Harder Bots?

Saturnalia9·2/5/2015, 6:48:13 PM·29 votes·6,858 views

A lot of us play Beginner and Intermediate bots for first win/practice. I was wondering though: is it possible to create a bot match with higher difficulty than Intermediate? Intermediate bots don't really poke too much, and their cs scores are a bit low in comparison to real players. Their builds are pretty much sub-standard; they don't seem to build their items to counter the immediate threat. There is also sadly no jungle bot, which would be fun to play against.

Intermediates were made to prepare the lower levels for some of the PvP factors, but I think they're rather lacking in some aspects. No real ganks from bots, no customizable builds for different situations, low cs, etc.

Is there a way to make a new bot mode, with these "harder" details? And maybe, put more champions into the bot pool for a better variety?

30 Comments

HexaDecimel2/5/2015, 10:25:24 PM4 votes

This is something that I have been wanting for a while. Having a bot that would roam around taking camps and ganking lanes would be awesome. Maybe even warding baron and dragon pit to challenge in a team fight. Along with some better AI and increased stats to make each lane more difficult would be perfect.

Dyodome2/6/2015, 4:53:19 AM4 votes

It is also worth noting that most high ranked players who are really aggressive tend to make the bots very un-fun for people. They always do things their way and steal your kills and CS, and always try to break the Bot's code to get FB by doing some weird shit. But if there was a harder game mode, maybe people would be more inclined to play as a team and work together rather than only aim for as many Pentas as you can, leaving your team in the dust.

Ztoka2/6/2015, 12:56:37 AM3 votes

Up vote because really, it makes so much sense to have beginner, intermediate but no advanced bots.. srsly?! It would be so cool to have an enemy jungler. Right now, bots suck because anytime you want to do jungle, someone cries because you don't "need" jungle in bot games as there are always 2 bots top, 1 mid, 2 bot :/

steelblacksky2/11/2015, 7:06:42 PM2 votes

been waiting on an additional bot tier that grants them full level 30 summoner runes and mastery point allocations for some time. the intermediates still only get the equivalent of level 20ish summoners.

so not only are there the limitations of bot ai coding, but the bots only get a raw power level of a level 20 summoner. this is the number one fix for a new tier of bots that would be supremely simple to do.

i mean can you ever really claim wrecking a pile of lower level summoners didn't put you at a numbers advantage?

SleepyLionCub2/6/2015, 3:06:26 AM2 votes

They should make very high level bots in my opinion. So difficult, that many High plat players could actively train with their main champions.

Saturnalia92/5/2015, 7:01:39 PM2 votes

I hope they impliment a new harder bot mode, and perhaps soon (if they ever get around to doing it). Naming the hardest bot mode "Intermediate" leaves more to be wanted.

Beginner, Intermediate, Hard, Hell?

Siyther2/5/2015, 8:53:46 PM2 votes

i agree that we need harder bots and bot that jungle would so help newer players learn to jungle without having to basic suck at first.

Cerbearus2/6/2015, 1:48:15 AM2 votes

I think you are looking for Doom Bots Level 5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c6mu9bUReQ

3MBER2/6/2015, 6:52:56 PM2 votes

BRING BACK THE DOOM BOTS :3

Celeste Benal2/10/2015, 5:48:23 PM2 votes

WTB Hard-mode bots.

Jungler included.

Mode should also remove the obvious handicap benefits to neutral monsters and lane minions.

Saturnalia92/11/2015, 6:31:24 PM1 votes

The current intermediate bots come up from behind (gank?), but they won't attack you until they get to their destination. Free kills and assists for everyone, and make sure you report the intermediate bots for feeding.

paShadoWn3/17/2015, 6:32:49 AM1 votes

Make second account, get it down to bronze and you will get ample quantities of hard bots.

bad arcade kitty3/17/2015, 6:47:28 AM1 votes

yes but not in a fun way i.e. giving the bots some advantage in numbers

Angry Monster3/17/2015, 6:50:59 AM1 votes

So making AI for bots is harder than it sounds. And if you ever experienced player bots before you will understand how bad they can be when not programmed well.

Right now bots do not even have adjusting builds and spend gold. IF they are at the pad cause of spawn or just getting health the game checks the timers and updates the items of the bot. It does not care about CS numbers , levels, gold, type of enemies. The programmers just gave the bot one build and said that real players can earn these items at these times.

Teaching a bot how to jungle is pretty much impossible, or it would be so linear it would be a joke. Current bot AI does not have the ability to understand buff timers, gank potential and everything else a jungler thinks of when doing a route. When to use a smite or to hold on to. Also you would have to program leashing and bots do not even leave the platform until the minions do.

TheI3igDaddy3/17/2015, 6:59:53 AM1 votes

Programming a jungling bot is a very difficult thing to do. Now I'm no programming god and I have limited experience, but you'd have to program each individual bot to be able to clear the jungle based on their kit and the number of potions they have. Season 5 made the jungle harder. Outside of Fiddle and Warwick, I question how easy it is to make a jungling bot that can actually stay alive through the camps, AND THEN be able to walk into lanes to gank without being so low that they're easily killed.

You may have to program a bunch of stuff into the bot to tell it when to gank, I.E. when the human mid laner is very close to turret range. But then what if they back up to the middle of the map? You'd have the jungling bot moving back and forth near the raptor camp, for example, and not being productive at all. Getting objectives would also be a bit hard to do, unless you gave the bots the teleports that Doom Bots use.

TL;DR I really doubt they'll make a jungling bot.

0115D8CF2/5/2015, 6:56:39 PM1 votes

It's completely possible if other MOBA type games are any indication (though I may just be really bad at them and the bots seem harder). A few that I can think of have more difficulty levels and some interaction like real players would ("Missing top" etc).

Saturnalia910/13/2015, 3:34:12 PM1 votes

Still waiting for any kind of improvement with bots. To be honest, beginner bots are probably harder than intermediate bots (HA!). If the game lasts long enough against beginner bots, you'll realize they can actually get a full build. Intermediates always have that one green and/or pink that takes up a spot, and they won't place it or sell it so they'll only ever get 3 or 4 items.

At the very least, Riot can make the intermediate bots sell the green/pink wards at maybe 20 minutes in. Or perhaps have the "support" bot empty its inventory of wards at the dragon pit while the rest of the bot team just sells theirs.

I don't play bots often, unless it's with someone who just started the game (recently got two people into the game). But with the intermediate bot's item builds they really are too easy. A 3-item build will hardly teach a person how to play via a "challenge".

Nucleophilic atk2/5/2015, 7:00:54 PM1 votes

You must not remember doom bots...

Saturnalia92/5/2015, 7:04:01 PM1 votes

I do remember the doom bots, but that's a special mode that happens to be unavailable as well. Would be interesting to try doom bots though. Perhaps make doom bots a special event sometime, as a 5v3 (with full rewards and a special prize at the end) if your team can beat them.

Downfall2/6/2015, 1:21:26 AM1 votes

Making bots is a lot of work and i dont really think its one of riot's priorities, but it'd be nice to have the option of a harder bot.

Salt and Veigar2/6/2015, 2:07:53 AM1 votes

I remember that bots now also occasionally juke skillshots

Roaming bots sounds really cool though

KidKaiser2/6/2015, 2:49:14 AM1 votes

roaming bot would be easy to abuse.

just like having the whole enemy team chase you around a wall. most notibly bot/top side tribush.

run around there to river. to lane. circle around into tribush. repeat.

as long as the bots have some vision and you're baiting them by poking every now and then. they will chase u endlessly.

unless they become low on HP. then they're running away.

Saturnalia92/6/2015, 4:03:08 AM1 votes

I've noticed that a lot of the newer junglers mainly stay on top lane. It would help immensely if they made a jungle bot that could show them that all the lanes are worthy of ganks. Having maybe 4 or 5 different difficulties for bots would probably make everyone happy.

@Riot, if any of them ever decide to act on this.

Saturnalia92/6/2015, 4:25:53 AM1 votes

Putting this on a different comment for an additional idea:

In bottom lane, the existing support bots keep a low cs while the ADC bot farms for cs. It would be more of an example to all the newer "supports" who try to steal all the last-hits. Also with the addition of a jungler, the solo top lane wouldn't be so far behind with all the cs competition gone.

AiglosSpear2/6/2015, 11:27:15 AM1 votes

All i want to say for this discussion is that, YES IT IS NEEDED!!!..long ago when i played normal blind pick, a dude insta-lock Mundo and insisted to take the top lane. Then after "5 long minutes", the enemy's Singed got the killing spree. I mean come on, Mundo got bullied by Singed that easily with only 5 minutes? then i asked politely to the dude, "hey, are you a first timer?"..the dude hold his peace, then i asked for another 4th time but suddenly my Soraka that answered "yes, he's first timer!"..then i began to say "why Mundo won't take co-op mode?", then that Soraka said something that i never "FORGET".."well somebody has to start somewhere!", but i also said something that noob won't forget either. I said "it sure is not started here" and "hope that Mundo never put his bathing soap on his refrigerator, because that would become an abomination".

Hard Penetrator2/6/2015, 3:46:48 PM1 votes

Twisted Treeline bots are pretty dumb in certain combinations. They get free gold and xp/min so they are never truly behind. They can gank up and defend or even roam and flank, they even fight for altars.

But TT is way smaller than SR so maybe it was easier thing to code.