At least when DC did their great "Retcon" they had 52 stories all lined up...

Mirage Night·Mar 1, 2015·53 votes·2,803 views

Probably should have taken a page from their play book.

And when they didn't listened to their readers, 1/2 of them were canceled. #Batwoman

24 Comments

Chromatic EagleMar 1, 201513 votes

I might be a salty comic fan, but it's sad when DC is praised for their way of retconning something compared to Riot.

MotajoMar 1, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chromatic Eagle,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=vTEtzbtN,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-03-01T18:40:44.402+0000)I might be a salty comic fan, but it's sad when DC is praised for their way of retconning something compared to Riot.

Everything is relative, I guess.

SolideusMar 1, 20151 votes

Having a long list of continuities in comics is so common people might be a bit more accepting of it. I don't think a game like LoL inherently shouldn't do something similar, but it's less common which might explain the outrage.

SolideusMar 1, 201511 votes

I support the new narrative direction, but this is genuinely their biggest failing. The timing on delivering the news was just terrible as they didn't have any content to back it up with. I'm looking forward to future content, but there would have been a lot less salt on the forums if they had handled this particular thing better.

Mirage NightMar 1, 201514 votes

I get why they wanted to retcon, but the timing and handling was poorly done. To many loose ends that need to tie up without any process to do so.

SolideusMar 1, 20154 votes

I totally believe they intend to deliver and will eventually, but in the interim a lot of angry fans had time to mobilize. That's why half the threads are just cesspools of spite and whining.

Kuro BansheeMar 1, 201528 votes

Why? What have they possibly done to instill hope that the most unorganized and undervalued department of the entire game, will deliver. So far since this retcon they've manged:

Turning Cassiopea's into the generic cursed by her search for power character
Turning Ezreal into a guy that doesn't like the spotlight
Turning Rammus's vague history even vaguer
Turning Skarner into generic angry tomb guardian #097
To require changes to every champions history to at the very least a minor degree and several now needing a full rewrite
Made the judgements and JoJ into to nothing more than official fanfiction
To piss off the vast majority of their fan base by not giving us any warning, not having anything so show and not having any contact other than to tell they can't talk to us for legal reasons,

Yes we are whining. Yes we are Spiteful. Yes we are Salty as all hell.

But the fact is much of their hatred is well deserved and has been brought mostly due to their lack of communication and planning. I'll admit that somewhere in the darkest and coldest depths of my soul, their is a microscopic sliver of hope that they will actually do something worthy of praise. But the rest of me has come to understand that its most likely not going to happen.

So again I ask you, what have they done to deserve your belief in them?

Edit: I made a mistake believing that they changed Amumu back into a human, thanks to Myles JT for bringing this to my attention

SolideusMar 1, 20152 votes

So, they seem to want to deliver. That is enough for me to think they'll try to deliver. It just takes a lot of work and time. There seem to be a lot of stuff to settle internally too, which will probably mean it will take a bit longer still. Hopefully they have gotten through a lot of it already, but they might not have.

Narrative isn't a single team, it's a disciple. Their writers have worked on events, videos champions and releases I have enjoyed. There's nothing wrong with the setup they have established, I *really *like their work, as many others do. They have to start following that up with progression, which they say they intend to. A big retcon requires a fair bit of new setup, though. It takes time.

You see characters being changed even though you don't want them to. I see them slowly building a holistic world and narrative, while putting characters in a relevant context they can grow and have agency in. The characters need more, but I think they will get more eventually. But it takes time.

Also, you are making strawman arguments. I think the new Cassiopeia, whom *did *get a fair bit of story, is wonderful. I vastly prefer her new lore over her old one. Some only got the short client lore, but I assume we'll get the long-form lore eventually. But, it takes time.

Wanting warning on one hand but not be willing to wait on the other is unfair. Talking about the retcon without enough to show for it was a mistake that caused a lot of salt, as you know. Given that lesson, wouldn't it make sense for them to get some content together before giving more "warning"? Revealing more plans for the future without anything to show would just create more antagonism.

The narrative "team" can't do everything at once. Hopefully they'll release *something *cool soon, but they have a lot of work ahead of them. Just try and imagine how much there is to do. Working through their backlog will probably take years. If you choose to enjoy the lore, set your expectations appropriately; it'll take a lot of patience. If you don't, don't let your salt ruin it for the rest of us.

Kuro BansheeMar 1, 201510 votes

So, they seem to want to deliver. That is enough for me to think they'll try to deliver

You know what they say about good intentions, right?

Narrative isn't a single team, it's a disciple. Their writers have worked on events, videos champions and releases I have enjoyed. There's nothing wrong with the setup they have established, I really like their work, as many others do. They have to start following that up with progression, which they say they intend to. A big retcon requires a fair bit of new setup, though. It takes time.

Now I do understand that the Narrative is a very fluid department to the point they don't even seem to have a headcount. However that shouldn't be an excuse for making a stupid decision like announcing this large scale of a change without anything to show. They should have waited until they had something concrete, before, they even thought about the idea of announcing it to the community. To me this shows a lack of forethought and planning on their part which isn't a morale booster.

You see characters being changed even though you don't want them to.

Also, you are making straw man arguments. I think the new Cassiopeia, whom did get a fair bit of story, is wonderful.

Please don't put words in my mouth, I want champions to grow into better more developed characters. However the characters that I used as examples were given development and not made better for the fact.

Ezreal is the Indiana jones of the League, he's the guy who goes on adventures normal people could scarcely imagine, he wouldn't be one to avoid the limelight.
Rammus was a simple animal who was given the gift of Sentience and Magical power, his first and only goal was to find others like him. When that failed he decided to search for answer to his existence at IoW. Granted it wasn't exactly Pulitzer prize material they somehow made it even vaguer.
Skarner was the vanguard of his people, the Bracken, whom no longer exist by the current lore standards. Now he is simply an angry monster guarding a tomb in the Shuriman wasteland. How you believe they can improve on one of the most well written and sympathetic characters they have made, by completely changing him is beyond.
The only things that fully changed for Cassiopeia were the catalyst for her curse and the reason for it. Originally the curse was brought upon her by breaking the agreement that she made with a freljord diplomat whom she had seduced. Now she is cursed because she sought power for herself and betrayed her guide to obtain it. That is the major difference, personally I prefer the old version any day.

The narrative "team" can't do everything at once. Hopefully they'll release something cool soon, but they have a lot of work ahead of them. Just try and imagine how much there is to do. Working through their backlog will probably take years. If you choose to enjoy the lore, set your expectations appropriately; it'll take a lot of patience. If you don't, don't let your salt ruin it for the rest of us.

I'm not crazy enough to expect them to simply click their heels thrice and make everything sunshine and rainbows. But the fact that they have destroyed what little respect the community held for them was their fault. They are the ones who decided to ultimately take this route instead of working around the IoW, so they don't have my sympathy. The fact that it will take years to sort through this all once more proves their inability to properly plan things.

I started playing this game because of the Lore so my expectations are high. Now I may not sound it because of all the salt, but I do respect your opinion, I think its naïve to simply trust that they'll do better next time.

So please don't let your naivety ruin it for the rest of us.

SolideusMar 2, 20151 votes

I realize you're just trying to be tongue-in-cheek, but my "nativity" is simply because I never expected everything to go smoothly or at a pace. The art department took a long time to grow to what it is today; from paintovers and loads of belts to today's splashes and designs. I imagine the now excellent music department took time to grow as well. I expect the narrative team to have a similar journey before they reach that level entirely.

Things did go wrong, apparently, but stuff happens. The old lore was less time-consuming to create than what their new holistic goals for it seem to be, I imagine.

What you present as the new development I take to be a placeholder blurb. It doesn't say much more than the general direction they'll be taken. That only makes me curious where they will be taken, rather than impatiently angry they didn't get longer lore NOW NOW NOW.

It comes down to different expectations and taste. I consumed the old lore religiously, but always found it mostly lacking. Some people say the now non-canon JoJ was demoted to "official fanfiction", but to me that's what it always felt like. There often wasn't an effort to create a believable, organic world; it was mostly silly, superficial and meaningless anecdotes that demeaned to characters, in my eyes. (i.e. Janna underwear model, Sivir drunk driving and Blitzcrank's dating service. Ugh..)

What serious lore they attempted before falls flat compared to the more recent events and such, in my opinion. I.e. the Freljord Event as compared to the old JoJ Freljord lore, or swains confusing rise to power in the JoJ compared to Sion's re-release. As I said, they deliver good setup. They haven't gotten to furthering the plot much yet. Hopefully they have enough world-building established to do that soon.

The new lore they have released, through events and such, tickles my imagination much much more and is delivered much better. Some fans feel otherwise but I think they are very unfair by just dismissing the new stuff out of hand just because it isn't exactly what they imagined in their heads.

Myles JTMar 1, 20151 votes

Actually Amumu is a Yordle in the new lore. "He's real, but he isn't a boy," said another. "He's a yordle!" - Line from Amumu's new lore. Everything else is 100% correct tho.

Kuro BansheeMar 1, 20151 votes

I'll be... I apologize for missing that thank you for pointing that out.

Jeddy017Mar 2, 20154 votes

Actually,they didn't say for certain what he was. It was a listener in the story tossing out an idea of what he was. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Amumu/Background The person who said it was just a kid speculating in response to the story.The story teller even laughs in response.So I wouldn't use that as clear confirmation.

KING OF MASKSMar 1, 20157 votes

I'm at the point where my faith in the narrative team has been completely eroded. Now, my good will is starting to go, too.

The delays, the lack of communication and foresight, the general sloppiness of anything and everything lore-related... at first I wanted to give narrative the benefit of the doubt. But Jaredan's latest response to the lore community has really been the last straw for me. I have to assume that he's a hack. Fuck that guy, and fuck narrative. I'm sorry, but at this point my antipathy will only be stemmed by quality lore releases.

MatezoideMar 2, 20155 votes

DC actually thought their rewrite through and delivered some great comics. New 52's Aquaman is godlike.

SaltyToplaneGoatMar 2, 20151 votes

Although ironically the supporting characters in Aquaman are more interesting than Aquaman himself - at least prisoner... that dude's the real MVP here. Or maybe that's just me who can't adapt to the character design of dc...

I don't understand how DC can get something like that done smoothly with an even wider and more spread cast (if you add up heroes and villian's the number will BY FAR exeed the number of LoL champs + maybe important side chars) - and how Riot can fail so absolutely horrible.

Jeddy017Mar 2, 20151 votes

Well,maybe because DC has the benefit of the comics being it's focus.Whereas narrative isn't the main focus of this PVP focused MOBA game that also has a strong E-sports following.

SaltyToplaneGoatMar 2, 20151 votes

Dunno... While Riot is indeed not as focussed on lore and story, they also had way less stuff to do.

And let's keep in mind that no one expected a perfect result on the first day. If they had just focused on a small narrative sub-cosmos (aka. focus on a certain region/certain champs), no one would have complained.

There are maybe 10-15 champs that REALLY suffer lore wise from the retcon, it wouldn't have been too much to actually take care of that first and even use the chance to expand on their lores. Even if it wouldn't have gone flawless, people would have said "Well, you tried, no reason to be mad at you". But currently there is just... nothing.

ImpetualMar 1, 20152 votes

Lol, good point.

GaminonMar 2, 20151 votes

I think the retcon was a good idea with really bad timing. From a story perspective, having to shoehorn every story into the same ending ("and then they joined the league") really is pretty bad.

That said, it would have been a much better idea to have at least roughed out the lore for all the champions (see: short form) before they pulled the trigger on the retcon, instead of just destroying everything and leaving a big hole that they still haven't filled months after.

Is the quality of work they're putting out better? Absolutely yes. But it a hard to appreciate that when your favorite champion is sitting in undefined limbo, trying to keep warm with the tattered shreds of their old lore.

Sneak DogMar 2, 20155 votes

Ending? You have to shoehorn everyone into joining. Now you have to shoehorn everyone into mattering on a global scale. Limitations are always existent.

GaminonMar 2, 20151 votes

Not sure I agree with that. I mean, yeah, everyone in the league is gonna be a larger than life character. It's the league of LEGENDS, after all, not the league of average-joes.

But look at Braum. He's a folk hero of the Freljord, out to protect people. He's not on the world stage, but he's got an awesome backstory and was fleshed out in a really cool way. Rather than being forced by the old lore to end up in the league like everyone else, he can kinda do his own thing and help contribute to the depth of Runeterra a lot more.

Sneak DogMar 2, 20156 votes

He's in the Avarosa tribe. He is allied to a faction that matters on a global scale. He could've instead been in the IoW with the same level of commitment.

Also, the IoW is not an end, it's just a part.

KriterianMar 2, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mirage Night,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=vTEtzbtN,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-03-01T09:13:12.288+0000)

Probably should have taken a page from their play book.

And when they didn't listened to their readers, 1/2 of them were canceled. #Batwoman

Comics without stories are just pictures. Games without stories can still be played, especially fighting games. I don't need to know anything about these champions except how their abilities work. I can hit Q without knowing the name of the spell.