There is a way to have both old Varus and new Varus

SpecterVonBaren··70 votes·10,170 views

https://i.imgur.com/bmXZ7P2.jpg

The answer is surprisingly simple, have Val and Kai be Val and Kai but have the new Darkin Varus be old Varus.

To those that don't know, old Varus's lore involved him being a protector of a dark power held in a temple, he was both a husband and father as well. Because of these two different obligations, that between his family and being a guardian, when Noxus attacked his village he had to choose between protecting the temple or his family, he chose the temple and regretted that decision when he found his village destroyed and its people, including his family, killed. He then chose to release the power in the temple and use it to hunt and kill Noxians until it eventually fully corrupted himself as both vengeance for what was done to his family and people and as atonement for making what he saw as, the wrong choice.

The new lore of Val and Kai can't really be changed, it is too new, has too many resources put behind it, and deals with a politically sensitive issue. However, Varus, the actual new character with the name Varus, has not been explored much yet, there is still potential and hope for the fans of the old Varus there.

Why not make Darkin Varus's past follow that of the old human Varus? Why not instead of just being a torturer and savage being for seemingly no reason, they make it so he's like that because his past is like old Varus? Perhaps Darkin Varus was not always hateful of humans? It says in the new lore that he was part of the second wave of Darkin that came to Runeterra, what if instead of coming just to slaughter, he initially came with calls of peace?

His group of Darkin could have come with the intent to live alongside the races and peoples of Runeterra and had established a village or city of Darkin, in which also was his family. Then it could be that later, thanks to fear of what the Darkin had done in the past and their fearsome appearance, a coalition of humans attacked the Darkin village/city, and destroyed much of it, killing many of the Darkin, including all of Varus's family except for his sister. Darkin Varus then vows to kill all Runeterrans for what they had done and dedicates himself fully to becoming a true monster because it was his "foolish" belief that the Darkin could live in peace with the Runeterrans that led to his family being killed.

So while this would not be completely the same as old Varus, this would at least be able to keep the over all themes of old Varus, that of regret, hate, and revenge, in the new Varus lore.

Edit: Perhaps a better story would be Varus coming with the initial Darkin who weren't initially out for carnage and slaughter on Runeterra, at this time the Darkin would have even given things to the Runeterrans like the knowledge of blood magic. But then the incident with betrayal happened and after an initial attempt to fight the Runeterrans, the Darkin left and then returned with a stronger second force with a real focus on killing and destruction.

75 Comments

Valaran Nara38 votes

That could be a thing. Especially since Darkin Varus shows animosity towards humans with the excuse of "You killed all my people." Hell, the first person he look for is referred to as "sister" which already shows his care for a familial bond.

Craft Zeppelin5 votes

I agree, like they don't have to be "evil because of evil".

Auz the Ripper1 votes

Well Aatrox is to battle as jhin is to murder and rhaast spends most of his time screaming about killing stuff so those two might just be “for the Evulz”

AmazoX2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Auz the Ripper,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=nAElN1pa,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-01-16T17:28:46.695+0000)

Well Aatrox is to battle as jhin is to murder and rhaast spends most of his time screaming about killing stuff so those two might just be “for the Evulz”

There's more depth to them than meets the eyes..We don't even fully know these characters origin.

#Monsters are made not born

SzGamer22710 votes

Nope. Some sh*t in Runeterra is just straight evil for evil's sake.

Evelynn is a prime example. She was once a smol force of darkness that became a swole force of darkness by feasting on the misery and suffering caused by the Rune Wars. She now inflicts misery and suffering for their own sake. She was born by, and lives for, misery and suffering.

rtbf2256182411 votes

Demons seem purely evil because they enjoy being evil for the sake of it.

Everyone else has some sort of a different motivation to them. It's not always that obvious without reading their lores first.

Rinký Dinky1 votes

Darkins aren't demons tho

TheGreatRasputin21 votes

That would solve everything. Nice job, man! Hopefully Riot notices this post.

SpecterVonBaren9 votes

I hope so, especially before they start work on Varus's new voice over, it would be important that such a direction be understood with Darkin Varus's lines.

ModAcademy Kayn15 votes

Because that ruins Darkin as a race. They are not meant to be sympathetic, they don't need to be morally grey. They are evil. Yes, you could say that Varus looking for Sister darkin is sympathetic... until that turns into them wanting to kill the entirety of Runeterra. Stop trying to ruin Darkin.

GreenLore9 votes

Well even someone evil can be sympathetic.

Not every darkin needs to be a demonic being that just slaughters as many humans as possible. Varus could have been a lighter shade of black compared to the other darkins.

ModAcademy Kayn2 votes

Yes it can. But what they're suggesting isn't simply sympathetic, it moves it into the morally grey zone. The "Oh what if the Humans started it!!?" It's dumb, ruins Darkin, yada yada, I'm tired.

GreenLore2 votes

Well the scenario that the opener suggested seems more like an example,so there is no need to follow it to a T. The general direction is the more important thing.

Besides in the end the we can have both: evil darkins that came to conquer runeterra and humans who unjustly slaughtered the darkin. The first wave of the darkins might have been an attack wave that tried to conquer runeterra for their own gains and then the second one would have been a peace offer or even evacuation of the darkin home world,I mean even if the darkin are evil,it doesn't mean that they are stupid enough to start a war they can't win.

ModAcademy Kayn2 votes

the second one would have been a peace offer

That's a real jump in logic. Not every species is completely rational, let alone humans. Pride, arrogance, anger are all reasons why Darkin could've fought a second round.

GreenLore3 votes

So you want the darkins to be dumb?

If it is obvious that they wouldn't stand a chance,then it'd be simply idiotic of them to keep attacking.Especially if they got beaten the first time.

And if a whole species can't see that and lets itself get controlled by its emotions instead,then it is simply dumb or suicidal.

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

Dumb =/= Flaws

I have a proud mage in a DnD group of mine. He doesn't like two things: Dirt and being considered inferior. He's gotten into fights lotsa times, many which have ended with him getting healed by our Cleric defeated, because someone considered him lesser, and felt the need to share it.

He's a smart as heck guy, that wizard is. But because he's proud, he gets into fights that he can't win because he thinks that this person is lesser than him. That is called a character flaw.

Since Darkin have a culture, a sense of superiority can be shared by them. Just because you have emotions, doesn't mean you're 'dumb', that's stupid.

GreenLore2 votes

If you let your flaws influence you too much,then that is simply dumb. Especially if the stakes are high,like the survival of your whole race.

After all if someone pushes the nuclear attack button just because he loves pushing buttons,then you wouldn't say "oh he is simply flawed,but otherwise smart",no you would just say that the person is dumb for doing it.

And if the darkins already sent a first wave ,then said wave was likely defeated,so they should have known that their chances of winning are really bad. That'd be like your wizard trying to fight the same person twice in a row,even though he was curbstomped the first time.

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

I'm sorry, but I just can't agree with you here. Character Flaws are something meant to be overcome, that's their entire point. I have a Psion who's scared for her life all the time, and would gladly backstab her party if it meant saving her own life.

Your example is not a character flaw, that's just poor judgement being caused by nothing, in other words, stupidity. Which itself is a flaw. You're also only seeing it from your perspective, you don't know the reasoning or logic that's in the other person's head. (Note: I'm not defending the obvious person in this metaphor, only Character perspective.)

Proud people don't give up that easily, and just because a Race is proud and would rather go out fighting, doesn't make them 'dumb'. Elves are commonly a proud race in many stories, refusing help of outsiders, even if it's better for them to do so. From your perspective, they seem stupid for not accepting, but from their's, they have culture, tradition, some shared sense of superiority that begs a different point of view that "They don't need help."

If they're a proud race, they'd taken even LESS problem with trying to invade them again, trying to prove that THEY are the strongest, not humans. Again, dumb from our perspective, but it's not 'dumbness' that drives their reasoning.

GreenLore1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=nAElN1pa,comment-id=000500000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-01-17T17:20:13.369+0000)

Proud people don't give up that easily, and just because a Race is proud and would rather go out fighting, doesn't make them 'dumb'. Elves are commonly a proud race in many stories, refusing help of outsiders, even if it's better for them to do so. From your perspective, they seem stupid for not accepting, but from their's, they have culture, tradition, some shared sense of superiority that begs a different point of view that "They don't need help."

If they're a proud race, they'd taken even LESS problem with trying to invade them again, trying to prove that THEY are the strongest, not humans. Again, dumb from our perspective, but it's not 'dumbness' that drives their reasoning.

The thing is that they obviously weren't trying to go down fighting and most likely didn't even consider it. Otherwise Varus wouldn't be so furious at the humans,if they expected to die anyway.

So if a race tries to go down fighting,then I can respect that. But if they do it and then complain about losing,it just becomes stupid.

Eitherway the circumstances of the darkin invasion are still shrouded in mystery so in the end we likely won't come to a conclusion here,as we can speculate about all the possible scenarios and would still not be able to judge their actions.

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

The thing is that they obviously weren't trying to go down fighting

Not what I was getting at. I was just saying that Pride as a race, could make them think they could win a second time around. Other than that, speculation is half of what we do on these boards :P

Emperor of Fate2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=nAElN1pa,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-01-16T10:06:06.573+0000)

Because that ruins Darkin as a race. They are not meant to be sympathetic, they don't need to be morally grey. They are evil. Yes, you could say that Varus looking for Sister darkin is sympathetic... until that turns into them wanting to kill the entirety of Runeterra. Stop trying to ruin Darkin.

I dont think that darkins were ever presented as evil. An evil entity is the one that causes havoc for the sake of causing it. Darkins invaded runeterra to conquer and create an army of strong soldiers(Aatrox . Darkins shared their blood magic with humans and the fact that they consider them inferior and does not hold their life in high regard is natural...do you view the livestock as an equal? Is a wardog's life as important as the one of his general?

GreenLore2 votes

Evil doesn't just mean you cause havoc for the sake of causing it(in dnd terms that would be chaotic evil or stupid evil),it also means that you'll harm others for your gain(or the gain of your cause) even though said gain isn't necessary for you(and then there are some things that are so bad,that they might be considered evil even if they are necessary).

The motives that you mention there are pure speculation,we don't know why the darkin attacked runeterra.They might have had a good cause or they could have been simply powerhungry monsters.

And honestly every darkin so far is rather evil. Varus is mentioned to be someone that enjoys torturing his victims and who was a relentless killer before his imprisonment. Rhaast really seems to just care about killing things for the sake of killing. Aatrox escalates wars because he thinks that they are beautiful when they are full of killing.

Emperor of Fate1 votes

{quoted}

Evil doesn't just mean you cause havoc for the sake of causing it(in dnd terms that would be chaotic evil or stupid evil),it also means that you'll harm others for your gain(or the gain of your cause) even though said gain isn't necessary for you(and then there are some things that are so bad,that they might be considered evil even if they are necessary).

so exploitatio of any kind is evil? ( it also means that you will harm others for your gain) . According to your logic every single human that accumulates x resource instead of sharing ,while he is aware that some people are dying due to lack of that x resource is evil..Because you know harming is not limited only to physical damage.For me greediness is not an evil trait ( wars most of them time are made due to that ).

evil is the power that directly opposes good at any given time......in order to define something as evil you have to first defien good and unlike our world (at least the west) runeterra doesnt seem to have a clear set of traits that are considered ''good''. Demacia views magic as evil for them soraka is considered evil..

For ME the only potential evil in runnetera is the black mist....

The motives that you mention there are pure speculation,we don't know why the darkin attacked runeterra.They might have had a good cause or they could have been simply powerhungry monsters.

yes they are speculation but is hinted that they tried to train the people of runeterra as an army ( blood magic...)

And honestly every darkin so far is rather evil. Ehh...darkins are nto humans we can not use the smae moral scale....as i already said they viewed humans as tool..or a lesser lifeform....do you care about the mosquitoes yo uhave killed?

Varus is mentioned to be someone that enjoys torturing his victims and who was a relentless killer before his imprisonment.

i dont remember varus ever saying that..

Rhaast really seems to just care about killing things for the sake of killing.

ok this may be the case...

Aatrox escalates wars because he thinks that they are beautiful when they are full of killing.

New lore doesnt mention something like that

GreenLore1 votes

{quoted}

so exploitatio of any kind is evil? ( it also means that you will harm others for your gain) . According to your logic every single human that accumulates x resource instead of sharing ,while he is aware that some people are dying due to lack of that x resource is evil..Because you know harming is not limited only to physical damage.For me greediness is not an evil trait ( wars most of them time are made due to that ).

And by your logic it'd be morally acceptable to murder and steal from everyone as long as you gain something out of it...

Besides you are taking my point a bit too far. Of course there are borders,I'm not evil just because I don't share my chocolate bar with someone. But if I murder someone for a chocolate bar,even when I'm not starving?Then yeah I'd be evil.

Ehh...darkins are nto humans we can not use the smae moral scale....as i already said they viewed humans as tool..or a lesser lifeform....do you care about the mosquitoes yo uhave killed?

We can still judge them by our moral scale. Just because someone doesn't see anything wrong with stabbing people doesn't mean it isn't evil by our moral standards.

i dont remember varus ever saying that..

Its the very first sentence of his lore.... "Varus was a deadly killer who loved to torment his foes with arrows, driving them to insanity before closing for the kill."

And just to make sure that this is clear it even clarifies it again in the last sentence "but should this sadistic and egotistical darkin killer come to fully dominate his new body, it is certain he will seek to reunite with the survivors of his race in hopes of reducing Runeterra to an ashen wasteland."

New lore doesnt mention something like that

His VO still makes it very clear.

Emperor of Fate1 votes

{quoted}

And by your logic it'd be morally acceptable to murder and steal from everyone as long as you gain something out of it...

Besides you are taking my point a bit too far. Of course there are borders,I'm not evil just because I don't share my chocolate bar with someone. But if I murder someone for a chocolate bar,even when I'm not starving?Then yeah I'd be evil.

We can still judge them by our moral scale. Just because someone doesn't see anything wrong with stabbing people doesn't mean it isn't evil by our moral standards.

Its the very first sentence of his lore.... "Varus was a deadly killer who loved to torment his foes with arrows, driving them to insanity before closing for the kill."

And just to make sure that this is clear it even clarifies it again in the last sentence "but should this sadistic and egotistical darkin killer come to fully dominate his new body, it is certain he will seek to reunite with the survivors of his race in hopes of reducing Runeterra to an ashen wasteland."

His VO still makes it very clear.

I think that i stated why i dont beleive our scale does not apply on runeterra,,,,,,according to your logic demacians are evil( they are prejudiced against anything magical) also the same aplies for most of the people that fear yordels

we can judge varus for his actions but we can not name him evil....if a kid ''torments'' an ant is it evil? Humans are just like ants for darkins....the fact that he isnt from runeterra makes things complicated.. Also as far as his new goal is concerned i find it logical...he views runeterra as a prison

About the chocolate thing : we dont know if darkins were forced to invade runeterra or not..so we both make assumptions at that point...darkins may indeed starved fue to the lack of magi...i mean chocolate

I am pretty sure Aatrox VO is outdated but whatever..

GreenLore1 votes

Demacians Not every demacian is against magic and their prejudices are based on fear,which is based on misinformation,so overall,their prejudice against magic is excusable by real life morals to some extend,because they think that this is necessary for the safety of the country and thus it is a necessary evil for them.

Ants The thing is that the child and the ant can't communicate with each other,so the child is unaware of what it does to the ant. But the same doesn't apply to darkins and humans.After all they do speak the same language,they can communicate with each other and the darkin can understand the pain of loosing others(which is why Varus is so furious in the first place)

If I see other humans as nothing but ants and proceed to torture and kill them,then I'd be still seen as evil by pretty much everybody.

chocolate Yeah we'll need more info about the reasons for the darkin invasion,but my point was that harming others for your own gain can also be a form of evil,because you defined evil as "causing havoc for the sake of causing it",which would exclude stuff like theft or robberies.

Aatroxs VO Well his new lore is basically just an expansion of his previous one,so I don't see a reason to doubt his VO.And it is his canon characterization until he'll get a new VO or a lore update that contradicts him.

Emperor of Fate1 votes

{quoted}

Demacians Not every demacian is against magic and their prejudices are based on fear,which is based on misinformation,so overall,their prejudice against magic is excusable by real life morals to some extend,because they think that this is necessary for the safety of the country and thus it is a necessary evil for them.

No its not excusable by real life morals to any extend....according to your logic throwing defomed babies into giant pits («Αποθέτες»..sorry i dont know how this translates properly to english) was acceptable for ancient spartans , because if they didnt their comparatively small population would have been filled with weak soldiers and thus the natives that were enslaved may had a chance to rebel against them.( that was a legit argument by the way and holded weight ....the intense military training was , at least a t the begining , in order to keep the native population in check).NECESSARY EVIL...nah ....

Ants The thing is that the child and the ant can't communicate with each other,so the child is unaware of what it does to the ant.

People can not communicate with dogs either but if you dare to hit a stray dog( even if it attacks you) you are in serious trouble...''animals have rights''..or better ''some animals have rights'' the ones people decide that must have...killing a fly because it annoys you is ok...killing a dog because it annoys you is not...why is that so? oh i know , propably because we are making the rules in the first palce we deem a flys life as less important than dogs! we have the power to make whatever we want....

But the same doesn't apply to darkins and humans.After all they do speak the same language,they can communicate with each other and the darkin can understand the pain of loosing others(which is why Varus is so furious in the first place)

...The same goes for darkins they are the superior race and can do whatever they want...if they decide that humans are worthy of some privilages (dogs) and some others dont (flies , ants) its ''ok'' ...real life morals proves that...just place darkins above humans in the food chain...this not by any means good by real life standards but it is not evil either( simply ok)...we as humans have the tendency to think that our life worths more than anything in the universe..and we are right because we havent encounter someone that can disprove us....runeterra is not like that...

If I see other humans as nothing but ants and proceed to torture and kill them,then I'd be still seen as evil by pretty much everybody.

......i woulb be seen as evil by pretty mucha ny human....i dont think that life forms of higher status like aurelion will care....and again if we want to apply real world morals we ahve to consider that we are not at the top fo the pyramid in runeterra..

chocolate Yeah we'll need more info about the reasons for the darkin invasion,but my point was that harming others for your own gain can also be a form of evil,because you defined evil as "causing havoc for the sake of causing it",which would exclude stuff like theft or robberies.

Yea thats the part i mainly disagree with you , for me theft and robberies are not evil actions..they are worth of punishing , yes ,because ultimately they can lead society to chaos( if they are left without punishment).However no matter waht the motive for a robbery is ( poor economical state , negative influence from peers , addictions that have to be fullfilled or even pure greed) it is not an evil act because evil does not equals illegal....I dont now if it is just me but a find the word evi rather heavy , the same goes for good. Someone that does not commits crimes is not always a good person! so someone tht jsut commits crimes is nto an evil person either...As i already said evi lis the power that directly opposes the good of the world...obey the laws is just a fragment of what defines a good person nowdays! And no i dont justify murder or something ( its just not an evil act to me when it is commited by someone that does not belong to the same race...darkin/human)

Aatroxs VO Well his new lore is basically just an expansion of his previous one,so I don't see a reason to doubt his VO.And it is his canon characterization until he'll get a new VO or a lore update that contradicts him.

You are right in that one..even i a disagree i can nota rgue about that until new info comes out..

GreenLore1 votes

Demacians Of course everything can be taken to extremes.Besides if the spartans really had only limited resources and were under constant attack,then yeah killing the weaker babies in order to secure the survival of the whole group is a necessary evil,it is killing the few for the sake of the many,even if these few are babies. Heck this behavior is even seen in the animal kingdom,where some animals eat their childs if they are about to starve to death,because the mother knows that if she doesn't survive,her babies won't do it either.

Ants You are reducing communication to the language,when communication happens on much more levels. Ants have no way to communicate with us,but it is easily possible to communicate with a dog,the dog may not be able to talk and might not clearly understand you,but he can easily make his emotions clear to you,while you can also make yours clear to him and you can exchange basic ideas.

good vs evil and chocolate I disagree with you and honestly I feel like most people would disagree with you on that point. Your definition of evil is that someone causes havoc for no reason,but that would mean if someone would torture and kill others because he gets a kick out of it,then he wouldn't be evil. Because after all,the person is getting something out of it,in the form of pleasure.

Emperor of Fate1 votes

{quoted}

Ants You are reducing communication to the language,when communication happens on much more levels. Ants have no way to communicate with us,but it is easily possible to communicate with a dog,the dog may not be able to talk and might not clearly understand you,but he can easily make his emotions clear to you,while you can also make yours clear to him and you can exchange basic ideas.

i think i made my opinion clear....if i hit a stray dog that is fucking attacking me i will have problems with the law because humans the ''superior'' race deemed the dog worthy of having rights( and no iam not against animal rights that **is not my point)....if i kill a fly i wont...darkins view as us flies they dont value our life that much...the fact that i killed a fly does not make me evil the same goes for the darkin that will kill a human...As I already said humans are not that strong..compared to other forms of life in runeterra...even between them huge variations exist! Human rigths , law and morals can not apply to beings fundamentaly unequal ** ! Beings like aurelion and to a lesser extend xerath are what some people would have called god , darkins are what we have called demons ( yea i know that actual demons existEvelynn )....

good vs evil and chocolate I disagree with you and honestly I feel like most people would disagree with you on that point.

so what!?...''most people will disagree with you'' thing doesnt feel like a noteworthy statement...anyway i want to beleive that you didnt used it as a form of counter argument..

Your definition of evil is that someone causes havoc for no reason,but that would mean if someone would torture and kill others because he gets a kick out of it,then he wouldn't be evil. Because after all,the person is getting something out of it,in the form of pleasure.

Ahhh... i thought that i explicitely stated that i declare murder as a non evil ( although still not holy or good)act when the one commiting it is not a human being.....it is literaly the last sentence of my paragraph..

To sum it up : good and evil are jsut two ends of a spectrum that is changing for me ....runeterra and our world are use different forms of that spectrum...

GreenLore1 votes

Overall i think we won't reach a conclusion here. I believe that we can judge other beings by our standards,you disagree with that and in the end there is no clear right or wrong about these opinions.

In my opinion it is ok to judge the darkins by human standards,since they still have humanlike minds,so its not like they are impossible to understand and thats why I consider them evil,as they should be able to understand us as well,yet they still choose to kill and torture humans(at least the ones that we know of).

Emperor of Fate1 votes

{quoted}

Overall i think we won't reach a conclusion here. I believe that we can judge other beings by our standards,you disagree with that and in the end there is no clear right or wrong about these opinions.

I agree...anyways those conversations are not always about reaching a certain conclusion....the fact that i saw a different viewpoint on the matter is positive nonetheless!

GreenLore1 votes

Yup I see it the same way,it was definetly interesting,which is also nice in its own way :)

Skorch2 votes

Quoted to another guy below: "Fun fact, they all already are "somewhat" grey, or at least werent ALWAYS bloodthirsty monsters.

The first invasion of runeterra was to find other sentient beings to help them battle the void on their home planet, and for awhile the humans accepted the darkins gifts (Hello Blood magic) But then realized that the Darkin were absolutely terrifyingly powerful and decided "fuck these guys" and fought them, then wave 2 came and was like "Heard you talking shit" and then they lost too.

So it pretty much is a swap from invasion 2 to invasion 1."

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

Find me a source for the

The first invasion of runeterra was to find other sentient beings to help them battle the void

Cause I don't know if I missed that one or not

Skorch1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=nAElN1pa,comment-id=000500020000,timestamp=2018-01-16T22:43:44.214+0000)

Find me a source for the

Cause I don't know if I missed that one or not

Ok, screwed up it is a theory based on current knowledge. Here is vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0vISzPocRI However invasion 2 was 100% for War so if varus is on that hes not the best guy.

ninjaroxas1 votes

Can you tell me where it is said all darkin are evil? And not just a few people saying it.

ModAcademy Kayn2 votes

Because the Boards has a hard on for Grey characters. Look at Rhaast, look at Aatrox. Nothing about them gives any hint of them being any form of 'good', or having any redeemable traits for their destruction. I'm looking at everything Riot has shown about Darkin. I'm not looking at what I want Darkin to be, like people here are.

CHODES AND LOADS9 votes

i hope they do something like this, for the sake of people that actually care about what old varus was about. it sucks to have a character you like retconned.

i wanted a gay character in league, but not at the cost of erasing an existing story in order to exist.

Stars Shaper7 votes

This is something that popped out a lot (and I hope it's been taken into consideration).

But I have some fears about it: Wouldn't then the Darkin become another "grey" group of characters?

Right now the main trait of the Darkins is to be demonic-like figures who thrive in destruction, war and suffering. We know that the magic use of Runeterrans is what drove them there (ala Burning Legion from Warcraft xD) but throwing their darkness/bad guys role away might be a mistake.

Emperor of Fate1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=nAElN1pa,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-01-16T14:57:55.891+0000)

This is something that popped out a lot (and I hope it's been taken into consideration).

But I have some fears about it: Wouldn't then the Darkin become another "grey" group of characters?

Right now the main trait of the Darkins is to be demonic-like figures who thrive in destruction, war and suffering. We know that the magic use of Runeterrans is what drove them there (ala Burning Legion from Warcraft xD) but throwing their darkness/bad guys role away might be a mistake.

So you are suggesting that one dimensional characters are preferable than complex onbes? ( iam not implying that currently darkins are highly complex...but the fact that are not evil gives them potential to do so!)

midnight oil242 votes

The thing is, we see them as evil, but they likely see themselves as good. We're looking at the situation with the morals we were raised with, who's to say they can't be evil but still have shades of grey? It could provide a look at a culture where what we see as evil is celebrated, instead of the usual "these people have good intentions but they go too far" sort of thing we usually get. I'd find an evil society that doesn't see itself as evil as more interesting, because you can't apply the well intentioned extremist trope to everyone. The Darkin could look like bad guys to us and have their grey morality come from having sets of morals that clash completely with this world.

Plus then we wouldn't have to deal with annoying tropes like the token good teammate for the Darkin. It'd be nice to, in a world with Bilgewater and Demacia and more all being places that either look great but are crap or look like crap but have some good, have a side that's just bad to us. It'd be surprisingly fresh in the League lore.

Emperor of Fate1 votes

[{quoted}](name=midnight oil24,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=nAElN1pa,comment-id=000a00010000,timestamp=2018-01-16T21:41:37.696+0000)

The thing is, we see them as evil, but they likely see themselves as good. We're looking at the situation with the morals we were raised with, who's to say they can't be evil but still have shades of grey? It could provide a look at a culture where what we see as evil is celebrated, instead of the usual "these people have good intentions but they go too far" sort of thing we usually get. I'd find an evil society that doesn't see itself as evil as more interesting, because you can't apply the well intentioned extremist trope to everyone. The Darkin could look like bad guys to us and have their grey morality come from having sets of morals that clash completely with this world.

Plus then we wouldn't have to deal with annoying tropes like the token good teammate for the Darkin. It'd be nice to, in a world with Bilgewater and Demacia and more all being places that either look great but are crap or look like crap but have some good, have a side that's just bad to us. It'd be surprisingly fresh in the League lore.

i agree 100%....i couldnt have said it better!

Skorch2 votes

Fun fact, they all already are "somewhat" grey, or at least werent ALWAYS bloodthirsty monsters.

The first invasion of runeterra was to find other sentient beings to help them battle the void on their home planet, and for awhile the humans accepted the darkins gifts (Hello Blood magic) But then realized that the Darkin were absolutely terrifyingly powerful and decided "fuck these guys" and fought them, then wave 2 came and was like "Heard you talking shit" and then they lost too.

So it pretty much is a swap from invasion 2 to invasion 1.

Stars Shaper3 votes

Is it confirmed somewhere or is it an interpretation from the bits we know?

Skorch1 votes

It is interpretation, however what we DO know is the second invasion was strictly war. So Varus being on 2 probably wont make him a very good guy. Heres the theory probably shouldve stated as such but oh well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0vISzPocRI

GreenLore1 votes

Overall I wouldn't give too much about this theory,as it is mostly speculation and Necrit has a habit of jumping to conclusions.

I mean we don't have any information that implies that there is any connection between the darkin and the void and we also have no idea what the first invasion was about.

Skorch1 votes

I would still give enough merit to this specific theory specifically for what the OP wants. Because it is obvious the darkin werent always on bad terms as they flat say they gave us blood magic (sure it could be that runeterrans stole it from them but it doesnt sound the case) And I dont really care whether or not they came to runeterra to get assistance with the void. The main thing is "Planet got destroyed, went to another planet looking for peace, gets shit on" is enough to fulfil old Varus

GreenLore1 votes

Even evil groups can be victims of other evils.

It's not uncommon for an evil character to suffer a horrible fate that makes people feel bad for them,even if they know that the bad guy had it coming for them.

The darkin could be like this. Evil beings that were massacred under unjust circumstances.

Stars Shaper2 votes

But League has too much of it.

Noxus used to be the sort-of-bad guys but got greyed out even in its cruelest characters, Demacia used to be the good guys but now patriarchy and untolerant witchhunts have been dragged into the dominant attitudes, same thing for Piltover and Zaun all for the sake of dept (which makes sense in most of the cases, I'm not against the double facets of the factions at hand).

But turning also the Darkin into a "we are really misjudged good/neutral guys" would just leave the Black Mist Thresh, Hecarim and Mordekaiser as the only real dark characters.

GreenLore2 votes

I never said that they should turn the darkins into grey characters. I only said that there can be sympathetic aspects to them.

Sympathetic =/= grey

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