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@Scruffy regarding the Darius Rework

IsIsGankedParis·6/20/2014, 12:14:55 PM·7 votes·5,435 views

We asked a while ago for a date on the Darius rework and that the date isn't sure so that's not the real issue. I was wondering if it was possible for you to hold a discussion with players about the Darius rework and what they want to see in the rework. There are many concerns that Darius players have and wish to discuss with you seeing if they will be addressed.

  1. What are the number of stacks going to be? We heard it will be more than 5 and potentially 10 stacks, this will change itemization of Darius players as to what they will build. Will it for sure be 10 or is it leaning toward the 8 or 7 mark? This could lead on when his skills will hit spikes with certain amount of stacks like say his Q will do poor damage at 0-2, decent 3-5, amazing 5-8, terrifying 9-10.

  2. Will he get natural tankiness/sustain outside of high base stats? He is the only bruiser/tank that I am aware of that has no form of tankiness or sustain. This wouldn't be a problem if he was at 5 stacks still but if he has to get to 10 stacks, how will he survive burst or even some duels with the likes of Jax if he can't survive long enough to get that high? An idea was that for every bleeding enemy champion he would take 5% reduced damage cap at 25%(these numbers can be fiddled with, just a general idea)

  3. Will there be new conditions on how his ult can be reset? Some suggested that the Darius ult should only reset when you have X number of stacks on a foe but will this be the case? It sounds like a good idea on paper but wouldn't this potentially hurt his team fighting? A scenario, there are 3 low hp foes and all would die from 1 ult with 0 stacks but because he needs X amount of stacks to reset, he can't secure them all with his ult(note his ult is considered a dash so if they all have about a distance of 200-400 units away from each other he would dash to 1 after the other).

  4. Will his ult at max stacks do the same amount of damage as live? Morello said in the model they were working on Darius, at 10 stacks it would do the same damage as live which is 5 stacks, isn't that a little unrewarding for Darius? Shouldn't he do even more damage at 10 stacks than 5 stacks of current live Darius because it is so much harder to build up all those stacks? Say if at live it did 700 at max stacks wouldn't something along the lines of 900-1k damage at 10 stacks be a little more appropriate? That is a huge difference but you have to realize getting to 10 stacks is a lot more difficult than getting to 5 stacks.

  5. What will his skills scale on? Total AD or Bonus AD? It was said that Darius will want to have a more tanky, less damage build with the rework, so will his skills still scale on Bonus AD or will it become Total AD? This is a pretty self explanatory question so not as much detail is required.

  6. Will his kiting issue be addressed? His E was "nerfed" with its range going down to 540 from 550 and the wind-up time changing, note these were undocumented notes. Will he be compensated with more move speed or a better gap closer with a lower cd? Right now he is a go in hard champion or a get kited hard champion, a horrible combination. If the enemy wants to kite the new Darius wouldn't it be appropriate for Darius to have ways of sticking with the enemy better instead of getting kited obnoxiously hard?

  7. Will he become a late game champion, an early game champion, or well rounded? Right now he is a strong early game champion with poor scaling into the late game unless he is fed. Will you be shifting his power from the early game into the late game or make him a champion with a decent but not great early into an amazing duelist late game like Jax/Trundle?

That's all I know of what Darius players want to have addressed, there are probably more but I think I hit the main points of Darius's problems. A discussion with players to see what more could be added and hopefully not ignored would help. Like perhaps a "Let's talk about Darius thread could be made either here or on GD(might not be the greatest idea but a bit of people are there).

Thanks for reading this, I appreciate it.

16 Comments

RiotMorello6/20/2014, 8:24:52 PM7 votes

These are very specific and not ready to talk in detail about those (I always think the details are pretty mutable anyhow!). But I can answer a few queastions:

  • What about bleed damage? I think Bleed Damage should be rewarded more in the skill damage ramp than the bleeds. Maybe at higher levels is could go up over the current amount, but I'd imagine the bleed damage itself wouldn't be seeing huge increases.

  • Will he get tankiness? In this Darius model, he actually needs to be very tanky - agreed. We're requiring him to spend more time in combat to score kills, so more tankiness is required to get him to be able to do that. Some of this would be itemization, some maybe in skills, or base stats.

  • His kiting issue will NOT be addressed - on purpose. This version of Darius would eventually win any long fight. The key play to deal with Darius is to peel him and keep him off you. I think being kitable is a fine weakness, and there's quite a few champs with moveblocks who can be played for those players who hate being kited :)

Does this help?

MaingoSeven6/21/2014, 2:39:25 PM2 votes

With Champions like Jax, Rengar, Ryze, Tryndamere, Vi who can all outduel the current Darius while also being good vs ranged due to good gap closers, strong CC and in Ryze's case his own range; How do you plan to make Darius better at dueling than them to make up for the fact that he lacks the hard CC and gap-closing potential they recieve?

My biggest impass has always been that since a lot of his power is back-loaded into his ultimate, by the time he hits his stride in a prolonged fight the other duelists have already melted him with DPS comparable to his but a fraction of the ramp-up time. Will Darius just be getting even more powerful and meat-grinder esque, putting even Jax's damage to shame at 8/9/10 stacks? Will this once again cause problems of lane dominance with a total inability to contribute in teamfights and sieges?

Thanks for your time Morello.

RAMAR7136/24/2014, 1:47:57 PM2 votes

It might be kind of late to say this now but I dont think Darius should be reworked. He is one of the only 2 Anti-Tank champions in the game (the other one being Vi) and changing that would only decrease variability and uniqueness to the game. Not only that but he is also very unique for being a big powerhouse (ealy game) without having good escapes or defenses; thats what makes him balanced. By increasing his tankyness and nerfing his damage you would be turning him into another boring tank champ or a type of fighter that already exists. A good Darius player will wreck any top lane tank or fighter but will also be destroyed by top lane ranged champs. Darius is balanced and more importantly unique; i would hate to see him being turned into a more standardized tanky fighter because honestly we already have enough of those and they are boring to play.

Toothless Lion7/3/2014, 4:10:23 PM2 votes

@RiotScruffy

As a Rengar main I'm pretty pleased with the work you did for his rework. Most of the crying people did was due to bugs that have now been fixed (except for the recent savagery bug where it does 2 hits on wards and 2 procs of madreds/wriggles/FF).

Please try to stay true to Darius as an AD bruiser. I think increasing Darius' skillcap and skillfloor would be healthier than turning him into a low damage meatshield.

Mallic6/20/2014, 10:09:58 PM1 votes

[deleted]

uN2Mu0jyU27/3/2014, 3:58:01 PM1 votes

its more nerf than rework. Darius is fine now. He doesnt need anything