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Defending The New Varus

Caretaker Jack··10 votes·906 views

So, I am simply here to explain why the new Varus is so much better than the old one because we've already heard the people label this change a political agenda and those guys are the majority of the forums... But are the 104K + who enjoyed this supposed to be crying homophobia and have no real voice on the matter? That seems a little unfair doesn't it?

First off, Varus isn't even gay... His VESSELS are gay.

I don't want to sound like I'm getting all dramatic, but it's soo disrespectful to write this off as a political scandal and compare it to something like ghost busters or the new power puff girls. The new power puff didn't really add anything to the story and The new ghost busters wasn't bad because they changed the gender of our beloved characters, it was bad because these characters were not even them. The story was labeled ghost busters and had nothing to do with the real ghost busters... In that scenario it makes sense to call it something else.

So why does it not work for those pieces, but work perfectly fine here? I thought to answer to this would be obvious, but to be frank, Varus has far more depth as an apocalyptic darkin than some vague middle aged father trying to avenge his family. It's not to say that fathers don't make good characters, it's just that it doesn't work as well here... Like, the idea of Varus just giving himself over to a darkin, for vengeance, is downright AWFUL story telling because it doesn't stand out in this plot. ANYONE stricken by war can be vengeful over a loss. It's not as special if everyone else is going through the same thing... And it indirectly downplays the might of the Noxian army and what it takes to be a suitable vessel for a Darkin, but lets not go there. Frankly, I don't think an angry war daddy is going to put up much of a fight against a darkin compared to two powerful warriors bound to each other.

And then the story has very little to do with the fact that they're gay... Riot isn't hinting that you should treat gay people a certain way or advertising gay stereotypes. This is just a story that actually works with gay characters. We've all experienced political scandals so often that most of you don't even see that riot is actually trying to tell a legitimate story here. The unfairness that exists in the media is leading so many of you to judge this in the way social justice judges others... But this isn't what this story is at all. Open your eyes sheep-le .

We've gone from some vengeful daddy figure to a Darkin that is the full embodiment of vengeance itself. I would bet a hundred dollars that if it was Varus and his wife becoming the darkin vessel, hardly any of you would have nothing to complain about. Like, sure, riot could of made it to where it was Varus and his wife were consumed by the darkin, but two powerful male warriors just makes more sense (i'm expecting sexist remarks to made made here.)

And, again, **Varus is not gay because his vessels are. **

29 Comments

SgtGenColKled7 votes

No, we still care even if it would be Varus and his wife. The new lore resembles nothing of original Varus. The couple being same sex as nothing to do with the problem for the rational people that are arguing. And a tragic human going so far for revenge is infinitely more interesting than Angry Murder Darkin #3

Caretaker Jack1 votes

That's a fair reason... But it still doesn't make him stand out from anyone else during Ionian war.

SgtGenColKled2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Resurgent Bard,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=o3tZlgcI,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-12-01T21:14:53.046+0000)

That's a fair reason... But it still doesn't make him stand out from anyone else during Ionian war.

I think it does though. We see many characters affected by the war and they all have rather different outcomes. Yi becomes violent, but he learns to let go of his anger when he meets Wukong. Zed is called to action, starting the Order, which to him is the right way to take Ionia. Varus loses himself completely to his grief and rage, which no other character does in the war.

What made Varus different in the old lore from other Ionians is that the war never ended for him. They found ways to move on, he never did.

Caretaker Jack2 votes

I'm comparing Varus to just a typical soldier in the Ionian war. Most, if not all of them would have suffered loss experiencing both grief and rage. His character doesn't stand out from a typical joe... Beyond that I'm sure the survivors didn't just let go of their pain and go "well my kids dead, I guess i can just be happy now."

SgtGenColKled1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Resurgent Bard,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=o3tZlgcI,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-02T20:25:06.487+0000)

I'm comparing Varus to just a typical soldier in the Ionian war. Most, if not all of them would have suffered loss experiencing both grief and rage. His character doesn't stand out from a typical joe... Beyond that I'm sure the survivors didn't just let go of their pain and go "well my kids dead, I guess i can just be happy now."

True, other Ionian's have lost friends and family in the war, but for Old Varus two things stand out. The first is that he choose to defend the temple instead of his village. He had a choice to maybe prevent his family's death but he chose to protect the temple. Imagine seeing your dead family that you could of prevented.

Now also add in Pallas talking to him before all of this happened. Pallas was already in his head, wanting to please him and give him what he wanted, even if it didn't understand humans. That is why it takes Varus' losing his family to finally accept to join with it. The guilt of knowing he could of saved them with the promise of revenge and power that Pallas offered him.

Caretaker Jack1 votes

Well, Pallas is the location, that's not a character... If you're thinking he could be the Darkin, I already said that would create more plot holes (thus defeating the point of the update,) but I never explained how.

Like, lets not get the wrong idea. I'm talking about the plot and what he's doing for the lore overall... Both have sad stories and good characters, but one of them isn't complete. One of them isn't doing anything for the long term. Let's look at some of the plot holes and ideas geared towards making old Varus work.

** 1.)** ** _The noxian war is over, so he's still hunting them? _** How long should it take a Darkin to get revenge on a speciffic target? This, right here, downplays the power of a Darkin. They're supposed to be insanely powerful apocalyptic demons. One man hunting down the past Noxians makes perfect sense, but for a legendary demon it's counter productive. The goal of killing everything is one much more suitable for a devil.

**2.) We have to worry about how he is able to keep control of a Darkin... ** Kayn is chosen. He has masted every weapon and he's super disciplined via training under zed, so why cant we just copy and paste this onto Varus? Well... His whole motivation is vengeance. He's engaged and consumed by an emotion that empowers Darkin!! So tweaking this not only downplays his rage, it could also could downplay kayn's character too.

3.) Lets say we ditch the Darkin concept entirely and go back to just the corruption... Now we have no way of Varus interacting with the big picture. This is the whole reason he was outdated in the first place.

4.) So then lets leave it at the new lore, but replace the 2 gay guys with the father figure we know and love... That would mean the man inside has to die and Varus be the only one left standing because we already explained why vengeance cant hold back a Darkin and what it would do if we decided it did... So if it's just Varus, then he literally has no struggle. This means riot created a character for the long term in exchange for the short term and that means they should of just used old Varus. The 2 guys give Varus an actual struggle.

**Side Note: **

I kind of see it like comparing Bleach to Naruto... Bleach is a cool anime, but Naruto has a better story with better developed characters. Ichigo was never built for the long term. Fans still don't know what he wants to do after highschool or what he wants for himself. It's not say Bleach sucks, i'm only talking about the story here... And then you look at something like One Piece. Now, THAT'S how you build a character for a long running series.

SgtGenColKled1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Resurgent Bard,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=o3tZlgcI,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-05T02:19:39.214+0000)

Well, Pallas is the location, that's not a character... If you're thinking he could be the Darkin, I already said that would create more plot holes (thus defeating the point of the update,) but I never explained how.

Like, lets not get the wrong idea. I'm talking about the plot and what he's doing for the lore overall... Both have sad stories and good characters, but one of them isn't complete. One of them isn't doing anything for the long term. Let's look at some of the plot holes and ideas geared towards making old Varus work.

** 1.)** ** _The noxian war is over, so he's still hunting them? _** How long should it take a Darkin to get revenge on a speciffic target? This, right here, downplays the power of a Darkin. They're supposed to be insanely powerful apocalyptic demons. One man hunting down the past Noxians makes perfect sense, but for a legendary demon it's counter productive. The goal of killing everything is one much more suitable for a devil.

**2.) We have to worry about how he is able to keep control of a Darkin... ** Kayn is chosen. He has masted every weapon and he's super disciplined via training under zed, so why cant we just copy and paste this onto Varus? Well... His whole motivation is vengeance. He's engaged and consumed by an emotion that empowers Darkin!! So tweaking this not only downplays his rage, it could also could downplay kayn's character too.

3.) Lets say we ditch the Darkin concept entirely and go back to just the corruption... Now we have no way of Varus interacting with the big picture. This is the whole reason he was outdated in the first place.

4.) So then lets leave it at the new lore, but replace the 2 gay guys with the father figure we know and love... That would mean the man inside has to die and Varus be the only one left standing because we already explained why vengeance cant hold back a Darkin and what it would do if we decided it did... So if it's just Varus, then he literally has no struggle. This means riot created a character for the long term in exchange for the short term and that means they should of just used old Varus. The 2 guys give Varus an actual struggle.

**Side Note: **

I kind of see it like comparing Bleach to Naruto... Bleach is a cool anime, but Naruto has a better story with better developed characters. Ichigo was never built for the long term. Fans still don't know what he wants to do after highschool or what he wants for himself. It's not say Bleach sucks, i'm only talking about the story here... And then you look at something like One Piece. Now, THAT'S how you build a character for a long running series.

  1. Old Varus is still killing the Noxians because to him the war isn't over. Just because Ionia made peace and got their freedom didn't mean he did. Also remember that the South of Ionia was occupied for years by Noxian forces, giving him plenty of targets there. Darkin in their normal forms might be very powerful, but as weapons they are not. We know humans with strong enough will can beat them or at least hold off their total take over, as we see in Kayn. It was all but stated in the old lore that the only thing keeping Varus as himself was his pure willpower and drive for revenge.

  2. Kayn isn't "chosen", he is an exceptionally gifted warrior with a strong willpower and drive. He want's Zed recognition, he wants power, he wants to be unstoppable. Kayn is also pretty consumed by negative emotions (murderous, betrayal, destructive ambition, PRIDE AND ARROGANCE). I don't think saying he would downplay Kayn is good enough criticism, since Varus was made 4 year before Kayn was. And again Kayn shows us that Darkin can be beaten/held at bay with sufficient willpower and skill. And Old Varus happen to be the greatest archer in Ionia, maybe even Runeterra when he came out.

  3. There are literally several Ionian and Noxian characters that all have to do with the war that can be tied to Varus. And the whole point of characters getting their lore updated was so that Riot could make them fit in the larger world and interact with others. I don't believe for a second that Varus's old lore was a dead end and it could be properly expanded upon

  4. Again, there is no reason Varus couldn't hold off a Darkin like Kayn can. Just because he wants revenge doesn't mean the Darkin gets to instantly win. He wants to be the one to kill them, he is literally devoting all his efforts to killing those responsible and that including holding onto his body against the corruption/Darkin. And if he did lose, than that is fine. No one that read the Old Varus lore saw a happy ending for him. We knew he was going to die doing this, so if they made that canon and we have the Darkin now, than that is at least a has something to do with the original lore.

Look I ain't saying you don't have to like the old lore, I actually think it's fine as an original concept. But it has almost nothing that evokes the same feeling as Old Varus. Yeah you can say old Varus wasn't build for the long run story wise, but the whole point of these lore updates is to change that, give the old characters more long term plans and goals, not to completely change them.

AbiwonKenabi6 votes

His VESSELS are gay

People need to stop bringing this up. Nobody even cares that they're gay. The changes outside of this are dumb. Also, the fact that they put so much emphasis on these characters means they are equally important, they are a part of the character.

The new ghost busters wasn't bad because they changed the gender of our beloved characters, it was bad because these characters were not even them. The story was labeled ghost busters and had nothing to do with the real ghost busters... In that scenario it makes sense to call it something else.

EXACTLY

ANYONE stricken by war can be vengeful over a loss

By that logic, anyone with a dying loved one would take risks in order to save them. These same things apply to the new story as well. Different isn't always better, especially when you are working with a pre-established character.

An angry war daddy

Do you not get along with your dad? I am pretty close to my father and it tears me apart to think of him doing something like this, yet I would understand that level of grief. Not everyone has had the "love conquers all" level of relationship. EVERYONE HAS PARENTS and many people are parents themselves. Themes and concepts in old Varus lore are instinctual and human, literally every person in the world has loved ones and has thought about what a mess they would be if they lost them.

most of you don't even see that riot is actually trying to tell a legitimate story here.

That's not it, we see the story. Most of us just think it's a bad story and that the old one, while it needed fleshing out, was better. It has nothing to do with the gays.

There is nothing about old Varus that makes him, even remotely, more interesting than this.

I and many others disagree. Seeing how humans react to loss is inherently interesting, it's what makes characters like Deadpool and the Punisher interesting. What makes Varus even more interesting is that he was forced to chose between his duty of defending this evil entity or defending his family, at the cost of the other. He makes meaningful decisions and faces consequences, which is more than I can say for the new characters or the Darkin.

was Varus and his wife becoming the darkin vessel, hardly any of you would have nothing to complain about.

Completely misconstruing everyone's arguments. Yeah, it probably would be less controversial if it were a straight couple, but now we can't even criticize the story for what it is without being accused of being homophobes. I have seen plenty of logical arguments of how the old lore had way more potential and the new lore sucks without once mentioning that they're gay. No one cares...well I guess somebody out there probably does, but this is not the consensus among critics of the new lore.

two powerful male warriors just makes more sense

Hey now. Don't open too many cans'o'worms at once.

But seriously, the story has gay characters, but it isn't focused on how gay these guys are

Which is why we are trying to criticize it like any other story. Special treatment should not be given to this lore just because it has gay people in it. If the reason we didn't like the new lore is because they're gay, then yeah, that's flawed logic. That isn't the reason. People are understandably skeptical of Riot completely replacing the old lore of a pre-established character with something that does not do justice to the themes of the original story, does not expand upon it, and instead replaces it with something mediocre at best.

Caretaker Jack3 votes

"Nobody even cares that they're gay. The changes outside of this are dumb. Also, the fact that they put so much emphasis on these characters means they are equally important, they are a part of the character."

  • So you care more that he isn't human Varus? Like, I understand if you'd prefer him not be a Darkin... In fact, I hope that's what you're saying because everything you're on about right now falls apart otherwise... And I'd probably stop right here.

I said my piece on the lore and judging by his play rates (excluding the one he was broken in) and 104K+ likes on youtube, I am definitely free to disagree with you and maybe 200 people in the forums... That much is objective to say the least.

I don't wanna accuse anyone of anything, but homophobia is bound to come up if people complaining about Varus comes with the word "gay" in every title... Like, I don't know whats in your minds/ hearts. Maybe a lot of you don't care about gay characters, but is it really a stretch to say that a lot of yall do? Who knows... I'm just saying that we shouldn't just act like everyone who agrees with you holds your exact same reasons.

As long as you can acknowledge that Varus being less human and relatable has to do with him being a Darkin, then I understand why you're upset... And my reaction to that is that the old story had to go because it just wasn't very good. That's just my opinion and, apparently, 17 million people understand this... But I understand what you mean and I do believe that your reasons are both very good valid ones.

Hayaishi25 votes

The new lore isn't bad. Them being gay is not the problem.

It's just that the old lore was better. Even if it was "generic" or whatever.

Quepha4 votes

Better or worse isn't even the issue. This new character isn't Varus no matter how many music videos or comics are made about him.

Caretaker Jack2 votes

Of course it isn't old Varus... He went from Human to Darkin.

Caretaker Jack3 votes

Maybe in your opinion, but that aside... When you contrast the difference in depth, development, and all around synergy with the world around them. The old lore's quality doesn't come close nor is it nearly as engaging. Like, everyone says its not because they're gay ( even though that's all they seem to highlight.) But I wont argue that.

I just removed the gay aspect and proved that this update is STILL better than before.

EX: Twilight and Harry Potter were both very popular books... You may hate both or like one over the other. But if were comparing quality, Harry Potter wins. The world is more engaging and there's a lot more going on with the characters... Basically, this new lore is the same thing.

Hayaishi23 votes

[{quoted}](name=Resurgent Bard,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=o3tZlgcI,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-12-01T20:00:14.791+0000)

Maybe in your opinion, but that aside... When you contrast the difference in depth, development, and all around synergy with the world around them. The old lore's quality doesn't come close nor is it nearly as engaging. Like, everyone says its not because they're gay ( even though that's all they seem to highlight.) But I wont argue that.

I just removed the gay aspect and proved that this update is STILL better than before.

EX: Twilight and Harry Potter were both very popular books... You may hate both or like one over the other. But if were comparing quality, Harry Potter wins. The world is more engaging and there's a lot more going on with the characters... Basically, this new lore is the same thing.

Idk man, his old character was more relatable. A man choosing duty over love realizes it was all vain when he loses the very reason he had to protect the temple. So he turns to this demonic entity he had sworn to keep sealed one who often showed him the promise of power to try and reach him and he embraces it because he has nothing to lose anymore.

But these 2 hunters.... Kai didnt even die he's inside Varus with valmar, so technically speaking they didnt lose anything other than their bodies, the old lore has an ironic twist, gives us more things to relate to the man that gave himself to the darkin(He knew the price and he knew what he was doing but he was willing to pay it) than these two hunters of whom we only know they love each other.(and went into the pit without knowing what to expect)

The best thing about the new lore is the darkin interactions and that we get to know more about them through "Varus", but this could've easily been done with the old lore.

Then again i don't hate the new lore, the old one was simply better.

Caretaker Jack2 votes

Being relatable has more to do with him being Darkin and less to do with him taking over two gay men. All they do is explain how a monster like Varus can have a suitable vessel and why he seeks full control over it instead of merely looking for the next best thing.

Old Varus losing his family in the war and getting taken over for revenge is a cliche and downplays what it takes to be a suitable darkin vessel. Why? Because there are many other people who would have been suffering loss from the Ionaian war. He definitely isn't the only guy who'd of wanted revenge because of it... Like, you could say Varus is special, but that doesn't do much to make him stand out from anyone else who might have experienced his pain. It's just a massive plot hole.

Now, i'm sure you're aware that gay people are human and I'm pretty certain you can relate to their pain just fine despite them being gay... It honestly baffles me because nobody is complaining that this noble guy is now a demonic entity. Nope. Instead they're just upset that this Darkn choose to take over 2 gay guys.

JacctheInsomniac1 votes

[deleted]

Caretaker Jack2 votes

The point your making is called an "argument from fallacy."

Just because a lore is new doesn't mean it's going to have greater depth and, even if that actually made sense, this doesn't make me fallacious for pointing out the obvious. Like, if you know that much then why would you want to turn the clock and go back to sub-par content?

Berserknurple3 votes

Most people are beyond reason my man, but good luck

JacctheInsomniac2 votes

[deleted]

Caretaker Jack3 votes

I'm not saying the original story is bad, but I am saying that it is outdated and you can't deny that the new content is better in every possible way (outside of your opinion.) Like, you may love the horse and carriage more than the car (and that's fine.) I'm just saying the car is obviously better.

This is like complaining that the character Elise sacrifices to Vilemaw or the woman in Darius's comic are generic... Like, I'll just pretend you're right about that for a second. The story is just how these gay guys became vessels to the Darkin. Thats it.

Their stories are there to develop Elise, Darius, and Varus... Their characters are grounded really well, but even if you insist on believing they aren't, surely you can understand that was never really the point of them being there to begin with... Right?

JacctheInsomniac1 votes

[deleted]

Caretaker Jack1 votes

Impossible? You just stated the old lore's condition... And, unlike your points, that hasn't changed.

I'm not talking opinions, I'm talking actual plot... All updating the old story would do is downplay a bunch of other shit. That plot was just too far behind because they took too long to update and too much has changed, so now it's just impossible to make work.

IDarkIFire2 votes

"An angry war daddy" - this just goes to show how immature you are. You clearly never have been or never will be a father, not to menton the fact that he being a deadly archer in the first place, and only gaining extra power by absorbing the corruption, is badass enough as he was. If it wasn't for what now feels like a sad attempt to just shove and include a gay representation in League of Legends by force, replacing a typical father figure (of which we don't have an abundance in league at all) his original fans would not be so pissed.

Caretaker Jack2 votes

You're the one being immature over humor you don't approve of... Lol

Oh, and thanks for proving that a few gay characters really was a problem for you. Heh, way to also make gay characters your central focus... You know, the exact thing you're all saying isn't the actual issue. >_> #fail

IDarkIFire2 votes

You either not having or not respecting your own father is your own issue my friend, not mine. I find your humor, ehm my bad - post, rather bland and unimpressive.

Caretaker Jack1 votes

And that's your opinion... Guess you missed your actual point in exchange for that ehm "burn?"

TerraRising2 votes

Where in the nine blue hells of Teemo do you get "17+ million people" who liked this new story?

Caretaker Jack1 votes

It's a typo. It should be 104K... I'll fix it.

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