c9 had a fantastic run and nobody can deny that

Jennifer420·Oct 28, 2018·55 votes·16,287 views

going from last place in na lcs to semi finals at worlds while also taking down afreeca. thats just awesome. i know some salty fans and other types will look who to blame now (well ofc ppl on c9 did bad THEY LOST you know) but i think the majority of the community has a brain and a heart big enough to understand what c9 did was really awesome. and they deserve respect for it.

if you think youre some god who can do it better, then why are you here on boards going full keyboard warrior again? go lift that worlds trophy instead.

85 Comments

Yordle XayahOct 28, 201824 votes

I need to double down on this, and I say the following as a FNC fan since 2013:

It's unfair to ignore C9's year just because of these 3 games. They went from 10th in the LCS to being the first western team ever to beat a Korean team in a Bo5, as well as reaching Semifinals. They showed creative picks and came through what everyone called the "Group of Death" in a convincing way. They continue to be a pride to NA as a region, and nobody can take that away from them.

I'm confident they'll be back in 2019, hungry for the domestic title and another shot at the international stage.

ModKnightsKemplarOct 28, 20183 votes

I'm certainly proud of them. They fought well, and I hope they came away with the knowledge they need to transform themselves into a World Championship caliber team.

I'm not mad at them, but I'm not letting them off the hook for next year, either. They have the raw talent to get there, and I want to see it. C9 2019!

Electro522Oct 28, 20185 votes

Not to mention we did this with 3 ROOKIES.....though, it's hard to say they're rookies anymore.

Licorice is a beast, and now that he has some real experience under his belt, going up against (and, ultimately, getting smashed by) the best top laners in the world, this guy is going places, and other teams should fear the kind of potential he has.

Zeyzal was able to replace Smoothie of all people, the guy that was in heavy talks as the best support in NA. Now that he has gotten plenty of time with the team, it does feel like as if he is moving towards the teams primary shot caller.......the same role Smoothie had. He may never be as god tier of a shot caller as Hai (granted, Hai is kind of an abnormality), but that doesn't detract from how much of a positive influence he has on this team.

Blabber......probably still needs a bit more experience. But since he's working with Svenskeren, one of the most veteran junglers in both NA and EU, it's safe to say that he could very likely become a very solid jungler.

Gaxx DOct 29, 20181 votes

First western team since 2012*. CLG EU got to finals of OGN in season 2, beating Najin Black on their way.

Noor SakataOct 28, 20185 votes

C9 jungler was disappointing to be honest

AXayahAccountOct 28, 20183 votes

Sneaky Viktor ADC, C9 lost because they're braindead.

GeminiRuneOct 28, 201811 votes

The Viktor pick wasn't even the problem that game! Also why be salty?!

AXayahAccountOct 28, 20181 votes

Because it was a horrible pick and made them lose. That Viktor pick was very bad that game. Just like the Trist pick game 1 was bad. They tilted sneaky that in game 3 he literally walked into 4 feathers like "fuck it.".

GeminiRuneOct 28, 20184 votes

Do explain how the Viktor pick as bad. Sounds to me like you didn't even bother watching what good the pick was doing during lane (such as...keeping even if not pressure) with the ally Leona but couldn't make up for due to the rest of the disadvantages made by the rest of the team comp. If you want to talk out your ass, take your downvote.

HopeStartsWithUOct 28, 20181 votes

That's the point you don't pick Viktor if your team doesnt fulfill every other roles. They couldn't afford that pick and yet they still made it, which in my opinion wasn't really smart. But that happened quiet often in worlds. For example Olaf picks which didn't fit the comps AT ALL.

GeminiRuneOct 28, 20181 votes

Okay. I get your point. But what would have a conventional Marksman done for Sneaky in place of Viktor having already lost out Game 1. Note also that it was a first pick in rotation that got effectively flexed beyond its norm due to what was given away. With flex picks it doesn't even matter who plays it even; it's about just having that utility and resource as they'll give it. Jayce for example in yesterday's IG vs G2 series.

HopeStartsWithUOct 28, 20181 votes

Yep that's true just sayin that Viktor wasn't the solution haha. And G2 was just sadness. They played so much worse than in quarter. RIP

GeminiRuneOct 28, 20181 votes

It wasn't the solution but it was the best in-lane showing of that series...cause it's still freakin Rekkles at the end of the day.

HopeStartsWithUOct 28, 20181 votes

Lmao ofc I just wished that he would have played Kennen again man. It was so iconic back then.

Ale non è maleOct 29, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Do explain how the Viktor pick as bad. Sounds to me like you didn't even bother watching what good the pick was doing during lane (such as...keeping even if not pressure) with the ally Leona but couldn't make up for due to the rest of the disadvantages made by the rest of the team comp. If you want to talk out your ass, take your downvote.

Viktor was a very bad pick because C9 didn't plan their strategy around it, they just pick Viktor to take it away from Bwipo was crushed them in game 1, and put Sneaky on it because they didn't know where to place it. How they were supposed to deal damage late game once FNC got MR items, given that their only sources of physical damage was an Aatrox that was going to be counterpicked and likely behind after lane (even though the Jayce pick was an especially genius move from FNC as it kept Aatrox further behind than an usual meta match-up), and short range/low sustained damage Graves? FNC could just take two pushers in Sivir and Azir and suffocate C9, like it actually happened, especially after the great Jayce kill on Lissandra that sealed the deal on the first played forced by FNC after a moment where it seemed like C9 could have a fighting chance if they could find something on the map

GeminiRuneOct 29, 20181 votes

It still wasn't a bad pick by lane context. Yes it was obviously a take away pick but you and the original critic are making it sound like it was bad because it ultimately flexed onto Sneaky while the rest of the P/B bottle-necked itself. Why is that a problem? It's not like Sneaky could out micro his direct opponent so stop making it sound like he's the only damage carry they're meant to have. The pick for role allocation wasn't meant to carry unless it could by the opponent's hand.

What C9 banked on was playing better in the other parts of the map; particularly through Graves who would deter the defensive options for FNC. Then the Viktor/Leona utilities make for easier picks...which at the very first iteration it happened was too late and not enough. They needed play after play to work before then and hold a gold and map advantage early but once the first turret fell bot side, the map unlocked for Sivir. But why the hell would that be because Sneaky played Viktor? Sneaky could have rotated on any champion and the same thing could have happened. But yeah let's just ignore the matter of Sneaky having the lane forward and CS advantage for the first 15 minutes until said mid-fight an first turret bot.

For the P/B, the counter pick of Jayce came to the 2nd rotation Aatrox in Phase 1. That made things instantly tough but still an opening if the entire game plan was made from the start. But no team would deliberately say "we're playing this here" when flex options exist.

Phase 2 is where the strategy had to be the most stressful due to the what ifs. They had the choice to ban out the Sivir which won Game 1 with ease but maintained their Xayah priority in hope to get a better early game. Kai'Sa was still on the table but the recent dip in priority probably misguided their trust. The Azir was a result of blind picking and Caps first game of it; that alone goes beyond what any of us can believe. At that point, all we have is a Syndra ban that tells us anything. Could Jensen have run Viktor in which he's lose with it twice already? Who knows; it's still a blind pick. Lucian could have been picked up Phase 1 over Aatrox for a potential favorable top match-up but now you're risking Xayah/Rakan and it's Rekkles.

I stand by it: Viktor was no way in hell the bad pick. It's what the rest of the team ran themselves into and couldn't make enough off of it to wind up getting oppressed the way they did.

Ale non è maleOct 29, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It still wasn't a bad pick by lane context. Yes it was obviously a take away pick but you and the original critic are making it sound like it was bad because it ultimately flexed onto Sneaky while the rest of the P/B bottle-necked itself. Why is that a problem? It's not like Sneaky could out micro his direct opponent so stop making it sound like he's the only damage carry they're meant to have. The pick for role allocation wasn't meant to carry unless it could by the opponent's hand.

What C9 banked on was playing better in the other parts of the map; particularly through Graves who would deter the defensive options for FNC. Then the Viktor/Leona utilities make for easier picks...which at the very first iteration it happened was too late and not enough. They needed play after play to work before then and hold a gold and map advantage early but once the first turret fell bot side, the map unlocked for Sivir. But why the hell would that be because Sneaky played Viktor? Sneaky could have rotated on any champion and the same thing could have happened. But yeah let's just ignore the matter of Sneaky having the lane forward and CS advantage for the first 15 minutes until said mid-fight an first turret bot.

For the P/B, the counter pick of Jayce came to the 2nd rotation Aatrox in Phase 1. That made things instantly tough but still an opening if the entire game plan was made from the start. But no team would deliberately say "we're playing this here" when flex options exist.

Phase 2 is where the strategy had to be the most stressful due to the what ifs. They had the choice to ban out the Sivir which won Game 1 with ease but maintained their Xayah priority in hope to get a better early game. Kai'Sa was still on the table but the recent dip in priority probably misguided their trust. The Azir was a result of blind picking and Caps first game of it; that alone goes beyond what any of us can believe. At that point, all we have is a Syndra ban that tells us anything. Could Jensen have run Viktor in which he's lose with it twice already? Who knows; it's still a blind pick. Lucian could have been picked up Phase 1 over Aatrox for a potential favorable top match-up but now you're risking Xayah/Rakan and it's Rekkles.

I stand by it: Viktor was no way in hell the bad pick. It's what the rest of the team ran themselves into and couldn't make enough off of it to wind up getting oppressed the way they did.

Blindpick a champion with clear flaws as Viktor without a plan and with the possibility for enemy to counterpick is by definition a bad pick, and FNC coaching staff just make It worse

Sneaky didn't actually do bad on him, but C9 put theirselves on such tight conditions to win after the draft that was basically a game FNC had to throw to let C9 win.

Sivir can just neutralize that lane and farm safely, especially in Rekkles hands (making that lane basically ungankable, especially after game 1 Xin failed gank), while FNC has other two pushing lanes, and the moment they can take down the first tower they can outrotate C9 to death all around the map. You talk about how C9 needed to get an early advantage on gold/map, but where they would going to get it with 2 losing and a neutral (since Viktor can't actually roam unpunished) lane?

If C9 was so scared of Viktor, they should have just spent a ban on him in Ban Phase 1 rather than banning Akali which is something you can't blindpick or at least you can strategize against (Lissandra for example is good against it once you survive early).

You say there was still an opening after Jayce pick, but that's just wrong, once Viktor was blindpicked, FNC literally baited them with the Xin pick in the first rotation to then reveal the Jayce pick and destroy their draft, since they could Just counterpick midlane with the last pick of Phase 2 and pick any champ that could stomp Viktor early, forcing C9 to chose to either swallow the bad match-up in mid lane, or move Viktor bot...but Sivir can just always be somewhat indipendente, viable and useful, so this did not represent a problem for FNC at all (and given all three of Sivir/Xayah/Kai'sa was open, a Sivir ban would have not changed anything). Azir was not a result of blindpicking, that is the entire opposite of what happened, it was just the cherry on the cake when FNC actually had at least half a dozen of champs available to select after seeing C9 choice (once C9 settled in Lissandra, FNC can permashove with a Malzahar rather than Azir and Little would change in overall dynamic).

Viktor was a very bad blindpick, FNC always picked Viktor after seeing the C9 Xin pick on 1st rotation in Phase 1 as jungler and having the possibility to counterpick in the jungle in Phase 2 when they could know at least 1 or both the C9 carries (and they knew both as C9 lastpicked Ekko top twice)

GeminiRuneOct 29, 20181 votes

Viktor was a priority pick based on recency. First picking priority picks happens A LOT. But in context of the overall comp and its execution, that was not the pick that broke C9. End of my point!

Ale non è maleOct 29, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Viktor was a priority pick based on recency. First picking priority picks happens A LOT. But in context of the overall comp and its execution, that was not the pick that broke C9. End of my point!

Viktor is a somewhat of a priority pick but it is not SO broken at the moment to completely ignore his weaknesses and blindpick him as first pick. He is a 2nd tier at best/3rd tier as priority at the moment Look again at the part where I point out when FNC actually picked him, they picked him kind of late and with jungle counterpick available in 2nd Phase. FNC which is the only team actually winning at Worlds with Viktor is picking him always after seeing what enemy is doing.

Viktor pick ruined C9 game 2 draft...of course it is not the only reason why FNC stomped C9 though in the entire series

GeminiRuneOct 30, 20181 votes

I'm talking about one pick here and how it was not the sole problem of one game. If I wanted an entire series, I'd have done it.

I'll let you go ahead and make the last remark from here.

Ale non è maleOct 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I'm talking about one pick here and how it was not the sole problem of one game. If I wanted an entire series, I'd have done it.

I'll let you go ahead and make the last remark from here.

The point I am making is that Viktor pick was the specific problem for game 2 entire C9 draft, because whatever plan they had for using it, FNC turned it around and ruined C9 strategy to use it and forced them to use it as an emergency flex... which wasn't the problem per se, but was the conseqeunce of having to scramble to not completely getting destroyed by FNC...because once Jayce was pulled out and with last pick of Phase 2 avaiable for mid, FNC just had autowon two laning match-ups in top/mid no matter what champs would C9 choose in Phase 2

In general, C9 tried to draft using the same concepts of their winning games, but FNC completely neutered them, the Viktor pick look like the most glaring example for me because it actually effected an entire draft, but that's not even the game C9 lost in the worst manner, tbh.

I don't get the hate on Tristana pick in game 1 to be honest, she still works well in synergy with Braum and they wanted to get the late game advantage over the Sivir pair with the supposed late game Lissandra advantage over LeBlanc (hoping in Ekko winning top and snowballing too), it is just that in the immediate start of the game Sven couldn't get anything from the lvl1 red buff steal because of the good FNC vision defense in top side of the map while FNC got the pick on mid with Broxah on a questionable choice by Jensen to permapush so everything that C9 spent for the invade was for nothing and Sneaky wasn't given the time to scale The Sven suicide play after that was just him trying to force a play because they had immediately lost their late game win condition after midlane start... he had no need to keep going in and suicide, but he deemed that a 1 for 1 giving Ekko an assist and lane priority would have been a good trade at that point to feed Ekko and try to win through top, it just backfired spectacularly and it backfired because I'd argue Licorice was horrendous too in that play, as he approached Bwipo from the wrong angle and eat too much damage while going in and had to use ulti so early he couldn't kill help in killing Bwipo and neither had the ulti drag the play on the FNC collapse to get something out of it... especially given that he overstayed for no reason to farm after his ult while Sven was chasing Bwipo

ÈvilMortyOct 28, 20183 votes

that xin dive in game one tho was probably the bronziest pro play ive seen

Cait MainOct 29, 20181 votes

He knew he was dead as he had vision of mid and jg appear right as he entered turret. The better play would be to distract the jg and die to save his top but Sven probably didn't think they could kill Ekko.

Ozzie StormOct 28, 20182 votes

Also that baron steal was epic and always will be [sg-lux] gg Na ^^

TheFinestKekOct 28, 20182 votes

I'm just happy fnc is in finals. Woulda prefered g2 in there as well but, shit happens.Let's go fnc take the crown back!

ModCaptainMårvelousOct 28, 20182 votes

NA 2017: C9 in Quarters NA 2018: C9 in Semifinals 2019: Finals???? 2020: WIN WORLDS?????

rtbf225618241Oct 29, 20181 votes

I'm pretty sure if C9 ends up in Finals next year, nobody will hold it against them if they lose. One step at a time.

And these are some big steps.

ModCaptainMårvelousOct 29, 20181 votes

I earnestly think nothing will top this year.

Like 0-8 first week then not only climbing out of the pits but making 3rd seed of NA, going through play-ins, winning groups AND making all the way to semi-finals...

With rookies.

Imagine if franchising hadn't happened and Licorice/Zeyzal hadn't been tested in the NA LCS. We might see a very different C9.

rtbf225618241Oct 29, 20181 votes

We thought this Season won't be any better than 2014 worlds or 2017 worlds either yet everyone thinks it's the best there is.

The balance team has made the game at least enjoyable to watch. To play? Well, that's an entirely different thread.

ModCaptainMårvelousOct 29, 20181 votes

That's what happens when you focus design choices around the top percentage of players while ignoring most of the lower tier playerbase.

You end up with a "better" game but one that also scares away lower-skill players.

rtbf225618241Oct 29, 20181 votes

As a Plat player, the bar is far lower than most people are willing to climb over.

I don't pity them.

Cait MainOct 29, 20182 votes

Preach. Its insane how so many NA/EU fans are quick to say NA is bad after they lose. I've seen people saying NA is worse then LMS this year because C9 lost in semifinals!

C9 did amazing as well as G2 and FNC this year all showing that the western teams aren't all jokes and hopefully a western team can win a worlds with eastern teams in the tournament.

KrackProphetOct 28, 20181 votes

Pretty much wrote em off after the first part of draft when they took Lis instead of Lucian. Their draft was trash and it seemed like Jensen was terrified.

Couple Koreans gonna eat FNC alive tho in the final.

brutąlOct 28, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Pretty much wrote em off after the first part of draft when they took Lis instead of Lucian. Their draft was trash and it seemed like Jensen was terrified.

Couple Koreans gonna eat FNC alive tho in the final.

yeah and who are these Koreans?

Gaxx DOct 29, 20181 votes

Ah, NA is out now, so it's back to "who cares, EU is gonna get stomped by Koreans, since they're trash anyway". Stay classy.

Princess SonaOct 29, 20181 votes

But Korea is out of the tournament... It's Fnc (EU) vs IG (china)

Gaxx DOct 29, 20181 votes

Did you read the post I replied to?

Ale non è maleOct 29, 20181 votes

I'll start saying that C9 had a GREAT run, and I appreciated their play in these Worlds The problem is that both NA haters and fanboys are not being objective when evaluating it, and they should bring back their performance to the reality

C9 showed how by not being your typical NA team, NA can succeed at international level, and this is the culmination of what they have often done in the past which made them by far the most successful at Worlds in NA history. They are the NA team where players don't assume a smug attitude towards their success, are generally more positive personalities, they are the NA top team that invest in and trust the most in rookies, they are the one with the more unique and aggressive style compared to the other Korean copycats, they put emphasis on individual play even though it can backfire, and they are a pretty solid team all things considered (as showed in the past with those hour long grinded wins, and also this season they had a lower potential performances than peak Vitality but they were able to edge it out in the end with their superior experience) C9 didn't get success because others were bad, they got success because they were very very good

Having said that, it is also true that C9 were really lucky, as they are the lowest ranked ever team to get to semifinals, when you look at the rankings of World performance in any given year No team ever got to semifinals being arguably only the 6th best team in the competition; even what were labeled by NA fanboys as the weakest semifinalists in previous Worlds like H2K in 2016 or FNC in 2013 or WE in 2017 were at worst the 5th best team in Worlds that year....and C9 lucked out in facing the 7th best team at Worlds in quarters despite finishing 2nd in the group stage C9 got also lucky to be favoured by VIT litting up the fire in their group and overall in the entire Worlds (alongside G2) which estabilished the style that C9 also took and hurted the Korean competition that C9 had to overcome to get to semifinals, while VIT itself was penalized by their high risk style when faced a team with similar style but more experience to get over the group stage while being likely weaker than peak Vitality as yet said

C9 run is historic for the region and NA has to celebrate its players and got the right lessons to improve to higher levels their performances, but you shouldn't overblown or downplay their achievements or the achievement of the entire region, NA is still way behind the top 3 regions (KR, CN, EU) and in overall rankings is only gaining spots relatively to LMS region that got destroyed by Garena/Riot decision to competitively destroy that region by splitting it in multiple ones (imagine fielding 3 teams made by the best of LMS, Vietnam and SEA region alltogether rathern than them being split). 100 Thieves was terrible, and TL as the typical NA superteam looked clueless and basically had no chance to get through a relatively easy group when they had to just prevail in the head to head vs the worst version of EDG ever at Worlds (TL beat them in week 2 when EDG had dropped their concentration after upsetting EDG and guaranteeing their ownspot in quarters)

SpiritAnomalyOct 29, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=3v8fnATB,comment-id=0018,timestamp=2018-10-29T15:17:04.336+0000)

I'll start saying that C9 had a GREAT run, and I appreciated their play in these Worlds The problem is that both NA haters and fanboys are not being objective when evaluating it, and they should bring back their performance to the reality

C9 showed how by not being your typical NA team, NA can succeed at international level, and this is the culmination of what they have often done in the past which made them by far the most successful at Worlds in NA history. They are the NA team where players don't assume a smug attitude towards their success, are generally more positive personalities, they are the NA top team that invest in and trust the most in rookies, they are the one with the more unique and aggressive style compared to the other Korean copycats, they put emphasis on individual play even though it can backfire, and they are a pretty solid team all things considered (as showed in the past with those hour long grinded wins, and also this season they had a lower potential performances than peak Vitality but they were able to edge it out in the end with their superior experience) C9 didn't get success because others were bad, they got success because they were very very good

Having said that, it is also true that C9 were really lucky, as they are the lowest ranked ever team to get to semifinals, when you look at the rankings of World performance in any given year No team ever got to semifinals being arguably only the 6th best team in the competition; even what were labeled by NA fanboys as the weakest semifinalists in previous Worlds like H2K in 2016 or FNC in 2013 or WE in 2017 were at worst the 5th best team in Worlds that year....and C9 lucked out in facing the 7th best team at Worlds in quarters despite finishing 2nd in the group stage C9 got also lucky to be favoured by VIT litting up the fire in their group and overall in the entire Worlds (alongside G2) which estabilished the style that C9 also took and hurted the Korean competition that C9 had to overcome to get to semifinals, while VIT itself was penalized by their high risk style when faced a team with similar style but more experience to get over the group stage while being likely weaker than peak Vitality as yet said

C9 run is historic for the region and NA has to celebrate its players and got the right lessons to improve to higher levels their performances, but you shouldn't overblown or downplay their achievements or the achievement of the entire region, NA is still way behind the top 3 regions (KR, CN, NA) and in overall rankings is only gaining spots relatively to LMS region that got destroyed by Garena/Riot decision to competitively destroy that region by splitting it in multiple ones (imagine fielding 3 teams made by the best of LMS, Vietnam and SEA region alltogether rathern than them being split). 100 Thieves was terrible, and TL as the typical NA superteam looked clueless and basically had no chance to get through a relatively easy group when they had to just prevail in the head to head vs the worst version of EDG ever at Worlds (TL beat them in week 2 when EDG had dropped their concentration after upsetting EDG and guaranteeing their ownspot in quarters)

Wot.

"NA is still behind the top 3 regions (KR, CN, NA)"?

NA is still behind NA?

Ale non è maleOct 29, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Wot.

"NA is still behind the top 3 regions (KR, CN, NA)"?

NA is still behind NA?

Obvious misprint, lmao

SpiritAnomalyOct 30, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=3v8fnATB,comment-id=001800010000,timestamp=2018-10-29T23:50:05.055+0000)

Obvious misprint, lmao

Ik just thought you should edit it.

Ale non è maleOct 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Ik just thought you should edit it.

I did :)

jocomotionOct 29, 20181 votes

Does this mean worlds is finally over?

Jennifer420Oct 30, 20181 votes

hehe no next saturday is the finale. eu fnc vs china ig. as phreak said in 2016 "but in the end, we north americans root for eu aswell" so go and give fnc your energie! :D

Somebody Love MeOct 29, 20181 votes

Honestly, I dont think they should make any changes. Go again with the same roster and watch how the rookies learn from their worlds experience.

Remember Smoothie's rookie year? At first he was ehh, but just a better sub for BunnyFufu, but eventually Sneaky Smoothie became the best bot lane in NA. C9 bot lane was the weak link this year, but give Zeyzal another chance. He has promise. Watch him grow to be a support genius.

Ale non è maleOct 31, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=KDA AkaIí,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=3v8fnATB,comment-id=001b,timestamp=2018-10-29T23:56:01.927+0000)

Honestly, I dont think they should make any changes. Go again with the same roster and watch how the rookies learn from their worlds experience.

Remember Smoothie's rookie year? At first he was ehh, but just a better sub for BunnyFufu, but eventually Sneaky Smoothie became the best bot lane in NA. C9 bot lane was the weak link this year, but give Zeyzal another chance. He has promise. Watch him grow to be a support genius.

Wut? Literally no one considered Zeyzal the weak link in these Worlds. He was the best performer in FNC series by virtue of not being the one making clear mistakes there.

I don't think C9 can achieve the same kind of success with the same roster, but that's likely the only thing they can try unless they can somehow grab a World Champion level aggressive jungler

Somebody Love MeNov 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=3v8fnATB,comment-id=001b0000,timestamp=2018-10-31T09:17:58.533+0000)

Wut? Literally no one considered Zeyzal the weak link in these Worlds. He was the best performer in FNC series by virtue of not being the one making clear mistakes there.

I don't think C9 can achieve the same kind of success with the same roster, but that's likely the only thing they can try unless they can somehow grab a World Champion level aggressive jungler

Sneaky kinda was the weak link (or bot lane as a whole), since they lost almost every lane. But how does a support change make the best bot in NA low key one of the weakest? I'm not saying Zeyzal is bad, I'm saying he has room to grow, which is obvious because rookie. Wait till their synergy has time to grow and we'll see true beauty.

Ale non è maleNov 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=KDA AkaIí,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=3v8fnATB,comment-id=001b00000000,timestamp=2018-11-01T06:59:02.380+0000)

Sneaky kinda was the weak link (or bot lane as a whole), since they lost almost every lane.** But how does a support change make the best bot in NA low key one of the weakest?** I'm not saying Zeyzal is bad, I'm saying he has room to grow, which is obvious because rookie. Wait till their synergy has time to grow and we'll see true beauty.

Bot lane was the weak link because they were not facing other NA bot lanes dude XD C9 bot lane is still good compared to NA, it is just bad compared to the rest of the world. Sneaky has always been somewhat steady and solid, with only the occasional hiccup here and there, for his level of play, but he has never been very good compared to international botlanes when he faced them, he was just so consistent that if stronger enemies underperfrom he could step up and beat them by keeping up his generally decent level of play Doublelift, Stixxay, even Wildturtle or Cody Sun had higher highs but way lower lows andmuch more inconsistent play than Sneaky, that's why they got less success at international level

It has NOTHING to do with Zeyzal performance, if anything Zeyzal performed as well or better than any support of a NA team not named Aphromoo at 2016 MSI and Lustboy at 2014 Worlds has ever done.

I don't honestly think C9 can go much higher than that, unless Zeyzal miracoulously become a World level support ala Mata/Gorilla/Swordart/Yellowstar when he was at his prime/ecc... because it wasn't bot lane synergy or Zeyzal inexperience/performance the problem, it is just neither one of them is great at international level, they are merely good, especially Sneaky who has yet peaked in earlier seasons and he was declining this entire season

EleshakaiOct 30, 20181 votes

C9 did amazing. I am super proud of them as an org. They took a team built off mostly NA talent and groomed those players to fight in the semi-finals of Worlds.

I hope they look forward from this, head held high, and go on to show NA what their style can do next year. I want to see them either at MSI or World's next year.