Fun Fact: We got another darkin before we got...

ModCaptainMårvelous··28 votes·1,720 views

Another Troll and another ursine.

Volibear and Trundle have been out for ages and it feels pretty disheartening that they're the only representatives. I'm not counting the "LAST OF MY KIND" guys because those are generally not going to get another champion ala Skarner.

But trolls are apparently widespread enough for tribes. Ursine exist in the Freljord. Why are we not getting more of these characters?

65 Comments

KoKoboto18 votes

I'm fine with this. Reason being they're the best out of their peoples. Darkin's on the other hand we know are a group so getting more of them feels better. Each Darkin is really important. Each Ursin or Troll is important as well but not as important as Volibear and Trundle.

Big Lincoln2 votes

trundle isn't even the strongest, he just happened to find a weapon that made him leader

KoKoboto2 votes

"Troll with the biggest club gets to be king. That's the rule!"

Big Lincoln2 votes

and there are more than just Freljord trolls, I'm pretty sure, since there are multiple tribes.

if it's not someone who directly opposes Trundle's rule then I'd like to see a troll with a different upbringing entirely

KoKoboto2 votes

Yep that'd be cool.

Variks the Loyal3 votes

I find it hard to believe that there wouldn't be another Troll or another Ursine that couldn't be as important.

Look at the races in other media. Warcraft for example. Orcs would be a lot more boring if Thrall were the only important one.

There could easily be a Troll mystic that lives in an Ionian tribe. They could even expand the Ursine to also have different tribes outside of the Freljord.

Ralanr1 votes

Maybe not another frost troll, but other trolls exist right? You wouldn't call them frost trolls otherwise.

Variks the Loyal2 votes

I used to think Jax was an Ionian Troll. Would be pretty neat.

But yeah, Trolls having regional variety and adaptability has kinda become something of a media staple (See regional variants of Trolls in WoW and Elder Scrolls). Having Wild Trolls from Kumungu, Steppe Trolls from Ionia, etc would be really cool.

ModCaptainMårvelous8 votes

By that extent, why have any other human than Jarvan IV and Swain? They're the most important, after all.

I'm not asking for a flood of these types of champions but I find it hard to believe we don't even have a B-tier champion lore-wise that can compare to them. Or hell, how about a female troll/ursine so we can see what they look like.

KoKoboto1 votes

Demacia is a region and has different stuff in it, all the Demacia characters we got are important in fleshing out the region. Freljord as a region has a bunch of different stuff and all the characters from it flesh out the region more. Adding another Ursine or Troll would too define the region but would not do so in such a huge extent unless the new character was as major as Volibear or Trundle. It would only define a small part of the whole region that is Freljord.

Every Darkin on the other hand is a major part of Runeterra's story. Because Darkin is just Darkin every Darkin has a lot more weight behind it.

Variks the Loyal5 votes

Not every character has to be major to be a champion. Some of them are just out of the ordinary. Yasuo, for example, just a wandering samurai who doesn't really have anything to do with the fate of Ionia or any of it's inner cities, and just has his own story with his own inner demons and regrets. Tristana is just a member of her gunner brigade. Annie is just a kit who likes fire.

They don't need to be of major importance to be relevant. Like you said, the extra characters are important for fleshing out their regions and races and tribes. By this logic, for Demacia we'd have Garen, Jarvan, and Galio, while the smaller, more personal stories like Vayne and Quinn and Xin Zhao would just fall by the wayside.

KoKoboto2 votes

Xin Zhao, Tristana and Annie need lore updates. I've done some thinking about Annie however and she has potential to better show the details of Grey Order (if it exsists still) or at least the higher class of Noxus, how she might be treated as a pawn because she is only a child or how she might be treated with immense respect (fear) because people don't wanna get burned by her.

Vayne shows us dark magicks and is a direct source for learning about dark magicks. Also her story tells us how magicks might have already invaded the walls of Demacia and how the walls aren't as good as Demacian's think (we also know this from Lux being able to cast magicks right next to Galio and within Demacia's walls).

Quinn has direct relevence to an event called The Day of Lost Light and shows us the lands of Demacia outside of the main state walls. She has also showed us how the Buvelle's have a large hand in Demacian affairs (although it was the wrong place to show it).

Yasuo shows us the culture behind Ionia and how Ionia does there stuff. He also became an important figure for Taliyah who takes his teachings to her own goals. Honestly ever character in the game is important and major, Riot has done a great job at making it so.

Yeah not every character has to be major. I would call Draven a character that is not too core to the story of Noxus but could be if he ever changed (highly unlikely). So yeah. Like I said, I'm not against adding characters that aren't important to the grand story going on in every region. You wanna make an Ursine who just likes to sleep in all day? Go for it. Or perhaps a champion whose ultimate goal is to get the perfect pint. Nevertheless I think getting each Darkin is more important than getting an Ursine or Troll and am fine with waiting for Ursines and Trolls for the reasons I said earlier.

Jerry SeinfeId2 votes

Tristana isn't just a soldier, she's the best yordle gunner around. Annie is a kid that tamed one of the most dangerous creatures in her area at the age of 2, and the child of the two strongest mages there.

And thus we have no other Yordle gunners, no other mages from annie's settlement.

Adding another Ursine is possible but Voli is the tribeleader because he's the strongest. This would mean the new one would have to be an outcast or atleast seperate from the tribe.

The thing is that Humans, Yordle's and vastiyah are more widespread races, The Voidborn that we see are only the strongest (voidlings zzrot critters excluded) that reside there.

Those who don't seem godlike strong or politically important often do have something going on that makes them important. ex. Teemo = best yordle scout Jinx = Thrashed piltover EKKO = wonderchild Yasuo = bringer of cancer Vayne = a hunter of evil things? i mean she's probably well known n stuff Ezreal = (imo the most average dude in this game) is an explorer, who has a very strong artifact Twitch = the only mutated rat in Zaun (and runeterra i guess) Draven = a celebrity etc.

So while it certainly is possible to add another troll/ursine they would feel less impressive because being from that race is an important part of their design, but already done. I'm sure that when voli came out people were like "hell yeah, i can play as a bear that's so rad." now they'd be like "oh it's like voli but does different things"

Stalinium2 votes

I've always like to think Talon is the most average dude in the game. He doesn't have some magical weapon that shoots magic and magically shoot across maps. He's just a dude who had to survive, and did so by thieving, running, and occasionally killing. And here you have him, a dude that's really, really, really fucking good at using knives, parkour, and deception competing among the most powerful beings in Runeterra

Jerry SeinfeId1 votes

I'm not really talking about magic here.

Thing is ezreal is just a kid that didn't like school but loved exploring things so he just did that and became good at it. alot of people will be able to kinda relate to that. (with his new lore he became more indiana jones than before but the base description is still there)

Meanwhile Talon (while yes a normal human that doesn't use magic) was a street orphan, that had to steal, kill and scavenge to survive. He had to become Good or die. Infact he became so good Katarina's dad picked him from the streets.

And let's not forget that the LEague itself is no longer lore. Talon does not actually compete with a Galaxy eating dragon, a walking mountain or a big pupper with a staff and magic. The first two probably wouldn't even be bothered by him.

Ralanr1 votes

Idk, I think the most normal person in this game is Graves. Why?

-No magical ability. -No really special abilities beyond being good with his gun.

Even other marksmen have other things about them that help them stand out. Graves just seems like the guy who could easily fit in our world.

Jerry SeinfeId1 votes

But again he grew up in bilgewater and lived a life filled with crime. He's also (with tf) the only one to break into the clockwork vault so i guess he has some skills, his gun is hextech too so that's magical.

SolarisCorvus1 votes

hey if you could answer a question. whats up with your name? if not then its cool.

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

I'm an archivist, which means I help moderate and deliver feedback to Riot.

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

I'm not asking for a flood of these types of champions but I find it hard to believe we don't even have a B-tier champion lore-wise that can compare to them. Or hell, how about a female troll/ursine so we can see what they look like.

They'd have hourglass bodies with big old titties and the same faces. It's Riot.

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

2011 Riot, I'd believe you. 2017 Riot? Illaoi Jinx Kalista Taliyah and maybe Xayah. They've gone really far with how champions look.

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

A little bit of spice doesn't make a good meal. Sure, Riot has come out with some decent character designs. But for the majority it's still generic marketable trash with no real interesting design philosophy. Xayah is a carbon copy of Ahri minus the tails and talons. Don't get me wrong either, it's not JUST the females, but it's mostly the females.

As much as people want to say "RIOT HAS MOVED ON" Sorry but no. Skins team is making the same stuff they've been making for years. I find it hilarious that people want ANOTHER Sexy female champ. We have plenty. Same with the males. Give me another Rek'sai or Ivern ffs.

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

Personally I don't really see it. Then again, females come out at a rate of about 1/3rd the speed of male champions so I guess if you didn't like it, it'd sit on your tongue like a bad flavor.

And I don't really count skins because those are pretty much always reimagining or fan service. Sometimes the skin surpasses the base one (Hello Captain MF) but overall I don't exactly see the argument that Riot hasn't moved on if they're sticking most of their fan service behind the paywall for people who can't play someone without seeing a smorgasbord of cleavage.

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

Fair enough if you dont' see it. I'm a design student so I can be incredibly elitist about it. Not saying I'm more knowledgeable, just more uppity about the topic.

I count skins because they can very often do an amazing job to discredit a character. Riot has expressed that they don't like Caitlyn's base design because it's nothing close to what a police sheriff should represent herself as. (Source being "Ask Riot: The Sexy Factor"). This shows that they're wanting to create characters and champions that resonate strongly with themes or ideals relevant to their characters. Yet they then go on to create skins that make jokes of those characters inner-workings. It's incredibly disrespectful.

A what point being a female demon meant always showing of your tits and flesh became a staple of the skins team I'll never know. I just hope when Akali gets her VGU They don't change Blood Moon Akali too look something like Blood Moon Elise. It'd just be fucking gross, as a character who is a Ninja AND a priestess (In the blood moon universe accrding to kindle), AND towards someone who loves that skin as it is.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate fan-service. In fact I fucking love it. Throw a half naked dude or chick at me anytime. Even made a boards post recently thanking Riot for the recent influx of sexier focused skins. But what I do hate is Riot blatantly sacrificing sense for a boob window for some horny teen somewhere. Looking at you Soulstealer Vayne. We could have cool and interesting designs, but Riot often sacrifices it for whatever crap is marketable.

In the end that's just my opinion tho :)

Jerry SeinfeId1 votes

I understand what you mean but keep in mind people need to make their character attractive to people.

Often the easiest way is the ahri way and just make her a good looking girl who happens to "suck out the souls" of people. Jayce would be the best example for males in this case

The other option is the Urgot/Sion method of making something that while not sexually attractive, is still looking cool.

What i'm trying to say is that it's not weird that people design their characters to be good looking because people won't like something they think is just plain ugly.

As for Female demons showing skin. I mean they're demons, Lust is one of the 7 Sins. Seems obvious that a female demon would use her figure. So why not for the males? do we not do that too? how often do you see the buff shirtless demon (incase they are humanoid let's skip diablo for a sec)?

Also Soulstealer vayne is your example? it barely shows skin, just has some cleavage that isn't in the way of the design at all (i don't study that shit so tell me why if i'm wrong) also it's like 1 of the 3 skins she has i can actually look at.

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

The main difference between "good looking characters" is that there is more then one good looking character type. But Riot doesn't understand that. About 90% of their females follow the same shitty generic face and body shapes. It's lazy and bad design. There's no true variety. People say Xayah looks like Ahri not because of some shitty ideal, but because she DOES look like Ahri.

Jayce is a pretty terrible example, and so far in league there is not one male who follows the same shitty characterization as the females. We have 5 Seductress females, Ahri, MF, Evelynn, Cassiopeia and Elise. And 0 males. Jayce is a cocky douche, but his sexuality has nothing to do with his character. The closest we've got is maybe Rakan.

Don't mean to drive the example into the ground but have a look at Overwatch, Plenty of varying body-shapes, ethnicities, ages and no one bats an eye. Everytime Riot comes out with a champ there's a flair up.

As for females showing skin really makes no sense considering demons represent their own Sin, not make others feel their sin towards them. Greed Demons are greedy, Gluttony Demons are Gluttonous. So why are Lust Demons not Lustful, But instead making themselves sexual objects. Really makes no sense. As for men I've said plenty of times that the male characters in League are not free of this design stigma, but it's nowhere near as bad as it is with the females.

Soulstealer Vayne is my example because it makes no sense. She is fully armored and clothed, but has a poignant and random af boob window. She even has most of her neck covered for god sake. Makes literally no sense at all for it too be there. Just cover em up and call the skin armored. Skin is fighting with itself for the sake of fan-service. Either go the full length ala Soulstealer Vlad or just finish the job and have the skin make sense.

Jerry SeinfeId1 votes

The main difference between "good looking characters" is that there is more then one good looking character type. But Riot doesn't understand that. About 90% of their females follow the same shitty generic face and body shapes. It's lazy and bad design. There's no true variety. People say Xayah looks like Ahri not because of some shitty ideal, but because she DOES look like Ahri.

So i just spend 5 minutes looking at both their faces in their splashart. I can see some clear differences. I can also find similarities which is understandable as they both are vastayah. But their clothing style is completely different. as for body type, Ahri is a tad more stacked and there is alot more focus on her figure (lore makes this obvious)

Jayce is a pretty terrible example, and so far in league there is not one male who follows the same shitty characterization as the females. We have 5 Seductress females, Ahri, MF, Evelynn, Cassiopeia and Elise. And 0 males. Jayce is a cocky douche, but his sexuality has nothing to do with his character. The closest we've got is maybe Rakan.

I used jayce cuz he's mister pretty, Taric would have worked just as well. He is probably the better example even.

A seductress is simply more popular than a seducer(? i don't even know the male version). I'd add Nidalee to that one too cuz "it's mating season boys". But look at taric isn't he charming? Or even braum.

Don't mean to drive the example into the ground but have a look at Overwatch, Plenty of varying body-shapes, ethnicities, ages and no one bats an eye. Everytime Riot comes out with a champ there's a flair up.

are they tho? As for body type i'd say there's less variety. They all have nice but reasonable bodies. The only ones that stands out are Zarya being overwatch's illaoi, and Mei but then there's chinese NY mei and while league does not offer this body type they do offer things like sejuani/shyvana who aren't full musclewoman but sure as hell are fit. I'd be willing to compare D.VA and jinx as when looking at her model she seems to be the closest to jinx (mainly her skins tho, might be because of the thightsuit in classic).

yes ethnicities are varied (all human(oid) but that's understandable considering the game) but so are league's only the etnicity isn't limited to skin color and slightly different features.

League has plenty of age differences i will admit none of the females look as old as ana (but even she got a young skin) but none of overwatch's characters is as young as annie.

Thing is as overwatch adds more characters it'll become obvious that they have similarities as well. OW is 1 year old and released 3 new characters. League is at 136 + 1 on pbe atm. Hell i can probably link most characters to a league equivalent (twitch = sombra btw can't convince me otherwise they have too many similarities)

As for females showing skin really makes no sense considering demons represent their own Sin, not make others feel their sin towards them. Greed Demons are greedy, Gluttony Demons are Gluttonous. So why are Lust Demons not Lustful, But instead making themselves sexual objects. Really makes no sense.

Demon's often have alot of freedom in their design/definition. How you describe them certainly makes sense and resembles Dragon Age's way. But often demons aren't linked to one specific sin. And even then, Less clothing has been considered more sinfull than modest clothing for quite some time. As for lust demons themselves, Succubi are probably the most known example and for them it's obvious why. But other than that, they are supposed to make people stray from their path and cave in to lust, showing off your body helps in that process.

Soulstealer Vayne is my example because it makes no sense. She is fully armored and clothed, but has a poignant and random af boob window. She even has most of her neck covered for god sake. Makes literally no sense at all for it too be there. Just cover em up and call the skin armored. Skin is fighting with itself for the sake of fan-service. Either go the full length ala Soulstealer Vlad or just finish the job and have the skin make sense.

That cleavage is not necessary i'll agree, it doesn't affect the skin tho imo. Neck being covered doesn't take away cleavage it happens alot.

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

That's fine! I don't expect to change your mind because I can't attest to have the experiences you do with design. I'm more of a story person and to me, that background is what matters most of all.

GreenLore1 votes

The reason for that is that pretty much every champ existsts to cover at least one fantasy that no one else covers. Jarvan is prince and more or less a final fantasy dragoon warrior.And he is the only one who fills these fantasies.

Meanwhile Swain is a warlock and a master tactician(though the tactician thing is currently more of an informed ability) and that makes him unique.

Voli however is basically "the talking bear" of the game,so another Ursine would just end up filling the same fantasy.

Kloqdq2 votes

That was basically the older riot. Now I think they really want to work at fleshing out certain characters and champions. Ursine are largely unexplored and although yes, he is a talking bear, that doesn't mean we shouldn't get another Ursine that shows more about that race.

GreenLore1 votes

Even today they still try to give everyone something unique. Just look at kayn for example.

Yes Kayn is a member of the order of the shadow,yet he has almost no abilities that really utilize shadows(his E only has some shadow flavor and his Q has a shadow in his assassin form). And the reason for giving Kayn so few shadow abilities is obviously because they want Zed to be the only champ who is based around using living shadows.

Similar Xayah and Rakan are both from the same tribe of Vastaya. However Rakan is unique because he is leagues only dandy and Xayah fills the character type of the rebel and harpy.

Kloqdq1 votes

That doesn't mean we can't have another talking bear champion that is ursine? Voli's design is so basic but that kind of race could have more characters. It was mentioned prior but a shaman type caster could really fit that race and help towards fleshing it out. Really races in this game may have similar traits (Kayn and Rhaast really show this with Rhaast showing that healing and tooth and nail style combat matching aatrox. As well as Kayn and Zed having shadows to different extents.) but that doesn't mean we can't have more of them to really define them.

GreenLore1 votes

The thing is that Kayn and Rhaast manage to expand on these things without doing the stuff that makes Zed and Aatrox unique. zed is basically the guy who uses shadow powers. Thats what makes him unique in the roster.

And Kayn doesn't take that away,as Kayn has barely any shadow powers in his kit. Thus Zed is still the only shadow specialist in the game.

Similarly Rhaast manages to distance himself from Aatrox,because Rhaast hasn't overtaken Kayn yet. This means that Rhaast fills the idea of the demon who posesses others.Which is something that Aatrox doesn't do. Meanwhile Aatrox feels like a demon commander. They both fill demonic archetypes,but they fill quite different ones.

Now I understand where you are coming from. I mean if demon commander and demon posessor are different archetypes,then why can't ursine warrior and ursine mage be different ones as well? And the answer is that these types of demons are deeply rooted in our culture and are well known demonic archetypes,wheras bear warrior and bear mage are are not.

The only way I could see us getting a second ursine would be if Volibear got something else to make him outstanding. For example if Voli had lava powers(this is just an example,not saying that this would be a good idea). Then Voli would stand out as the only lava champ in the game(not counting skins) and they could easily make another Ursine as long as said Ursine fills some other fantasy that is unique to him.

Kloqdq1 votes

Really you basically strengthen what I was saying. There is key elements, themes that define a character, races, etc. Currently the Ursine don't really have that because it was old Riot and the grand scale of the world wasn't taken into consideration when creating them.

I define Ursine as Talking Bears with Lightning. That has a LOT of possibilities that could be explored and it's sort of the whole point of this. What fantasy elements they choice to explore with that is frankly up to them. However, I don't think Voli is the last we've seen or heard of the Ursine.

GreenLore1 votes

I don't think that we'll ever get to an agreement here. My point is that every champion has either a unique "class" or a unique "race"(including transformed champs like the ascended).

For example Zed is the only shadowmaster in the game and will always remain the only one. Skarner on the other hand is the only scorpion champ/the only crystal monster and will always remain the only one.

And since Volibear has no "class" that makes him stand out he has only his race to make him stand out. And as long as that is the case,I belive that we won't see another ursine,because then Volibear would have neither a unique class or race.

Kloqdq1 votes

I mean I doubt he'll stay the same and as for class, Guardian is the first thing that comes to mind. It's lacking as is but if they were to create a new ursine they would most likely change Voli, just like they are doing with Aatrox.

It just comes down to them having to create a better understanding of that race and what volibear is. Frankly, his really bland at the moment because of his old lore tie-ins. This is a problem for the moment but it can be fixed and will most likely be fixed in the future as they explore that region again. Right now though they are circle jerking up Ionia so it may be a while before we revisit that region.

Variks the Loyal9 votes

Or another Minotaur Alistar

I would love to see more of these fantasy races, especially since a lot of champions were revealed as Vastayan.

xScarfy6 votes

What makes it difficult to create another Ursine or Troll champion is to make him different enough from Voli and Trundle. What else can an Ursine or a troll do, that Voli or Trundle dont already can? Humans can have different weapons or powers, so do Yordles or Voidborns, but a Ursines main weapon would probably be his claws and fangs and Trolls are all about smashing things...

ModCaptainMårvelous5 votes

Well, spitballing ideas:

  • Troll witch doctor who was exiled from his/her tirbe for practicing magic.
  • Troll brawler who refutes the rule of trundle and lives in exile.
  • Ursine Shaman who commands an element other than the Storm.
  • Ursine ADC with a sling to make up for being weak/anemic.

But the main idea I hope you get from this is that the ball is in Riot's court. They can edit, tweak or add facets of these races easily. Splinter sects, abandoned groups, forgotten tribes, whatever have you. Trolls/Ursine/etc. are not documented enough to really warrant "They're all the same".

Nymzo5 votes

That's because we already have plenty of trolls and boosted animals in our game.

/s

Fasmodey4 votes

We don't have any watcher. Ursines and trolls can wait.

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

Gut feeling? You're probably never getting one. Watchers likely work best as spooky boogymen in the shadows rather than floating eldritch horrors of ice.

Devinatiol1 votes

I feel Liss is the closest to a watcher we are going to get, I feel like Watchers fall into the same category as Nagakboros and their power of form is only seen by beings whom they let use their godly power, like Illaoi does with the Kraken. Its odd that these gods must be in some vein stronger than a cosmic star dragon lol cause Targon seems to out smarted and over powered these cosmic creatures using the powers of their gods, whom of which Aurelion laughs out but obviously is helpless against.

Krabohod3 votes

There are pretty strong evidence that Jax is another troll. From Icathia.

Ebonmaw Dragon2 votes

Well... Alistar is not the last minotaur anymore according to a member of Riot (Bioluminescence if i remember correctly)

Milodic Mellodi2 votes

Fun fact: We got another darkin before the Yordles are even getting a hint of a lore update. And by that, I mean that there isn't any sign of it in the future.

Jerry SeinfeId2 votes

Because they simply are the BEST/STRONGEST/MOST IMPORTANT ursine/troll in the lore.

Getting another Ursine would be "oh look it's like voli but he fighst slightly different".

Another troll would depend on how much they want to make different region's tribes look different. If it's just the color of their skin people will be like " eh it's like trundle i guess"

Gear Kitty2 votes

Gameplay readability is likely the biggest factor....

Let's say some Rioter on the new champ team really gets some good ideas and thoughts on a ah... let's go with Ursine ADC. Unless the champion is specifically Voli's identical twin sibling, the new champ would HAVE to be undeniably different looking from him in every single way from even the slightest glance out of the corner of your eye. This is because even at that position, you have to be able to discern who the champion is you just saw. Such a champion would also eat into Voli's possible skins (and in turn would be barred from skins too close to Voli's). New champ is a black bear for their base skin?- Whelp, Voli will never have a black bear skin unless it's easily read as different.

One of the first comments I saw about this latest champ, Kayn, is that he looks like they stuck Darius' head on top of Tryndamere's body. Humans see patterns and familiar things before their brain tries to properly process what they're looking at. That's why we see simple face shapes in the back of chairs and objects in cloud formations.

We won't get other members of the general monster races unless they can REALLY make the new champ look truly different from the original. Bears will look like bears and scorpions will look like scorpions because if they didn't, well, then they wouldn't BE bears or scorpions.

FakeGravity1 votes

well how many champions are one of a kind? alistar skarner rammus there nothing like them around it seems, and riot already push alot of unidentified characters to be "vastayan blood" and now some small group is getting their darkin roots, also why every new character kinda hate yordlees? what they did? something dont fit

Wind2341 votes

I have no idea if someone else said something similar to this in this thread, so sorry if I'm beating a dead horse. But I think the main reason why we haven't seen any other trolls or Ursine characters is because they'd need a reason to be notably different from Trundle and Volibear. Trundle is the king of the trolls, the head honcho and (presumably) the strongest of them, too. If all trolls follow Trundle's lead, then where is the interesting story-telling? Now if they were to go with the idea of there being more than one tribe of trolls and Trundle's isn't the only one, THEN I think we have some potential.

As for Volibear, I think we run into a little more trouble, because the Ursine are part of the old lore. I'm not saying that they aren't a thing anymore, but we have no idea what the lore plans are for Volibear. I saw in another thread that Volibear, in lore, is supposedly strong enough to beat a Darkin on his own. That is no small feat, and that puts him quite high in the power list. I'm wondering if that's a hint that either A) The Ursine race is extremely powerful or B) Volibear is no longer part of a race, but instead some kind of nature spirit or elemental embodiment. Now if the Ursine ARe still a thing, then they still need to make said Ursine different from Volibear in a meaningful way, which they might be having problems with.

I don't know, I don't sit in at Riot board meetings. This is just my two cents on the issue. Now if they have new troll/Ursine champions in the wings that we just don't know about, that's great! If not, then maybe we'll see them down the road. Who knows? I do hope we revisit the Freljord soon, though. I don't think I remember the last next champ that got released from that area....

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