as you can see i censored the first and last word of this players name and even wrote that into my thread. yet it was reported and deleted for "nameshame".
but i dare to say noone can guess a name that still has a total of 6 letters missing. so this should be fine?
ModThe Djinn6 votesHey there!
I've removed the thumbnail from your post. While I understand that you did attempt to censor part of the individual's name, the name was still sufficiently visible to make it easy to narrow down names to that of the player in question, and, more importantly, the entire thread served only to call out an individual. When you have screenshots of another player that are relevant to a discussion not solely focused on that individual, we request that you block out the names. When the entire discussion is focused on a specific individual, that discussion is not appropriate for the boards.
Sukishoo2 votesbut i dare to say noone can guess a name that still has a total of 6 letters missing. so this should be fine?
That's actually a pretty easy thing to guess, especially since I just went to your history and found the name right there.
When showing chats, select screens, whatever... blocking the WHOLE name is best.
UnboundHades5 votesby that logic they should have to censor everything that can be used to identify the person such as them being a lee sin since you can still just look at the op.gg and find the person
this is just another case of mods being irresponsible when it comes to deleting stuff and will pass it off as either what you are saying which lacks any form of logic once you think about it for half a second or say its an "honest mistake" which seems to be more common lately.
ModThe Djinn3 votes{quoted}by that logic they should have to censor everything that can be used to identify the person such as them being a lee sin since you can still just look at the op.gg and find the person
By a hard interpretation of the rules, yes, we would.
No personal attacks or witch-hunting, for any reason. Do not make posts accusing another player of causing a negative in-game experience, cheating, trolling, or any other malicious activity, even if you have hard evidence.
It doesn't specify "it's only bad if you specifically identify the player." We generally give some leeway with this one though, as we know people do get frustrated. Censoring a name is, however, something of a bare minimum (although I don't believe anyone has ever had a punishment for Name & Shame unless it's a persistent and recurring habit).
...say its an "honest mistake" which seems to be more common lately.
DrCyanide2 votesGot to say, posting a portion of an obviously negative name doesn't seem like it would break the rule.
It's not a personal attack, the person chose to name themselves that. It's not a witch hunt. Again, it's the person's name, they want to be identified as that. Accusation... again, it's their name.
This isn't like taking someone's chat or in game behavior, which can vary or be faked, out of context. It's their name. It's sometimes the only thing you'll see when interacting with them. Calling out a portion of their name, instead of the whole name, as an example of what shouldn't be allowed is a completely different beast than what the rules are designed to stop.
ModThe Djinn2 votes{quoted}Calling out a portion of their name, instead of the whole name, as an example of what shouldn't be allowed is a completely different beast than what the rules are designed to stop.
As one of the people who helped write the updated rules, I can with some confidence tell you that this rule was intended to stop all instances of shaming other players, including for inappropriate names. Sending a ticket to Player Support is the best way to handle scenarios like this.
DrCyanide3 votesThat assumes you can have shame in your own chosen name. Are you ashamed to be called a Djinn?
I've encountered some people who have made assumptions about me for "Cyanide", not because of the word itself, but by associating the poison with toxicity. Their conclusion is that only a toxic player would pick such a name. It becomes an opportunity to share why I picked this name - which actually has to do with mishearing lyrics to a song while on a date with my wife. Even if you assume that someone just wanted to get a kick out of having some edgy name (as the name in question likely was) then they still wouldn't be shamed by it being shown off and making the rounds, as it causing a stir is what they wanted when they picked it.
In short, there's no reason to think that calling attention to a players name could ever be considered shaming.
ModThe Djinn4 votes{quoted}In short, there's no reason to think that calling attention to a players name could ever be considered shaming.
There is a chance that rule needs to be renamed, as I do see how the "shaming" phrasing might be unclear. The intent is that highlighting a player in a negative light is not okay, be it for their name, their gameplay, their champion pool, their in-game chat, and so on.
rujitra1 votesMay I suggest "witch hunting" or simply calling it harassment?
DrCyanide1 votes"Witch Hunt" has been over used in recent years, and depending on how events unfold it might end up being the next "literally". Harassment again would imply that a one off commenting on someone's name is harassing them.
UnboundHades1 votesthe case with this is no one is going to know who the lee is based on a random guess and start witch hunting them unless they search it on his op.gg and find the missing characters which can still be done without any parts of the name so what really makes this different from literally any other post talking about someone with a toxic name, toxic in general, or whatever else drives people to make these posts.
on the case with mods the problem ive been seeing starting with that colonel j post (that only got locked after you guys got called out for leaving it up in the first place) is that its a lot of censorship that is based on the mods own ideas and not the communities which is something that i said there also. there is no honest mistakes its just carelessness that shouldnt even be happening with volunteers. i could see this stuff happening more with people that are getting paid for it since they dont have a connection to the community or any drive but when someone that is volunteering is consistently abusing their power than there's a problem
ModThe Djinn2 votes{quoted}...so what really makes this different from literally any other post talking about someone with a toxic name, toxic in general, or whatever else drives people to make these posts.
Mainly that it links to a specific individual. This thread is making me take a second look at our enforcement of this policy though -- I'll bring it up with the team, as there does seem to be an inconsistency between name mentions vs. "this Jhin in my last game." I'm not sure if we would want to favor allowing name & shame or removing all identifying name & shame though -- and I expect, given that this rule originated with Riot, they would favor the latter interpretation.
...is that its a lot of censorship that is based on the mods own ideas and not the communities...
We try to find a balance between what the community wants, what Riot wants (which takes priority), and what we and our Riot contacts feel is a good direction for fostering the sort of community Riot would like the boards to be. I definitely won't claim we're perfect or that there aren't places we could improve with regards to rules and communication, but at some point we also have to admit that if moderation exists it will never be perfectly consistent. It's not possible to get a team the size of ours 100% on the same page, and the sheer number of posts on the boards and the differing circumstances on many of them mean that it's often impossible to get a large enough amount of moderator input on any one comment to ensure perfect consistency.
I'm always open to suggestions and we do consider pretty much all the reasonable ones, but removing moderator discretion is one that frankly isn't really a functional solution, as there isn't an alternative short of "hard rules for everything," which isn't plausible.
UnboundHades1 voteswhile i know that you arent the one who makes actual changes to the boards itself(wuks) is it at all possible to set up something where if the mod isnt 100% sure about their judgement on something is correct then a vote will appear on the comment/post allowing the community to judge if it should stay or not since this would solve things such the one incident that happened last month with the rhaast quote being deleted due to the mod not recognizing it.
this is just something that i thought of since it would allow for more community input which seems to be sorely lacking in its current state
another thing that can be done is just make threads on some topics that you guys arent sure on and get our input through that
ModThe Djinn2 votes{quoted}is it at all possible to set up something where if the mod isnt 100% sure about their judgement on something is correct then a vote will appear on the comment/post allowing the community to judge if it should stay or not since this would solve things such the one incident that happened last month with the rhaast quote being deleted due to the mod not recognizing it.
It is not, sadly. That requires too deep a hook into the backend system. The Rhaast situation was a frustrating one, definitely (for everyone), but that sort of situation is honestly pretty rare -- that's only about the second time I've seen a champion quote cause an issue since the Volunteer Program started.
The other problem with that is that there are some things that the community is more accepting of than our understanding of Riot's goals indicates we should be. This is always frustrating, especially when we give leeway on things that we are authorized to punish and the community pushback is that we're too harsh. I think to some extent it would be helpful if we could get on the page where the community realizes that we do try to give them leeway and we don't like to ban people -- there's just reasonable limits to how much we can give, how often, and where.
this is just something that i thought of since it would allow for more community input which seems to be sorely lacking in its current state
We do take community input, we do take applications (we just took on a bunch of new mods from all over the community), and we talk to the Specialists and anyone who has feedback here or on Discord. It's ultimately a bit difficult to reach out more when the community that is most concerned about moderation tends to view us with such distrust though -- I've seen this in the past with attempts to do that, where when we don't necessarily act in the direction of community feedback (even though we considered it strongly) ends up with us getting more frustration. It's a dilemma I'm interested in finding new ways to approach though, because we HAVE many channels and many of us ARE community members, but clearly some portion of the community isn't happy with things as they currently are.
another thing that can be done is just make threads on some topics that you guys arent sure on and get our input through that
We've tried that a bit in the past (with things like the GD rules, if I recall correctly). They tend to turn into attacks on the moderation team, sadly, and that's not really productive.
UnboundHades1 votesIf only riot cared enough about their own forums then some decent changes could actually come and make everything easier for everyone. Well atleast moderation here is better than it is on reddit. Also djinn thank you for consistently being one of the most clear and consistent mods compared to everyone else it shows that you actually care about the community.
(On phone so autocorrect and formatting are stopping me from making this longer)
ModThe Djinn2 votes{quoted}If only riot cared enough about their own forums then some decent changes could actually come and make everything easier for everyone.
Some Rioters definitely care. Some probably don't. The main issue is that development requires developers, and developers are a limited resource, so lesser priorities get shifted down even when people do care (and I know some do). There are a lot of changes I'd love, but we try to do the best with what we have for the time being.
Also djinn thank you for consistently being one of the most clear and consistent mods compared to everyone else it shows that you actually care about the community.
Thank you very much! I try, and I'm painfully aware that I can't live up to everyone's expectations. In some cases this is expected and relatively easy to deal with, but in other cases it's just as frustrating for me as it is for you guys. Always happy to discuss ways to improve. :)
Silent Gravity1 votesThere are only two letters missing.
But, what were you expecting the boards to do about it? If you want action taken, report them https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/requests/new .
If you want to discuss the behavior, you can do that without using that specific name.
mlm olo mlm1 votes[{quoted}](name=Silent Gravity,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=rL5od0L6,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-06T03:18:25.681+0000)
There are only two letters missing.
But, what were you expecting the boards to do about it? If you want action taken, report them https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/requests/new .
If you want to discuss the behavior, you can do that without using that specific name.
Then you wait months in a support queue. Just to get a response from a Rioter, who clearly has not read or understood your ticket, saying they support the volunteer moderators actions.
Reaper Soraka1 votesGoing to delete the first portion since mods removed pic. Now it's unguessable!
I don't know if you truly understand how much of this game is logged and free for anyone to view. imo it is almost an invasion of privacy. https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/summoner/euw/Jennifer420 http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=Jennifer420 Wait until you join a game (loading screen or in-game) and check your name on porofessor.gg.
Porofessor is actually really neat. I learned about it like a month ago. :P
