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Why people feel they are treated unfairly by the Mod team - A friendly discussion with the Mods

SirTauntsALot··51 votes·17,835 views

Dear respectful summoners and Mod team,

I have had my up's and downs with the Mod team for posts I personally thought were not violating any rules but got removed. After some discussion with some of the Mods I was on the verge of accepting that indeed my posts could be offensive and that I just cannot see it. That is fine. Not fair, but I can take it.

Now I would like to discuss why many people on the boards are not happy with the Mods lately. Why do people feel that way and how can Mods improve their relationship with the people to avoid such conflicts.

Double standards - Treat both the Mods and the Players with the same way :

Definition of Double Standards: ~~A rule or principle which is unfairly applied in different ways to different people or groups ~~

I understand that Mods are people with feelings. However, players are people with pride as well. I have recently encountered what is called "double standards" and I really am interested in understanding how this works. So, I commented on a thread that I was not happy with the Golden Rule Law (which a Moderator brought up in a discussion which I was participating). I thereafter, in a separate thread, had a healthy and very nice conversation with another Mod which was very similar in nature. It is important to note that the discussion with the second Mod was made many hours after I had already posted that I am not happy with the Golden Rule.

So, very rightly so, a Mod would simply reply to me and say "Hey mate, since you now have discussed this topic with another Mod I think we should not repeat this discussion over here again". That is very reasonable to do and I would not have any issue with it. It would be a genuine gesture. However, instead, I got a similar reply from a Mod who was also so polite to include a winky champion icon at the end. Furthermore, as posts have timestamps, it was only reasonable that the Mod would check that my post was made BEFORE I had the discussion with Mod B. Well no. The mod thought it would be better to reply to me with something in the lines of:

Hey there,

I know you are not happy with the Universal Rules, however you already discussed this with Mod B on this thread. I believe your post now is not necessary and should regarded as spam. If you feel the need to discuss this further I am happy to discuss it with you. [poppy-wink]

Please note that his/ her response was not exactly like above but might be a little more sarcastic. However, since the post was deleted I cannot quote him/her directly.

Fair enough. I wanted to respond to him since I felt that my intelligence was being challenged. Did he / she not see the timestamp? Does he / she think I would continue the discussion further? Nop. I had gotten my response and had no intentions on commenting any further. So I thought it would only be fair if I pointed out his / her mistake in the most polite way I could. So I tried my best to do so by using mostly his own response. So I responded something in the lines of.

Hey there,

I know I am not happy with the Universal Rules, however you can see the timestamps of all of my posts. I feel that there is no need to belittle me (which I felt I was being belittled) by posting such a response but instead I believe you can check the timestamps. If you feel the need to discuss this further I am happy to discuss it with you. [slayer-jinx-catface].

To my surprise this morning, I saw that I got a notification that my response was deleted. The reason? "it was offensive".

Why was my response offensive? Did I use offensive words? No. Did I use an offensive photo? No. Did I belittle or offend any person or group? No. Did I respond with criticism? Yes. Was my criticism constructive and polite? Yes.

It would be very interesting to get a response from the Mods on this.

So what can Mods do in order to avoid double standards?

  • Well firstly if a Player "A"replies to Mod's "B" post in the same friendly tone, they should not remove it and say its offensive. In the same way your own post may be deemed offensive. This is a double standard so **don't **do it.

  • If you think something is a spam, check the post. When was the post made? Is it relevant to the topic? If you mention the term Universal Law and someone comments on that Universal Law this is more likely to be on topic and not spam. If you feel that the question has been answered elsewhere maybe a polite comment such as "Hey since topic-A is discussed here ... let's not have the same conversation topic-B" and linking the thread as a response might be a better idea than just deleting the comment.

I would sincerely like a response from the Mod team. A sincere one. Thank you for your time.

97 Comments

Cheini71 votes

guys, have you thought about that.. every mod has their own opinion? sure, they aren't right like always - other times, well, can you trust an average league player to tell you what is a nice and fair behavior? :d

there are times when their judgement is wrong, even ridiculous - for the worst cause, when the mod is straight lazy to read the context or the whole comment (been there on the EU boards.. x.x); up to his own personality (still a league player, right? :d) or.. just his personal opinion is wrong - you know, humans, adults, all the bad stuff you can imagine.

other times, well.. they are just right. :)

  the thing which imo they do wrong, is that.. in the cases their opinions differ, they do not discuss that as a team, but one mod's opinion matters too much - unless a thread is risen to hot for long enough and someone gets a -200...

and this isn't the first time i note it.

Salty Mc Feed7 votes

If the rules can be bend just by having a different opinion, that means the rules are shitty and too vague.

Salty Mc Feed71 votes

I gave up discussing with the mods 2 years ago or so. I simply don't care anymore. Don't waste your time, because they don't care about you or your arguments either.

Arammus68 votes

i mean if a mod goes running around saying "if i perceive your comment as a rulebreak, i will ban it and warn you even if it wasnt" and then for 3 days straight says nothing besides "eh whatever i say you use it against me lol" then idk. that is not the behavior a mod should have.

and if the mod team goes "we have an eye on him" i feel trolled. great you have an eye on him. so do i. and you know what that does? NOTHING. remove the idiot from your mod team to prevent turning into lol reddit mods.

Arakadia5 votes

The whole “we have an eye on him” is literally because they don’t want to remove him unless it gets worse. The point isn’t to do something other than pay closer attention, for now at least.

rujitra5 votes

They refuse to remove a moderator who treated a boards users horribly unprofessionally because “he has a propensity to meme”. Well, sorry, but when acting in an official capacity memeing is not acceptable nor should it be an excuse.

There have been quite a few examples of mod misbehavior that are mishandled at least if they want to keep community trust.

ModThe Djinn6 votes

{quoted}They refuse to remove a moderator who treated a boards users horribly unprofessionally because “he has a propensity to meme”. Well, sorry, but when acting in an official capacity memeing is not acceptable nor should it be an excuse.

Every concern about a moderator is reviewed, and we do take them seriously. Simply because someone has not actively been removed does not mean the issues have not been raised, concerns have not been discussed, internal steps have not been taken, or the moderator has not been told imminent removal is possible if things do not change. Our internal processes may not always align to how swiftly some vocal community members may wish us to take action, but the lack of visible action does not mean things have not been handled as we feel appropriate at the time.

rujitra3 votes

I did not say you didn’t claim to have handled it (which we can’t verify in any way). It’s my opinion and obviously some others in the community that unprofessional conduct towards board members including “memeing” and being a jerk should not at all be tolerated from moderators, not even once.

ModThe Djinn4 votes

{quoted}It’s my opinion and obviously some others in the community that unprofessional conduct towards board members including “memeing” and being a jerk should not at all be tolerated from moderators, not even once.

Fair enough. Just note that the "not even once" policy would mean the removal of approximately 95% of all moderators, likely myself included. It's never going to be a policy to kick someone for one or two errors unless they're egregious.

rujitra2 votes

Obviously there will always be differing opinions on what qualifies as egregious as well, which is understandable. I mostly wanted to point out that I do understand that you handle issues - even if it’s not the way some of us would like to see them handled or if we disagree with the severity of the actions.

I don’t think you’re doing a horrible job, nor do I think you’re intentionally doing anything to piss anyone off, even if it sounds like I think that way sometimes.

ModThe Djinn6 votes

{quoted}I don’t think you’re doing a horrible job, nor do I think you’re intentionally doing anything to piss anyone off, even if it sounds like I think that way sometimes.

My biggest concern with what it sounds like is that you have a tendency to make statements like the statement I responded to without acknowledging the difference on opinions or tendency to do most moderator warnings behind-the-scenes, and, in doing so, add ammunition to the anti-mod rhetoric that's especially high right now. If you disagree with us that's fine -- we expect people will -- but when you word it that way it comes across as much more of an attack than perhaps you mean, and others pick that up and magnify it.

rujitra6 votes

If others pick it up and magnify it, it should signify that maybe the contingent of users sharing similar opinions as mine is larger than you thought, and that you may wish to consider the views we have. If 95% of moderators have acted unprofessionally in their official capacity (I.e when responding to a complaint or taking a moderator action), then that’s not an excuse to not act strongly against unprofessional behavior. Again, this is my opinion - but if you are seeing anti mod rhetoric and simply discounting it because you think its “rhetoric” and not valid, that’s fine... but that in and of itself will simply amplify the amount of rhetoric.

The largest drive of antimod rhetoric will always be when the community feels they are not being listened to or cared for by the moderators. If it looks like an “old boys club” where excuses are continually made for moderators remaining on the team after what should have never been considered acceptable behavior, then that will increase rhetoric.

I take great offense to the fact you are attempting to change the way I speak my mind because you’re afraid I am increasing the rhetoric. At some point I hope you’ll see that maybe it’s not me - maybe there are actual issues with your internal processes and procedures for grievances that have caused people like myself to move from great respect for the moderators to feeling as if you are all just “going through the motions” for the “hat collecting”.

You’re free to disagree and I hope you will - but please know that I have and will continue to voice my opinions as they have been formed over years of using the boards. Instead of telling me I’m wrong and that it’s being magnified, maybe take a look at why myself and others have begun to feel this way. If you’re seeing an increase in antimod sentiment, instead of blaming my tone, figure out why people are feeling this way.

Obviously you do not have to change the program - but instead of complaining that we feel bad, do something to fix the reasons we feel bad. It may be hard - nobody wants to fire people especially if they’re friends - but if you want people to stop complaining about moderator behavior, then the community will want to see swift, decisive action when a moderator steps way out of line in an official capacity.

ModThe Djinn5 votes

{quoted}I take great offense to the fact you are attempting to change the way I speak my mind because you’re afraid I am increasing the rhetoric.

I'm not, actually. You're welcome to keep posting as you see fit. I was simply voicing my opinion in response to your post that you don't think we're intentionally doing anything and agreeing that yes, it does come across perhaps more negatively than you may intend. Perhaps it is intentional. Either way, I was voicing a personal frustration, not trying to change your behavior.

rujitra1 votes

Apologies for misinterpreting.

Trump KAG 20202 votes

[sg-ezreal]

forist60 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=HtAihato,comment-id=0008000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-10T19:32:45.641+0000)

My biggest concern with what it sounds like is that you have a tendency to make statements like the statement I responded to without acknowledging the difference on opinions or tendency to do most moderator warnings behind-the-scenes, and, in doing so, add ammunition to the anti-mod rhetoric that's especially high right now. If you disagree with us that's fine -- we expect people will -- but when you word it that way it comes across as much more of an attack than perhaps you mean, and others pick that up and magnify it.

Idk if there's an anti-mod rhetoric atm, but I do believe there is an anti-censorship one. The easiest way to alleviate this would be to actually ask for clarification on posts that are reported instead of just assuming the worst from every comment made.

edit: jeesus christ vote bot -.-

Wimbledofy19 votes

48 upvotes in 20 minutes? Is this normal?

SirTauntsALot5 votes

Def not Normal. I was surprised myself.

General Esdeath 8 votes

{quoted}

48 upvotes in 20 minutes? Is this normal?

Considering it's a hot topic with fair points, yes, it is.

TrulyBland13 votes

It's hot topic because it got such a ridiculously unlikely amount of upvotes, though.

Looking at one other thread on this subforum, you will see something with twenty times the amount of views this thread has, while only having an up/downvote participation half of this thread. Not even talking about the subject matter or how much it was upvoted vs downvoted here. Already just looking at the votes per view there's something wrong here. Knowing that there has been a vote bot active in recent days that seems to be the much more likely explanation to be completely honest.

Edit: As numbers change over time (and already have changed) let me include the current numbers: 68 upvotes, 7 downvotes, 626 views. That's more than 10% views resulting in a vote.

SirTauntsALot8 votes

There is something wrong for sure. I posted it and after a few seconds only it had like 50 up-votes

Julevi3 votes

{quoted}

There is something wrong for sure. I posted it and after a few seconds only it had like 50 up-votes

Yeah, there was a bit of vote-manipulation in the beginning which is a shame as the thread is actually interesting and probably would get a lot of upvotes by itself.

TrulyBland7 votes

Kudos for acknowledging that, btw.

General Esdeath 2 votes

{quoted}

It's hot topic because it got such a ridiculously unlikely amount of upvotes, though.

Looking at one other thread on this subforum, you will see something with twenty times the amount of views this thread has, while only having an up/downvote participation half of this thread. Not even talking about the subject matter or how much it was upvoted vs downvoted here. Already just looking at the votes per view there's something wrong here. Knowing that there has been a vote bot active in recent days that seems to be the much more likely explanation to be completely honest.

Edit: As numbers change over time (and already have changed) let me include the current numbers: 68 upvotes, 7 downvotes, 626 views. That's more than 10% views resulting in a vote.

also depends on the time of day. I browse later at night and don't really up or down vote but just comment. During the day boards is more comment-feeling

TrulyBland2 votes

I'm not denying there's some variance in there… but you can even see the absurd vote per view ratio fall off incredibly quickly.

Since I last checked the number of votes has perhaps increased by one or two, while there have been 200 more views. I'm fairly certain my initial view of the thread also already had 60-something upvotes and 6 downvotes, at less than 400 views and in less than 20 minutes.

So here are the numbers: Over 66 votes in less than 20 minutes, with a vote per view ratio of over 16.5% And after that: Less than 8 votes in about 1.5 hours, with a vote per view ratio of less than 2.2%

I understand that threads can lose momentum rather quickly… but you have to at least admit that this is anomalous.

DuskDaUmbreon7 votes

It's 100% abnormal. This many upvotes at what was around midnight-2 AM? On a fucking Monday night?

Blatant and obvious votebotting. Even if it's not willingly done by OP, it's beyond obvious that it happened, especially when you look at the pattern that's been happening.

FlLL COSBY4 votes

of course its not. The upvote system is also unfairly tampered with by the mods. They upvote each other and downvote anything that doesn't align with their subjective perception in an attempt and create perceived false consensus.

rujitra3 votes

You have no proof of this because it’s impossible - not even moderators can see who is voting on threads.

FlLL COSBY2 votes

Yea, of course you'd say that.

SirTauntsALot1 votes

{quoted}

You have no proof of this because it’s impossible - not even moderators can see who is voting on threads.

I love how people were fast to comment about this thread getting 40 upvotes in a few seconds but do not mention that it got downvoted-bombed faster than the speed of light.

ModThe Djinn16 votes

{quoted}It is important to note that the discussion with the second Mod was made many hours after I had already posted that I am not happy with the Golden Rule.

Do you remember the thread or mod in question? I would like to track down the moderator post you're referring to. The name of the thread (if the thread was deleted), OP of the thread, or mod name will be sufficient.

SirTauntsALot3 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=HtAihato,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2019-12-10T14:46:38.218+0000)

Do you remember the thread or mod in question? I would like to track down the moderator post you're referring to. The name of the thread (if the thread was deleted), OP of the thread, or mod name will be sufficient.

Thank you for your response. Of course I remember the thread. The one where we had the conversation was : Where do we draw the line. I can lookup a link if you want. I had a very nice conversation with the herald who his name starts with U (cannot recall it as I am from mobile atm).

The second post which was deleted was in the rhread " Mods not only have failed... ". ( Again i cannot provide a link but can do so later if need yo. ) I believe you can also check deleted posts and find it. No ?

Edit: the threads are both up and running.

ModThe Djinn4 votes

{quoted}The one where we had the conversation was : Where do we draw the line.

I remember that one. We had a conversation ourselves.

The second post which was deleted was in the rhread " Mods not only have failed... ". ( Again i cannot provide a link but can do so later if need yo. ) I believe you can also check deleted posts and find it. No ?

I did find it, yes. I'll have to check with another Herald on this one so I can be sure that we handle it properly and give you good information.

SirTauntsALot2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=HtAihato,comment-id=000d00000000,timestamp=2019-12-10T15:02:36.241+0000)

I remember that one. We had a conversation ourselves.

Yes this is the one we had the conversation: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/R8Q1cu76-where-do-we-line-a-sincere-discussion

I did find it, yes. I'll have to check with another Herald on this one so I can be sure that we handle it properly and give you good information.

Thank you.

ModThe Djinn9 votes

{quoted}Thank you.

So, here's the update.

  1. The original post of yours removed in that thread was for thread-jacking. This action was appropriate, as you had your own thread on that very topic.
  2. The moderator in question should not have responded to your post in that manner. That comment was removed by the Herald who removed your comment, and he had a talk with the moderator about that subject.
  3. Your response to the moderator's comment was a sarcastic aside which was equally if not more unhelpful than the moderator's comment, and so it was also removed.

In short, don't sidetrack other people's threads and don't have arguments in other people's threads about the things you're sidetracking them on. This applies to both normal posters and moderators, and, in this instance, both were warned about their behavior alerted to the inappropriate nature of the conversation (which is more accurate to the messages both parties received).

SirTauntsALot3 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=HtAihato,comment-id=000d0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-10T16:31:37.384+0000)

So, here's the update.

  1. The original post of yours removed in that thread was for thread-jacking. This action was appropriate, as you had your own thread on that very topic.
  2. The moderator in question should not have responded to your post in that manner. That comment was removed by the Herald who removed your comment, and he had a talk with the moderator about that subject.
  3. Your response to the moderator's comment was a sarcastic aside which was equally if not more unhelpful than the moderator's comment, and so it was also removed.

In short, don't sidetrack other people's threads and don't have arguments in other people's threads about the things you're sidetracking them on. This applies to both normal posters and moderators, and, in this instance, both were warned about their behavior.

Fair enough. Thank you for the information.

Just a final question. When is one considered thread-jacking?

ModThe Djinn7 votes

{quoted}Just a final question. When is one considered thread-jacking?

When you're making posts that are side-tracking the OP's topic in ways that aren't relevant to the topic. The OP's concern in that thread was a specific moderator action, and you started a conversation on evaluating the board Golden Rule and asking a series of questions not relevant to the OP's issue or concern. This is especially true when you already have your own thread discussing that sort of issue.

SirTauntsALot3 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=HtAihato,comment-id=000d000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-12-10T17:02:58.162+0000)

When you're making posts that are side-tracking the OP's topic in ways that aren't relevant to the topic. The OP's concern in that thread was a specific moderator action, and you started a conversation on evaluating the board Golden Rule and asking a series of questions not relevant to the OP's issue or concern. This is especially true when you already have your own thread discussing that sort of issue.

I see. Thank you. I would suggest this gets written down if it is not yet. People might not know of this rule. Maybe it should be followed through all posts since I can definitely swoop a couple where this rule is not applied.

ModUlanopo4 votes

{quoted}

I see. Thank you. I would suggest this gets written down if it is not yet. People might not know of this rule. Maybe it should be followed through all posts since I can definitely swoop a couple where this rule is not applied.

Universal Guidelines

No spamming or trolling. Some common examples of these behaviors are listed below.

Posting content not related to the discussion.

This is always going to be an area where discretion and judgment are required. As I mentioned, we review these more closely in specific sub-boards.

SirTauntsALot3 votes

{quoted}

Universal Guidelines

Well I would argue that the universal rules were brought up in the discussion. But lets say fine. I can still swoop a dozen examples where you are not applying this rule. That's fine. I can't bother anymore. Lets agree that my post was rightfully deleted. I wish all best of luck.

Edit: i still believe that in these situations it's better to link a post that "off- topic" thread is relevant rather than deleting it because more players may come with the same off-topic question. Thats just my opinion though.

BitterFeetFungus2 votes

[deleted]

General Esdeath 6 votes

{quoted}

-removed by moderator-

What does having a disability have to do with anything?

BitterFeetFungus2 votes

i'm not talking about physical disabilities btw

General Esdeath 4 votes

{quoted}

i'm not talking about physical disabilities btw

I ask the question again

SirTauntsALot4 votes

Hey mate. That's not cool. I would advise you delete your post.

BitterFeetFungus2 votes

i didn't name anyone

SirTauntsALot2 votes

Cheers for deleting your post. It is still offensive mate as I know you have realized that.

Arakadia2 votes

Are you saying we shouldn't let disabled people mod? You don't even know this person, how can you judge them for being disabled?

SirTauntsALot1 votes

Hey mate. The post was removed. I think we can end the discussion about that here and stay on topic.

Arakadia1 votes

It was removed after I commented. You cant reply to deleted comments.

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