Guys, what was the reasoning behind Talon's choice to stab a dagger inside Kavyn's back and dump his body in the sewers? Is this something that could be deemed a murder or possibly an evil act?
Second question is, does Talons victims include men only or women also?
And why the sewers to dump his friends body? Couldn't the authorities catch him?
Furor Nexis3 votesTalon killed Kavyn as a result of him failing him and proving unreliable. He figured that he couldn't rely on people as it had caused him to nearly get killed, so he took away what his only liability was at the time.
I'd say Talon kills both men and women, he is an assassin and they kill without indifference.
In the world of Noxious, it's either become strong or die, that's the Noxian way. No one would care about dumped bodies piling up, as the Noxians would only see them as the results of failed people who were too weak.
TenshouSNK1 votes[{quoted}](name=Furor Nexis,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=yPVhMprj,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-04-24T09:55:52.166+0000)
Talon killed Kavyn as a result of him failing him and proving unreliable. He figured that he couldn't rely on people as it had caused him to nearly get killed, so he took away what his only liability was at the time.
I'd say Talon kills both men and women, he is an assassin and they kill without indifference.
In the world of Noxious, it's either become strong or die, that's the Noxian way. No one would care about dumped bodies piling up, as the Noxians would only see them as the results of failed people who were too weak.
The fact he murdered his friend, wouldn't that make him evil for killing him? Do you think what he did was right?
Furor Nexis3 votesI think he did what he had to do in order to survive. Consider the lifestyle of Noxians: The strong live and the weak die. It doesn't necessarily make him evil. Evil is a strong word to attach to Talon. It'd be like calling Darius evil, since they have similar circumstances in their rise to power. Or even Swain. In Noxus, power and strength is revered among all. No matter what form it takes. Talon killed his friend, that's true, but did he prolong his suffering? Did he sadistically mock him and torture him? No. He killed him, and removed what he perceived to be an obstacle in his path.
If you want an evil character per say, Xerath would be considered it evil on a moral point of view. He betrayed his king, and when he was sealed with Renekton, he tortured him until he was driven mad.
Elise could be considered evil, as she traded her humanity for power and immortality, and leads others to their doom to be devoured by a giant spider beast in a cavern in god knows where.
TenshouSNK1 votes[{quoted}](name=Furor Nexis,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=yPVhMprj,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-04-24T19:03:55.410+0000)
I think he did what he had to do in order to survive. Consider the lifestyle of Noxians: The strong live and the weak die. It doesn't necessarily make him evil. Evil is a strong word to attach to Talon. It'd be like calling Darius evil, since they have similar circumstances in their rise to power. Or even Swain. In Noxus, power and strength is revered among all. No matter what form it takes. Talon killed his friend, that's true, but did he prolong his suffering? Did he sadistically mock him and torture him? No. He killed him, and removed what he perceived to be an obstacle in his path.
If you want an evil character per say, Xerath would be considered it evil on a moral point of view. He betrayed his king, and when he was sealed with Renekton, he tortured him until he was driven mad.
Elise could be considered evil, as she traded her humanity for power and immortality, and leads others to their doom to be devoured by a giant spider beast in a cavern in god knows where.
So you are stating that Kavyn was a burden and had to be cut loose and Talon was totally right? Everything else you have stated makes total sense, thank you for clarifying. I had just one doubt, seeing Talon and Quinn are rivals, and let us assume for argument sake they maybe team up in the near future or become friends with benefits sort of thing, would it bother Quinn at all that Talon killed Kavyn? Or that he kills several men and women as his job requires?
japan hate acc2 votesTalon isn't evil, per say. Kavyn failed him. He nearly got Talon caught, and cost him the food in the process. He was of no use to him. So Talon killed him, ironically, with the dagger he abandoned Talon for. Regardless of whether or not he was right, it was the concept of strength and survival drilled into Talon's head. Is it murder? Sure. Is it evil? Not so much. As other people mentioned, he didn't torture him. He just knifed him. It was a 'survival of the fittest' type act. Now, am I biased because I am a Talon main? Probably. But anyway, 'evil' wouldn't quite be the correct term. Perhaps 'cold'.
As for his victims, I am almost 100% certain gender does not play a role to Talon on his targets. If Marcus DuCouteau says kill this person, Talon will.
As for the sewers, it actually makes plenty of sense. The authorities aren't going to be combing the sewers in case of a dead urchin. Even if they saw a body of a dead urchin, they'd probably think 'good riddance'. After all, the urchins are the ones stealing the food. And I doubt it was just Kavyn that was put in the sewers. One of Talon's quotes is, "Another body for the gutter.". So the gutters or sewers were obviously a fine place to dump a body after a successful kill.
TenshouSNK1 votesTalon isn't evil, per say. Kavyn failed him. He nearly got Talon caught, and cost him the food in the process. He was of no use to him. So Talon killed him, ironically, with the dagger he abandoned Talon for. Regardless of whether or not he was right, it was the concept of strength and survival drilled into Talon's head. Is it murder? Sure. Is it evil? Not so much. As other people mentioned, he didn't torture him. He just knifed him. It was a 'survival of the fittest' type act. Now, am I biased because I am a Talon main? Probably. But anyway, 'evil' wouldn't quite be the correct term. Perhaps 'cold'.
As for his victims, I am almost 100% certain gender does not play a role to Talon on his targets. If Marcus DuCouteau says kill this person, Talon will.
As for the sewers, it actually makes plenty of sense. The authorities aren't going to be combing the sewers in case of a dead urchin. Even if they saw a body of a dead urchin, they'd probably think 'good riddance'. After all, the urchins are the ones stealing the food. And I doubt it was just Kavyn that was put in the sewers. One of Talon's quotes is, "Another body for the gutter.". So the gutters or sewers were obviously a fine place to dump a body after a successful kill.
Makes sense, but it was his friend and then he dropped him in a sewer. That is just disgusting. So I am guessing his body still floats around down there? Gross.
So does Talon dump women down in sewers too just as he does with male targets? Is that not kind of an indignity to do that to do a woman?
Furor Nexis1 votesMakes sense, but it was his friend and then he dropped him in a sewer. That is just disgusting. So I am guessing his body still floats around down there? Gross.
So does Talon dump women down in sewers too just as he does with male targets? Is that not kind of an indignity to do that to do a woman?
I'm curious as to why you're fixated on women though, since it's an odd topic to bring up and how they/re treated in narrative by a character like Talon. You have to consider what Talon is: He is an assassin. As a general objective in narrative and storytelling, characters who are made to be assassins share a few simple, but similar traits:
A lack of empathy. A target is a target, no matter the race or gender. In this sense it makes Talon indifferent in moral standing, as he holds no personal view of his targets. In that aspect he is neutral. Whether he does it to women like he does to men, it makes little difference. He's a man who can kill without remorse or regrets. As I mentioned earlier, he holds no sickly fascination over his victims, he kills silently and efficiently, as an assassin should. Chances are he's probably killed high level targets and left their bodies in a public place as a message, per whatever orders he got from DuCouteu, but I doubt he's always dumped bodies in gutters, more often than not he's probably killed them where they stood and left the scene. In this sense, when Talon killed his friend, he was only doing it to save himself as to prevent him from being caught.
A code. In some way or form in a lot of narrative, most assassin-based characters hold their own personal code. Talon is no different. He takes orders from no one but Marcus DuCouteu, and that's because DuCouteu is the only man who has bested Talon with the blade, which in retrospect, gave Talon the chance to live, and he also most likely holds huge respect to the only man who has ever defeated him.
Skill in combat and stealth-like abilities. As Talon is an assassin, high profile targets are more than likely a challenge for him, which means he will need to seek more dubious ways to reach his prey. He would also need to be capable of fending off bodyguards/groups/mobs in case an assassination went awry, and therefore he more than likely has multiple ways to kill his targets up close before they can read his moves. It's also most likely that Katarina was trained by Talon, as they both share similar skill in terms of stealth and close quarters combat.
To answer your question, I'd say yes, I'd say Talon has done that to women. Whether it's witnesses or targets, Talon would, if he needed to, dump a body to drop suspicion. As an assassin, everything that could get in the way of his target is an obstacle, and to an assassin, the best way to deal with obstacles is to remove them from the game, and the most efficient way of doing that is killing them and dumping the body in a gutter somewhere. I don't think it's indignant or disrespectful, considering the way he works. You're looking at Talon from a moral perspective, and not what he actually is as a character. He's the type of character that you can't really apply a moral perspective to, especially if you take into consideration, his background and how he's reached where he is at the moment.
So you are stating that Kavyn was a burden and had to be cut loose and Talon was totally right? Everything else you have stated makes total sense, thank you for clarifying. I had just one doubt, seeing Talon and Quinn are rivals, and let us assume for argument sake they maybe team up in the near future or become friends with benefits sort of thing, would it bother Quinn at all that Talon killed Kavyn? Or that he kills several men and women as his job requires?
That's exactly what I'm saying. "Live and die by the blade", as Talon puts it so eloquently.
In regards to your statement about Quinn, I'd say Quinn would be indifferent, as she and Talon share similar roles. She'd probably be disgusted at his kill count at most but that'd be it. Quinn is Demacia's most skilled and talented scout, and at certain times a diplomatic representative. She's been to places no normal man or soldier would dare enter and she's made it out alive without as much as a scratch. You don't get that good without having the ability to drop everything and run and either killing/delaying her pursuers. Her art of stealth would be very comparable to Talons. If Quinn and Talon were forced to pair up, I'd say at most they'd be working for their own interests unless what they faced required them to work together. You also have to take into consideration that both Quinn and Talon are political enemies as they fare from rival nations, and they would most likely try and kill each other.
TenshouSNK1 votes[{quoted}](name=Furor Nexis,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=yPVhMprj,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-04-24T23:51:59.451+0000)
I'm curious as to why you're fixated on women though, since it's an odd topic to bring up and how they/re treated in narrative by a character like Talon. You have to consider what Talon is: He is an assassin. As a general objective in narrative and storytelling, characters who are made to be assassins share a few simple, but similar traits:
A lack of empathy. A target is a target, no matter the race or gender. In this sense it makes Talon indifferent in moral standing, as he holds no personal view of his targets. In that aspect he is neutral. Whether he does it to women like he does to men, it makes little difference. He's a man who can kill without remorse or regrets. As I mentioned earlier, he holds no sickly fascination over his victims, he kills silently and efficiently, as an assassin should. Chances are he's probably killed high level targets and left their bodies in a public place as a message, per whatever orders he got from DuCouteu, but I doubt he's always dumped bodies in gutters, more often than not he's probably killed them where they stood and left the scene. In this sense, when Talon killed his friend, he was only doing it to save himself as to prevent him from being caught.
A code. In some way or form in a lot of narrative, most assassin-based characters hold their own personal code. Talon is no different. He takes orders from no one but Marcus DuCouteu, and that's because DuCouteu is the only man who has bested Talon with the blade, which in retrospect, gave Talon the chance to live, and he also most likely holds huge respect to the only man who has ever defeated him.
Skill in combat and stealth-like abilities. As Talon is an assassin, high profile targets are more than likely a challenge for him, which means he will need to seek more dubious ways to reach his prey. He would also need to be capable of fending off bodyguards/groups/mobs in case an assassination went awry, and therefore he more than likely has multiple ways to kill his targets up close before they can read his moves. It's also most likely that Katarina was trained by Talon, as they both share similar skill in terms of stealth and close quarters combat.
To answer your question, I'd say yes, I'd say Talon has done that to women. Whether it's witnesses or targets, Talon would, if he needed to, dump a body to drop suspicion. As an assassin, everything that could get in the way of his target is an obstacle, and to an assassin, the best way to deal with obstacles is to remove them from the game, and the most efficient way of doing that is killing them and dumping the body in a gutter somewhere. I don't think it's indignant or disrespectful, considering the way he works. You're looking at Talon from a moral perspective, and not what he actually is as a character. He's the type of character that you can't really apply a moral perspective to, especially if you take into consideration, his background and how he's reached where he is at the moment.
That's exactly what I'm saying. "Live and die by the blade", as Talon puts it so eloquently.
In regards to your statement about Quinn, I'd say Quinn would be indifferent, as she and Talon share similar roles. She'd probably be disgusted at his kill count at most but that'd be it. Quinn is Demacia's most skilled and talented scout, and at certain times a diplomatic representative. She's been to places no normal man or soldier would dare enter and she's made it out alive without as much as a scratch. You don't get that good without having the ability to drop everything and run and either killing/delaying her pursuers. Her art of stealth would be very comparable to Talons. If Quinn and Talon were forced to pair up, I'd say at most they'd be working for their own interests unless what they faced required them to work together. You also have to take into consideration that both Quinn and Talon are political enemies as they fare from rival nations, and they would most likely try and kill each other.
oh wow lol, so detailed answer xD. I brought up the topic of gender because I can't piciture the dude drumping female targets he has kliled into a moat of some sort. So Quinn wouldn't have any other opinions at all on what he does on a daily basis? i.e Killed his friend kavyn? I mean if they group up, she would care less? And what about where maybe (hypothetically) become linked in a relationship, she wouldn't care about what talon did with kayvn or view that act as evil? Or she wouldn't care about his past and present, who who he kills etc, be it men or women?
Or in more specific concerning kavyn, would Quinn support talon's decision to cut him off for the burden he was? (This is ofrcouse if they ever meet up, team up, etc, become friends, just hypothetical question, just want to know what Quinn's views are on Talon's decisions of killing people)
Furor Nexis1 votesoh wow lol, so detailed answer xD. I brought up the topic of gender because I can't piciture the dude drumping female targets he has kliled into a moat of some sort. So Quinn wouldn't have any other opinions at all on what he does on a daily basis? i.e Killed his friend kavyn? I mean if they group up, she would care less? And what about where maybe (hypothetically) become linked in a relationship, she wouldn't care about what talon did with kayvn or view that act as evil? Or she wouldn't care about his past and present, who who he kills etc, be it men or women?
Or in more specific concerning kavyn, would Quinn support talon's decision to cut him off for the burden he was?
Cut away the personalities that both Quinn and Talon posses, and they're more or less characters that share the same kind of roles. However they both have vastly different pasts. When Talon killed Kayvn, he was no longer Talon's friend.
I think many people have some headcanon in regards to Talon and Quinn being a thing because respectively by both gameplay and story reasons they are the stealthy, scout like characters of their own nation. They more or less share similar traits. I don't think she'd care much for the boy he used to be, and she'd care more about the man he is now and would be wondering when he'd gut her if he was given half the chance to.
TenshouSNK1 votes[{quoted}](name=Furor Nexis,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=yPVhMprj,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-25T00:34:41.770+0000)
Cut away the personalities that both Quinn and Talon posses, and they're more or less characters that share the same kind of roles. However they both have vastly different pasts. When Talon killed Kayvn, he was no longer Talon's friend.
I think many people have some headcanon in regards to Talon and Quinn being a thing because respectively by both gameplay and story reasons they are the stealthy, scout like characters of their own nation. They more or less share similar traits. I don't think she'd care much for the boy he used to be, and she'd care more about the man he is now and would be wondering when he'd gut her if he was given half the chance to.
So she wouldn't care at all about what he did to Kavyn and what he does to people on a daily basis as his job requires? So she is just like him kinda then no? I mean as if they were friends, would she ever both to ask him or care about why he killed his old buddy? Or would she just agree and support Talon for his decision to kill Kavyn?
Furor Nexis1 votesSo she wouldn't care at all about what he did to Kavyn and what he does to people on a daily basis as his job requires? So she is just like him kinda then no? I mean as if they were friends, would she ever both to ask him or care about why he killed his old buddy? Or would she just agree and support Talon for his decision to kill Kavyn?
Not really, no. I don't think she'd be to concerned about his past. When I mean she's similar to him I mean she would most likely have no problem leaving a trail of bodies, but as a scout that's not her objective, so she would avoid killing unless it was absolutely necessary. I also highly doubt Riot would make Talon friends with her, as Talon has no friends to speak of, just links, contacts, associates and tools for him to use to complete his objectives. The only thing that would come close to him having a friend would be DuCouteu, and even then it's more respect than actual friendship.
TenshouSNK1 votes[{quoted}](name=Furor Nexis,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=yPVhMprj,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-25T00:50:13.662+0000)
Not really, no. I don't think she'd be to concerned about his past. When I mean she's similar to him I mean she would most likely have no problem leaving a trail of bodies, but as a scout that's not her objective, so she would avoid killing unless it was absolutely necessary. I also highly doubt Riot would make Talon friends with her, as Talon has no friends to speak of, just links, contacts, associates and tools for him to use to complete his objectives. The only thing that would come close to him having a friend would be DuCouteu, and even then it's more respect than actual friendship.
So if they became a team, she wouldn't have any problems if he just decided to take a 30 min break, go kill some target, be it man or woman, dump body in sewer, come back and rejoin her and continue the mission ?
Furor Nexis1 votesSo if they became a team, she wouldn't have any problems if he just decided to take a 30 min break, go kill some target, be it man or woman, dump body in sewer, come back and rejoin her and continue the mission ?
Considering their methods, that could actually very much be a thing. Quinn does her own thing, Talon does his, then they rendezvous at a certain time.
TenshouSNK1 votes[{quoted}](name=Furor Nexis,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=yPVhMprj,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-25T01:36:14.631+0000)
Considering their methods, that could actually very much be a thing. Quinn does her own thing, Talon does his, then they rendezvous at a certain time.
damn yo, never took quinn to be cold hearted like talon, seeing she does not care about talon who killed countless people, women too, and his own friend ,
TenshouSNK1 votes[{quoted}](name=Furor Nexis,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=yPVhMprj,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-25T00:50:13.662+0000)
Not really, no. I don't think she'd be to concerned about his past. When I mean she's similar to him I mean she would most likely have no problem leaving a trail of bodies, but as a scout that's not her objective, so she would avoid killing unless it was absolutely necessary. I also highly doubt Riot would make Talon friends with her, as Talon has no friends to speak of, just links, contacts, associates and tools for him to use to complete his objectives. The only thing that would come close to him having a friend would be DuCouteu, and even then it's more respect than actual friendship.
Just one last question, so seeing how Talon had to cut loose the burden aka Kavyn, do you think Quinn would support Talon's decision for killing him?
Furor Nexis1 votesJust one last question, so seeing how Talon had to cut loose the burden aka Kavyn, do you think Quinn would support Talon's decision for killing him?
Yes. I'd say she would, if she was in the same position that he was in.
TenshouSNK1 votes[{quoted}](name=Furor Nexis,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=yPVhMprj,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-04-25T10:11:36.798+0000)
Yes. I'd say she would, if she was in the same position that he was in.
And what would be her say on his methods of disposing bodies especially talons female targets. Cool with that too?
Do you think Quinn has her share of kills to? Compared to talon what methods would she use to dispose bodies? Male and female?
ah well, they both can eat bantha fodder. Screw em. Seems like Quinn is an assassin too from what you state bro.