Is frost queen´s claim even worth it?

Their Jungler·6/2/2015, 5:20:03 PM·1 votes·1,683 views

So when I started I would mainly go support Morgana. I got to level 14 in LAN playing her mid and mainly support. I always started .

A year later I started playing in NA and used sup again. I read a guide and it suggested . I did not like it because it was a lot of gold investment and rushing into after . I think the gold is invested way better, and since hourglass is absolutely core to Morgana, it made more sense. seems better at the start because you can harass more at low levels. Obviously the build I mentioned above does have items like boots and wards in between.

Anyways, what do you think is better?

13 Comments

AZAR0TH6/2/2015, 5:42:48 PM3 votes

IMO, Never start Dorans ring as morgana support. For dorans ring to be worth it, i think you need to last hit mostly. While on the other hand, spellthief is all you need : gold income , nice proc ability easy to pro with your W or AA, mana reg and something like 5 AP not quite sure. I think you have CDR too. Plus spellthiefs leta you buy 4 potions if you have support masteries

What I do, i usually only get the first version, I rarely upgrade it to 500 or the version after with the CdR book. I'm not sure in what order you usually rush your items. But I usually dont rush hourglass. Depending on the back time, I usually have a sightstone and couple pots plus a pink on first back. Then depending if I wanna go Full AP, I either rush hourglass or morrelo

I personnally prefer the book that lets out 2 ghost that seek for ennemies over frost queen.

Just my two cents.

tLDR spellthief over dorans ring

Red9For LEON26/2/2015, 6:23:43 PM2 votes

You are forgetting one major issue here: its passive. The active on Frostqueen is nice, but its spellthief's passive that makes it a good item. First off, passive gold is always good on a support. Its especially useful for supports that need expensive AP items such as Morg. Then, you've got the other half that really makes it an early game nightmare. Dealing damage to an enemy with a spell does an extra 10 damage and grants you 5 gold, up to 3 times per 30 seconds.

Looking at that mathematical, if you use it to its fullest capabilities, youre getting an extra 15 gold every 30 seconds. Thats the equivalent of 0.5 gold per second or 2.5 gold per 5 seconds. thats superb. Add that to its original 2 gold per 5 and you have a godlike amount of old income, not to mention mana regen AND extra damage. Upgrading it to Frostfang gives you 5 more gold and 5 more damage and more mana regen. That means at its most effective you are getting an extra 7 gold per 5 seconds. That is insane. Now, you won't be operating at full capacity most of the time, but even at half that the extra 3.5 gold per second is still one of the best in the game.

But why does it work on support morg? Her soil. You should be upgrading her soil last as support morg because of how hard it pushes and how poor its scaling is. Its great in midlane, but it does everything you don't want as a support. It pushes lane too hard, it steals minions on accident, and does very little damage if they aren't standing in it for 4/5 seconds. Buying Frostfang turns it from your least useful to most useful skill as support morg. It is incredibly easy to proc all 3 stacks of Frostfang with one soil on one target. This means every time you cast it youre going to get an extra 15-30 gold and do an aditional 30-45 damage. That means if they stand in your level one soil for just 2 seconds, youre doing to do 72 minimum damage, PLUS the adition of their missing health. This is an extreme zoning tool for morg, and the best part is you only need one point in it early on. That equates to no extra mana cost, no unintentional pushing of wave, and no accidental cs stealing.

You need this item as support morg, end of story. And you should upgrade it AT LEAST to Frostfang to get the extra gold and damage. It may delay your Hourglass, but probably no longer than laning phase. Remember that most of the time youre going to get between 400-800 gold from this item JUST from laning phase. Late game it can be sold for Chalice and whichever upgrade you choose. Either way, It is far more valuable than the extra 5 minutes it will take to get your hourglass.

AwesomeChad6/2/2015, 7:29:19 PM2 votes

item 3303 is better than dorans ring on support morgana. For supports , it is extremely important that you buy a gold income income since supports really don't have any other source of income. The number of kills/assists you get varies from each game so its not a reliable source of gold. Getting a gold income item at the beginning of the game guarantees that you get gold regardless of how the game goes. Spellthief's gives you extra gold over time and even more gold when you attack/cast a dmg ability an enemy. Also, you're about to buy an extra health potion (from the gold you saved with this purchase) which allows you stay in lane longer.

ParinoidPanda6/2/2015, 5:47:54 PM2 votes

I prefer the compromise for support ap champs:

Start item 3303 , but under no circumstance upgrade it. It is about all you need for a support ap champ and will be a great income item and good stats and damage since you won't be last hitting, but will likely be harassing. I usually sell it around 25 minutes, or when selling it will get me a major item like item 1058 or a full item. I usually will have 500+ gold gained by around 20 minutes when I finally sell it, which is extremely gold efficient but doesn't hold back your real build.

But yes, unless you need the slow from Queen for kiting, get a better item. It's all about how you use your items and your playstyle.

DreadPirateChris6/2/2015, 5:42:07 PM2 votes

Frost Queen's Claim gives you an extra slow that helps with kiting/peeling/landing bindings for chain CC/holding people in ult tether range. And some CDR. It's really good when people are diving your carries.

Zhonya's gives you armor and stasis. It's helpful if you're taking AD damage and really good if they are diving you (not your carries, you personally) or if your team has no initiate and you want to flash-ult into their team.

I usually want both items sooner or later, but when to get them is situational. If one isn't desperately needed over the other, then it might depend on how much gold I have when I back. If I end up with a Fiendish Codex I'm more likely to finish spellthiefs, if I end up with a needless, I'm more likely to finish Zhonya's.

Also after sightstone you also might be needing something more supporty like a locket or a mikael's, depending on the situation. Or twin shadows.... the ghosts are really helpful if your team is finding it impossible to ward without getting caught out. Once you find the nearest enemy or the ghosts return without finding anything, you know where you can ward safely. (Also slightly useful for the extra slow and and vision when chasing, but I wouldn't buy it -for- that.)

Honestly, I think guides are fairly useless for determining builds on any support... they are some of the most flexible and situational builds in the game, and morgana is no exception.

junglerboy166/3/2015, 2:37:02 PM1 votes

Usually, you either want to stay at item 3303 the whole game unless you want item 3092 for the active. The gold efficiency of the item actually goes down as you upgrade it ( item 3098 in particular is the worst), so if you are upgrading it to have better gold generation, you are wasting you money. Spell thief's offers the best gold generation to item cost ratio of any of its upgrades, and Frost Queen's offers the best overall stats to cost ratio since it has a fair amount of AP too, as well as the active. For morgana in particular where you primarily want it for the gp10, I would say skip the upgrades since you rely on dark binding for initiation, and the renders the Frost Queen's active relatively useless in most situations.

RussoRed6/2/2015, 5:42:42 PM1 votes

the frost queens claim gives more gold near minions so it is helpfull to actual supports morgan is not a main sup champ so thats why it doesent work well with her

AZAR0TH6/2/2015, 5:46:01 PM1 votes

Well obv, every item is situational,, mikael, locket very good also

Drunk Rummate6/2/2015, 5:51:53 PM1 votes

The slow is kind of nice for landing skillshots or disengaging. I'd say its good for like, Annie or Morgana since the lack mobility

NorthernDruid6/3/2015, 11:21:39 AM1 votes

Doran's ring isn't that useful if you're not getting CS though.

The spellthief's line gives you almost as much AP as a Doran's on Frostfang, and upgrades to an item you can actually use in a final build.

It still gives you mana regen, but you get some poke enhancement along with gold generation. 10 extra damage might not sound like a lot, but if you can get three ticks of Tormented Soil off, or 2 ticks and an AA. that's suddenly 30 extra damage, 45 with Frostfang.

Now 30/45 extra damage is now an again the difference between securing the kill and not.

30/45 extra damage on poke is kind of a lot stronger.

One of Morgana's tauted strengths as a support is her ease in proccing Spellthief's passive.

Forst Queen's Claim's active is also pretty good once you learn to hit it.