Are Judgments Still Considered Canon?

Chromatic Eagle·Nov 15, 2014·3 votes·993 views

I mean, I've always figured they wouldn't be with the removal of the IoW, but some Riot posters tried to calm us into thinking that and the JoJ are still canon. Just remove anything that has to deal with the League. But Xerath is a good example of how Judgments can be removed from the story as the champions are remade. A part of me isn't too worried since they never finished writing those, but some judgments were important in how I saw some champions. If they won't be removed anymore, then they should be included into their stories in a way the average fan can find and read.

11 Comments

Sneak DogNov 17, 20144 votes

Technically any lore that still works without summoners is canon. In practise, any lore/character narrative dislikes gets retconned into something entirely new they do like.

OuroboroNov 20, 20142 votes

Man, judgements are one of my favorite parts of the lore besides the JoJ...

They really really give a more in-depth view of the characters by delving into their past and learning things about champions that were never revealed in their simple backgrounds. You wouldn't even know Lux had that conflict within her unless you read her judgement.

To consider ALL of them non-canon all of a sudden just feels like a waste, and it kinda kills me inside because I loved them.

GreenLoreNov 15, 20141 votes

Well they do say that as long as any new lore doesn't contradict the old lore,then the old lore is still canon. So I'd say that most judgements are canon.....but that doesn't mean they won't get retconned anyway,I mean its not like they never retconned anything even before they revealed that the league won't be canon anymore.

So for the time I'd say that most judgements are currently still canon,but everything that hasn't been updated for a long time is subject to change.

We know for certain that Karmas Judgement isn't canon anymore as warwick isn't the alchemist whose weapons brought death to ionia,but singed instead,same goes for xeraths as xerath was thinking about stopping the ritual while he was ascending,but his new lore suggests that his preparations alone made it impossible for him to stop(we can't know if tabia from the judgement is still canon or not,she isn't mentioned in any piece of lore,but that doesn't mean that she can't be there at all)

SchaakaKonNov 16, 20143 votes

You forget that most (if not all) judgements involve summoners. So right at the root we can say that the Judgements are not canon, to all our disappointments.

GreenLoreNov 16, 20141 votes

However they did say that you can look at the old lores who still mention the league and basically erase the part with the league and take everything else as canon. For example take ahris lore and remove the last 2 sentences and voila you get her current canon-lore,she is still the same as before,but she didn't find a solution to become human without killing yet. Judgements could similarly be handled,just because the part with the league isn't canon anymore,doesn't mean that past events that are described in them aren't canon anymore.

Chromatic EagleNov 16, 20144 votes

Judgements could similarly be handled,just because the part with the league isn't canon anymore,doesn't mean that past events that are described in them aren't canon anymore.

But that's the problem. Xerath is an example of how that's not the case. His entire past was rewritten. The League made it clear what he wanted. This new lore, not so much. Does he want freedom? Revenge against Azir? Force Ascension on everyone? Destroy or conquer the world?

I mean I would like to believe that most of the judgments will be canon, and hopefully told in their stories, but am worried that Xerath might be the standard.

GreenLoreNov 17, 20141 votes

Does it mean that none of the judgements are canon just because that is the case with one judgement? When Trundles lore got retconned did you instantly assume that every other piece of lore is no longer canon?

I dunno why everyone thinks that suddenly nothing is canon anymore when plenty of the stuff in many lores can stay the way it is(and many lores were already made with the retcon in mind),riot has always retconned certain stuff,why should they now suddenly retcon everything at once?

Sneak DogNov 17, 20143 votes

Right now, I am keeping in mind with any story from Riot that it might get retconned entirely in a couple of months to the point where the characters get replaced by new ones. Any retconned pieces I keep in mind it could be retconned in a year. There seems to be little willingness to have a discussion about this or even to lay out all the arguments.

I can't enjoy Leagues lore when narrative seems to just retcon anything they don't like at the moment without second thought. I can't invest in these characters that get retconned and replaced as if it's nothing.

Chromatic EagleNov 17, 20144 votes

Does it mean that none of the judgements are canon just because that is the case with one judgement?

We don't know. That's why the thread was made. We don't know if Xerath is the new standard where they abandoned "preserve character identity", a fluke caused by bad communication, or a rare case of biting the bullet because some champions need to be reinvented like Sion.

When Trundles lore got retconned did you instantly assume that every other piece of lore is no longer canon?

I didn't play or follow the lore much during that time. What I remember from the old forums though was that people were upset on how many champions were retconned to be a part of the Freljord conflict. Trundle was the most controversial. In hindsight though, it was a sign of how detached Riot had become regarding the League until its retcon.

I dunno why everyone thinks that suddenly nothing is canon anymore when plenty of the stuff in many lores can stay the way it is(and many lores were already made with the retcon in mind),riot has always retconned certain stuff,why should they now suddenly retcon everything at once?

Plenty of things can stay the way they were, including the League. Except for possibly the Harrowing, I haven't seen an event or lore development that contradicted the League's existence. That's a part of what people have been arguing for months. If Riot doesn't want to make something canon, regardless of their reasoning, they can retcon it. We knew some things were getting retconned, but before the League retcon, we assumed it was retconned with the League in mind. That's a reason why this thread was made. Will they keep the rest of the judgments in mind?

We're afraid of their sudden retcons because so far they have shown how they're going down a slippery slope.

RainbowgasmNov 18, 20141 votes

the judgement itself? no, probably not. The "flash back" featured in the judgement on the other hand can probably be left in tact for many champs like Vlad, Irelia, and Lux. Not so much for guys like Trundle and Maokai who were retconned since then.

BoswickNov 19, 20141 votes

"League judgement" implies the character is being judged by the IOW high council of summoners on their worthiness to be a champion in the Lesgue of Legends. Considering both the high council and the league itself no longer exist I doubt any of it can be considered canon, except for maybe a few.