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Placing every champion's alignment via DND terms: Take Two

Trolosaurus··5 votes·2,213 views

Hola I did a thread like this a while ago and it was fairly popular. I had fun with it and the lore's changed a bit since then, so I say we should try again. Aatrox Lawful Evil. Represents the bad side of war. Horrors masked as victories, slaughters masked as heroism, etc. He pushes you to the point of too far under the mask of glory and fighting back. Ahri I'm guessing Chaotic Neutral, having transitioned from Chaotic Evil, slowly becoming Chaotic Good. She's making an attempt to change. One could also argue she's True Neutral becoming Neutral Good. Akali She's the Neutral Evil of the Kinkou trio. She's remorseless and murderous, only following Shen and acting as the evil side of the whole good/neutral/bad of the Kinkou. Alistar Lore's old, so I'm going to make a guess as to how he'd fit in and say Neutral Good. Amumu True Neutral. He just wants a friend m8. Anivia Lawful Good. Annie Described by rioters a long time ago as a kid with a bit too much power. However that art book made me think about it again. I'm putting her somewhere Neutral for now until I decide for certain. Ashe Neutral Good. Unite the Freljord through the power of friendship (tm). AurelionSol Seems to have been twisted into Lawful Evil. I'll be honest, I don't like him very much lorewise so Sol fans please help me out here! Bard Lawful Neutral. Worker of the cosmic order of balance and preservation. Blitzcrank Neutral Good. Nice guy, introvert, wants to be left alone/free from my impression of him. Brand Chaotic Evil. Wants to murder everything to high hell. Braum Neutral Good. Overall a nice guy. Caitlyn Lawful Good. She's the sheriff. By the books cop. Cassiopeia Neutral Evil. Sits firmly in the middle of the evil spectrum. Evil because power. Smart/restrained enough not to be Chaotic. Chogath I really can't tell you about him. His lore is disgustingly old. Chaotic Evil is my guess. Corki Same problem as above. I'll go with Lawful Good as that seems appropriate for a soldier. Darius Lawful Evil in an excellently described form. Probably the best example here. Diana Chaotic Good. I mistakenly put her as Lawful Evil like a dumbo last time. Now I'm fairly certain she lies on this spectrum. She's fighting against something that isn't good for certain, but she's not a bad person, just willing to do bad things to achieve a good goal. DrMundo Chaotic Evil. Extremely far into Chaotic Evil. Draven Also Chaotic Evil. Selfish, arrogant, egotistic, kills for fun. Ekko Chaotic Good or Chaotic Neutral. Not a bad guy, but definitely not in line with the law. Elise Lawful Evil. Seems to follow a sort of code in her new lore. Could be argued Neutral Evil. Evelynn I couldn't say. Evil somewhere. Ezreal He likes adventuring and exploring. So... Chaotic Good? Fiddlesticks Lore too outdated. Probably still Evil. Fiora Lawful Good or Neutral. Lives by a code like the rest of Demacia. Fizz Chaotic Good. Lore is outdated but from what we've seen he's a mischievous trickster that isn't necessarily malicious. Galio Lore is old, probably Lawful Neutral. Gangplank Lawful Evil. Will do what is what to keep Bilgewater under control. Did better than that ponce MF (#TeamGP) Garen Lawful Good. So far Lawful Good he's stuck up his own ass. Gnar True Neutral. No real alignment except self-preservation most likely. Gragas Chaotic Neutral. He likes beer and people drinking beer. Fond of a barroom scrap. Graves After Burning Tides, I'd say Graves is Chaotic Neutral. Hecarim Hyper-aggro Chaotic Evil Heimerdinger Lawful Neutral. Logical individual Illaoi Lawful Neutral follower of a Lawful Neutral god. Irelia Lawful Neutral. I'm basing this off of her being from a Neutral land and her being a soldier. Ivern goes here when he comes out. Neutral Good to me. Janna Neutral Good. Lore is quite old, so I can't make much of an assumption. JarvanIV Lawful Good king of a Lawful land. Jax True or Chaotic Neutral. Lore needs a serious update. Jayce Chaotic Good. A real dickhead, but Chaotic Good. Jhin I struggled with this one. I really don't know. Chaotic Evil didn't seem right for him, as he isn't like Jinx who destroys because she can/ He's a deeply disturbed individual, so I'll put him into Chaotic Neutral for now but I'm still uncertain. Jinx Chaotic Evil. Rioters argue she's Chaotic Neutral but I disagree. Blowing up buildings and gunning down civilians isn't Chaotic Neutral because she clearly likes it and wants it to continue unlike Jhin who wants to stop but feels he can't for some reason. Kalista Lawful Evil. Let me explain. She's an embodiment of revenge and anger, which is highly negative. She also works off of pacts, entrapping souls within her. Based upon this, I consider her Lawful Evil. Karma Neutral Good. Karthus Neutral Evil, or Lawful Evil. Uncertain to me. Kassadin Chaotic Good. Will do what it takes to stop void but overall a good guy. Katarina Neutral Evil. Assassin, murderous, kind of a jerk. Kayle Lawful Good to its most pure, fallible form. Had she not been so lawful she wouldn't have turned on her sister. Kennen Neutral Good. Represents the good side of the Kinkou trio. Khazix It's hard to judge the Void, but I'd put him under Neutral Evil. Kindred Lawful Neutral. Some may argue True Neutral because Kindred could be argued as a force of nature but I see them as representative of a law of nature instead. Plus they get PISSED if that law is broken. Kled Chaotic Neutral. Mentally unstable, wants land, will kill you on a whim. Only reason he isn't Chaotic Evil is because murdering people and hurting others isn't his primary concern, but he's very paranoid that is certain. As for Skaarl, True Neutral. KogMaw Kog'Maw seems more concerned about eating that being evil, so I see him as True Neutral that will turn Neutral Evil over time. Leblanc Lawful Evil. Manipulative, schemer, plotting, smart. LeeSin Lawful Neutral. Makes sense for a monk in my opinion. Leona Lawful... something. I'm unsure. Lissandra Cunning, sneaky, insidious. Lawful Evil. Lucian Chaotic Neutral. Will mess you up if you are undead. Could be argued something else, like Lawful Neutral, but I think his current mindset puts him in Lawful Neutral. Lulu Chaotic Neutral or True Neutral. Rather out there as a result of exposure to drugs the glade. Lux She seems like a Neutral Good or Chaotic Good individual stuck in a Lawful Good/Lawful Neutral land. Malphite A Lawful Neutral being from a Lawful Neutral realm. However this lore is probably old by this point. Malzahar Neutral Evil. We're all gonna die if this schmoe keeps it up. Some would say Chaotic Evil but I see the Void as Neutral Evil, thus I put him under Neutral Evil. Maokai Chaotic Good or Neutral. Will do what he does, even if he isn't nice about it, to save the Shadow Isles. MasterYi Was on the verge of becoming evil, but transcended into an enlightened state of mind of which I am unsure but suspect to be True Neutral. MissFortune Chaotic Neutral. Will do what it takes to take control. Not afraid to shoot a fool or two. Mordekaiser Chaotic Evil. Very dangerous. Morgana I don't think she started out evil, more Chaotic Good, but dealing with Kayle's horseshit turned her Chaotic Evil. Nami I really don't know. True Neutral? Nasus I wanna say Chaotic Good but I'm unsure. Someone help me with him. Nautilus Lore outdated. For now, let's go with True Neutral. Nidalee True Neutral. Mostly feral. Nocturne Chaotic Evil all the way. Lore is outdated however. Nunu Nunu and Willump seem to be Chaotic Good. Olaf I got flak for putting him as Neutral Evil last time so I'll put him under Chaotic Neutral. Wants to die, likes to fight. Orianna No alignment. Non-sentient construct for now. Pantheon The embodiment of war, a continual avatar, Lawful Neutral is my guess. Poppy Lawful ~~Stupid ~~Good. "AH GATTA FIND DAH HERO M9" Quinn Lawful good. Rammus Ok. RekSai Neutral Evil, barely sentient at all. One could argue she isn't sentient and thus has no alignment. Renekton Chaotic Neutral via way of insanity. Rengar True Neutral or Lawful Neutral. Neither good nor evil, just hunts. Riven Lawful Evil? Again, I don't like Riven and haven't explored her character, so help me out. Rumble Racist. Violent. Has a point to prove, willing to murder others to prove it. Will likely be changed in Bandle City rewrite. For now, Chaotic Evil. Ryze Lawful Neutral. Does what has to be done. Sejuani I got a lot of flak for this last time but calling her Neutral Evil so I'll call her Lawful Evil. Take what you can get, strong dominate the weak. Shaco Honestly until they update his lore I have no idea who this guy even is. All we know is that he wears a mask. Chaotic Evil is my guess. Shen Represents the True Neutral and is the leader of the Kinkou. Shyvana Chaotic Good. Has anger issues apparently. Is trying to be Lawful Good. Singed Chaotic Evil. Utter psychopath. Sion Formerly Lawful Evil or evil Lawful Neutral. Chaotic Evil after death and resurrection(s) Sivir A True Neutral mercenary torn between being Lawful Good ruler or continuing to be a mercenary. Skarner Chaotic Good. Guardian of his people. Not Evil, but don't mess with his kind. Sona Unsure. True Neutral? Soraka Neutral Good. Performed a Chaotic action and was demoted. Swain Lawful Evil. Plans and plans and plans and.... Syndra Chaotic Evil. A brat with too much power. TahmKench I argue Lawful Evil. A very clever schemer who gets what he wants. Taliyah Chaotic Good? Reminds me of Avatar. Talon Neutral Evil. Taric Chaotic Good. Will protect others at the cost of the law. Teemo Lawful Evil out of necessity. Must be cruel and mean to protect Bandle City. Thresh Chaotic Evil. A right bastard. Tristana The Bandle Gunners seem pretty Chaotic Good to me, so I'll slot her as one. Trundle He's what I like to call Stupid Evil, a Neutral Evil thug. Tryndamere I really don't know. For now I'll say Chaotic Neutral. TwistedFate Chaotic Neutral for certain. Twitch Chaotic Neutral. Very similar to Kled when one thinks about it. Udyr Taught to be Lawful Neutral by Lee Sin. Urgot Chaotic Evil before death, Chaotic Evil after death. A monster. Varus Was Lawful Neutral before, became Lawful Evil to fulfill a purpose. Vayne Chaotic Neutral, treads a very thin line between Neutral and Evil. May be insane. Very dangerous sociopath. Veigar Veigar is complicated. He's "evil" but hasn't actually done anything bad yet. I feel it's his inner yordle nature conflicting with his evil one. I'll give him Chaotic Neutral because he hasn't really figured himself out I feel. I don't think the other yordle's take him seriously either. Hence "You're cute when you're angry" by Tristana. Velkoz Lawful Evil in a realm of Neutral Evil. Vi Chaotic Good. The bad cop to Caitlyn's good cop. Viktor Lawful Neutral. Embrace progress! Think Adeptus Mechanicus. Vladimir Chaotic Evil. Murdered other children for their "Intoxicating scarlet bloom". Then murdered his master. Volibear Lawful Neutral is my best guess. Warwick Chaotic Evil. A real jackass. MonkeyKing Chaotic Neutral working to True Neutral with the help of Master Yi. Xerath Seems to be misunderstood often. I say he's a tragic villain. Neutral Evil? True Neutral? I don't know, he's complex. XinZhao Lawful Good. No questions or doubts. Yasuo Chaotic Neutral. I feel bad for him, but since I hate him in-game it's not THAT much. Yorick Chaotic Good. Has good intentions, willing to do bad things to get to that point. Zac Neutral good. Nice guy. Zed Lawful Evil. Chronic backstabber. Ziggs Chaotic Good. Kinda manic, but not a bad guy. Zilean True Neutral. Concerned mainly about himself and his people. Zyra Neutral Evil. Like Poison Ivy but meaner.

PLEASE criticize me and tell me where I'm wrong/right/whatever.

47 Comments

Beyond Legends4 votes

You do realize the dnd alighnment system is a pretty bad system to know a character. Good and Evil are subjective and forcefully trying to force into catergory is bond to have a bad time.

Trolosaurus4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Beyond Legends,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=qEGnfs2Q,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-09-23T22:45:06.139+0000)

You do realize the dnd alighnment system is a pretty bad system to know a character. Good and Evil are subjective and forcefully trying to force into catergory is bond to have a bad time.

I know But it's just for fun

Beyond Legends1 votes

Yeah but it's pointless. I mean what makes Noxus evil and Demacia good? Darius could be easily argue as lawful good and Garen Lawful Evil. It's too near sighted for a complicated issue, but whatever floats your boat I guess.

AntiSkillshot2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Beyond Legends,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=qEGnfs2Q,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-25T06:33:06.120+0000)

Yeah but it's pointless. I mean what makes Noxus evil and Demacia good? Darius could be easily argue as lawful good and Garen Lawful Evil. It's too near sighted for a complicated issue, but whatever floats your boat I guess.

It's not exactly "Noxus = evil. Demacia = good". A characters alignment depend upon what a character's actions are, as well as the laws in the character's homeland. Example. Vayne is Chaotic Good. She's Demacian. This is kind of expected. Riven is also Chaotic Good. She's Noxian. This is something not expected. The reason both are Chaotic Good is because both seek to undo wrong doing, even if it involves them killing a few (hundred) bad guys along the way. Of course, most would think, like yourself, that Darius should be Lawful Good, just like Garen. This isn't the case. Garen is doing the right thing and is within the law. Darius, on the other hand, is doing what he does for power, but is within the law. Garen is Lawful Good, while Darius is Lawful Evil. Both on the "West" (Left) side of the alignments, but on different poles (Top and bottom) of the alignments.

Beyond Legends1 votes

How is Darius lawful evil? What he does he does for his country? He excuted nobles because it was dragging his country down, how can you even consider evil?

Sounds to me you didn't read the lore right and missing the whole point of what the lore is trying to tell us. Alighment system is a horrible system.

AntiSkillshot1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Beyond Legends,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=qEGnfs2Q,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-25T21:41:54.394+0000)

How is Darius lawful evil? What he does he does for his country? He excuted nobles because it was dragging his country down, how can you even consider evil?

Sounds to me you didn't read the lore right and missing the whole point of what the lore is trying to tell us. Alighment system is a horrible system.

He didn't kill nobles "because they dragged down his country". He did what he did to promote Swain to Grand General (Effectively making Swain the ruler of Noxus). Swain is the shining example of a Lawful Evil character. If Darius was a Lawful Good character, he wouldn't have let Swain become the Grand General. Sounds like you don't understand character's intentions and plans via their lore. Read harder. A Lawful Evil character would execute another character, if it's within the law of their land, if it promotes themselves or someone else. A Lawful Good character would not. Kayle is the highest degree of Lawful Good. She is completely and utterly bound to the laws of her home realm. While she battles against the forces of darkness, she does not execute them to promote or empower herself. She does what she does because the laws tell her to. Darius decided to execute the nobles to promote himself and others, the laws didn't tell him they must die.

I'm sorry you don't understand how alignment systems work.

Beyond Legends2 votes

Why shouldn't he let Swain become the Grand General? Darius could have easily became the grand general hinself but he choose to let swain take the lead. Darius willing gave up his power to let Swain take control so Noxus can strive to be better. I know my lore perfectly sir, I think your the one who is caught on some biases

How can Kayle be “good” if she excute anyone who are suppose to be fallen? She is a blind self rigjteous murder to the angel that have fallen. If you consider that good or the dnd alighment system consider that good than their is something inherintely fucked up about the system.

Fondling Gems3 votes

I would argue Karthus as True Neutral, not Neutral Evil. He doesn't actually kill people or do anything actually bad, he is just a preacher of death you could say. It really isn't any different from preaching for any other religion and death in itself is not inherently an evil thing. Death, like life, falls under the True Neutral Category, and Karthus preaches of death. As far as I am aware he doesn't preach for the shadow isles, he just happens to be a part of them because it is the only way in which he can become as close to death as possible, which is his dream.

GreenLore2 votes

Uhm it seems you haven't read karthus updated lore. He does kill people to "grant them the gift of undeath" even if it is against their own will.

And I'd say that forcing something onto others is rather evil.

Fondling Gems1 votes

I uhh... may not have lol. I was just going off memory. Continue on then.

Sailor Miku3 votes

AurelionSol - Chaotic Neutral. He doesn't care for the squabbles he's been dragged into by the intergalactic race that has enslaved him. He has been driven to the point that he is willing to sacrifice another of his stars (each one of which he considers one of his "hearts") for his freedom.

Jhin - Could be a loose version of Lawful Evil, considering he only kills for his "art," and only on the targets that he's either been contracted to kill. He does end up murdering an inn maid, I believe, but only because she saw too much of what he didn't want her to see.

AntiSkillshot2 votes

I'd say Draven is more Lawful Evil. As his actions are within the Noxian law. In other words, he's allowed to do what he's doing, even though it's not a good thing. Ekko would probably fall in the lines of Chaotic Good. I mean, read the comic involving him, time traveling, and his attempt at saving a friend. Ezreal doesn't really fall into the Chaotic Good, as he's within the law in Piltover. In fact, his exploring the world is actually his job for Piltover. Neutral Good is the most likely, as he's not exactly liked by Azir (For "stealing" that amulet/necklace that's on his wrist), but his putting it to good use. Fiora feels more like a Lawful Neutral. She's challenging anyone that questions her family or acts disrespectfully towards her or her family. While what she's doing is within Demacian law, her actions of challenging person after person leads to a possible morally ambiguous situation. I mean, even one of her own brother's asked if what she's doing is for her family or for herself. She didn't answer that question. Jarvan IV isn't a king... yet... Or they change his lore since I last checked? What Jhin is doing is commissioned by the Ionian higher ups. While even they detest him, he's still doing what is "lawful". Lawful Evil, most like. Jhin also sees what he's doing as art, not that he has a desire to stop but can't. Katarina is Lawful Evil. This is solely based upon Noxian law. You see, you must understand this. The laws of which a character is from kind of effect what alignment they actually are. LeBlanc isn't exactly Lawful Evil. Because what she's doing (and did) aren't exactly in Noxian law. Ironically, she helped Swain (and by extension, Darius) to where they are now, which is a Lawful Evil character. Leona is Neutral Good. I say Neutral Good, because in her lore she rejected killing another child even though she was ordered too. She broke a law, despite what she did was the right (Thus "good") thing to do. Lux is an odd character. She's a mage in the Demacian army, but does not like that fact. She was basically forced, and brainwashed, to be in the army. Interestingly enough, in her old lore (In her Judgment, specifically), it basically tells us Demacia isn't as good as it appears to be. MF is, indeed, Chaotic Neutral. But her actions aren't, specifically, related to a desire for control. She also desired revenge on GP for the murder of her mother. For Nautilus, probably Chaotic Neutral. Orianna's character is based on another character that died during "champion training". Of course, her lore relating to this now considered non-canon. She seems to enjoy inflicting pain, though. Sentience doesn't mean anything when relating to DnD. Being as Rek is basically a vicious animal (from the Void), she's True Neutral, leaning towards Chaotic Neutral. Renekton is 100% Chaotic Evil now. I mean, seriously. "As I live, all will die" Riven is far from evil. Her actions suggest she's not within the law of Noxian (And that Noxus probably believes she's dead), and because she's from Noxian, the other kingdoms/nations don't exactly like her. HOWEVER, her goals is to make Noxus actually be the way she was taught when she was a child. A shining beacon of power in the most righteous manner. Chaotic Good. Rumble is Chaotic Neutral. He doesn't seek to harm or hurt Yordles. He's racist only towards humans. Sejuani can be seen as Chaotic Good. Her actions are against Ashe's rule, who is the current ruler of Freljord, but her desires can be seen as right or good. Going by Freljord's old laws, Sejuani would be Lawful Good, while Ashe would be Lawful Neutral. Singed is in the same boat as Katarina. His actions are within the law of Zuan. Lawful Evil. He also still has his intelligence. Tahm is either Neutral Evil or Chaotic Neutral. His actions aren't within any law on Runeterra. He's also described as a demon. Talon is also within the law of Noxus. Lawful Evil/Lawful Neutral. He also only answers to Katarina's father... Speaking of which, is General Du Couteau still missing in the canon, or...? Taric is Neutral Good. He doesn't exactly seek to harm others, but he's no longer within the law of his homeland, Demacia. Varus broke the oath that he took. He broke a serious law of his land. However, he did break such an oath to seek vengeance on those that killed his family and destroyed his village. Chaotic Neutral. Vayne is based on Batman (Wayne, Vayne). Her actions are just, but outside the law of Demacia. Chaotic Good. Veigar is chaotic because of his time in a Noxian prison. Why he was in the prison is unknown. But, being as it's Noxus we're talking about here, it could be something stupid. He's not good by Yordle standards. Yordle nature is jolly and often friendly. Extremely social towards other Yordles. Have been known to even die without another Yordle nearby. Veigar is more likely Neutral Evil. Xerath sees as though he was treated unfairly and unjustly. He desired revenge on the man who showed him the most kindness, just because he wasn't "free". He also desired power. Neutral Evil. Yasuo is Chaotic Good. He accepted his punished of death for leaving the elder he was sworn to protect to join in a battle, but rejected the death because he was accused of the elder's death. Accepting his abandonment, but rejecting being accused of murder. He seeks to bring the person responsible to justice, but he's branded a criminal in his homeland.

Remember, you must understand the laws of the land of which a character came from to understand what their alignment is.

Ralanr2 votes

Nasus feels more lawful.

And Olaf is actually lawful neutral. I know it's weird, but his driving motivation for death in battle is a heavily cultural one. He would fight against any death that he didn't find honorable.

FiliusCanumSum1 votes

I'd argue Urgot was more Lawful Evil/Neutral when alive, and Neutral Evil in his current state. When he was alive he was just a soldier and executioner acting under orders and his motivation now isn't 'do evil for the hell of it', which is how chaotic evil characters tend to operate, he just wants revenge on Garen.

cinomenapplebae1 votes

Riven would be somewhat lawful evil when she was part of Noxus but now shes taking a turn for being better after she realized that what Noxus is doing is "bad" and after that I guess she would be lawful neutral/ chaotic neutral or evil She stills follows some of the traditions she learnt in Noxus but now regrets some of the stuff she had done for them, She is neutral with Noxus but I guess she want's to create a new life. I would say she will still kill people but stray against a whole army like Noxus. She's really complex since she basically has changed so much from the start of her story to the end.

I would say she is in between chaotic neutral or evil.

JustMonika131 votes

Zed, I'd say is more Chaotic Good, especially with the coming of Jhin and the lore that came with his making. Zed sees what Jhin does as extremely disgusting and wrong, and still sees it as that once Jhin was released from prison, going as far as to ask for help from Shen in bringing him to justice again, most likely by killing him like he wanted to from the beginning. Doesn't change the fact that is personality is slightly asshole-ish, but yeah.

GreenLore1 votes

I think zed is overall hard to pin down. Sure he helps shen to kill jhin,but that doesn't mean that there are no bad sides to Zed. After all it is not uncommon for villains to have some morals.

Personally I'd say zed falls somewhere into the neutral territory for now,but he could be considered good or evil in the future depending on his actions.

AntiSkillshot1 votes

{quoted}

Zed, I'd say is more Chaotic Good, especially with the coming of Jhin and the lore that came with his making. Zed sees what Jhin does as extremely disgusting and wrong, and still sees it as that once Jhin was released from prison, going as far as to ask for help from Shen in bringing him to justice again, most likely by killing him like he wanted to from the beginning. Doesn't change the fact that is personality is slightly asshole-ish, but yeah.

Just going to point out that bit of lore was before Zed opened the Box his old master warned him about. It's also possible this was during Zed's time in exile, also before the old master's death.

JustMonika131 votes

{quoted}

Just going to point out that bit of lore was before Zed opened the Box his old master warned him about. It's also possible this was during Zed's time in exile, also before the old master's death.

Yes and no. The first time Jhin was running wild and Kusho was in charge of the case, Zed wanted to kill him, but Kusho didn't let him and Jhin got thrown back into prison. Now that Jhin's out again, Zed went directly to Shen with news of his release; I assume this event is after Kusho's death at the hands of Zed because Shen wants to kill him and mentions something about Zed's students.

DorkunedAuras1 votes

RekSai definitely has no alignment. She's an animal, confirmed by Rioters. Not sentient.

AntiSkillshot1 votes

{quoted}

RekSai definitely has no alignment. She's an animal, confirmed by Rioters. Not sentient.

In DnD, even animals have alignments. They normally fall under True Neutral or Chaotic Neutral.

DorkunedAuras1 votes

True enough. I based that comment from what he said. If she needs an alignment, she'd probably be Chaotic Neutral.

GreenLore1 votes

As far as I know Animals are considered to be true neutral as that is pretty much considered the most natural alignment.

AntiSkillshot1 votes

{quoted}

As far as I know Animals are considered to be true neutral as that is pretty much considered the most natural alignment.

Yes. But they can become Chaotic Neutral if something causes them to go into an aggressive status without being provoked. If they hunt for the sake of hunting can make an animal Chaotic Neutral. Rammus is the embodiment of True Neutral in League. He does what he does just to keep on being. True Neutral characters and beings first concern is always "Survive". Rek isn't exactly doing what she's doing to "Survive". She does what she does because "GET OFF MY LAWN" type of thing. If Rek was more timid in her actions, she'd be almost pure True Neutral. She's True Neutral first, Chaotic Neutral second.

Leona is Waifu1 votes

I would consider Leona to be Lawful Neutral or Lawful Good. She seems, by actions to be LG, but from the last line of the updated lore, to be more LN. Also, if anyone argues that my Leona is in any way Evil, and that she just wants to murder everyone not some worshiping, I will stab them.

G4LLOWSC4L1BR4TR1 votes

Honestly I'm hesitant to put Syndra evil. She's definitely pretty childish, but the only times in the lore she's really attacked anyone were when they tried to hurt her first, specifically her teacher limiting and then threatening to entirely take away her magical strength. She's definitely immature, but I can't recall any situation where she's actually gone out of her way to attack people. Mostly she just wants to be left alone.

GreenLore2 votes

Well its not like syndra has such an extensive lore anyway. It pretty much tells us how she became the person she is now,but doesn't go into the specifics of what kind of person she is.

Though given her VO and the fact that she wants to overthrow the government because she considers them inferior does seem pretty evil.

G4LLOWSC4L1BR4TR1 votes

I suspect that desire comes more from a place of wanting revenge than being outright evil though. In her eyes they locked her up because she was stronger than them and they were afraid of her, so she likely (correctly) thinks that they won't leave her alone so long as they're around to continue trying to imprison her. She probably looks down on other "inferior" people, but she's never really gone out of her way to hurt them except as a "hurt someone so bad they can't hurt you back" means of protection in the case of her old teacher/the elders.

AntiSkillshot1 votes

{quoted}

I suspect that desire comes more from a place of wanting revenge than being outright evil though. In her eyes they locked her up because she was stronger than them and they were afraid of her, so she likely (correctly) thinks that they won't leave her alone so long as they're around to continue trying to imprison her. She probably looks down on other "inferior" people, but she's never really gone out of her way to hurt them except as a "hurt someone so bad they can't hurt you back" means of protection in the case of her old teacher/the elders.

You do realize she out right killed her teacher after he told her he was restraining her full power, right...? The teacher only threatened to completely restrain her power after she became enraged after being told her full power was being dampened. She's nothing more than power hungry.

G4LLOWSC4L1BR4TR1 votes

I do. Like I said before, she's extremely childish. If you gave a child a hand grenade and then told them you were going to murder their parents, don't you think someone might get hurt? Alternately, and perhaps more accurately, picture a lion backed into a corner. It's going to fight tooth and nail to protect itself with no regard for who else gets hurt. This is a similar situation.

The important thing, in my eyes, is that before he provoked her she was content to just keep learning and growing, and people only got hurt after they threatened her. I'm not saying she's a good person, but the only things I can think of that you could consider evil have all been reactions to a perceived threat. He was going to take away her magic, so she hurt him in such a manner that he was no longer able to threaten her.

AntiSkillshot1 votes

{quoted}

I do. Like I said before, she's extremely childish. If you gave a child a hand grenade and then told them you were going to murder their parents, don't you think someone might get hurt? Alternately, and perhaps more accurately, picture a lion backed into a corner. It's going to fight tooth and nail to protect itself with no regard for who else gets hurt. This is a similar situation.

The important thing, in my eyes, is that before he provoked her she was content to just keep learning and growing, and people only got hurt after they threatened her. I'm not saying she's a good person, but the only things I can think of that you could consider evil have all been reactions to a perceived threat. He was going to take away her magic, so she hurt him in such a manner that he was no longer able to threaten her.

There's a difference between the desire of power and the need of survival. The child and lion examples are a need of survival. These are natural. A desire of power isn't natural. Need of survival is a common True Neutral trait. Desire of power is a common Evil trait. Though, it's almost never seen in Chaotic Evil. Brand and Jinx are the only "pure" Chaotic Evil characters in League that I can think of. They seek destruction for the sake of destruction.

Also, he didn't provoke Syndra. She was get annoyed that her power was seemingly not increasing in magnitude. She asked her teacher why. He told her he was dampening her power so she could learn control and restraint. She became angry because she was being denied her full power.

G4LLOWSC4L1BR4TR1 votes

She is essentially an oversized child. Her power is a part of her, and she feels entitled to it. She wasn't asking for more power, only to be allowed what she had. She was (in her eyes, which is what I at least feel is important to defining her alignment) provoked. He threatened to limit or take away her power when she had done nothing wrong with it. She, much like any other child whose toys are being taken away, lashed out in anger.

Whether you consider it reasonable to call it provocation, she most certainly would, which is a clear demonstration that her act of violence was not for the sake of hurting others, but to protect herself from having something she held as extremely valuable from being taken away from her.

Secondly, a desire for power is perfectly natural. People want money because money represents the power to purchase what they want. DBSM relationships exist because at least some people love the feeling of having power.

Thirdly, what is natural and what is good are not necessarily correlated, so even if it wasn't natural, that doesn't make it evil. It's not particularly natural to risk your life for a complete stranger, but we hold those who do as being the pinnacle of good largely because it's so unnatural.

Whether the action itself of killing her teacher is objectively right or wrong is irrelevant to whether or not she was acting in the D&D definition of evil. Motive is important in that consideration, as evidenced by lawful good paladins killing evildoers. Sure, they're killing someone, but it's for a good purpose. Syndra's purpose may not be explicitly good, but protecting herself from what she considers a threat is VASTLY different from killing someone for the sake of killing them or just to feel powerful.

AntiSkillshot1 votes

{quoted}

She is essentially an oversized child. Her power is a part of her, and she feels entitled to it. She wasn't asking for more power, only to be allowed what she had. She was (in her eyes, which is what I at least feel is important to defining her alignment) provoked. He threatened to limit or take away her power when she had done nothing wrong with it. She, much like any other child whose toys are being taken away, lashed out in anger.

Whether you consider it reasonable to call it provocation, she most certainly would, which is a clear demonstration that her act of violence was not for the sake of hurting others, but to protect herself from having something she held as extremely valuable from being taken away from her.

Secondly, a desire for power is perfectly natural. People want money because money represents the power to purchase what they want. DBSM relationships exist because at least some people love the feeling of having power.

Thirdly, what is natural and what is good are not necessarily correlated, so even if it wasn't natural, that doesn't make it evil. It's not particularly natural to risk your life for a complete stranger, but we hold those who do as being the pinnacle of good largely because it's so unnatural.

Whether the action itself of killing her teacher is objectively right or wrong is irrelevant to whether or not she was acting in the D&D definition of evil. Motive is important in that consideration, as evidenced by lawful good paladins killing evildoers. Sure, they're killing someone, but it's for a good purpose. Syndra's purpose may not be explicitly good, but protecting herself from what she considers a threat is VASTLY different from killing someone for the sake of killing them or just to feel powerful.

A desire for power isn't explicitly found in nature. For the rest of the stuff, GreenLore's got that covered.

G4LLOWSC4L1BR4TR1 votes

Isn't it? Plenty of animals fight to be the alpha of the pack, and often die for it. Isn't that an example of desire for power? And I would argue that humans are a part of nature, so it's not really fair to dismiss them entirely, especially a more basic instinct like BDSM stuff. And still, as I said, unnatural != bad. Eyeglasses are unnatural, should we do away with them? How about synthesized medicines? Cars? Computers? Video games?

GreenLore2 votes

{quoted}

The important thing, in my eyes, is that before he provoked her she was content to just keep learning and growing, and people only got hurt after they threatened her. I'm not saying she's a good person, but the only things I can think of that you could consider evil have all been reactions to a perceived threat. He was going to take away her magic, so she hurt him in such a manner that he was no longer able to threaten her.

This is flat out not true,Syndra wasn't content with learning and growing the way her master teached her. When she learned that her master dampened her powers,she accused him of betraying her and threw a tantrum and that was the reason why the master threatened to take away her powers in the first place. He didn't provoke her,she was already furious about the fact that her master wanted her to learn to control her powers slow and safe instead of fast and dangerous.

To use your metaphor: It is more like the child with the hand grenade found out that she wasn't training with the big hand grenades and when the master threatened to take away her hand grenade,if she wouldn't calm down,was then murdered by her. Syndra didn't show any kind of remorse about this and is now happy that she can use all the hand grenades she ever wanted to use.

G4LLOWSC4L1BR4TR1 votes

She wasn't furious that he wanted to control her power slowly and safely, she was furious that he forced her to, against her will, and without her knowledge. All she wanted to do was to be allowed to grow, and before she learned he was limiting her power, she did grow, apparently without any serious issue. The issue wasn't that she didn't want to grow safely, it was that he was forcing her to act the way he wanted her to, and she didn't want to be controlled. Sound like a typical rebellious teen to you? Sure, she's got more potential to hurt people than a typical teen, but the idea is the same.

Regardless of this one incident, if she was truly evil she would continue to go on a rampage of destruction, but no hint of that has ever been provided. She could easily fly her temple over some insignificant village and destroy them, but she hasn't. At worst, she made one morally grey decision in a tense moment. There's no record of continued evil to suggest that, on the whole, she's an evil person.

AntiSkillshot1 votes

{quoted}

She wasn't furious that he wanted to control her power slowly and safely, she was furious that he forced her to, against her will, and without her knowledge. All she wanted to do was to be allowed to grow, and before she learned he was limiting her power, she did grow, apparently without any serious issue. The issue wasn't that she didn't want to grow safely, it was that he was forcing her to act the way he wanted her to, and she didn't want to be controlled. Sound like a typical rebellious teen to you? Sure, she's got more potential to hurt people than a typical teen, but the idea is the same.

Regardless of this one incident, if she was truly evil she would continue to go on a rampage of destruction, but no hint of that has ever been provided. She could easily fly her temple over some insignificant village and destroy them, but she hasn't. At worst, she made one morally grey decision in a tense moment. There's no record of continued evil to suggest that, on the whole, she's an evil person.

You're right that there's no record of continued evil from Sydran. But that's not our fault or anything of that nature. The lore team hasn't touched her since her release. As such, as far as I'm concerned, she's destroyed a innumerable amount of villages.

G4LLOWSC4L1BR4TR1 votes

You have nothing to extrapolate that off of. At the very least I would expect a sentence or two mentioning something like that at the end of her lore.

AntiSkillshot1 votes

{quoted}

You have nothing to extrapolate that off of. At the very least I would expect a sentence or two mentioning something like that at the end of her lore.

And that's where we must agree to disagree. Just because she did one evil action, but never mentions such actions again, you believe she's stopped doing evil. However, from my point of view, just because she did one evil action, she'll keep on doing evil. Forgive me for putting this into this comment... "Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy."

G4LLOWSC4L1BR4TR1 votes

But there was a reason she did the thing. And it's still not even been established that that one action was evil to begin with. Unless the reason she did that "evil" thing recurs, I see no reason she'd do it again.

If the thing we were talking about was without reason and truly evil, like murdering a hundred innocent children for her own entertainment, I'd agree with you. However, she only killed him because she felt threatened by him, and it's probably safe to say she doesn't feel threatened by all those pitiful villagers farming harmlessly below her.

GreenLore1 votes

{quoted}

She wasn't furious that he wanted to control her power slowly and safely, she was furious that he forced her to, against her will, and without her knowledge. All she wanted to do was to be allowed to grow, and before she learned he was limiting her power, she did grow, apparently without any serious issue. The issue wasn't that she didn't want to grow safely, it was that he was forcing her to act the way he wanted her to, and she didn't want to be controlled. Sound like a typical rebellious teen to you? Sure, she's got more potential to hurt people than a typical teen, but the idea is the same.

It still doesn't excuse her killing the elder. Yes he threatened to take away her power,but it wasn't like he was already about to do it. He told syndra to calm down and allow him to teach her to control her power,thats not an unreasonable demand and something that syndra could have easily done.

And well it is said that before she was taken to the temple her "reckless use" of her magic terrified the elders of her village implying that the way syndra was using it would likely end up with a catastrophe.

And it doesn't change the fact that Syndra appearantly has no remorse about what she has done. She killed the elder,then felt how her limits were broken and thought it was awesome.

Just because her behavior was similar to that of a rebellious teenager doesn't excuse it.

Regardless of this one incident, if she was truly evil she would continue to go on a rampage of destruction, but no hint of that has ever been provided. She could easily fly her temple over some insignificant village and destroy them, but she hasn't. At worst, she made one morally grey decision in a tense moment. There's no record of continued evil to suggest that, on the whole, she's an evil person.

Being evil doesn't mean that she stays up in the morning and terrorizes others for fun,you seem to be under the impression that only a saturday cartoon-villain could be considered evil.

You say there are no records of her doing something evil. Well then I ask you if there are any records of her doing something good?Or neutral? No there aren't any records about how she acts after her lore at all. Thus we only have her lore and her behavior in that simply isn't excuseable.

G4LLOWSC4L1BR4TR1 votes

Her reckless use of her magic was reckless, yes, but not evil. That's why she was taken to learn, not to be executed or have her power revoked. His threat doesn't justify her killing him to me or you, but she would likely have been terrified of even the prospect and lashed out in fear rather than with malice. He showed no possibility of letting her do as she wanted with her own power, and given that she apparently had no active desire to hurt or control other people with it, fighting to keep her freedom would be a very CN sort of thing rather than CE.

"A chaotic neutral character follows his whims. He is an individualist first and last. He values his own liberty but doesn't strive to protect others' freedom. He avoids authority, resents restrictions, and challenges traditions" http://easydamus.com/chaoticneutral.html

She feels no remorse because, as I've said before, she feels it was justified. Her thought process likely looks something like: "I wasn't hurting anyone, he threatened to take away my magic/freedom, I protected myself in killing him". We have no record of her doing anything after that, yes, but given that all she was doing before the incident was practicing her magic, I think it's reasonable to assume that her actions would change particularly drastically after the fact. She's probably violently reclusive about it, but there is no indicator that she's actually done or has any desire to hurt people she thinks are beneath her, and I'd expect there to be one if she was going to actually do that.

GreenLore1 votes

Just because she justifies her actions to herself doesn't make them not evil.

Like I said even good concepts can be taken to evil extremes. The killing of her master was justified to herself,but it wouldn't be justified by regular morals. Anakin skywalker killed the padawans to save his girlfriend,does that justify him murdering all these children?Maybe to himself,but not by the standards of our society.

In the end we'll have to wait and see how riot handles her character in the future. I mean Diana went from "the sun shall fall" to "sun and moon can coexist",so riot could take her into a more morally grey direction or go full out evil with her.

G4LLOWSC4L1BR4TR1 votes

The standards of society would dictate lawful or chaotic, but we've already established (I assume) that she's decidedly a chaotic character. All the evidence we really have is one killing that wasn't premeditated and was aggravated. Whether or not that's evil or neutral is a matter of personal interpretation. The D&D system allows for violence even within good alignments, for example a CG Vigilante could most definitely be violent, as in Vayne's case. In cases where there's no clear moral decision, I would look at the character's intent as a whole, and in this case her violence was motivated by a desire to protect herself, which I would not consider an evil thing.

Whether or not she needed to protect herself is irrelevant, she acted because she thought she was in danger, and thus lacked malicious intent. I can see your argument, but without clear malicious intent I can't honestly label her as evil for a single aggravated incident.

Trolosaurus1 votes

I leave for classes, come back, and it seems this thread has exploded Please continue the conversations, I love reading all of these thoughts.

Lordk0z1 votes

I'd say Darius is Lawful Neutral, or by Noxian Definitions, Lawful Good.

Darius does not seek power for his own sake or act selfishly, but rather abides almost entirely by Noxian Morality and Honor. He seeks to better his city-state and free it from the corrupt and decadent nobility. It's pretty clear that he isn't evil.

Although, IMO, making Swain, a manipulator and co-conspirator of the black rose, the Grand General, is a stupid-ass move. Swain's tactical know-how, in practice, is limited, he resorts to using trickery to let Leblanc help him gang up on the Keiran, a stronger and more fitting leader.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Noxian intrigue would end with Darius ahem, reevaluating Swain's strength.

The D&D system defines "Good vs Evil" as Selfless vs Selfish, which really, is a fairly non-biased way to evaluate good vs evil.

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