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Quinn Changes Coming Soon - Strike from the Sky!

RiotXenogenic··1 votes·78,180 views

Hey folks! As Meddler mentioned, we’ve been looking at ways to improve Quinn in the short-term, so this post is going to outline some changes we’ve been testing and are coming to PBE next week. The changes are not currently targeted for 8.5, but we’d love to get your feedback as soon as possible.

https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/8.4.1/img/champion/Quinn.png

So, with that said, here are the goals for our changelist:

  • Increase her overall power, particularly by late game, without increasing her ability to bully in lane
  • Improve the quality of life for Quinn players by fixing a number of bugs, especially with her ultimate
  • Reduce the number of rules and exceptions around Quinn’s ult so it’s more fun to use
  • Shift a little of her early game power into late game power

And here are the changes we’ve been testing:

Passive - Harrier - Quality of life improvement and power increase

  • Auto-attacks that are already in-flight will now trigger and consume the Harrier mark

**Base Stats **- Shift some of her early game power into late game power

  • Starting AD reduced: 62 >>> 59
  • AD per level increased : 2.4 >>> 3 (AD at 18: 103 >>> 110)

R - Behind Enemy Lines - Bug fixes, quality of life improvements, and teamfight usability improvement

  • Fixed a bug that would sometimes prevent Skystrike from firing
  • Skystrike now applies her Harrier mark to all enemy champions hit
  • Fixed a bug where Skystrike would deal double damage if fired by re-activating her R
  • Channeling no longer breaks when taking damage
  • Removed the in-combat state that would refresh R’s cooldown every time combat was entered
  • Taking damage from non-minions while channeling or while Behind Enemy Lines is active no longer breaks the channel or form. Instead, the movement speed bonus is removed for 2 seconds. Taking damage from minions no longer has any effect.
  • Fixed a bug causing Behind Enemy Lines to immediately end when used while attacking a turret
  • Fixed a bug that would cause movement orders to be removed or ignored while casting Behind Enemy Lines
  • Returning to the fountain now automatically casts Behind Enemy Lines if it has been learned

As I said above, this is not currently slated for 8.5, so we have some time to discuss it and test it on PBE. Please let us know what you think. Thanks!

“Sometimes I swear that bird is just showing off.” - Quinn

301 Comments

Carnicore33 votes

After level 6, could Quinn spawn with R active? Every Quinn always presses R before leaving the base.

KestrelGirl5 votes

{quoted}

After level 6, could Quinn spawn with R active? Every Quinn always presses R before leaving the base.

She already does respawn with it on. She does not, however, get it on recall.

RiotXenogenic64 votes

As others said, she does on revive but not on recall. I'll look into making that change as well.

Fuzzkat13 votes

Automatically swapping to R on recall would be...oooh mama...

https://i.imgur.com/hd7rC6V.gif

Thank you based Xenogenic, you are pretty much the bird man from hey arnold, a friend to all of bird-kind. You understand us.

https://i.imgur.com/SOa0T3k.gif

SenpaiAzir2 votes

{quoted}

After level 6, could Quinn spawn with R active? Every Quinn always presses R before leaving the base.

I thought it does this already? I remember playing Quinn a couple times and I always spawned with R after lvl 6.

Valor Bot4 votes

Nope, only on death.

CSDragon10 votes

That's what spawn means

ModWulf Helhammer32 votes

OH MY GOD THIS IS THE BEST DAY EVER

Simply Nora31 votes

  1. Would not trade 3 ad early for 7 ad late. Quinn starting ad is already low compared to other ADCs. With the recent -5 damage to minions, that can be hard to last hit. Fact is Quinn is only a bully in lane against brusier, against pure tanks she can't do anything anyways. If you had to reduce her early game power, I rather you lower the passive proc damage very slightly. This way, we can still CS properly.

  2. With the nerf to duskblade coming, revert Skystrike damage back to 100% ad. Skystrike damage is so low you can't even last hit minions with it. This change was made because duskblade was too strong on Quinn anyways.

  3. Q blind currently has a delay, make it so that the blind applies instantly as soon as Q lands.

Some things I want to clarify. With the R changes. If I'm understanding this correctly, Quinn now has 4 passive proc in one rotation? That does seem like a big buff, when dealing with tanks at least. Personally, I like the fact that Quinn is a niche pick. Quality of life changes, bug fixes and revert skystrike damage is good enough for me. I'm an experience Quinn main btw.

AoSoldier4 votes

Skystrike just feels so negligible in general. Her ultimate is just a taxi service, and people say this enough that riot should consider looking into it. Hopefully, at the VERY least, changing the awful visual of Valor awkwardly carrying Quinn around.

KestrelGirl28 votes

Nerfing Quinn's early game - her single true strong point - is not the way to approach this IMO. I feel like there are better ways to mess with her power spikes.

The ult changes, however, are BEAUTIFUL. I'm really happy with this and expect most of my fellow jaded Quinn appreciators to feel the same way.

Crazy idea time: The only thing that needs to be done now is to switch it - visually only - from Valor carrying Quinn, back to Valor. Just looks less clunky that way. She'd need a new model/texture for Heartseeker Valor, but the files for Val's animations are still in the game, as are - I assume - Valor's textures and models for all her other skins.

Penta Ace10 votes

I like your idea about having it just be valor tbh. Riot said that some players felt that it was thematically off because you're switching into a bird out of nowhere, but I like it. It makes more sense to me than her bird carrying her imo lol.

Valor Bot16 votes

The only thing that needs to be done now is to switch it - visually only - from Valor carrying Quinn, back to Valor.

Just wanna add my voice to this and say I'd love this too, if only for the visual/thematic improvements — Valor looked so cool flying freely on his own whereas the current ult looks and feels quite silly. Heck we could finally get Valor's portrait on the minimap back :)

Bricelar13 votes

Agreed! I understand the thematic disconnect, but having Valor carry Quinn just looks silly.

CSDragon4 votes

It's 3 AD, and the harrier buff is most powerful in the early game

we'll be fine

Captain Quinn7 votes

Probably one of the first times I'm commenting on a forum! And as a Quinn main I would also like to add my voice about getting Valor back instead of having Valor carrying Quinn as it just feels very awkward!

Mz H Nymph27 votes

My two wishes:

  1. I'd like to be able to attack wards and plants while Behind Enemy Lines is active without losing speed. item 3117
  2. Add bonus damage to Skystrike against minions and monster. A level 18 Quinn Quinn with 450 AD and a critical strike chance of 100% is not going to kill a single caster minion using her skystrike.
Aikochu8 votes

I honestly dont like the attack wards and plants while in ultie. Just cuz i feel like thatd give quinn too much of an advantage but #2 i can 100% agree with

Rework Quinn25 votes

Wow. I'm really excited for this.

Regardless of how high the impact of these changes is, thanks a lot for giving Quinn some attention. Her community really appreciates it.

Penta Ace13 votes

I love how Quinn mains are like a little tight-knit community that some people forget exists lol :P I guess that's just what happens when very few people play a certain champ. Excited for these changes as well :)

QuadraKev24 votes

Auto-attacks that are already in-flight will now trigger and consume the Harrier mark

Thank god, I've been wanting this for years

TFS Sonofastoic22 votes

Hello Riot Xenogenic!

I really like the potential of these changes!

I appreciate the work towards making Quinn better for team fighting!! I know one of the largest struggles playing Quinn in team fights is being able to get any damage off with any degree of safety.. Is there any possibility her ultimate could give her bonus range only for proccing harrier? Maybe 0/25/50 (or spicy 0/50/100)? That would give her a reliable way to do some damage in team fights without making her laning any more oppressive than it already is. It also thematically shows her relationship with Valor, and playwise would keep her differentiated from the likes of Tristana or Caitlyn!

Please keep up the good work on this champ - she's so important to many of us!

MaatiSama11 votes

GIVE VALOR BACK GIVE VALOR PICK

Neahkahnie10 votes

Quinn's original kit (where she swapped out with bird) definitely needed work, but it was quite fun, and required intelligence to use well. Her updated kit is far less interesting and took away much more then it gave. I think the game has changed enough from her initial release you could just revert the changes, tweak her numbers, and she would work fine.

Whatever happens to the character from here, I hope it gives her and her opponents more options, not less.

Solari Fortune9 votes

Auto-attacks that are already in-flight will now trigger and consume the Harrier mark

Best change ever

Valor Bot9 votes

This is an incredible improvement for Quinn in the short term! She's had so many feels-bad interactions for the longest time (Harrier proc issue, all the restrictions on her ultimate) that I can't wait to see how fluid she plays alongside the buffs to her team fighting power/late game. Obviously this doesn't fix her long-standing core issues (she's still on the list for a VGU, yes? :D) but will really help her overall slipperiness and late game power.

Really excited for the Skystrike changes as well. Thanks for the attention guys :)

Shıma9 votes

Just make her a melee Assassin like she was meant to be. Or give me back her old ult. I'm not a Quinn main but I feel for the community, she's a fun champ and it pains me to see her in this state. Pecking people to death as Valor was the best. </3 Quinn

Gwenavere8 votes

I never saw her intended design as a melee assassin, but rather as a ranged counterpart to Talon. You had a similar lane pattern, and a high cd ult to go in for the kill. The problem is her current state totally ditched that go in for the kill element, and she's been a problem ever since. I agree they need to pull her back in an assassin direction (because honestly that's what she's always been best at), but I don't think her range needs to be sacrificed to do it successfully.

RiotXenogenic9 votes

Edited to add the following updates for (R) Behind Enemy Lines

  • Fixed a bug causing Behind Enemy Lines to immediately end when used while attacking a turret
  • Fixed a bug that would cause movement orders to be removed or ignored while casting Behind Enemy Lines
  • Returning to the fountain now automatically casts Behind Enemy Lines if it has been learned
Azjin1 votes

Just wondering, does this mean that if you back with low mana and the intent to teleport immediately into combat, it'll take longer to recover to full mana before leaving base?

EDIT: Ignore this, just remembered cancelling ult mid-channel refunds the mana.

RiotXenogenic3 votes

{quoted}

Just wondering, does this mean that if you back with low mana and the intent to teleport immediately into combat, it'll take longer to recover to full mana before leaving base?

No. It's not currently charging you the mana when you gain the ult by going back to the fountain.

Valor Bot3 votes

Has there been any talk about Quinn’s ult visuals by any chance? It’s a non-gameplay concern, but I’d love to known if you guys have seen our complaints about it or if you just disagree with changing it/don’t have the scope at the moment to revert it back to the pre-rework version

RiotXenogenic7 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valor Bot,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=6G472GTv,comment-id=006c000100000000,timestamp=2018-02-27T19:08:17.461+0000)

Has there been any talk about Quinn’s ult visuals by any chance? It’s a non-gameplay concern, but I’d love to known if you guys have seen our complaints about it or if you just disagree with changing it/don’t have the scope at the moment to revert it back to the pre-rework version

We've been reading the feedback and seen the complaints, but modifying it is out of scope for this project, unfortunately. We have a lot of projects in flight and these Quinn changes are something we could do without negatively impacting them as they travel down the path to shipping.

Proksima5 votes

First thank you for listeling, it s great to disguting. For me, the rework of quinn( the ult) was the worse decisions of RIOT ever. Quinn was always a niche champ, played by somes mains( they are maybe all here x) ) . Why we loved her? because we BECAME VALOR !! The concept is insane! So great to be have 2 champ on 1: quinn AND valor. Now it s quinn and her taxi valor :(

If you want a champ like this, go to create a new one. But we lost the spirit of quinn with the rework :/

E Zaire1 votes

Will these changes affect how Hard CC or Loss of Control affects her ult?

RiotXenogenic3 votes

[{quoted}](name=E Zaire,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=6G472GTv,comment-id=006c000100000001,timestamp=2018-02-27T20:41:57.218+0000)

Will these changes affect how Hard CC or Loss of Control affects her ult?

No - hard CC will break it still

no safeword5 votes

The change to the passive proves that you either listened to the community or played Quinn before, which is good.

Because the champion is this intricate, I think you need to clarify which role you want Quinn to be seen in, before adressing anything else (much like the balance team did with ekko and lucian). Just completely gut her capability of being an adc or a top laner, and make sure that she is viable in at least one of these roles. From there you can then build up and add to her "secondary" role, as was done for ekko! From playing her I think the major flaws she has in top is her lategame uselessness if she fails to carry the game 1v9 (this issue is sorta addressed here, not sure how the extra ad is going to feel). For ad her main problems are her range, which is a problem for quinn all troughout the game, then again I can understand how Quinn's range is hard to look at because increasing it too much would make her op together with her E.

tldr is don't be scared to change the champion more drastically (some ad and QOL won't resurrect her), but be sure of why you do it :D

RiotXenogenic9 votes

{quoted}

The change to the passive proves that you either listened to the community or played Quinn before, which is good.

Quinn isn't one of my highly played champions, so that particular change came out of feedback from people who love playing Quinn.

Marisa4 votes

I feel like some of these changes look very much like almost straight buffs, but I'm not actually sure Quinn needs major strength increases right now. According to champion.gg, Quinn's winrate top lane is one of the highest right now at ~53%. Will you be watching her performance on 8.4 and evaluating how much strength she needs for this change?

I will say that the quality of life improvements are much welcomed.

KestrelGirl16 votes

{quoted}

I feel like some of these changes look very much like almost straight buffs, but I'm not actually sure Quinn needs major strength increases right now. According to champion.gg, Quinn's winrate top lane is one of the highest right now at ~53%. Will you be watching her performance on 8.4 and evaluating how much strength she needs for this change?

I will say that the quality of life improvements are much welcomed.

Her high win rate is mostly due to a pretty damn low play rate. Most of the people playing her are dedicated mains. In many mains' opinions, though, she's not doing well right now.

SLIT THROAT HAHA7 votes

yeah quinn feels really bad atm

RiotXenogenic18 votes

Yes, absolutely. Overall, we are looking to increase her win/loss but not by much.

Corvłn11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Xenogenic,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=6G472GTv,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2018-02-24T02:45:18.882+0000)

Yes, absolutely. Overall, we are looking to increase her win/loss but not by much.

bbb..buffs? For.. Quinn mains??

https://i.imgur.com/zhWAZqX.png

CSDragon15 votes

Bruh what are you talking about, Quinn is in an almost unplayable state right now. There aren't even enough games on OPGG to give her a winrate.

Besides, Champion.gg's been busted for over a year now. Look at Lolaytics. You'll notice Quiinn's playrate is below 1% and her winrate has WILD swings based pretty much on who's playing Quinn that day.

HalcyonDweller4 votes

Does this mean that Quinn won't be getting the rework that would be needed to make her and Valor feel like an actual team?

Or are these just some improvements to make her feel better to use until the rework?

RiotXenogenic6 votes

{quoted}

Does this mean that Quinn won't be getting the rework that would be needed to make her and Valor feel like an actual team?

Or are these just some improvements to make her feel better to use until the rework?

This is just a nip & tuck and doesn't exclude her from a VGU in the future. I have no idea when/if that will occur, though.

Azjin3 votes

Gonna edit this with a full response later, but quick question: Do Runaan's Hurricane secondary bolts proc Harrier marks? If not, can they (now that mid-air autos will)?

RiotXenogenic17 votes

{quoted}

Gonna edit this with a full response later, but quick question: Do Runaan's Hurricane secondary bolts proc Harrier marks? If not, can they (now that mid-air autos will)?

Yes they do

FlashnFuse2 votes

I'm looking forward to these changes! I will post more thoughts when I have more time!

Are you going to be monitoring this for feedback for a while?

RiotXenogenic7 votes

{quoted}

I'm looking forward to these changes! I will post more thoughts when I have more time!

Are you going to be monitoring this for feedback for a while?

Yep, absolutely :)

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