How does Ionia deal with The Harrowing?

darkdill·Feb 18, 2016·4 votes·14,817 views

Does the Black Mist ever approach Ionia's shores, or is Ionia in a completely different location due to the world map being obsolete?

44 Comments

RiotRiotJaredanFeb 18, 201611 votes

The Black Mist can go anywhere, but Ionia is very much unlike anywhere else in Runeterra. Shen has seen things that will turn your poop white. Don't expect him to run at the sound of a rattling chain. Though that doesn't mean he'll come out better than anyone else. It'll just mean he won't back down. Ever.

darkdillFeb 18, 20162 votes

Courage alone isn't enough against the undead, though. What sorts of magic/spirits/etc. from Ionia would actually turn back the undead?

Bilgewater has Nagakaboros, Demacian weapons are automatically anti-undead, but what about the Ionians?

RebonackFeb 19, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Courage alone isn't enough against the undead, though. What sorts of magic/spirits/etc. from Ionia would actually turn back the undead?

Bilgewater has Nagakaboros, Demacian weapons are automatically anti-undead, but what about the Ionians?

My money is on paper talismans that ward of undeadl/evil spirits.

...that might make for a neat champ concept. An Ionian priest.

EvenstarFeb 19, 20163 votes

facepalms can you guys not make out a new champion out of everything. Paper talismans, Ionian priest all sounds so stereotypically Asian. What next? That Ioanian priest is going to be a support to fulfill your role fantasies?

No offense but please think outside the box. Ionia is a place of spirituality and mysticism, when Jaredan mentioned the Black Mist doesn't faze Shen, it most probably means that Shen knows where his faith is and that it will help him in battling the evil. It's not because Ionia uses paper talismans to ward off evil.

Ionia is more to what you know about Asians culture in general, so please don't go off saying something silly. Like paper talismans and proceed to suggest some Ionian priest who might fill support roles.

@Jaredan, and really? Is that all you can say about Ionia? I'm disappointed.

RebonackFeb 19, 20162 votes

{quoted}

facepalms can you guys not make out a new champion out of everything. Paper talismans, Ionian priest all sounds so stereotypically Asian. What next? That Ioanian priest is going to be a support to fulfill your role fantasies?

Nah, I was thinking more of a zone control mage. The game could use more of those.

No offense but please think outside the box. Ionia is a place of spirituality and mysticism, when Jaredan mentioned the Black Mist doesn't faze Shen, it most probably means that Shen knows where his faith is and that it will help him in battling the evil. It's not because Ionia uses paper talismans to ward off evil.

Faith doesn't seem to really fit into Shen's character. He's a justice sort of guy. That, and the abstract ideal of 'balance'. Whatever that might amount to. He's all about the proper order of things. Making the world right through effort and self-control. Not so much faith. I haven't seen any evidence of religions in Runeterra that place focus on faith as a central tenant.

Ionia is more to what you know about Asians culture in general, so please don't go off saying something silly. Like paper talismans and proceed to suggest some Ionian priest who might fill support roles.

Did you mean 'Ionia is more than what you know about Asian culture'? If not, I'm having trouble parsing that sentence.

And Ionia is totally a grab bag of Asian tropes and folk-lore. We've got a nine-tailed fox, a blind Shaolin monk, a kirin, ninjas, two flavors of oriental swordsmen, a character literally lifted from a Chinese epic, a dude obsessed with 4 due to Chinese numerology, and a weird thing that looks like it pranced out of a Studio Ghibli movie.

EvenstarFeb 19, 20161 votes

To answer your reply..

Fair enough, zone control mage.

As for Shen and faith, I'm not implying Shen is as faithful compared to someone like Karma or Soraka, it doesn't mean he has no faith. Shen is raised as an Ioanian, he is grounded in the Ioanian culture of spirituality. Even if its not part of his character development, it doesn't imply that Shen has no faith. Religion is not something explicitly expressed in League, but it is indirectly portrayed through Ionia, which is a place of spirituality and mysticism. Spirituality is a religion on its own. or sub-religion if you want to be precise. Almost all Ioanian champions practice and preach different forms of faith, Karma, Soraka, Kinkou Order, Zed, Syndra etc. The simple point I want to express is that Shen is not afraid of the black mist because he knows where his faith is, and in this case, its his own spiritual power from the Kinkou Order (ie: Eye of The Twilight). Balance in its own is a force, and force is somethings perceived as a mystic power/spiritual power, not because some dude in Ionia is putting up paper talismans so you get to see a new champion few patches down the road. Don't degrade Ionia's values please, I don't mean to be rude, but what you're making out of it is some silly white culture - "COOOL, SOME GUY CAN SUMMON PAPER TALISMANS AND WARD OFF EVIL".

Next, yes it was a typo. I meant there's more to Asian culture than what you know. Ionia has a bag of stereotyped Asian culture + folklores. Nine tailed fox, ninjas, monks, swordsmen, warrior, studio ghibli references, these are all stereotypical archetypes depicted in movies that you see and know. But that's not all to it. Some infrequently discussed topics are Spirituality, which is something more interesting to bring over to the Ionian lore and background, or the Yin/Yang culture (not Kindred style), or the worshiping of Celestial figures (ie: Soraka).

Having some popular, iconic figures like ninjas doesn't automatically make Ionia distinctive. Ionia's always been about spirituality and Riot hasn't quite explored that side of it because that would they're touching on a sensitive issue if they got it wrong - Religion/Faith. Having explained that, I hope you wouldn't go telling people Ionia is Asian enough just because it's got some typically depicted Asian archetypes in a white movie.

RebonackFeb 19, 20163 votes

{quoted}

To answer your reply..

Fair enough, zone control mage.

As for Shen and faith, I'm not implying Shen is as faithful compared to someone like Karma or Soraka, it doesn't mean he has no faith.

Ah, I think you misunderstand.

I don't mean faith as in 'oh that guy holds a thing to be true'. I mean faith in the sense of choosing to not only to believe, but to actively place trust in, something/someone that is by definition unknowable and incomprehensible to mortal minds. The source of power Shen is using is pretty darn comprehensible. He can use it to manifest a sword to slap fools with.

Besides, given how much of an immediate impact the supernatural has on the game world (see: Illaoi's friend-tentacles) 'faith' really isn't that great of a term to be tossing around. Illaoi doesn't have faith in her god. Rather, she agrees with her god's ideals and ethics.

In the same sense, Shen seeks to uphold justice and balance, which may or may not be tied in some way to the cosmic force of balance that Bard represents? Honestly, we don't really know. There's too little information. It's wholly possible that the teachings that Shen follows aren't religious at all, they could just as easily be ethical guidelines alone more akin to Confucianism than anything that could be considered a religion in the more traditional sense.

Shen is raised as an Ioanian, he is grounded in the Ioanian culture of spirituality. Even if its not part of his character development, it doesn't imply that Shen has no faith. Religion is not something explicitly expressed in League, but it is indirectly portrayed through Ionia, which is a place of spirituality and mysticism. Spirituality is a religion on its own. or sub-religion if you want to be precise.

'Spirituality' is an incredibly vague term that should be avoided at all costs in any sort of meaningful discussion. Mysticism is the belief that through introspection, hidden knowledge, meditation, ect a person can attain oneness with the Absolute, whatever that may be.

Riot has explicitly stated that no such being or force exists in their setting.

Almost all Ioanian champions practice and preach different forms of faith, Karma, Soraka, Kinkou Order, Zed, Syndra etc.

Different forms of ethics, arguably. I've seen no evidence to suggest that what they're doing has any religious significance. As you pointed out, Riot has shied away from overtly religious anything for the most part. Which is a real shame. Religion can tell you quite a bit about how a group of people look at the world. Religion often gives context.

The simple point I want to express is that Shen is not afraid of the black mist because he knows where his faith is, and in this case, its his own spiritual power from the Kinkou Order (ie: Eye of The Twilight).

That may be accurate. If Balance is anything at all like Tao, then it would imply that there's a fundamental natural order of things, an Ought to the universe. Undead things typically fall outside the 'natural order' in most settings. But again, who knows? Riot hasn't given us enough information to draw a meaningful conclusion.

Balance in its own is a force, and force is somethings perceived as a mystic power/spiritual power, not because some dude in Ionia is putting up paper talismans so you get to see a new champion few patches down the road. Don't degrade Ionia's values please, I don't mean to be rude, but what you're making out of it is some silly white culture - "COOOL, SOME GUY CAN SUMMON PAPER TALISMANS AND WARD OFF EVIL".

It might be a fundamental force. Or it might just be a system of ethics the ninjas follow. Or it might be a thing that Bard upholds rather than something inherent to reality, just one weird ineffable guy's idea of the way things should be.

But y'know what's most important here? Making champions that are thematically, visually, and narratively interesting.

And you know what's a really cool thing we don't have in the game yet?

Paper magic. The concept that 'words have power, written words doubly so' is deeply ingrained in many cultures. The closest thing we've got right now is Ryze's magical tattoos. If those words let him throw lightning at things, then why not words of Balance that are anathema to things outside that Balance?

Next, yes it was a typo. I meant there's more to Asian culture than what you know.

Well, yeah, no kidding. I'm not a scholar.

Ionia has a bag of stereotyped Asian culture + folklores. Nine tailed fox, ninjas, monks, swordsmen, warrior, studio ghibli references, these are all stereotypical archetypes depicted in movies that you see and know. But that's not all to it. Some infrequently discussed topics are Spirituality,

Spirituality isn't a thing. The term is so vague it can be used to refer to anything and is thus useless. Though I'm curious, have you read Tao Te Ching or any of the works of Confucius? Or dug into the folklore and mythology of China, Korea, Japan, and India? 'cuz I have. I'm a bit more familiar with it than just stuff that pops up in Anime.

which is something more interesting to bring over to the Ionian lore and background, or the Yin/Yang culture

So Taoism? There are already quite a few references to Taoism in Ionian champions, their philosophies, and their designs.

(not Kindred style), or the worshiping of Celestial figures (ie: Soraka).

Was anyone worshiping Soraka? I never really got that impression. Though some more information on her and her kin would be nice.

Having some popular, iconic figures like ninjas doesn't automatically make Ionia distinctive.

Ninjas are pretty distinctive.

Just sayin'.

Ionia's always been about spirituality and Riot hasn't quite explored that side of it because that would they're touching on a sensitive issue if they got it wrong - Religion/Faith. Having explained that, I hope you wouldn't go telling people Ionia is Asian enough just because it's got some typically depicted Asian archetypes in a white movie.

If people weren't so thin-skinned about fictional deceptions of religion, then maybe Riot wouldn't need to walk on egg-shells with the subject.

Case in point: you going off on your 'but muh cultural appropriation!' SJW rant because someone had the audacity to think that a champion inspired by traditional Shinto paper talismens would be neat.

EvenstarFeb 19, 20161 votes

I auto closed the tab so I have to type everything again, bear with me if my responses are short and confusing. But basically...

Case in point: you going off on your 'but muh cultural appropriation!' SJW rant because someone had the audacity to think that a champion inspired by traditional Shinto paper talismens would be neat.

Wrong. I'm not upset that you're conceptualizing a paper champion out of paper talismans. I'm more disappointed by the fact you disregarded Spirituality as a unique element and force in protecting Ionia, and blatantly put it out there some Shinto dude is using paper talismans to protect the Island, which is silly and so hollywood-like.

'Spirituality' is an incredibly vague term that should be avoided at all costs in any sort of meaningful discussion. Mysticism is the belief that through introspection, hidden knowledge, meditation, ect a person can attain oneness with the Absolute, whatever that may be.

Riot has explicitly stated that no such being or force exists in their setting.

Different forms of ethics, arguably. I've seen no evidence to suggest that what they're doing has any religious significance. As you pointed out, Riot has shied away from overtly religious anything for the most part. Which is a real shame. Religion can tell you quite a bit about how a group of people look at the world. Religion often gives context.

I debated back and forth about writing Spirituality at first, but I'm glad I did. Yes, Spirituality is a vague term, but just because it lacks definition/zero significance to you doesn't make it any more worthless to the rest of the people. Spirituality is a neo-religion, a modern religion that is also portrayed as a way of life. There are people who practice and preach it, despite not having clear area of understanding, it has been widely accepted as a form of religion and respected everywhere. Not understanding something doesn't mean you get to disregard them because it holds no meaning to you. Rule 1 of any religion, respect any forms religion, or if your religion doesn't teach you that, then rule 1 of way of life.

Even though Riot has not officially confirmed Spirituality as a force in Ionia, it has been a part of Ionia since its conceptualization. It's only a matter of whether Riot wants to push forward with it. And to close off the discussion, Spirituality is included within Religion, think of a Venn Diagram, Spirituality is under religion. This should help you understand things better. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/mistic/mistic_10.htm In this case, Spirituality has conceptualized as a belief in Ionia.

I wrote a longer reply to this, but I'm too tired to rewrite everything after I accidentally closed my tab. So I'll argue again later when I remember something.

It might be a fundamental force. Or it might just be a system of ethics the ninjas follow. Or it might be a thing that Bard upholds rather than something inherent to reality, just one weird ineffable guy's idea of the way things should be.

But y'know what's most important here? Making champions that are thematically, visually, and narratively interesting.

And you know what's a really cool thing we don't have in the game yet?

Paper magic. The concept that 'words have power, written words doubly so' is deeply ingrained in many cultures. The closest thing we've got right now is Ryze's magical tattoos. If those words let him throw lightning at things, then why not words of Balance that are anathema to things outside that Balance?

Once again, not a matter of paper magic.

Spirituality isn't a thing. The term is so vague it can be used to refer to anything and is thus useless. Though I'm curious, have you read Tao Te Ching or any of the works of Confucius? Or dug into the folklore and mythology of China, Korea, Japan, and India? 'cuz I have. I'm a bit more familiar with it than just stuff that pops up in Anime.

So Taoism? There are already quite a few references to Taoism in Ionian champions, their philosophies, and their designs.
(not Kindred style), or the worshiping of Celestial figures (ie: Soraka).
Was anyone worshiping Soraka? I never really got that impression. Though some more information on her and her kin would be nice.

I'm Chinese, and I studied in a Chinese high school. I'm required to study Chinese literature and I can tell you our Chinese studies reference Tao Te Ching and Confucianism. But neither of these are religion, but a way of life. I've returned most my knowledge to my class teacher, mainly because I never liked Chinese lit to begin with, but I can tell you it's not a religion, but more of an education and philosophy or way of life.

Yin-Yang is not exclusively Taoism, its referenced in Taoism but is mostly philosophy for all religions. Kindred's depiction was a mere depiction of life and death (how one is born to the moment their life ends), but Yin-Yang is also about harmony vs. discord, the balance of life, when there is life, there shall be death.

In regards to Soraka, what I meant to say is that Soraka may revere certain Celestial figures. Her old lore depicts her as a worshiped and respected figure among Ionians, her new lore doesn't reflect that but since the idea is not pushed away either, she's most likely still a celestial figure in her own right.

Ninjas are pretty distinctive.

Just sayin'.

Ninjas are not representative of Ionia. Also, are they distinctive just cause you get to live your fantasy of doing cool stuffs as a ninja?

If people weren't so thin-skinned about fictional deceptions of religion, then maybe Riot wouldn't need to walk on egg-shells with the subject.

I for one am fine about fictional religions, as long as it references the right thing about a part of the religion. I know some people jump at slight error, but in Riot's case, it's doing anything it can to disregard Spirituality, which is what the past narrative team have done to set up Ionia's story nicely.

Tldr, I'm not upset that you're excited about a paper champion. But boy, if you think the paper champion must be uniquely Asian/Ionian then obviously, it's not right. Riot can easily design a champion out of paper powers without having the need to borrow religion and still look cool. Ever heard of R.O.D (Read or Die)? Why I'm upset is that you disregarded Spirituality and its role in protecting Ionia as a whole and think its a concept that should be throw out of a window simply because it makes no sense to you.

RebonackFeb 19, 20161 votes

Sorry to hear your post got eaten. That's really frustrating.

{quoted} Lots of stuff.

It sounds like we've got a misunderstanding on our hands, then.

If Ionia is protected from the Black Mist, it would (probably) be because the force of Balance that keeps it out. If Balance is indeed a universal Ought, a natural order of things, then it would make quite a bit of sense that it would be bad news for the undead since they exist outside that natural order.

Paper talismans wouldn't be keeping out the Black Mist. That, as you said, is silly. Rather, the force of Balance manifested in the lives and actions of the people of Ionia would be keeping it out, from top ninjas like Shen all the way down to normal peasants living their normal lives according to the tenets of Balance. The island would be permeated with a force that's inhospitable to the Black Mist. Paper (or wood or cloth or metal or anything that can be written on) talismans are just one way for it to manifest in a visually interesting fashion.

This is all just rampant speculation of course. Barring Riot giving us more information it's difficult to draw any conclusions.

but I can tell you it's not a religion, but more of an education and philosophy or way of life.

A system of natural philosophy coupled with ethics built on top of it. A similar example in the West would be some of the ethical systems and natural philosophies that various Greek philosophers came up with. While not inherently religious, religious elements can be applied to it.

This should help you understand things better. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/mistic/mistic_10.htm

We may have to simply agree to disagree on this front since we're operating off totally different definitions. Even in the first few lines there 'there are many religions but only one spirituality' is an inherently religious statement.

RiotRiotJaredanFeb 19, 20165 votes

I'm able to say more, I'm choosing not to. Mainly as I don't want to spoil stuff.

DigielfFeb 19, 20164 votes

{quoted}

I'm able to say more, I'm choosing not to. Mainly as I don't want to spoil stuff.

In the old Runeterra map the Shadow Isles are literraly on the other side of the map and Bilgewater on the other one but in this Harrowing event it was described that Shadow Isles are like next to Bilgewater or something and it doesn't really make sense. I know that the old map is not 100% canon but most of it is still the same for example Freljord is in the north, Shurima in the south, Targon in the middle etc

http://st.elohell.net/public/chill/cfbc02695d214461bc7cd93f558b85b2.jpg

DecritFeb 19, 20161 votes

They mentioned a while ago that most of the isles were relocated. Even the countryside of Valoran might have changed a lot.

RiotRiotJaredanFeb 23, 20161 votes

Indeed it has.

RiotRiotJaredanFeb 19, 20166 votes

The old map is in no way canon any more. It does not accurately represent Valoran, or Runeterra beyond.

Photos of GhostsFeb 19, 20162 votes

Doesn't Foundations have any kind of even sketchy new one?... One would think they'd need that to do their job.

RiotRiotJaredanFeb 23, 20161 votes

Yes, but that doesn't mean it's ready for release.

EROTIC RAID BOSSFeb 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yes, but that doesn't mean it's ready for release.

Is that something we might see this year?

It's been a while since the harrowing story, I hope we get a new short story soon

Jeddy017Feb 19, 20162 votes

Must.....resist....urge.....to....ask about.......a new.......map!

EvenstarFeb 20, 20162 votes

And yet the map is not updated. Coming from a reader's perspective, it would just seem all the more unconvincing. "The old map is in no way canon any more" sounded like it came out from nowhere and used as an excuse to fill in whatever lore questions you're having.

Someone says Ionia and Shadow Isles are far apart and then you tell us old map is no longer canon. So how about you tell us how close Ionia and Shadow Isles is, that's not a part of spoiling. I bet you wouldn't say anything though.

RiotRiotJaredanFeb 23, 20163 votes

We've said the old map isn't canon for quite some time. I said so purely because it's true that it isn't canon any more when it was mistakenly being used to clarify concepts.

Ionia is not as close to Shadow Isles as the Serpent Isles, it's certainly beyond the visible horizon from either. Ionia is also much larger than either the Shadow or Serpent Isles.

darkdillFeb 19, 20162 votes

So there could be a Champion who has some small references to Shinto priests?

Maybe even a Reimu expy? ;)

RiotRiotJaredanFeb 19, 20163 votes

There's always a possibility of inspiration, but we try not to directly reference and incorporate real-world religions. It can get tricky working in a completely different world. For example, I remember seeing a gorgeous piece of concept art based on a script we were working on. It took me a while to realize the headstone was in the form of a cross. So that had to change as Demacia doesn't practice Christianity. Keeping the clarity that Runeterra is a different world altogether from our world necessitates that kind of distinction (though there are, of course, things that are the same, it's not a world being written by aliens. Well, except for the legal alien kind) .

darkdillFeb 19, 20161 votes

Hence why I said "small references".

Photos of GhostsFeb 19, 20161 votes

Hey, I asked the last question on the Q&A after it was completed, can I re-ask? Do you know if Rammus was inspired by Tarkus, the caterpillar/tank armadillo from the eponymous Emerson, Lake & Palmer album? Or is he just Bowser and that's all?

RiotRiotJaredanFeb 23, 20163 votes

Rammus is Rammus, OK?

Photos of GhostsFeb 23, 20161 votes

www'alrite.

RebonackFeb 19, 20161 votes

{quoted}

There's always a possibility of inspiration, but we try not to directly reference and incorporate real-world religions. It can get tricky working in a completely different world. For example, I remember seeing a gorgeous piece of concept art based on a script we were working on. It took me a while to realize the headstone was in the form of a cross. So that had to change as Demacia doesn't practice Christianity. Keeping the clarity that Runeterra is a different world altogether from our world necessitates that kind of distinction (though there are, of course, things that are the same, it's not a world being written by aliens. Well, except for the legal alien kind) .

Avoiding the direct references is a pretty great way to go. That hasn't excluded all such references, however. Karma, Ragnarok, ect. Even something as simple as iron gates around cemeteries is due to the medieval European belief that iron wards off or hedges in spirits.

I'm really fond of what you guys did with Illaoi. Her religion is basically Buddhism turned upside down and backwards. Instead or rejecting desire, they embrace it. So that gives us some insight into the Serpent Isles.

I would absolutely love to hear what religious life (if any) is prevalent in the various nations. We can draw a few conclusions from the ethics/natural philosophy of Ionia, and the Rakkor clearly venerate various celestial bodies, and the Yordles used to have their whole Mothership thing...

But aside from that, there are mostly big mysterious question marks.

If you could share some insight into this stuff (if any such insight exists) that would be great.

RebonackFeb 19, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I'm able to say more, I'm choosing not to. Mainly as I don't want to spoil stuff.

Stop teasing us like this, it's cruel.

RiotRiotJaredanFeb 19, 20165 votes

Sorry, it's one of the issues of wanting to chat about stuff but when things are cooking on the stove I can't really speak to them in ways that could undermine the work of the teams working on things. That and I'm a tease. ;)

KinjishiFeb 20, 20161 votes

So... you're a Tease main, Mastery level 7, Challenger rank? =b

RiotRiotJaredanFeb 23, 20162 votes

Maybe.

EvenstarFeb 19, 20162 votes

Yeahhhhhhhh, same ol same ol. Sorry Jaredan, as much as I want to believe you, the Narrative team has been in/out, in/out of things. You guys published short, incomplete lore which is already a sin on its own (rather than to wait for a team member to complete to full deal before updating Champion bios), your narrative qualities have taken a step for the worse. You guys relied way too much on first person narratives to portray stories, even your third person narratives have a taken a toll for the worse.

I get that you want to abolish the Institute and establish a story within League itself, but even with the Institute gone, your current team of writers lack the necessary competency to deliver interesting narration. Every updated lore is currently too obsessed with depicted characters in that cool moment (Fiora dueling, MF gunning down people, Kalista taken a swordswoman's life and saying some cool line like "We walk the path of vengeance as one, now."). And also an excessive amount of released chapters for a champion's lore.

Before I get to Ionia particularly, what happened to RiotRunaan? Who screwed up some parts of the lore back in 2013? Gone because she can't write adequately?

Jaredan, I know you mean well, but I'm not convinced, and I've also lost hope in the team for the simple fact that they've been out of the loop for a long time and appearing once in a well just to say something, get upvotes from easily pleased crowds and think they're doing a good job.

I've been following lores since S2, read almost every old Champion lores, and felt a heavier connection towards champion than I currently do, and the lore had more intricacy, appeal and easily understood than current lore offers. These days I read a lore, and I think "Oh my god, so tacky, so unnecessary, and too much show". You guys are taking the lores in a wrong direction, attempting to make every character look good, feel good, having their "WOW" moment, when you're actually making it worse. The word counts in your lore are more than your older stories, and they sound worse. I think you know this very well, more words =/= a good story.

You don't have to say anything, my only thoughts now are that the Ionian lore is going to be screwed when the big event hits the patch, changed drastically and you will have new players who like it, and your old fans who don't. I foresee the narrative team changing Ionia from becoming a neutral political party, to some silly country that has decided to raise arms against Noxus and is placed in to the Ionian-Noxian conflict featuring Demacia as an ally.

Why do I say that? Why, you've changed Karma from that tranquil, serene lady to that lady who is forced and justified it as "change is scary, but we need change".

Spoiling stuffs? I don't think you would spoil anything for talking about something more than Shen at the moment. No one is asking for spoilers, but people want to know more because Ionia is infrequently discussed. But nevermind, the fact is you won't say and I still don't have faith in y'all.

And if you think my tone in this post is brash, rude or self-centered. I'm terribly sorry you feel that way, as with a recent incident that the balance team had caused months back, whatever negative things that are put out will eventually result in to a Rioter accusing users of attempting to upset people.

But really, now that you're here. Let me ask you and the entire narrative team, how many "my apologies, we didn't do well" is it going to take and how many "Riot, I'm disappointed in your narratives" posts will it take to make y'all realize your current style of narration just isn't going to cut it? There's going to be another apology I assume, and the same mistakes occur again.

What more can I say? Except that I'll re-read all my Ionian lores once more and remember them fondly because one of your bad writers will be going in to write a piece of horribly written story in the near future. And no "You won't be disappointed" will not cut it these time. Of all things to be strict with in League, lore is one of em. And I think you'd agree with me, nevermind that the others don't, like the balance team for example. Even though 70% of the community are obsessed with the game and nothing else, I still think nicely written story is what makes a player feel connected to a game, just like how the Mass Effect franchise has established a connection between players and the story.

SplisionFeb 19, 20161 votes

I actually do thoroughly enjoy the new lore and I do feel connected to the game even with all of the updates. Granted I am a new player (I started roughly a year ago) I still remember reading the old lores involving the Institute, the summoners, and the League.

Courier EightFeb 19, 20161 votes

Yeah, speaking as a veteran player (I still weep that I can't build Force of Nature Singed anymore): I actually am really fond of every scrap of new lore we've gotten. Problem being of course that there's still a lot of blank spots from the retcon, but even those are getting filled back in. Jhin gave us a lot more insight into Ionia post-invasion, cementing the Noxus-Ionia war in the new lore as well as finally showing us the aftermath- something that I really have been waiting for since the old lore days! Ekko gave us more insight into Zaunite life for average folks, and humanized Zaun as well as a more nuanced Piltover, when until then all we really had was Piltover=Good Science and Zaun=Bad Science, Viktor before his Glorious Evolution nonwithstanding.

Basically, the release of a new champ gives the lore team a chance to really flesh out the cultures of Runeterra. How much more did we learn about Demacia than we ever had before Fiora came out? How much more did we learn about Bilgewater last year than we had ever known before? I'm sorry the lore isn't to your tastes, but we haven't been getting poor quality stuff and we haven't been getting it infrequently. I'm a lore junkie so I'll always want more, but until Riot starts releasing books or lore uncoupled with gameplay updates, I'll be content to wait.

SplisionFeb 21, 20161 votes

lol you responded to the wrong guy... I think.

Courier EightFeb 21, 20161 votes

Nah, I was just agreeing with you and showing support as an older player! The new stuff is good, regardless of whether or not you're new or a veteran.

SplisionFeb 22, 20161 votes

Ah ok my apologies. I'm also a lore junkie. I wouldn't call myself an expert on the lore, but I do anyways. Nice to meet you (this is the Internet but who cares).

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

EROTIC RAID BOSSFeb 19, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I'm able to say more, I'm choosing not to. Mainly as I don't want to spoil stuff.

If you were to give a brief one sentence description of each major nation, that tells us something we haven't always known, I wonder what you'd say.

HelmightFeb 19, 20162 votes

I mean, to be fair, Riot tried to think outside the box with Jhin as an Ionian champion and a lot of people were unhappy with it.

KinjishiFeb 20, 20161 votes

A lot of people, who? He seems like a nice addition to League.

HelmightFeb 20, 20161 votes

There were a few upvoted threads on Jhin's release day about how he felt shoehorned into being an Ionian and should have been from Zaun instead. I disagree with them, but not everyone was happy about it.

RebonackFeb 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

There were a few upvoted threads on Jhin's release day about how he felt shoehorned into being an Ionian and should have been from Zaun instead. I disagree with them, but not everyone was happy about it.

Visually, he has a very Piltover sort of look to him. The rose motif on his skills also has a very Demacian vibe to it. And of course his obsession with 4 is because Chinese numerology. I suspect it's because he changed origins over time.

SplisionFeb 19, 20161 votes

Actually Jaredan said that Shen has seen a lot of horrible things. If anything he's just used to dealing with scary things. Also the question was basically how do the Ionians deal with the Harrowing not how is Shen going to save the other Ionians from the Harrowing. Something else I should add is that you ask for others to think outside of the box and to stop stereotyping the culture, and yet we get samurais and ninjas from Ionia. I'm not saying we shouldn't expect more from Ionia, but to get mad at someone for expecting another Asian parallel from Ionia when we've mostly obtained Asian parallels is kind of ridiculous.

Edit: I just read your reply to the other guy (a long list of replies) and I do apologize for my response being redundant.