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Assassin Roster Update - Rengar Direction

RiotRiotRepertoir··1 votes·286,994 views

Hi everyone,

It probably comes as no surprise to most that Rengar is one of the assassins getting an update in the preseason. When you think of champions in League that are capable of “one-shotting” you, Rengar is one of the first that comes to mind. In this update, we’ll be making sizeable changes to how the Pridestalker takes down his prey. This will include more opportunities for opponents to anticipate and react to his attacks, but also making his combat options more ferocious and less predictable.

So let’s get into the kinds of change we can expect to see for him:

More ceremony and depth to Thrill of the Hunt: One of the reasons Rengar is so frustrating to play against is that it feels like the game is trying to give you information about what’s going on around you when he’s using Thrill of the Hunt, but the information is so minimal (and so late) that it often leaves you wondering why you got any information at all. Expect Thrill of the Hunt to change in ways that gives opponents more meaningful play against it, but also in ways that give Rengar tools and options to outwit and outmaneuver his opponents rather than needing to be so brute force about things.

Some new spells (or significant changes to existing spells) on Rengar’s base kit: Rengar’s current kit strongly incentivizes him to use all of his spells immediately, and he can drop his whole base kit on you in a matter of .25 seconds. Some of this may be the nature of the Ferocity system, which tells you to max your Ferocity ASAP, but a large part of it is also that his Q and W have very little context as to how to optimize them effectively. Rengar players deserve adrenaline-pumping, healthbar-chunking button presses, but they shouldn’t all come out in the same instant, and they should have degrees of failure and success. His new empowered W is looking to be a game-changer.

Changes to the Ferocity system: The Ferocity system on Rengar’s kit is one of the standout points of uniqueness on the character, but it has some flaws in its current version. Because Rengar needs to build five Ferocity to get an empowered spell, and he only has three spells to build with, he can’t rely on getting to max Ferocity in a fight if he starts from zero. Thus, expert Rengar players usually optimize by approaching a fight with four or five Ferocity that they’ve built up against a minion or monster. Ferocity should have to be built within a fight, but Rengar should also be able to reasonably expect that he can get to the first empowered spell quickly and consistently. Expect Ferocity to be a mechanic that you make decisions around within a fight, rather than before it.

Adjustments to the Bonetooth Necklace: Bonetooth Necklace has a really strong fantasy behind it, but its current mechanics are just… off. First of all, Rengar is supposed to be all about conquering the strongest beasts out there, but given the current mechanics of Bonetooth, he’s more often best off just murdering the same unfortunate victim over and over again. If that was the only oddness to the thing, it might be acceptable for gameplay purposes, but the reward structure is also problematic. Upgrades like “Rengar now jumps farther with his leap” and “Rengar runs faster during R” are problematic. For example, if Rengar’s jump range should be longer, we should make it the default and let opponents get used to it. Ultimately, Bonetooth Necklace should be more about dominance over all opponents, and the upgrades it provides should be powerful, but they shouldn’t significantly alter spell mechanics or force opponents to relearn his spell ranges.

A champion that doesn’t live and die by the bugs it encounters on a game-to-game basis: This isn’t really about gameplay mechanics changes, but Rengar is essentially getting rebuilt from scratch under the hood. It’s important that your success as a player isn’t dependent upon whether your E decides to fire or not.

And that should mostly bring everyone up to date concerning the direction we’re taking things! Feel free to leave your questions/comments below, and I (or someone else on the team) will swing back around to them shortly.

Cheers, Repertoir

805 Comments

SpookyTheDog64 votes

when you update him, dont forget to update the HEAD OF Khazix when you do, because when Khazix win, he get the fourth evolution and its much more OP then the current item, and giveing him boost like the fourth evolution would be good :) PLZ RITO SEE MY MSG

RiotRiotRepertoir46 votes

Agreed. Kha'Zix's reward has been so much better for quite some time now.

Corporate Golfer7 votes

{quoted}

Agreed. Kha'Zix's reward has been so much better for quite some time now.

What's the reason for this interaction still existing in the game? No other two champions have such a meaningful easter egg and it's a bit dumb for whoever is ahead to become significantly more powerful just because there's another specific champion in the game. It's hidden power (which you're supposedly against), not friendly to new players, and doesn't seem to have any justifiable reason for still existing. Please seriously consider removing this interaction.

RoodToob15 votes

Although not as rewarding, Ashe, Sejuani and Lissandra have a similar quest actually. It isn't well known, but it got added with the Howling abyss and Lissandra

Bodkins Odds13 votes

Jinx and the Piltover Coppers (Caitlyn and Vi) have a similar one, the rewards (extra gold per kill [and I think a kill counter]) are more tangible but not as satisfying as the Freljordian Crown.

RiotRiotRepertoir49 votes

It's cool and rare, and it plays up a rivalry in a special way that is unlike any other in League.

Popppyseed43 votes

Why arent there more quests like this? There could be ones for like Shen and Zed or TwistedFate and Graves . They could have rewards that dont effect gameplay like the crown Ashe/Sejuani/Lissandra get.

Garrotte19 votes

I'm really disappointed by these changes. As someone who loves the random, unpredictable nature of rengar's abilities, I'm honestly quite annoyed this key mechanic is being removed from his identity.

RiotRiotRepertoir15 votes

What is this in reference to?

Garrotte31 votes

Living when I get ganked because his whole kit locks up and he can't use abilities

Wheatloaf7 votes

The joke


Heads

ÂzaIea18 votes

But... But.. Live or die by the bug is the most lore accurate part of Rengar!!!

RiotRiotRepertoir11 votes

As long as it's the only one :)

RiotRiot MEMEMEMEME14 votes

When we do roster updates I spend a fair amount of time scouring the internet for frustrating issues and looking for historical problems. After putting all of it together I just said to Repertoir "We need to rebuild this dude from the ground up"

Reddit, rengar mains, LoL Forums, we used everything to figure out what makes him feel bad to play as so they don't come back in the update.

Linna Excel1 votes

If he needed to be rebuilt, why not slot him for a VGU?

Doozku4 votes

When he means rebuilt, I think hr means under the hood. The abilities will be the same but his spaghetti code will be gone.

RiotRiotRepertoir15 votes

This is correct. Rebuilding the characters scripts is a task that I can get through as a designer, and my time is less scarce than most of our artists. If I had to come up with a shiny new model for Rengar, you guys would absolutely not be happy with the result :p.

Decrit16 votes

Potato with knives skin confirmed

Malicious Metal17 votes

So, is Rengar going to remain an Assassin or will his rework open him up to build more akin to a skirmisher or bruiser.

RiotZenonTheStoic55 votes

His update is coming out as part of the assassins update, so... uh... yes he will remain an assassin.

SquashCannon8 votes

{quoted}

His update is coming out as part of the assassins update, so... uh... yes he will remain an assassin.

So who is the snarky asshole now?

Cheekynorth9 votes

And now he's a diver...

Hellioning11 votes

Are you gonna do a update post on the changes you're thinking about for stealth? Because that's the real issue with Rengar.

RiotRiotRepertoir24 votes

I expect that someone will make a post about some of the upcoming changes to stealth, but I'm not sure when. To the best of my knowledge, there are still quite a few moving parts there.

That said, Rengar's update is currently operating under the conditions of the new stealth system.

Le Furr4 votes

Would that affect others champs who aren't necessarily assassins, such as Teemo Teemo and Twitch Twitch ?

RiotRiotRepertoir14 votes

Yeah, any champion that currently becomes stealthed would probably be affected.

Nameless Voice3 votes

I assume this is talking about the standard "invisibility" stealth. Does it affect Evelynn's distance-based "sneaky" stealth in any way?

RiotRiotRepertoir10 votes

It should hit both.

ComfortablyNumb66 votes

Why would you remove the one shot from rengar? It's literally why you chose rengar over other champions. A lot of other champions can oneshot you so why is rengar being targeted. Also why is getting one shotted viewed as ''unfair''?

Annoxis27 votes

If you get one-shotted, as Rengar does it, you can't react. If you can't react, there is no counterplay and this is unfair. If there is no counterplay, this bad game design. Bad design should be changed.

Spideraxe4 votes

Will Rengar's E functionality change as its a pretty good spell on assassin that feels fair

RiotRiotRepertoir13 votes

E and passive Leap are likely the spells that will change the least on the kit.

Spideraxe2 votes

How do you feel about it being a situational hard cc on an assassin

RiotRiotRepertoir9 votes

As long as Q's damage is high enough that there's a big tradeoff to using E instead, it seems appropriate.

Chromatic Eagle2 votes

Lately you guys have been adding utility ults on some champions. Will Assassins ever get one of those? Instead of damage?

RiotRiotRepertoir28 votes

I actually tried one out on Rengar! He made his whole team stealthed around him. It, uh... didn't last.

Rengar's a selfish champion, and though he should hopefully be effective at doing things to help his team win the game, he does them for himself.

GhostOfShrimpmas14 votes

{quoted}

I actually tried one out on Rengar! He made his whole team stealthed around him. It, uh... didn't last.

I never knew how much I wanted Stealth Illaoi Ult Tentakills until you told me I couldn't have it.

RiotRiotRepertoir35 votes

Yeah... when Annie could just walk up to someone in stealth and drop a bear bomb on them, we had to call that one off...

Timel3ss 41 votes

The unseen Tibbers is the deadliest

Kobold4 votes

Here is the big question, What are you going to do if his kit has the same problem even after his rework? Are we to wait another few years to see some work done to fix the solution or just minor nerfs until he is where he is now?

Honest Question due to what I am replying to is almost exactly what riot said the last time he was reworked.

RiotRiotRepertoir15 votes

This update will have much more work in it than anything he's gotten in the past. We're investing more in it this time so that we won't have to revisit it in the future (except for potential balance work).

GhostOfShrimpmas10 votes

Isn't that basically the idea that went into Skarner and Mordekaiser roster update reworks, which ended up being a terrible time to rework a champion?

RiotRiotRepertoir17 votes

Good question, and I'll clarify. In the Skarner and Mordekaiser updates, we tried to make too much change with too few art resources available. We're devoting more resources to each champion this time around (since the size of the team is just bigger than it was in Juggernaut days) so that when we want to make ambitious changes, we're not making unnecessary compromises.

If we were doing Juggernauts again today, Skarner, for example, would probably have also received a new Q and/or W that have more interesting gameplay.

blackfootedfox10 votes

As a lvl 5 Skarner, I'd rather change his passive and maybe his Q over his W. Though, you've probably heard the feedback about the passive since people have posted it on the boards more than once.

I will admit that Skarner feels much better to play on TT and HA than on the Rift

Realsteel971 votes

[deleted]

RiotRiotRepertoir29 votes

item 3070 Urgot item 3070

AMYS GRAVE14 votes

Rep, we appreciate you chillin with us out here.

Also, the urgod does not weep. I dont think his eyes are capable anymore. He more, leaks.

RiotRiotRepertoir34 votes

Poor Urgot. Fortunately, I happen to know that guy that's starting his rework pretty well. I'll pass our sympathies along.

DwarvenGiant8 votes

I know that things can change at any given moment, especially with how Yorick isn't 100% done yet, and all that, but... did you just tease that Urgot is being worked on by at least someone from ChampUP for now? Even if it's just in some very early "pre-ideation" phase? :>

######('Big Urgot enthusiast' is part of who I am.~)

RiotRiotRepertoir13 votes

Possibly even someone in this very thread...

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