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About the new TT

Devack The Holy·6/10/2015, 3:49:51 PM·17 votes·5,924 views

Okay, Riot, I'm just going to come out and say it.

YOU SERIOUSLY MESSED UP.

Most of the changes are fine. However, the new Death Timers are absolutely pointless on this map. Just had a game where we got ACED mid game, and the resulting 45-second-plus death timer allowed the enemy team to take in order:

1 Base turret 1 inhibitor almost took the Nexus turret

With no chance for us to defend.

Usually that's fine in SR, with the increased distance between the nexus and inhibitors allowing for greater time to travel and the chance to save the nexus turrets. But on TT, with the much smaller space between Nexus and inhibs, it's much more important to stave off an ACE, or the enemy could end much quicker with no repercussions.

TBH, that's why I liked the old TT. An ACE wasn't as game-ending as it is now. This allows for much more intense battles of back-and-forth.

Not to mention the other problems that plague the mode:

Incredibly high number of bots: When the first question you ask the players who pick free week champs is "Are you human?", that's a bad sign. (Dominion faces this problem as well.) Lack of Normal Draft mode. Lack of Solo Ranked mode.

tl;dr: Revert the Death Timer changes.

40 Comments

RiotMANWOLFAXEBOSS6/11/2015, 12:33:56 AM15 votes

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Death timers are super fickle. Very difficult to tune without thousands of games worth of data. That being said, they are actually shorter early game (6 seconds shorter at level 1), 0.5 seconds higher at level 6, the same at level 11, and slightly higher late game (4 seconds higher at level 18). The interval in which the game adds additional time to death timers was also changed to 30 seconds rather than one minute, but still scales at the same percentage (nothing really change, just smoother). So all in all, I think the outcome of that ace would have been the same pre-5.11.

However, I will definitely be monitoring that stuff as it is really touchy.

In regards to the first tier turret, it is intentionally weak. It has all around lower stats, including attack range and vision. This was done for a number of reasons:

  1. Encourage more objective-focused gameplay
  2. Smooth out early game goals
  3. Encourage/Empower ADCs on a map that they traditionally haven't been terribly valued on (at least outside of competitive levels)

We are very conscious of the concern that games may go too long, but we hope that Vilemaw will help teams close out. Much like death timers, game length is also very difficult to fully understand without tons of data. Same sentiment here though, we're keeping close watch and will adjust as needed.

Lee8996/10/2015, 4:09:31 PM6 votes

Towers are paper now and just flat out die with a few hits

Ranged pretty much dominate the map now since the lane is cut so short that melee can be flat out pushed to where you make it 3v2 or even 3v1

increased death timers are a total joke

the slowed pool healing is a complete joke and just makes all the above issues worse X2

Riot ruined TT flat out and i think they did it so they can just say Eff TT we want to focus on SR

FarRockBF6/10/2015, 3:53:01 PM6 votes

They raised the death timers?

Even in the old TT, an ACE past 15 min meant the game was over (not necc immediately but enough damage to make it certain).

Silents4296/10/2015, 4:54:39 PM5 votes

Evening, I am here to point out unless you have a solution for catching bots then shut the hell up about them, there is no easy way of removing them, and if players aren't reporting that they are indeed bots, then they will never be rid of. Riot is aware they exist, and have acknowledged they exist but no magical cure for removal exists.

Second, The death timers have literally been "smoothed out" if you check pbe you will find the death timers are only slightly higher by a few seconds.

Thirdly, They have no ruined TT, and the towers have no gotten weaker, they have literally raised the defense stats on all the towers and added a 3rd tower for even more defense.

Demonsolder216/10/2015, 5:48:53 PM4 votes

Hmm I dont know man It seems fine to me...

Jettwist6/10/2015, 9:41:02 PM3 votes

I have to agree it seems like Riot just ruined what made this map unique, now its just a cluster of towers. its a small map guys it doesn't need that many towers and with that trinket they might as well throw out {{summoner:2}} all together on the map

CamieMac316/11/2015, 3:14:49 AM3 votes

Riot ruined what was a good map. Now you have zero space in lane. No early ganking and you can hid at 2 towers non stop. I dont play SR because the map sucks. Thanks for ruining this one too. After playing this game since it was made I am finally done.

I main adc and I play it on SR not sure why you need to play every champ on every map. This was a different game style and way to play.

Not to mention we just played a miserable 40 min game. It should never take that long on this map.

I didnt bother trying the blizzard version of this game because I have been so loyal to this game but I am downloading it as I type this. Hopefully they understand their players better and stop making it so you play 1 specific way or you are wrong.

The skill champs now take little to no skill. What a boring game. No skill no good maps lots of bots, trolls, and players who think they are good because riot had to dumb down skill champs so much.

Krynik6/10/2015, 6:51:31 PM3 votes

I think the map is much more fun now. I'm playing it more now than I did before, because before when I played it was always a giant clusterfuck Just my opinion. Maybe it'll change when I play more games

KnownAsylum6/11/2015, 7:15:51 AM2 votes

WHY BOTS....... WHY.... WHY THE NEED FOR A PVP VS BOTS.... WHY??? it dosnt make sense... to collect data? to make game que timers shorter??? either way.... its USELESS literally just played 3 games where my team was entirely made up of bots.... I WOULD HAVE WAITED the extra 5 min to play a damn game... im not incredibly impatient. DELETE THE BOTS! DELETE THE BOTS!!! DELETE THE DAMN BOTS!!!

Maliginant6/10/2015, 7:29:26 PM2 votes

My biggest problem with the new map is the incredible ability for the new turrets to kill an entire wave of cs when you back if the enemy is winning lane. Back in the old map, if you were low you could just back without the fear of losing the rest of the laning phase/game because you're suddenly a lv behind. Weren't the new changes supposed to reduce snowballing?

Rinky Dinky6/11/2015, 3:58:05 AM2 votes

lol they lowered the death timers did they not? I know they did for most of the game

So why accuse them of messing up, when they actually improved everything?

They did not seriously mess tt up when there is only one problem.

Cerbearus6/11/2015, 2:31:00 AM1 votes

Been playing TT and Dom for years and still have yet to see any of these bots everyone complains about...

poodoo6/12/2015, 5:05:16 AM1 votes

Honestly don't mean to be hateful but changing treeline was a mistake. You should really focus those efforts on a new map or game mode instead. Please put it back.

New towers also ruin the starting top lane gank.

Bresn6/12/2015, 8:13:08 PM1 votes

Welcome to ARAM/Dominion bots.

poodoo6/13/2015, 8:20:18 PM1 votes

Please remove the new towers. Failed experiment.