Champ Mastery Costs, Masterwork Chests, and Some Loot Buffs

RiotRiot Cactopus·Feb 22, 2018·1 votes·142,320 views

Hey friends,

Cactoperson here again to reveal some tweaks we're making to loot and champ mastery.

We've got a bunch of changes to talk about, but before we do anything else I wanna point y'all to this Player Support page where we've just published full loot tables detailing all the numbers and special rules that explain how Hextech chests work. Expect similar transparency about any sort of paid loot boxes like this going forward.

Alright, onto the changes! In each case below, we've listed the feedback we heard from you, then explained the change.

You said... when you get one of the super-rare ultimate or mythic skin drops from loot, it doesn't feel great to have to disenchant tons of skins to unlock it.
So... Ultimate and Mythic skins will now drop as auto-redeeming permanents (no orange essence required to upgrade them). If you already own the skin, you'll be able to disenchant the permanent for orange essence. DJ Sona permanents, for example, will disenchant for 1625 OE. TARGET PATCH: 8.5
You said... it feels bad to get a low-value champ shard after working hard to earn a champ mastery chest (or after buying a Hextech chest).
So... now, when you get a champ shard out of a Hextech chest, it's guaranteed to be for a champion worth at least 4800BE. Note that this change only affects Hextech chests, not honor or leveling capsules. TARGET PATCH: 8.5
You said... it doesn't feel great when a box drops a super low-value ward skin.
So… when you get a ward skin from a Hextech chest, it'll now come with 150 bonus OE. TARGET PATCH: 8.5
You said... that some of you like buying Hextech chests but don't have much use for champ shards or BE.
So… new cosmetic-only "Masterwork" chests (165 RP each or 225 RP with a key) will be made available in the store. Details on these chests can be found with the other loot tables on our player support site. TARGET PATCH: 8.7
**You said... **now that blue essence can be used to purchase champs directly, Champ Mastery upgrades seem to cost a bit much by comparison.
**So… **the Champion Mastery 6 upgrade cost will be reduced by 800BE to 2450BE. Champion Mastery 7 will be reduced by 950BE to 2950BE. TARGET PATCH: 8.5

This is the third in a series of posts announcing changes to the leveling and rewards systems since preseason began. Check them out to see the other changes we've made in response to your feedback.

Post 1: Leveling and Rewards - Early Impressions and Adjustments In this first post, we made high-level climbing faster and revealed a bunch of numbers to prove that the new leveling system grants more rewards than the old IP-based system (even if you just disenchant everything).

Post 2: Leveling and Rewards - Improvements to Milestone Emotes, Capsules, & FWotD In this post, we announced changes to how milestone emotes work (making them free), tweaked leveling capsules to make them give out fewer low-value shards, and made the First of the Day timer more generous.

282 Comments

ZER0 2Feb 22, 2018120 votes

Great work guys <3 Feels amazing as a player to be listened to and I think these changes are great for both parties involved. Thank you!

RiotRiot CactopusFeb 22, 201849 votes

thanks for playing our game :)

DeadUnbornFeb 22, 20181 votes

hey Cactopus I think you should explain that skin shards having "equal odds" of dropping still means more often than not you will get a cheaper skin shard, since most skins are cheap.

So for example the odds of getting dj sona, guardian udyr or pulsefire ez is 3/(X total amount of available skinshards)

RiotRiot CactopusFeb 22, 201815 votes

Yeah you're right! We just wanna make sure people know that there's not any weighting effect on skin shard tiers

BananaBankerFeb 23, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Cactopus,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=zKItWb9m,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-22T22:33:07.749+0000)

Yeah you're right! We just wanna make sure people know that there's not any weighting effect on skin shard tiers

I have been sitting on DJ soma for quite sometime I just don't ever got enough OE to redeem it, this update sure seems amazing, but from reading it shows that my current DJ sons won't be autoredeemed, I get the idea and why, but to ease us sitting players can you atleast reduce the OE required to purchase her significantly? Close to 3K OE just isn't fun and easy to grind

Capek95Feb 22, 201846 votes

wow those " You said" make this sound like a speech, and damn i was touched by the end of it. 10/10 rito

RiotRiot CactopusFeb 22, 201853 votes

AND SO, MY FELLOW RUNETERRANS: ASK NOT HOW MUCH OE YOU'LL HAVE TO GIVE FOR ULTIMATE SKIN SHARDS—ASK HOW MUCH OE THOSE SKIN SHARDS WILL GIVE YOU

The Blue RajahFeb 22, 201842 votes

I’m just going to link to this thread next time someone tries to claim “Riot never listens to feedback/they only care about money.”

cilrepylSFeb 22, 201811 votes

Wait, so if I have Hextech Annie atm but not enough essence, I can get it for free when it comes live?

RiotRiot CactopusFeb 22, 201814 votes

All these changes are just going forward, not retroactive. That's why we're announcing the change early. Generally like a two weeks heads up is how we try to do it when we announce price drops or any kind of "generosity" buff like this

Quality ContentFeb 22, 20184 votes

Oh. That feels pretty bad. SS Vayne ate a massive chunk of my OE and it only feels like a 1350 skin :/

RiotRiot CactopusFeb 22, 201814 votes

I feel ya but to be super real with you we've just gotta be able to make positive improvements to pricing/reward systems without also being forced to do a bunch of work retroactively applying systems/prices.

We're trying to set really clear precedents with stuff like this: when we announce price drops on other stuff in the store, we announce it at least a couple weeks in advance so people are given a decent heads up—but we don't do refunds or, like, retroactive reparations in those cases either.

Hope that makes sense (I know it feels like less of a homerun than the other parts of the announcement though)

Quality ContentFeb 22, 20188 votes

Difference here is I can choose when I purchase something from the store, I didn't get to choose when a mythic shard randomly popped out of a box. I couldn't ask the loot system to just wait a month before giving me a rare drop. I'm lucky enough to have had the OE to craft it but for anyone that as an ultimate shard lying around an announcement like this probably just stings.

NotSoEvilDeadFeb 22, 20185 votes

Can confirm: it does. I'll never be able to craft that skin with the current disenchant rates and ultimate cost

NotSoEvilDeadFeb 22, 20187 votes

Just change mythic/ultimate skin shards to cost 0 OE to craft and have the same disenchant value as the equivalent permanent. While the changes going forward are good, this is a huge slap in the face to people like me who are sitting on a shard they'll basically never be able to use

MihaithaFeb 22, 20187 votes

You said... when you get one of the super-rare ultimate or mythic skin drops from loot, it doesn't feel great to have to disenchant tons of skins to unlock it.

So... Ultimate and Mythic skins will now drop as auto-redeeming permanents (no orange essence required to upgrade them).

[{quoted}](name=Riot Cactopus,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=zKItWb9m,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2018-02-22T19:33:58.004+0000)

All these changes are just going forward, not retroactive. That's why we're announcing the change early. Generally like a two weeks heads up is how we try to do it when we announce price drops or any kind of "generosity" buff like this

So if you already got one of the super rare ultimate skins but can't afford to upgrade it, fear not, you will still be unable to upgrade it, but you will be able to upgrade it for free in the very unlikely event that the super rare ultimate skin will drop for you again. Yea, makes a whole lot of sense...

NotSoEvilDeadFeb 22, 201811 votes

yeah, that part makes zero sense. They could easily just change the ultimate/mythic skin shard upgrade cost to 0 OE when this update goes live

jDenzelFeb 23, 20185 votes

Just to echo what others have said here as well, all of these changes are very much appreciated. But also being someone who has an ultimate skin shard they've been sitting on for a long while and itching to unlock, any price reduction in OE upgrade cost that could go through for these existing shards would be amazing - just to go along with the spirit of these changes (given that's not too much retroactive work). Especially considering that big chunks of OE from disenchanting ultimate or mythic skin shards will be harder to come by since those will auto-redeem now instead.

Burger MandenFeb 23, 20185 votes

I agree, and i feel the same way. Got the Elementalist Lux and i wasted $20 for some chests and still miss OE to activate it. REEE

SwarovskoFeb 22, 20189 votes

I know it sounds like a joke but I almost cried 1. because I'm listening to Old Money by Lana del Rey and 2. because with this "you said"-"so" trick it feels like you are my mother and you care about me. I love you.

https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/limitedgenerousbanteng

RiotRiot CactopusFeb 22, 20186 votes

damn lana del rey is so good

firing up spotify now

ARE YOU PC BROFeb 22, 20182 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-discussion/UAqfPgGQ-karma-by-laner-del-rey <3

RiotRiot CactopusFeb 22, 20185 votes

lol i upvoted

Toyota AE85Feb 23, 20188 votes

So what happens if we already have a Ultimate skin shard in our inventory? Do we still need to craft it?

HamuFeb 23, 20187 votes

Ultimate and Mythic skins will now drop as auto-redeeming permanents (no orange essence required to upgrade them). If you already own the skin, you'll be able to disenchant the permanent for orange essence. DJ Sona permanents, for example, will disenchant for 1625 OE

What happens if i already have an Ultimate or Mythic skinshard in my inventory? Would be a shame to let them sit there, right?

Star GuardianFeb 22, 20186 votes

Good changes, interesting to see all the drop rates.

Takatsuki YayoiFeb 22, 20186 votes

If you're sitting on an ultimate/mythic shard right now, will it be automatically upgraded once the change goes through? I know a few people sitting on ultimates including myself.

RiotRiot CactopusFeb 22, 20186 votes

(copying from above) Nah, the change is just for stuff that drops starting with 8.5—that's why we're announcing the change early. Generally like a two weeks heads up is how we try to do it when we announce price drops or any kind of "generosity" buff like this

Rayjay RedfangFeb 22, 20182 votes

Tfw you got the last ultimate skin last month and the last epic skin last week*[sg-lulu]* probably should have waited before I used the shards

KarshFeb 23, 20187 votes

Tfw throughout the whole history of the loot system you only got your first ultimate skin shard last week and you notice this post

[sg-janna]

DeathBurstFeb 23, 20187 votes

The two weeks notice feels fine when you choose to do something (like buying a Mastery Level 7), either you get your stuff right now at the current price, or you're patient and you get the discount. It's fair.

But the thing is, we didn't choose to get a Mythic/Ultimate drop when we opened a Chest like 3 months ago, and if we still didn't enchant the Shard after all this time, it's for a reason. In the case of Mythic/Ultimate Shards, the choice we can make isn't getting them or not, it's enchanting them or not.

I mean, I understand where Riot comes from, but I still can't help but feel disappointed by this specific point.

(Of course, I'm super glad about all the other changes, thank you very much for all the rest :) )

Khaleen The PigFeb 24, 20186 votes

do I disenchant 16 skins to unlock my Spirit Guard Udyr or do I disenchant it to unlock half a skin? hmmmm

ThananFeb 22, 20185 votes

Hey Cactopus, I currently have a dj sona shard that ive been working on unlocking for quite awhile. Since it is already in my inventory, will it unlock automatically? Will I need to do something to get it without spending my OE?

Raw BerserkerFeb 23, 20185 votes

Well I'm glad there are some improvements, there's a couple things niggling me here.

Orange essence was essentially gutted value-wise and your justification for it by having us get more skin shards feels like it won't come to fruition in such a way that the value of skin shards is retained from before the 'rework'. Having ultimate and mythic shards unlock straight away is nice, but chances are those aren't gonna be in my chest, instead I'll get epic and legendaries at best which will probably never see the light of day seeing as how extraordinarily hard it is to get key fragments and how lacking in skin shards event missions are (other than the Lunar Revel missions recently, which had their own problem with the chromas).

Next thing is on the support page for hextech crafting, it says if you leave a match you can't get a chest. Does this include leaving temporarily? I've had multiple occasions where there was an issue that I could only fix by relaunching the game. Does that mean I'll be penalised for that, even if I do well enough in that game to get an S rank because I had to fix something in the only way possible?

Lastly, would the extra orange essence given with wards ever happen for emotes too? I'll be honest, getting an emote feels about the same as getting a ward to me, and about 90% of people I've asked feel the same way, but at least you can disenchant wards whereas you have no choice with emotes.

I'm only bringing these things up because clearly you care about both the system and player base, otherwise you wouldn't have made any changes at all really.

UnrefõrmedFeb 24, 20185 votes

As much as this gives off "good guy rito" vibes, I'm certain they came to the conclusion that this would only increase box purchases and thus profit

They wouldn't have even touched the issue if it had been internally concluded that making hextech boxes "feel better" would decrease profits at all

JackFejFeb 22, 20184 votes

If you already own ultimate or mythic skin shard before the update, will you still be able to upgrade for free?

ShinigamiOtakuFeb 22, 20184 votes

what about the ultimate skin shards ive been sitting on forever cuz it seems it will take years to gather the OE? will those also be free or will i still sit on them

PopcornBunniFeb 23, 20184 votes

If I have an ultimate or mythic skin shard already, will it be able to unlock as a permanent in 8.5?

CGHCGHFeb 23, 20184 votes

Also, if it doesn't give the permanent automatically will we be able to get it through support tickets, or do we still have to use essence?

WilsonMagnaFeb 25, 20184 votes

I appreciate the reduction in cost of upgrading masteries but it is still a ridiculous amount. Comparing BE upgrade cost to using shards (90-1280BE) using BE directly is exorbitant. Something along the lines of 500-1000BE to upgrade to mastery 6 and 1000-1500 to mastery 7 seems far more reasonable otherwise I'll just stick to only upgrading if I roll shards for champions I want to upgrade.

OneLastManFeb 23, 20183 votes

So I have DJ Sona ready to be upgraded. But would it automatically be redeemed in the new patch?

ENRAG3DCHICKENFeb 24, 20183 votes

Skin sales must be off ... generosity buffs needed to placate the masses

Mr BeardmanFeb 24, 20183 votes

Sorry, but while I like the idea around most of these changes the fact that the change to the ultimate and mythical skins isn't retroactive is rather bs. I got rid of a pulsefire ez shard because it would cost too many shards to get, and tbh I don't like playing ez anyway. But literally 2 weeks ago I get a shard for spirit guard udyr (a champ I love to play) but sit with the same dilemma. It costs a fortune of oe to unlock it, and you barely get enough oe on disenchant to do anything with. It will not hurt you guys at riot one bit to make the change to ultimate and mythical shards retroactive since we either got the shard for free through playing or spent money on chests to get it. I mean this is legit like the old man on the Geico commercial with the dollar on the fishing hook saying "ooh, you almost had it; you gotta be quicker than that!"

IsteryaFeb 25, 20183 votes

Really glad for all these changes, but like many other people i feel kinda left behind because other ppl who will get an ultimate will have it automatically activated and i will have to disenchant my ultimate shard because it keeps the same huge price :|

Handmade SausageFeb 28, 20183 votes

You said...... "generosity" buff So..... :D:D:D::D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D XDDD :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
You said........hextech chest - 50 % skin shard. 25 % champion shard. 10 % emote. 11.5 % ward. You can't open three chests in a row without dropping at least one skin shard. This raises the effective drop rate of skin shards to roughly 57 percent. So.....1st opened chest - skin of the lowest orange essence value. chests number 2, 3 , 4, 5, 6 - champion shards

I know those are marketing tricks so u can get more $$$, but still, at least be 3 % more honest with us.