his mechanics and positioning are flawed. Plus they have had the same roster, so they are able to get 2 foreigners if need be, since Hai is gone, and with Lemon gone they would be much better off in my opinion. Balls still does well enough that he should stick around, especially with certain champions. Meteos and Sneaky have nothing to worry about in terms of getting replaced. They do their jobs very well.

The funny thing about lemonnation is that he almost never lost a 2v2 lane. He is could be called the best laning support in NA. Lemonnation just might be the most underrated player ever. Would I ever call him a star player no but what he is just one step below that.

I most worried about balls even it they get a star mid laner if balls just loses it will still be hard for C9.

Linna ExcelApr 23, 20151 votes

Noo, not the main Ahri player!

JrpitolocoApr 24, 20151 votes

Long live Hai

arcinexApr 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

who was in his prime in my opinion the best midlaner in NA, and was also hands down the best shotcaller in NA

If this were true C9 wouldn't have ended their spring split in 2nd place Kappa

TheSequelsRBadApr 24, 20153 votes

{quoted}

If this were true C9 wouldn't have ended their spring split in 2nd place Kappa

When hai was in his prime, C9 didn't finish second.

GibonGraApr 24, 20151 votes

Honestly, Bals is the weakest link in C9. People just don't admit it because he rarely goes god mode and makes everyone forget all his play that's absolute shit.

JweldyApr 24, 20151 votes

Honestly, as long as the rest of the team stays together, I think that the team will be much, much better next season. Hopefully they can bring in somebody with better mechanics and have somebody on the existing roster replace him as shotcaller (Meteos maybe?). But overall, I think this will be an improvement for the team in the end.

Chromatic EagleApr 24, 20151 votes

When you have an injury it's best to step down. No need to be upset I'm happy for him. Health comes first. Besides he's still a part of the team, he's just in a new role. Wish him the best.

Fr0mTh3Ash3sApr 25, 20151 votes

It is crazy how short a professional LoL player's career is.

I have mad respect for Hai. Regardless of whether you think he was THE best, he will always be a champion and no one can ever take that away from him. Seems like a nice guy. I'm sad to see him go.

cookiesforuApr 28, 20151 votes

I dunno man, this season I've kept up with LCS eu and NA, LPL, LPK and even more obscure ones. Also this was my first season caring about esports and I barely missed a match even of the lesser teams. Hai wasn't anything special to me and made poor decisions in a lot of games I saw. C9 looked particularly bad at IEM. I feel he was holding the team back quite a bit. Balls was pretty meh too. They need a change. Once his champs are banned he can't do too much.

TheSequelsRBadApr 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I dunno man, this season I've kept up with LCS eu and NA, LPL, LPK and even more obscure ones. Also this was my first season caring about esports and I barely missed a match even of the lesser teams. Hai wasn't anything special to me and made poor decisions in a lot of games I saw. C9 looked particularly bad at IEM. I feel he was holding the team back quite a bit. Balls was pretty meh too. They need a change. Once his champs are banned he can't do too much.

I don't know where you got the idea that I think Hai should stay on the team. I will miss Hai a lot, because I have followed C9 pretty much since they were created, and he is probably my favorite pro player. Yet I still agree that hai, mainly because of health reasons, which is the largest reason he is playing bad, needed to step down. I also pointed out that in Hai's prime, before the health problems, he was a top tier mid, and I just wanted to remind people of that because I see so many people hating on how bad hai is, but they forget he often used to 1v1 kill their precious bjergsen.

cookiesforuApr 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I don't know where you got the idea that I think Hai should stay on the team. I will miss Hai a lot, because I have followed C9 pretty much since they were created, and he is probably my favorite pro player. Yet I still agree that hai, mainly because of health reasons, which is the largest reason he is playing bad, needed to step down. I also pointed out that in Hai's prime, before the health problems, he was a top tier mid, and I just wanted to remind people of that because I see so many people hating on how bad hai is, but they forget he often used to 1v1 kill their precious bjergsen.

You said that with hai's departure you fear that c9 will disappear. I read your post man, wasn't calling you out just sharing my observations. I think c9 will be just fine. They're still second best and I bet whoever replaces him will be great. I actually didn't know about his health problems until this thread but always wondered about his wrist straps. i never said he was bad but he contributed to c9s poor performance this season along with balls. Hence why I had to dump balls pretty early from my fantasy roster. Anyways man, sorry you took my post the wrong way.

TheSequelsRBadApr 28, 20152 votes

{quoted}

You said that with hai's departure you fear that c9 will disappear. I read your post man, wasn't calling you out just sharing my observations. I think c9 will be just fine. They're still second best and I bet whoever replaces him will be great. I actually didn't know about his health problems until this thread but always wondered about his wrist straps. i never said he was bad but he contributed to c9s poor performance this season along with balls. Hence why I had to dump balls pretty early from my fantasy roster. Anyways man, sorry you took my post the wrong way.

I probably responded with more irritation than I should have, sorry about that. And as for my fear that C9 will fall apart with hai leaving, it most likely won't happen, its just that C9 has never had a roster swap before , so we have no idea how the transition will go. C9 will most likely bounce back, and if they get a good mid still have a very talented roster.

cookiesforuApr 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I probably responded with more irritation than I should have, sorry about that. And as for my fear that C9 will fall apart with hai leaving, it most likely won't happen, its just that C9 has never had a roster swap before , so we have no idea how the transition will go. C9 will most likely bounce back, and if they get a good mid still have a very talented roster.

I agree. Sneaky, Lemonation and Meteos are fantastic to watch, super talented and I enjoyed all of their games (maybe not IEM unfortunately, I hoped they'd get further but they drew GE Tigers first and that was quite unfortunate) this season.