Removal of the topic - "Is the RIOT want to kill his game?"

Neosphoros·Jan 30, 2019·2 votes·4,535 views

My thread "Is the RIOT want to kill his game? What the F is wrong with this game? Where the F is balance?" was deleted from the board becouse:

We've recently removed your post for violating the Boards Universal Rules, particularly regarding Naming and Shaming.

However my thread was not shaming players but - impersonal RIOT players selecting system... which have nothing to do with real person so it has nothing to do with:

As the Boards is a community platform, we encourage posts that foster discussion and discourage any posts that may lead to witch-hunting or personal attacks. If you believe someone is violating the Terms of Use or Summoner's Code, we ask that you instead utilize the post-match report feature when possible; otherwise, you can submit your report as a ticket to Riot Games Player Support, and the Player Support team will be able to review the case further.

There is no "witch-hunting" and there is no "personal attacks", system is not a person.

The purpose of my thread was to show that it is not players who maight be responsible for some of our lost games, but - RIOT player selecting system, which may choose not experienced-enough players to play with and against others.

I was not blaiming players, I was blaiming "impersonal" system which is nothing to do with RIOT board rules.

Even this specific rule can not be assessed to this case becouse we can not be sure if we are playing with real people... people we are playing with are not natural person. They are virtual avatars not werified by any of idetification method so it can not be assesses that somebody was shamed. Becouse of that it means that we may play with bots and not real people.

The names of those "avatars" was only presented as a proof of wrongly functioning system. Nowhere in my thread I'm not puting guilty on players, but only on system - so it can not be assessed as a action against real person and against any rules.

Morover only by presenting those "avatars" names - other players can werify if information I have present are true (by checking details about them, about theirs experience).

Players from my pictures are from different server so 99% of you will be not able to meet them in game... moreover - nameing them and shameing them?... who may want to do it? even - for waht if it is about system issue?
Servers from NA, SA and EU do not werifying players so we even can not be sure if we are plying with real people and not bots.
Because no 2 - even if "theoretical" specific players maight be "guilty" of some issue, in case of no-werification server - players can simply change their names to evade any type of obstacles like naming and shaming.
Im shameing system not players so even those players exist as a people why somebody should even try to name and shame them?
Words like "nameing" and "shameing" from the board rules are related to situation when somebody will try to penalityze some "specific" players. If the thread is not about those specific players and if there is no any sign about untolerance (in the meaning of "nameing" and "shameing") about them and if the subject ot the thread is about different issue - board rule is not met.

Therefore, please to recover my thread.

25 Comments

Electro522Jan 30, 201913 votes

Happened to take a look at the thread removed in question.

You specifically had several pictures of lost matches where you edited the picture in order to highlight specific things you wanted readers to look at, but did not cross out any names.

Posting pictures of end game screens is fine, but we require that you cross out names of players, specifically to avoid naming and shaming.

NeosphorosJan 30, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Happened to take a look at the thread removed in question.

You specifically had several pictures of lost matches where you edited the picture in order to highlight specific things you wanted readers to look at, but did not cross out any names.

Posting pictures of end game screens is fine, but we require that you cross out names of players, specifically to avoid naming and shaming.

Players from my pictures are from different server so 99% of you will be not able to meet them in game and penalityze them... moreover - nameing them and shameing them?... who may want to do it? even - for waht if it is about system issue?
Servers from NA, SA and EU do not werifying players so we even can not be sure if we are plying with real people and not bots.
Because no 2 - even if "theoretical" specific players maight be "guilty" of some issue, in case of no-werification server - players can simply change their names to evade any type of obstacles like naming and shaming.
Im shameing system - not players so even those players exist as a people why somebody should even try to name and shame them?
Words like "nameing" and "shameing" from the board rules are related to situation when somebody will try to penalityze some "specific" players. If the thread is not about those specific players and if there is no any sign about untolerance (in the meaning of "nameing" and "shameing") about them and if the subject ot the thread is about different issue - board rule is not met.

Electro522Jan 30, 20198 votes

It doesn't matter if players from our server will run into them or not. Everyone in those pictures can potentially use the Boards, and there is even a chance that they do (such as yourself).

Our job as moderators is to make the Boards as inviting as possible, and it won't feel very inviting if someone sees a thread where they are being accused of being a bot.

And before you say "I'm not accusing the players, I'm accusing the system." everyone here knows that that is just your excuse for trying to work around our rules. All we are asking is that you be more considerate of others, and just cross out the names.

NeosphorosJan 30, 20191 votes

{quoted}

It doesn't matter if players from our server will run into them or not. Everyone in those pictures can potentially use the Boards, and there is even a chance that they do (such as yourself).

You are F cheaters and manipulants... and everyone have to follow the rulles, but not you. You have create ZOO for players and you keeping players in cages and you forceing us to believe that those cages are good for us and rules in this ZOO are only right even those rules are not helping players - those rules helps only you to convince us that cage (system) is good.

You are manipulating informations about balance, you manipulating system to give a match result good for you, you hidding most important information that could help us understand proces (MMR, ELO, honor progress, report system - everything is hidden) but when we are trying to decrypt anything... you blaiming us about braking the rules and you punishing us.

You have choose only one point from my 5 - becouse it was easiest to give the answer but you have "forgot" about the rest of the points. However those points are connected and as a whole - they are creating whole my defend... but you do not care.

Our job as moderators is to make the Boards as inviting as possible, and it won't feel very inviting if someone sees a thread where they are being accused of being a bot.

And before you say "I'm not accusing the players, I'm accusing the system." everyone here knows that that is just your excuse for trying to work around our rules. All we are asking is that you be more considerate of others, and just cross out the names.

I do not care about players that I played with/against before if I did do not invite them to my friendlist. I forgot about all of them and If the system is broken I will be not able to change anything (me and nobody else) if those players are bad but if the system is broken as I suspect - my thread will be able to change something as I believe. Becouse of that I do not have the reason to judge players or shame them so it can be said that it is your wrong interpretation about my intention - which is mean that is shaming from you site... because it has nothing to do with the my intention, thread content and therad title.

So - you are only the one who shameing now...

Electro522Jan 30, 20196 votes

Firstly, I would like to make it clear that we moderators are not Rioters.....we are simply Boards users such as yourself with a few extra tricks up our sleeve. Also, we are not creating some cage to keep you in. All we are trying to do is make a place where everyone can have a decent discussion without the fear of being ridiculed or harassed in some way, shape, or form. Keeping player's names private is simply a part of the job.

My response was a blanket statement toward all 5 of your points, so, I apologize for not being as clear as you wanted me to be. Since you want me to address all of the points, I'll oblige.

Players from my pictures are from different server so 99% of you will be not able to meet them in game and penalityze them... moreover - nameing them and shameing them?... who may want to do it? even - for waht if it is about system issue?

Like I said, everyone one of those players has the possibility to use the Boards, and thus, we have to make the Boards as inviting as possible for said players. Also, you'd be surprised at how much one small comment towards a build or KDA could affect people.

Servers from NA, SA and EU do not werifying players so we even can not be sure if we are plying with real people and not bots.

It doesn't matter if we have the chance to be playing with bots or not, there is a still an extremely high chance that there is a real person behind that champion.

Because no 2 - even if "theoretical" specific players maight be "guilty" of some issue, in case of no-werification server - players can simply change their names to evade any type of obstacles like naming and shaming.

That they can. But that doesn't give you the excuse to show their names.

Im shameing system - not players so even those players exist as a people why somebody should even try to name and shame them?

Again, this doesn't give you the excuse to show their names. And, again one small comment could have a large impact.

Words like "nameing" and "shameing" from the board rules are related to situation when somebody will try to penalityze some "specific" players. If the thread is not about those specific players and if there is no any sign about untolerance (in the meaning of "nameing" and "shameing") about them and if the subject ot the thread is about different issue - board rule is not met.

Even if your intentions are not to insult the players in your games (i.e. you had a good game, and want to show off how well you did), hiding your teammates' names is a simply courtesy to avoid any and all "name and shame" situations. Because, again one small comment can make a big difference.

And for your final point......if you want to use games as evidence towards your claim that "the system" is broken in one way or another, that is fine. It might make for some meaningful discussion, which is what the mod team is all about. All we ask is that you respect other player's privacy, whether you suspect they are a bot or not, by giving them a little courtesy by blocking out their names so we can avoid any and all possible situations where naming and shaming can occur.

Sorry for sounding like a broken record player, but every answer I can give just goes back to my main point:

Just block out the names.

NeosphorosJan 31, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Firstly, I would like to make it clear that we moderators are not Rioters.....we are simply Boards users such as yourself with a few extra tricks up our sleeve. Also, we are not creating some cage to keep you in. All we are trying to do is make a place where everyone can have a decent discussion without the fear of being ridiculed or harassed in some way, shape, or form. Keeping player's names private is simply a part of the job.

My response was a blanket statement toward all 5 of your points, so, I apologize for not being as clear as you wanted me to be. Since you want me to address all of the points, I'll oblige.

Like I said, everyone one of those players has the possibility to use the Boards, and thus, we have to make the Boards as inviting as possible for said players. Also, you'd be surprised at how much one small comment towards a build or KDA could affect people.

It doesn't matter if we have the chance to be playing with bots or not, there is a still an extremely high chance that there is a real person behind that champion.

That they can. But that doesn't give you the excuse to show their names.

Again, this doesn't give you the excuse to show their names. And, again one small comment could have a large impact.

Even if your intentions are not to insult the players in your games (i.e. you had a good game, and want to show off how well you did), hiding your teammates' names is a simply courtesy to avoid any and all "name and shame" situations. Because, again one small comment can make a big difference.

And for your final point......if you want to use games as evidence towards your claim that "the system" is broken in one way or another, that is fine. It might make for some meaningful discussion, which is what the mod team is all about. All we ask is that you respect other player's privacy, whether you suspect they are a bot or not, by giving them a little courtesy by blocking out their names so we can avoid any and all possible situations where naming and shaming can occur.

Sorry for sounding like a broken record player, but every answer I can give just goes back to my main point:

Just block out the names.

First of all - only by giving a "avatars" names we can werify players experience (and because of that - if they were/or not - properly selected to teams) we can check if system working fine or not.

In order for shameing to take place, there must be several points:

Shaming is when somebodys feel shamed - nobody know if they are.
Shaming have to be directed to specific person - it was not.
There have to be specific intention - there was not.
It "specific" person should have to report intolerance in other way it is only you who suggesting that this specific person should have to feel shamed even (maybe) this person is not feeling shamed. (I do not see the reason why they should feel shamed)

IT IS ONLY YOU WHO GIVING NEGATIVE MEANING FOR THIS SPECIFIC ISSUE (in relation to players and not to system) AND SUGGESTING THAT THOSE PLAYERS SHOULD FEEL SHAMED.

This is like saying that the one who rides a skateboard at the time of his practice his acrobatic moves and when he falls over - he should feel shamed. No - he should not. He has the right to fall over - because he may not be affected. HOwever you - stigmatize him, you mark him negatively and you trying to say that he should feel embarrassed.

It is look like - you looking for someone you can punish...

Nobody was shamed, nobody have report it (becouse "shamed" did not report it) even it was not even shaming... my friend you creating problem that is not exist.

ShiwahJan 30, 20192 votes

[deleted]

NeosphorosJan 30, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I am experiencing a déjà-vu. This is the second time you're trying to stir shit about the removal of the same topic.

You are still in matrix. You took a wrong pill. There is no hope for you. ;)

This is about different topic.

The Anivia OTPJan 30, 20191 votes

Is the RIOT want to kill his game?

You meant either : Does riot want to kill this game ? Is riot willing to kill this game ?

No blaming ;) you're still learning

you don't say "THE RIOT", since there, we're not talking about a riot https://o.aolcdn.com/images/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/1028x675/format/jpg/quality/85/http%3A%2F%2Fo.aolcdn.com%2Fhss%2Fstorage%2Fmidas%2F9f37961f4519ce7b91333400522ee0a1%2F0%2FRTX3GL1Q.jpeg

but more like a studio whose name happen to be "Riot Games" https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/fr/thumb/7/7c/Riot_Games_Logo.png/233px-Riot_Games_Logo.png

it is commonly accepted that players says riot as a short version of it and RITO as the meme version.

but no one says "the riot" It's a name, take it as it is ;)

NeosphorosJan 30, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Anivia OTP,realm=EUW,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=xBdH918R,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-30T11:22:50.559+0000)

Is the RIOT want to kill his game?

You meant either : Does riot want to kill this game ? Is riot willing to kill this game ?

No blaming ;) you're still learning

you don't say "THE RIOT", since there, we're not talking about a riot https://o.aolcdn.com/images/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/1028x675/format/jpg/quality/85/http%3A%2F%2Fo.aolcdn.com%2Fhss%2Fstorage%2Fmidas%2F9f37961f4519ce7b91333400522ee0a1%2F0%2FRTX3GL1Q.jpeg

but more like a studio whose name happen to be "Riot Games" https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/fr/thumb/7/7c/Riot_Games_Logo.png/233px-Riot_Games_Logo.png

it is commonly accepted that players says riot as a short version of it and RITO as the meme version.

but no one says "the riot" It's a name, take it as it is ;)

RIOT is not a person of the meaning or board rules. Moreover this is only a question and not a statement - so it can not be assessed as a atack on real human.

The Anivia OTPJan 30, 20192 votes

{quoted}

RIOT is not a person of the meaning or board rules. Moreover this is only a question and not a statement - so it can not be assessed as a atack on real human.

riot is considered as a person, a company is even legally a Juridical person So , it's easier to say riot, because all individual actions conducted by anyone working at riot games, is considered as riot's action.

if tomorrow Riot Couch Commando (give that man a cookie for that epic name btw) decide to go wild and start telling people to fix the game themselves. it will be considered a RIOT GAMES decision.

see buddy , if i tell you you're wrong, it can be me, my "2 dudes randomly working together because it's fun to make videogames" company, My e-sport team, my family , whatever i'm representing , and anything you can represent is ALWAYS considered as a person.

NeosphorosFeb 2, 20191 votes

So?... My thread still have not been restored, even if I have proved that there was nothing like "shaming" in my thread directed to specific players.

Nobody was shamed, nobody have report it (becouse "shamed" did not report it) even it was not even shaming and it was only you as a moderators who was suggested that those players should have to be shamed... why? - nobody knows that.

Only sign of untolerance and harasment was your actions..

I'm hope that you will restore my thread soon.

ModiFeb 2, 20193 votes

{quoted}

So?... My thread still have not been restored, even if I have proved that there was nothing like "shaming" in my thread directed to specific players.

Nobody was shamed, nobody have report it (becouse "shamed" did not report it) even it was not even shaming and it was only you as a moderators who was suggested that those players should have to be shamed... why? - nobody knows that.

Only sign of untolerance and harasment was your actions..

I'm hope that you will restore my thread soon.

Your thread was remove for violating the rules. The policy is that if the image has names of other players, they are blocked out. Since the image was, or appears to have been, the primary focus of your thread (based on what I have read here) the whole thread was removed. it is as simple as that.

NeosphorosFeb 2, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Your thread was remove for violating the rules. The policy is that if the image has names of other players, they are blocked out. Since the image was, or appears to have been, the primary focus of your thread (based on what I have read here) the whole thread was removed. it is as simple as that.

Only rule about this is:

No personal attacks or witch-hunting, for any reason. Do not make posts accusing another player of causing a negative in-game experience, cheating, trolling, or any other malicious activity, even if you have hard evidence. If you see or hear about another person breaking the rules in-game, send a ticket to Player Support. If you see or hear about another person breaking the rules on the board, report the post in question or come to the Moderation Discord.

There was no "personal attacks" and there was no "witch-huntng" in my thread - so this rule does not fit to the content of my thread because topic itself was not about players behaviour but about problems with the system.

The specific rule applies to deliberately acting to the detriment of a particular player. That kind behavior did not happen in my thread.

ModiFeb 3, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Only rule about this is:

There was no "personal attacks" and there was no "witch-huntng" in my thread - so this rule does not fit to the content of my thread because topic itself was not about players behaviour but about problems with the system.

The specific rule applies to deliberately acting to the detriment of a particular player. That kind behavior did not happen in my thread.

While not to the letter, the way the rule has been interpreted and applied by the Moderators is to prevent even the slightest chance of that occurring. in doing so, it has become interpreted as "do not show names of other players, period."

NeosphorosFeb 3, 20191 votes

{quoted}

While not to the letter, the way the rule has been interpreted and applied by the Moderators is to prevent even the slightest chance of that occurring. in doing so, it has become interpreted as "do not show names of other players, period."

"Not showing the names" make only the sense only in case of some signe of untolerance, in other way this is a over interpretation. In other way every rule will be mean nothing and everything.

Fallows - intentional misleading can be readed as a harassment and untolerance.

ModiFeb 3, 20191 votes

{quoted}

"Not showing the names" make only the sense only in case of some signe of untolerance, in other way this is a over interpretation. In other way every rule will be mean nothing and everything.

Which is your opinion. Unfortunately it differs from the moderators' opinions. At this point, there is no further need to discuss, because the root of the disagreement is purely a difference in opinion.

NeosphorosFeb 3, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Which is your opinion. Unfortunately it differs from the moderators' opinions. At this point, there is no further need to discuss, because the root of the disagreement is purely a difference in opinion.

This is not my "opinion", this is logical conclusion based of content and form of specific rule.

It is even not possible to interpret this specific rule in other way than I have already explained.

If the rule saying about "personal attacks" and "witch hunting", it saying about.... "personal attacks" and "witch hunting" and nothing else. However... if it "should" mean also something else - additional information should be included into the content of the rule. In other way this is purposeful misleading which leading to players harassment.

ModiFeb 3, 20191 votes

Quoting The Djinn:

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=RPJVNA9t,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2019-01-29T16:14:09.315+0000)

In many cases there is disagreement as to what should or shouldn't be wrong, at which point we have to use the rules as we see best suited to the situation. Understandably this frustrates some people who have had comments removed they do not agree with the actions on. When we do feel an action taken was wrong, we tend to admit it fairly readily.

Emphasis mine. If you want to repost it, do so, but blanking out the names of others. It is as simple as that.

NeosphorosFeb 3, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Quoting The Djinn:

Emphasis mine. If you want to repost it, do so, but blanking out the names of others. It is as simple as that.

In the same way it is possible to say that just only by splitting players between different divisions (by your player skill definition - iron - lowest level player, and diamond - highest skill level player) - you doing exactly the same as it was possible to see on my pictures - that some players are bad and some are good... but players list (good ex - gold, bad - iron) is provided by you in game and it is not hidden. So what is the different between informations I have provide about bad players from my games to informations from your iron players tables?

In your point of view by just only sharing iron-skilled-player list maight be a reason of "personal attacks" and "head-hunting" - but those lists are provided in game.

Acording to this - I did nothing more than system doing by providing specific details about players - which player is good and whichone is bad.

By blocking possibility to providing other players nicknames in case of other issues than player behaviour related - you bloking us to werifying regularity of created matches which lead to suggestion that your real reason for that is that you manipulating a player score and whole team result by deliberateing - wrong players selection.

ModiFeb 4, 20192 votes

Like I said, your opinion differs from the moderators' implementation of the rules. This is now full circle. Your post violated the rules, as interpreted by the moderators. You were given the avenue of remedy, which would bring your post back within the rules. There is nothing more to be said.

Good luck in the rift (or treeline, or abyss).

NeosphorosFeb 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Like I said, your opinion differs from the moderators' implementation of the rules. This is now full circle. Your post violated the rules, as interpreted by the moderators. You were given the avenue of remedy, which would bring your post back within the rules. There is nothing more to be said.

Good luck in the rift (or treeline, or abyss).

are you some kind of mediator that you trying to find excuses for moderators behaviour? If you are not one of them - stay on the side and do not talk - because your answers may have nothing to do with true.

ModiFeb 5, 20192 votes

{quoted}

are you some kind of mediator that you trying to find excuses for moderators behaviour? If you are not one of them - stay on the side and do not talk - because your answers may have nothing to do with true.

No, I am neither a mediator, not am I finding "excuses". I am merely trying to explain the actions that have transpired based on my observations on these boards.

If you don't want my opinion, fine. I'll quote the pinned comment:

{quoted}

Happened to take a look at the thread removed in question.

You specifically had several pictures of lost matches where you edited the picture in order to highlight specific things you wanted readers to look at, but did not cross out any names.

Posting pictures of end game screens is fine, but we require that you cross out names of players, specifically to avoid naming and shaming.

Kai GuyFeb 6, 20191 votes

You gave it a solid and patient effort Modi. Good on you. That being said ima quote you to the universal rules as they may be relevant to you.

"At the same time, don’t be discouraged if they aren’t receptive. Some small percentage of players won’t want to listen to your advice, no matter how politely you try to lend a hand. In these situations, simply exit the conversation gracefully."

@neo.