@Bioluminescence: Since you answered my Shinto topic, what about Voodoo?

darkdill··2 votes·3,536 views

Thanks for answering my topic on "Mikos and Shinto priests", Bio. However, there's another one I'd like to ask.

Would it be possible for there to be any sort of faction or Champion that is largely influenced by Voodoo? I ask because DotA2, Warcraft, and Diablo all have Voodoo characters, but League so far doesn't.

Is there something about Voodoo that Riot finds "too controversial" or "too icky"? Or could we eventually see some sort of Champion who flings evil spirits and curses at their enemies?

EDIT: To address Bio's comment, there's no need for it to be 100% Voodoo. It just needs to make you think "Voodoo-esque", if you will.

19 Comments

Sharjo10 votes

Here's the thing about Voodoo and Vodun; they're complete religions. Warcraft actually does voodoo well because it actually what Troll Voodoo is about; reverence of the Loa and functioning alongside them, and it takes its own spin by having metric crap tons of loa distinct for various troll tribes, each with their own unique names. Voodoo/Vodun's not nearly as binary a thing as "spirit's be with ya" as much as that is essentially the thing you think about when considering Voodoo. It's not something I'd say is easy to do well because the lazy way of doing Voodoo is going with the "spirit's be with ya" line and just taking from real world context. Doing Voodoo well would require, imo, crafting a plethora of loa/vodun and building up an entirely new society/culture who's way of life is focused around said loa.

So basically making a Voodoo champion/faction isn't as simple as saying "Go with the whole spooky spirits angle and we're done!" especially from a story stand point. I'm confident you already understand this Yousosmart, my main thing here is for people to understand the Voodoo/Vodun is something that'll take a bit more effort than you'd likely expect to actually be satisfying from a story standpoint. Hopefully that made some modicum of sense.

Chromatic Eagle1 votes

I'm not even sure if the Voodoo lands are still canon, but if they are, you summed up what Riot has to do. Diablo Witch Doctor's are a better idea of what Riot can do. Read the Witch Doctor short story.

Sharjo2 votes

Yeah, I'd LOVE IT if we could get some Voodoo in Runeterra, but I'd also not want it slapshod. I'd prefer it done well and to see a Runeterran take on the concept of Voodoo rather than just Voodoo getting shoved in for the sake of it. I'm confident Riot could pull it off, just whenever I see this topic brought up I always remember that Voodoo's way more complex than what people assume; than I assumed before I went and discovered it for myself.

RiotBioluminescence4 votes

{quoted}

Here's the thing about Voodoo and Vodun; they're complete religions. Warcraft actually does voodoo well because it actually what Troll Voodoo is about; reverence of the Loa and functioning alongside them, and it takes its own spin by having metric crap tons of loa distinct for various troll tribes, each with their own unique names. Voodoo/Vodun's not nearly as binary a thing as "spirit's be with ya" as much as that is essentially the thing you think about when considering Voodoo. It's not something I'd say is easy to do well because the lazy way of doing Voodoo is going with the "spirit's be with ya" line and just taking from real world context. Going Voodoo well would require, imo, crafting a plethora of loa/vodun and building up an entirely new society/culture who's way of life is focused around said loa.

So basically making a Voodoo champion/faction isn't as simple as saying "Go with the whole spooky spirits angle and we're done!" especially from a story stand point. I'm confident you already understand this Yousosmart, my main thing here is for people to understand the Voodoo/Vodun is something that'll take a bit more effort than you'd likely expect to actually be satisfying from a story standpoint. Hopefully that made some modicum of sense.

I couldn't have said it better myself, Sharjo.

Making a canon champion who was clearly a Voodoo priest would be the same as adding a Catholic priest, or a Buddhist monk, or an Islamic Imam. In a world without those religions, those positions and archetypes don't make sense.

Now, that's not to say that there aren't things in League already that have been influenced by these things (we are products of our cultures, after all) but just wholesale inclusion into the main body of League canon would be a bit odd.

I will add, though, that Annie has a 'doll' that contains the spirit of a terrifying, burning, bear spirit. Does that count?

Sharjo8 votes

See Bio gets it! If you want a religious archetype, or really any archetype that draws from real world sources then you can't just plonk it in; you've gotta work it to the context of your game and MAKE it fit, otherwise it just sticks out like a sore thumb. Things can be inspired, but when it's shoved in it shows.

I will add, though, that Annie has a 'doll' that contains the spirit of a terrifying, burning, bear spirit. Does that count?

Well her doll IS the bear; the teddy is just a magically induced form of Tibbers done by Annie. He was and still is a living bear, he just got tamed by Annie, and she likes making a stuffed bear out of him. Don't ask me why he's on fire though; probably a side effect of Annie's magic but I dunno.

Centuros1 votes

Pretty sure he's supposed to be some sort of demon...

2nd Fiddle1 votes

{quoted}

Well her doll IS the bear; the teddy is just a magically induced form of Tibbers done by Annie. He was and still is a living bear, he just got tamed by Annie, and she likes making a stuffed bear out of him. Don't ask me why he's on fire though; probably a side effect of Annie's magic but I dunno.

[Disclaimer: my knowledge of voodoo consists of like 20 minutes wikipedia research and reading Shadowman so anything I say should be considered with that in mind]

One thing I'm pretty sure is a fair guess is that some part of Annie is going to have to change before she can make sense in Runeterra. Annie has always been very visually distict(good) in a way that makes her look completely disconnected from everything else(bad).

But...if Voodoo is a thing in Runeterra and Tibbers is a mojo she made, suddenly she makes her own sort of sense and this fixes a very big problem in an intuitive way. This does require the Voodoo Lands to get more voodoo, and I think we can do that.

Sharjo3 votes

The thing is for me is the concept of Annie is totally solid; incredibly talented mage who's still a child, tames a bear that she keeps as a pet through magical means, but her clothes are weird. Annie weird real world clothing that makes no sense for her to wear in ANY context. She's essentially wearing a school uniform.

On the Mojo thing; Mojo's more related to having a sort of spell or magic on hand in a container of sorts, be it a bag or amulet or what have you (as far as I know). It'd be kinda weird but also kinda cool imo to have Runeterran Voodoo have Mojo being the enthralling of an animal and having them as a guardian of sorts.

(Disclaimer: Mojo is a part of Hoodoo, not Voodoo. I know that's weird but they're actually quite distinct from each other; Voodoo's closer to Vodun-the origin of these things than Hoodoo is.)

With all this in mind though I feel like people would have a fit if they all of a sudden changed both Annie's apparel and made her a Runeterran voodoo practitioner.

Ralanr1 votes

Maybe it's Piltover fashion?

Sharjo2 votes

She's likely never been outside of the Voodoo Lands in the new canon, so I doubt it. I also doubt Piltover has a far enough reaching fashion industry for Annie to get clothes from there without leaving said Voodoo Lands.

Also Annie's clothes are STILL an anomaly even in Piltover; Piltover's fashion is more hextech themed or high society fashion, not school girl outfits. I might be wrong here but Annie's clothes come from Piltover, or ANYWHERE in Runeterra.

Ralanr1 votes

I always assumed their fashion was more modern.

Graves also has some modernish clothes.

2nd Fiddle1 votes

{quoted}

With all this in mind though I feel like people would have a fit if they all of a sudden changed both Annie's apparel and made her a Runeterran voodoo practitioner.

I fully agree, but something about Annie's needs to solidly connect her to the rest of Runterra. If we change anything about her adorable little girl appearance, she'll lose most of her character.

The way I see it the best way to connect Annie to the rest of the world is through Tibbers, and I see two ways of doing this: Tibbers looks like he comes from somewhere, or Tibbers looks like he was made somewhere.

darkdill1 votes

That's more or less what I was trying to do. We don't need it to be 100% carbon copy Voodoo, but definitely it has to be inspired by it.

Baron Von Bangin2 votes

What about Lee Sin, the Blind MONK? Or all of Demacian that borrows heavily from medieval Catholicism in terms of holy lights of "JUSTICE!"

I'd say there's definitely room for Voodoo-esque champions/factions if we can have "not-Buddhism" and "not-Catholicism."

TotalJerk2 votes

The idea of a Monk isn't exclusive to any particular real world religion, though.

Baron Von Bangin1 votes

True. Being a monk isn't exclusive to any particular real world religion. But to say Lee Sin isn't based heavily on real and existing Shaolin Monks is being willfully ignorant.

I'm not saying that Riot basing ideas on existing religion is bad. I would love to see a Voodoo character or a badass Priest character. I don't think certain tropes should be avoided just because it might hurt the sensitivities of "srs bsns" religious practitioners if a video game character looks like it could be based on how they dress.

I don't see why Shaolin Buddhism is 'okay' for Riot to base a champion on but a priest or Voodoo inspired character would not be.

darkdill1 votes

I guess. But nothing says the Champion can't be Voodoo-esque, right? Not totally Voodoo, but definitely inspired by it.

For instance, what if you were to not make this Champion a shaman or witch doctor, but instead a "Voodoo" deity? As in something like this!

http://imgur.com/pi27oIf

Here's the story I'd have for this particular idea:

Long ago, in the Kumungu Jungle (where Nidalee and Zyra come from), there lived an ancient society that worshiped old gods that, today, is long-extinct. Centuries ago, these people were wiped out by an invading army, despite how fiercely they resisted, and despite the efforts of a powerful shaman who led them.

On the eve when they would become extinct, the shaman performed a ritual to a powerful, but evil god (whom I'll call Gobomba for this) to smite the invaders, knowing that invoking the dark god's wrath would certainly spell the end of their people. During the ritual, the shaman is killed, but this ends up stirring the evil god Gobomba, who unleashes a terrible curse upon the invaders, utterly annihilating them via a magical plague. This plague, however, also killed those who had summoned him, leaving no survivors.

Centuries later, an expedition into the Kumungu Jungle finds the dark god, Gobomba, now corporealized inside a large wooden idol. They disturb the dark god, angering him and bringing forth a terrible threat upon Valoran.

That's just a rough draft, but do you think it could work?

RiotBioluminescence5 votes

{quoted}

I guess. But nothing says the Champion can't be Voodoo-esque, right? Not totally Voodoo, but definitely inspired by it.

For instance, what if you were to not make this Champion a shaman or witch doctor, but instead a "Voodoo" deity? As in something like this!

http://imgur.com/pi27oIf

Here's the story I'd have for this particular idea:

That's just a rough draft, but do you think it could work?

Inspiration is great - and to your edit in the original post, I agree. Something could be done that evokes similar emotions to those of an outsider's view on voodoo. More skill would be required to give something a feel inspired by the insider's view on voodoo, and a much lighter touch would be needed!

tl;dr - Inspiration is great. Wholesale copying of existing religions out of context is weird, and thankfully not what you were asking for :D

Tesla Effect1 votes

Voodoo Shaman are Tabu in LoL.

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