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Where do we line - a sincere discussion

SirTauntsALot·12/6/2019, 2:49:57 PM·4 votes·4,055 views

~~Disclaimer ~~:

_This post is meant for discussion on a very interesting topic. This post is not meant to offend any of the Moderators or Specialists. This post is not meant to deprive or belittle any member of this forum or any person, thing or entity in general. If you feel disrespected or offended with this post please contact me. _

Edit: The title should have been "Where do we draw the line - a sincere discussion"

Lately we have noticed an increase amount of complaints that people are having their posts removed. Many people are confused (including myself) as to why some of their post are deemed offensive.

The explanation is simple. We have marched in the era of PC culture where everything you say need to have a disclaimer. People get offended left and right far to easily. I get that league is trying to remove negativity, but some negativity is healthy for both the game and the boards. When I say negativity, I don't mean insulting. Criticism should be allowed on the boards. People should not be afraid to criticize others.

The current state of the boards I see Mods or other entities with power removing posts they deem offensive. That is fine, as long there is a clear guideline as what is offensive and what is not. So... Where do we draw the line?

Let us evaluate the universal rules of the board:

#1

When you choose to participate in a discussion with the rest of the playerbase, ~~always try to be respectful and receptive ~~ to another player's point of view. Also, be mindful of how you present your point of view. If a player feels strongly on a subject, don't get caught up trying to have the last word. Just state your side and exit the conversation gracefully rather than give them the opportunity to pick a fight.

When is my post considered disrespectful ? How far can I go? Is calling someones opinion wrong disrespectful ? Very vague rule. Based on this anything can be deemed disrespectful and deleted.

#2

Do not post content intended to insult, belittle, disrespect, or intentionally offend other community members as individuals or as groups . Criticism is an important and useful method of feedback, but must be respectful and constructive in nature. Non-constructive forms of criticism (such as questioning another poster's intelligence or requesting the firing or removal of an individual) are violations of this rule.

Again very vague. How do I know I am not offending anyone with this post? Should I put disclaimers? Where do you draw the line?

I believe PC culture though takes everything to be "offensive" and I believe this is ruining the opportunity to have intense but healthy discussions. Where do we draw the line to what's offensive and what's not?

19 Comments

ModUlanopo12/6/2019, 4:44:29 PM11 votes

The explanation is simple. We have marched in the era of PC culture where everything you say need to have a disclaimer.

I disagree with this as a premise. I think we're in an era where people use the license of internet anonymity to treat people in a way they never would in person. They forget there's an actual human being behind the other screen and do away with basic respect.

Here's the thing, cultures and communities work because the participants decide on a set of mutually agreeable rules. Too strict and the group slides towards authoritarianism. Too loose and you end up with anarchy.

When we moderate, we do so with the belief the boards can - and should - be better than Facebook or YouTube comment sections, much less places like 4chan. If that's the sort of community that appeals to you, perhaps you should consider frequenting them more often.

When is my post considered disrespectful ? How far can I go? Is calling someones opinion wrong disrespectful ? Very vague rule. Based on this anything can be deemed disrespectful and deleted.

It isn't possible to give precise rules for this, but a great starting point is to imagine you're speaking to someone you respect and whose opinion you value. If you're posting in way that isn't consistent with that, you should be asking yourself why. I say this because I see a lot of people posting without starting from that baseline respect. When I get tart with someone, not only do I almost always regret it afterwards, but I try to reflect on how I came to the emotional state that led to the behavior. Being rude, condescending or dismissive is like a sugar high - it feels good at first, but there's a crash after.

I believe PC culture though takes everything to be "offensive" and I believe this is ruining the opportunity to have intense but healthy discussions.

I believe you can't have a healthy discussion where people are not debating with integrity, which includes treating them with respect.

ModThe Djinn12/6/2019, 3:35:09 PM3 votes

This is an interesting post. I'm away for the day, but I will respond when I can.

ModThe Djinn12/9/2019, 2:14:59 PM3 votes

{quoted}The explanation is simple. We have marched in the era of PC culture where everything you say need to have a disclaimer.

Like Ulanopo, I disagree with this assertion.

The vast majority of things do not need a disclaimer, even though people get offended. If I say "I don't like cats" and that bothers someone, the issue is not with my statement, and if they get offended by that that's unfortunate but not my responsibility. Such a comment would never be removed.

Things become a bit trickier with "I don't like Yasuo mains." This implies that you have a specific grievance with a specific type of player based on personal bias towards those individuals, which is skirting the border of what is acceptable here. A better approach would be "I don't come across many Yasuo players I've liked," which avoids the blanket statement and makes it more about personal experience.

Things become outright problematic with statements like "Yasuo mains don't know how to play the game" or "Yasuo mains are self-absorbed players," which I hope I don't need to elaborate on.

Criticism should be allowed on the boards. People should not be afraid to criticize others.

Constructive criticism is allowed. It's not that much of a stretch to ask for "Yeah, Yasuo can be a tough match-up. What about him gives you trouble? Maybe we can give you some specific tips" instead of "Get good. Yasuo's easy to beat." Hell, even "Yeah, in your MMR Yasuo's a brutal match-up. Looking over your games you tend to not get a lot of farm early, which is definitely putting you further behind. If you can work on that, you can probably do better against him." That's criticism, yes -- you're effectively saying "you're fairly low MMR and you can't farm well," but you're doing so in a constructive, respectful fashion.

When is my post considered disrespectful? How far can I go? Is calling someones opinion wrong disrespectful?

How are you doing this? Are you saying "That's wrong?" Are you saying "That's wrong?" and then providing information to back up that assertion? How are you conveying this information, and in what tone? Is your post condescending or respectful? Do you appear to be respecting the individual even if you agree with their opinion? Have you insulted the other player at any point in the exchange in a way that might change how your post is read?

It is, as you point out, a vague rule, because human interaction is complex and can't easily be summarized in bullet points.

CaptainAntiHeroz12/6/2019, 3:15:02 PM1 votes

yup things are getting out of hand

on another note O_O how u do red highlights?