I'd personally like to see more than one lore event per year, just to let us know that Riot actually works HARD at lore updates. Having more than one event this year would help your cause a lot.
For instance, when are we getting to the Mount Targon or Demacia events?
RiotBioluminescence9 votesObviously, I ain't Jaredan, but I would imagine with the upcoming event, there'll be a lot of Rioters on multiple teams waiting to see how the full Bilgewater event goes. A lot will depend on what goes down well with different kinds of players (and what stinks) and that'll be an awesome amount of learning and information to inform all future events :D
I.e. I don't have the answer to your question, but I think we should find out what we like and dislike about the Bilgewater event, before hoping for another just the same. :)
Giving feedback on the whole process (including things like the 'Building Butcher's Bridge' post today, and all future parts of the event), will help guide the next event!
Legacy of Xion2 votesObviously, I ain't Jaredan, but I would imagine with the upcoming event, there'll be a lot of Rioters on multiple teams waiting to see how the full Bilgewater event goes. A lot will depend on what goes down well with different kinds of players (and what stinks) and that'll be an awesome amount of learning and information to inform all future events :D
I.e. I don't have the answer to your question, but I think we should find out what we like and dislike about the Bilgewater event, before hoping for another just the same. :)
Giving feedback on the whole process (including things like the 'Building Butcher's Bridge' post today, and all future parts of the event, will help guide the next event!
Bio~
In your opinion, what event would we most likely see development for champions like Kayle, Ahri, and Miss Fortune?
And thanks a bunch for always pitching in with us to make us feel loved <3 you're almost like Story & Art's KateyKhaos. Almost because you're not part of the team you're kinda answering for.
RiotBioluminescence4 votes[{quoted}](name=Legacy of Xion,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=ldbzJF3U,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-06-25T03:41:28.817+0000)
Bio~
In your opinion, what event would we most likely see development for champions like Kayle, Ahri, and Miss Fortune?
And thanks a bunch for always pitching in with us to make us feel loved <3 you're almost like Story & Art's KateyKhaos. Almost because you're not part of the team you're kinda answering for.
Hey, Legacy of Xion,
Its hard to say for _multiple _reasons, but with League being a champ-based game, you're right in noting that events have historically, and look to continue to, be about champions and their place in the world. Obviously, they have been more or less successful at that (I've certainly read quite a bit about the Shurima event, and the Freljord event). So those three champions are unlikely to be in an event together, but it's not unlikely that they'd turn up in an event related to their place in Runeterra, or the connections they have to other champs. (And unlikely doesn't mean never.)
I.e. - completely spitballing here (thus totally hypothetical), I could imagine an event that visited the beautiful continent of Ionia, featuring Karma and Ahri independently trying to locate a recently activated magical artifact, before either Bard kicks off, or it is taken and used for evil. Ahri for the sake of nature (and because she could use it to bargain for help with her condition), and Karma for her people (and the temptation to use it to defend them). Seeing those two personalities interact (one totally selfless - the other just discovering morality) could be really interesting. THIS IS JUST A RANDOM EXAMPLE WITH NO BASIS IN FACT OR EVEN RUMOR.
(Sorry for going on like that - but you know how it could go if I'm not careful.)
I also wouldn't necessarily feel that events are the only time a champion could get more development. I mean, sure - the last year or so has been categorized as a dearth of champion stories that aren't introductions - but I still hope for improvements there!
Hellioning4 votes{quoted} I also wouldn't necessarily feel that events are the only time a champion could get more development. I mean, sure - the last year or so has been categorized as a dearth of champion stories that aren't introductions - but I still hope for improvements there!
Year or so? That's an understatement. I've been hoping for improvements for years.
Starlighte4 votesHey, Legacy of Xion,
Its hard to say for _multiple _reasons, but with League being a champ-based game, you're right in noting that events have historically, and look to continue to, be about champions and their place in the world. Obviously, they have been more or less successful at that (I've certainly read quite a bit about the Shurima event, and the Freljord event). So those three champions are unlikely to be in an event together, but it's not unlikely that they'd turn up in an event related to their place in Runeterra, or the connections they have to other champs. (And unlikely doesn't mean never.)
I.e. - completely spitballing here (thus totally hypothetical), I could imagine an event that visited the beautiful continent of Ionia, featuring Karma and Ahri independently trying to locate a recently activated magical artifact, before either Bard kicks off, or it is taken and used for evil. Ahri for the sake of nature (and because she could use it to bargain for help with her condition), and Karma for her people (and the temptation to use it to defend them). Seeing those two personalities interact (one totally selfless - the other just discovering morality) could be really interesting. THIS IS JUST A RANDOM EXAMPLE WITH NO BASIS IN FACT OR EVEN RUMOR.
(Sorry for going on like that - but you know how it could go if I'm not careful.)
I also wouldn't necessarily feel that events are the only time a champion could get more development. ** I mean, sure - the last year or so has been categorized as a dearth of champion stories that aren't introductions** - but I still hope for improvements there!
So Let's talk about that specifically Bioluminescence.
Hey, how are you tonight?
Why do you think (personal opinions, not Riot opinions) that Riot has been so focused on Chapter 1's? Do you think the outcry for story progression has been heard, and if so, do you think that the slow-moving beast of Riot can move fast enough to meet the demand of the players (before the year 2017)?
Who's your favorite champion that you'd like to see a Chapter 2+ for, and if their lore is still anchored to the IoW, how do you envision a proper rewrite of that champion's lore to reflect the core aspects of their character, while maintaining canon to the new world w/o the IoW?
Hopefully a few of those questions will pique your interest, fire some back if you've got any for me.
RiotBioluminescence7 votesSo Let's talk about that specifically Bioluminescence.
Hey, how are you tonight?
Why do you think (personal opinions, not Riot opinions) that Riot has been so focused on Chapter 1's? Do you think the outcry for story progression has been heard, and if so, do you think that the slow-moving beast of Riot can move fast enough to meet the demand of the players (before the year 2017)?
Who's your favorite champion that you'd like to see a Chapter 2+ for, and if their lore is still anchored to the IoW, how do you envision a proper rewrite of that champion's lore to reflect the core aspects of their character, while maintaining canon to the new world w/o the IoW?
Hopefully a few of those questions will pique your interest, fire some back if you've got any for me.
Hey, Starlighte. My evening's not bad, though I think I may have just gotten in over my head and I've not eaten dinner yet. You know how it can go.
Personal opinion on the Chapter#1s? I think that it's easy to schedule writing a chapter 1 for a new champion that has absolutely nothing - but that it's harder to decide that a champion needs a chapter 2 by a certain date. It seems a lower priority, especially compared to new champs, champ reworks, and other urgent schedule hogs. It just keeps getting knocked off the priority top spot by anything else.
I think that the outcry has yes, finally, been heard by the right people (it had been heard by lots of people before, ofc) and the beast that is Riot is paying attention to how threadbare that part of its wardrobe has been. How fast it can move to fix it? I don't know. As you know, it can't be an overnight fix with just one wave of a hand, or one piece of written lore - it will have to be a shift accompanied by multiple examples. So, in a lot of ways - no, it can't move fast enough to meet the demands of players - because it wasn't fixed years ago. It's impossible to move fast enough to fix that. I think it can move fast enough to _start _fixing things and make improvements - but for some players they have already decided it's too little too late. Which is fair - each player makes that decision for themselves.
Hmmmmm. My choice for chapter 2... That's a tough one for me. I've got a 1 in 125/126 of picking the one you might agree with me on :) For me, I think I'd like to see a continuation of Sona or Kalista. Sona because she's got some places she probably needs to visit to learn more about herself. Kalista because it'd be good to learn about her pre-Shadow Isles, and even learn about all of Runeterra through the souls and personalities that she bargains with. There - I'm sure I've pissed off a lot of people! :)
darkdill2 votesMy choices for a Chapter 2+ would obviously be Leona and Lux. Heck, if it were my way, I'd have them meet and go on an adventure together.
Small blurb!
Leona is on a pilgrimage (and searching for Diana) when she comes across Lux as she's being accosted by Noxian thugs. After defeating the ruffians, Leona learns that Lux had just fled Noxus after spying on a meeting between Swain and Leblanc, the former who orders the latter to go to Ionia to recover a powerful artifact. Leona offers her help to Lux in warning the Ionians about this threat, but their journey to Ionia is fraught with perils.
Neat idea?
RiotBioluminescence4 votesMy choices for a Chapter 2+ would obviously be Leona and Lux. Heck, if it were my way, I'd have them meet and go on an adventure together.
Small blurb!
Leona is on a pilgrimage (and searching for Diana) when she comes across Lux as she's being accosted by Noxian thugs. After defeating the ruffians, Leona learns that Lux had just fled Noxus after spying on a meeting between Swain and Leblanc, the former who orders the latter to go to Ionia to recover a powerful artifact. Leona offers her help to Lux in warning the Ionians about this threat, but their journey to Ionia is fraught with perils.
Neat idea?
I am cautiously in favor! I personally see Leona as being somewhat unapproachable, myself - being the chosen of the sun being something that probably changes a person, after all. It would be really cool to see what that means for actually interacting with someone completely outside of that existence! Hrm, why would Lux tell a complete stranger her secret mission? Their relationship would need to be pretty well formed before that secret came out. I think these are interesting questions that if a chapter 2 looked into, would ideally answer.
What form would you have such a chapter 2 take do you think? There's a bit of backstory to it (Lux's eavesdropping mission) that would require a light touch to get across without just a page of exposition. I'm no expert at non-game-storytelling, but were you thinking comic with several pages of flashback? A short story? An animatic with narration?
Finnical2 votesWhat form would you have such a chapter 2 take do you think?
I have always wanted new skins to represent new lore. So to take us to a champ's chapter 2 a skin is released that shows physical change in their body or armor reflective of their lore. For instance let's say Singed tried a new experiment where he attempted to replicate Varus's living bow. During the attempt it goes wrong and grafts itself to him. Now Singed has gooey tendrils coming off his body and a purple glow in his eyes. This is a silly example but I think it demonstrates my point.
RiotBioluminescence4 votesI have always wanted new skins to represent new lore. So to take us to a champ's chapter 2 a skin is released that shows physical change in their body or armor reflective of their lore. For instance let's say Singed tried a new experiment where he attempted to replicate Varus's living bow. During the attempt it goes wrong and grafts itself to him. Now Singed has gooey tendrils coming off his body and a purple glow in his eyes. This is a silly example but I think it demonstrates my point.
I like it. Something like that would probably take a surprisingly long time to set up and ensure the timing of the various teams was right. Keep it in mind, though - because I do like it.
Doctor Ivellius2 votesThey'd had these before: Tyrant Swain is probably the most prominent example, but quite a few skins were integrated with the lore of Runeterra.
Finnical1 votesActually I am aware of that. I would like more.
RiotBioluminescence4 votesI have always wanted new skins to represent new lore. So to take us to a champ's chapter 2 a skin is released that shows physical change in their body or armor reflective of their lore. For instance let's say Singed tried a new experiment where he attempted to replicate Varus's living bow. During the attempt it goes wrong and grafts itself to him. Now Singed has gooey tendrils coming off his body and a purple glow in his eyes. This is a silly example but I think it demonstrates my point.
Hey, Finnical - just wanted to let you know I remembered your comment from last month, and while I couldn't even hint at anything back then, I hope you like the Captain Fortune skin (as well as the Cutthroat Graves and Cut-purse Twisted Fate skins). They were being worked on even before you made your comment - so my mention that it takes a while to do, and some organizing to happen, was the truth! :)
Starlighte4 votesHey, Starlighte. My evening's not bad, though I think I may have just gotten in over my head and I've not eaten dinner yet. You know how it can go.
Personal opinion on the Chapter#1s? I think that it's easy to schedule writing a chapter 1 for a new champion that has absolutely nothing - but that it's harder to decide that a champion needs a chapter 2 by a certain date. It seems a lower priority, especially compared to new champs, champ reworks, and other urgent schedule hogs. It just keeps getting knocked off the priority top spot by anything else.
I think that the outcry has yes, finally, been heard by the right people (it had been heard by lots of people before, ofc) and the beast that is Riot is paying attention to how threadbare that part of its wardrobe has been. How fast it can move to fix it? I don't know. As you know, it can't be an overnight fix with just one wave of a hand, or one piece of written lore - it will have to be a shift accompanied by multiple examples. So, in a lot of ways - no, it can't move fast enough to meet the demands of players - because it wasn't fixed years ago. It's impossible to move fast enough to fix that. I think it can move fast enough to _start _fixing things and make improvements - but for some players they have already decided it's too little too late. Which is fair - each player makes that decision for themselves.
Hmmmmm. My choice for chapter 2... That's a tough one for me. I've got a 1 in 125/126 of picking the one you might agree with me on :) For me, I think I'd like to see a continuation of Sona or Kalista. Sona because she's got some places she probably needs to visit to learn more about herself. Kalista because it'd be good to learn about her pre-Shadow Isles, and even learn about all of Runeterra through the souls and personalities that she bargains with. There - I'm sure I've pissed off a lot of people! :)
Come now, we can all agree that we have our pet-favorites. I want to see where Morgana/Kayle go without the IoW to be a stand-in for their conflict back home. Jaredan made a few soft promises about keeping them otherworldly and not pigeon-holing them into a known place of Runeterra.... With that being said, as history has shown for most of us, I am very anxious and nervous to see what happens with my favorite characters. The problem with retcons is that everybody suddenly realizes how precarious their relationship with their favorite champions are. At a moment's notice, what you loved about your champion can be removed arbitrarily, and that sucks.
Thanks for diving into some of those questions. I know I'm not the only one who believes this but, it's nice to have a Rioter (yourself) who seems to be able to sit on the fence and have both a Red perspective, and a player perspective. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a Rioter who validates the anger and frustration that the community has, and publicly vocalize it as you do. I cannot stress enough how much I appreciate that, it reminds me of Riot's early days when the devs were players first, and devs second.
Onto some less heavy stuff... So chapter 2's essentially get bumped off the list of priorities in lieu of releasing champion-related content? I don't mean to sound cyncical, and mayhaps I'm just misunderstanding what you wrote (which is fair, the flipside being mayhaps you didn't write what you meant) but, are you suggesting that Riot prioritizes lore related to releases over that of story continuation? Isn't this exactly what the lore fans have feared for ages, which is that "If it isn't selling something, the lore isn't going to be written."? That seems like a pretty shitty structure for a team that should be prioritizing the universe's IP over sales or hype...
I wish Jaredan+Co. (seriously I have to write +Co. because so few of them actually come out except for the champion AMAs...) would do a post-mortem on Narrative's shortcomings in the past few years. Obviously Jaredan was not at the helm, and not responsible for some of the earlier fuck-ups but it would be interesting to hear their thoughts on where this first went awry, and how they would have done it better.
I think we're all nervous for this reveal like you've pointed out in a previous post. Riot and the fans are looking at this next event with bated breath. If it flops, I may be a bit early with this but, I think that will be the absolute end of the dedicated lore fanatics... I'm genuinely afraid if that comes to fruition.
RiotBioluminescence4 votesOnto some less heavy stuff... So chapter 2's essentially get bumped off the list of priorities in lieu of releasing champion-related content? I don't mean to sound cyncical, and mayhaps I'm just misunderstanding what you wrote (which is fair, the flipside being mayhaps you didn't write what you meant) but, are you suggesting that Riot prioritizes lore related to releases over that of story continuation? Isn't this exactly what the lore fans have feared for ages, which is that "If it isn't selling something, the lore isn't going to be written."? That seems like a pretty shitty structure for a team that should be prioritizing the universe's IP over sales or hype...
It's more that - if a champion has absolutely NOTHING, then it clearly needs something to go with it. It's not a complete champion unless it has some art, some effects, a gameplay kit, and a bit of personality and lore. (I say a bit, because those 2 sentence lores aren't kidding anyone - they're not the long lores written by the narrative team and waiting for the tech fix, but if it's not in your hands, what do you care?)
But if I champion has reasonable art, it doesn't get scheduled for a VU. If a champion isn't too unbalanced, then it doesn't get a buff or a nerf (or a rework). If it has even the faintest hint of a background, then it doesn't bump those other things off the list to fix a game-breaking lore issue.
We could argue that some of those lores or lore changes do indeed break the game for people - but that's not as objectively clear as saying "This champ's win rate is 70% - it NEEDS a nerf!"
It's not that it was selling something, it's that new champs have nothing at all - so they get priority.
Remember, too - this is my opinion as to why these things happened. Don't go claiming that this is the 100% unvarnished truth of the matter. I may be missing context on any number of things.
Retillin3 votesIt's not that it was selling something, it's that new champs have nothing at all - so they get priority.
Thank you for talking on the boards Bio. But let's not get this wrong. You ARE selling something. The whole point of intro stories is to sell a product. Let's not kid ourselves here.
But if I champion has reasonable art, it doesn't get scheduled for a VU. If a champion isn't too unbalanced, then it doesn't get a buff or a nerf (or a rework). If it has even the faintest hint of a background, then it doesn't bump those other things off the list to fix a game-breaking lore issue.
I think this is one of the major problems. I know Riot does not have unlimited budget, but it seems too many things are put on the back burner due to allocation of funds. Most especially Lore. And the, for lack of better word, arrogance of basically saying "we know better than you" without explanation makes this hard to trust.
RiotBioluminescence4 votesThank you for talking on the boards Bio. But let's not get this wrong. You ARE selling something. The whole point of intro stories is to sell a product. Let's not kid ourselves here.
You are quite right, of course, we are selling something - but I'm saying that the fact that it's something being sold is not the only reason why they get lore. One of the additional reasons could be that new champs have nothing at all.
For example, if the only motivating factor was selling something, then wouldn't skins be the biggest target for stories and narrative? They, after all, cannot be earned exclusively through play (barring events or kind teammates). Instead it is new champs that have, in the past, got the majority of attention - champs that you can unlock with IP. I'm not saying that Riot is a bunch of money-hating angels - just that if money was our sole motivator, I think there'd be some differences. :)
So yes - we are selling new champs, and new champs have gotten the attention - but I believe there's at least one more factor involved in the decisions in the past - and there may be more factors that I don't even know about.
I think this is one of the major problems. I know Riot does not have unlimited budget, but it seems too many things are put on the back burner due to allocation of funds. Most especially Lore. And the, for lack of better word, arrogance of basically saying "we know better than you" without explanation makes this hard to trust.
I will agree (strongly!) that lore has been too often put on the back burner! I think due to the lack of people, time, and attention, that have been allocated - but those could be mitigated through funds allocated, I suppose too.
I don't like that Riot is giving off an arrogant feel - I don't like it at all. Can I ask that, for the future, if you get that vibe on something from Riot - that you get such an unpleasant 'we know best' feel - that you tell me and I can go raise hell? The fresher the example the better so I can strike while the iron is hot. I'll be keeping my eyes open for it too, of course, but I am only one perspective (and by definition, biased, despite my best efforts).
TerraRising3 votesI don't like that Riot is giving off an arrogant feel - I don't like it at all. Can I ask that, for the future, if you get that vibe on something from Riot - that you get such an unpleasant 'we know best' feel - that you tell me and I can go raise hell? The fresher the example the better so I can strike while the iron is hot. I'll be keeping my eyes open for it too, of course, but I am only one perspective (and by definition, biased, despite my best efforts).
I got a recent one for you: Pool Party Team Up.
Hippalus, Bubobubo and the rest of the team made the highest goal of that event (free Pool Party Mundo) intentionally impossible to reach through gameplay alone (they wanted to see an increase in RP buying and mystery gifting). Therefore, that event was set up for the participants to fail from the start. All I've read about the aftermath is that the team is "learning about what to do better next time," that they "messed up the tuning," and "didn't communicate the purpose of the event," whatever all that means to players who now feel they were up against an impossible task...
They won't even come out and say whether or not the highest goal could have been reached without excessive RP buying and spending from players who don't normally buy RP.
I mean, this isn't how Riot says they want to be. They've said as recently as September of last year (when they scrapped Lifetime RP rewards) that they don't want players to feel compelled to buy RP for any reason. Yet, this latest event hypocritically destroys that notion.
RiotBioluminescence8 votesI got a recent one for you: Pool Party Team Up.
Hippalus, Bubobubo and the rest of the team made the highest goal of that event (free Pool Party Mundo) intentionally impossible to reach through gameplay alone (they wanted to see an increase in RP buying and mystery gifting). Therefore, that event was set up for the participants to fail from the start. All I've read about the aftermath is that the team is "learning about what to do better next time," that they "messed up the tuning," and "didn't communicate the purpose of the event," whatever all that means to players who now feel they were up against an impossible task...
They won't even come out and say whether or not the highest goal could have been reached without excessive RP buying and spending from players who don't normally buy RP.
I mean, this isn't how Riot says they want to be. They've said as recently as September of last year (when they scrapped Lifetime RP rewards) that they don't want players to feel compelled to buy RP for any reason. Yet, this latest event hypocritically destroys that notion.
Ok, so here's how I see the Pool Party event (and I was in chat rooms and 5-man premades all weekend, trying to help get those points, too!)
Personal opinions below:
Rioters are generally competitive by nature - they play League of Legends, an intrinsicly competitive game. So when they came up with the list of goals - sure, they very likely had a list showing the typical play patterns of players over a window like that. They'll have set some of the targets to be easy gimmies - things that, even if no-one knew about the event, would be 'earned'. Then they'd have set some to be interesting goals - ones that, if anyone knew about the event, but didn't much change their play patterns over, that we'd get, but it'd be a close thing.
But now the competitive element kicks in. Players (Rioters) who are that competitive, hate the idea that there are only "Good try!" medals. I strongly suspect that they looked at the number of people playing 5-man groups, and estimated an amount that that could increase by, if the community really went all out. I ALSO think that they looked at the amount of RP out there already sat in people's accounts, and estimated how many people might try and give the event a nudge with some of that spare RP.
Those estimates look like they were wrong. Did you know, within Riot, we got an email encouraging us to get out there and play more 5-man premade games? I was already doing so, but internally we were trying to hit that goal too.
I honestly don't think the goal was to have players who are less financially flush throw down money they can't spare to get us to that stretch goal. I think it was hoping that the people who have some RP lying around (or those fortunate and more financially flush players who maybe wanted to send a friend a skin, but kept forgetting) would think this was a good time to pull that trigger. I think they thought that there are lots of people who play League and that if enough played in 5-man premades worldwide, we'd get there with great effort!
Didn't happen.
Maybe it couldn't happen and the numbers were wrong. The goal is never to make players feel bad about playing League, or for spending RP - so if that's what happened, then there'll be a lot of red faces over on that team right now.
Maybe you want a consolation prize - but I don't think that's going to happen. That would be the "Good try!" medal I was talking about earlier, and that would cheapen the efforts that people DID put in over the event. I never want people to sit there, saying "What?! I played over a dozen 5-man premades that weekend, and it didn't mean anything! We'd have got all the rewards anyway??" That party IP weekend was EARNED, gosh darn it.
I suspect their mistake was making a list of goals that had a top-tier result that would have required herculean premade-team effort across all regions. I'm talking Guinness Book Of Records level of effort. We, the players, got Olympian silver. Just because we didn't get gold, doesn't mean we didn't achieve incredible things.
I can pretty much guarantee, however, that they'll think very very hard about where to set the targets next time round.
Hang on, let me do a tl;dr because I want to make sure I've addressed your points. I don't think it was set up to guarantee a fail - I think it was set up to ALMOST CERTAINLY fail. I think that they thought that a tiny percentage chance of success could be an exciting challenge! I think that percentage was clearly smaller than we, as players, liked. They'll be looking at the numbers and the feedback reeeeal carefully now.
Solideus4 votesHi again Bio. NaKyle spoke a few words on the matter He put it down mainly to not communicating the stretch-goal nature of the last tiers well enough. The event was an experiment and a learning experience either way.
Personally, I think it's really harsh to give too much gruff about it. We were barely one day's worth of points away from getting the skin. The first couple of days were pretty slow, which might have cost us the skin reward.Either way we got lots of free stuff, basically.
I really don't think it was impossible. Not having seen any statistics on the matter, I still doubt a huge portion of the points came from RP, either way.
TerraRising4 votesOk, so here's how I see the Pool Party event (and I was in chat rooms and 5-man premades all weekend, trying to help get those points, too!)
Personal opinions below:
Rioters are generally competitive by nature - they play League of Legends, an intrinsicly competitive game. So when they came up with the list of goals - sure, they very likely had a list showing the typical play patterns of players over a window like that. They'll have set some of the targets to be easy gimmies - things that, even if no-one knew about the event, would be 'earned'. Then they'd have set some to be interesting goals - ones that, if anyone knew about the event, but didn't much change their play patterns over, that we'd get, but it'd be a close thing.
But now the competitive element kicks in. Players (Rioters) who are that competitive, hate the idea that there are only "Good try!" medals. I strongly suspect that they looked at the number of people playing 5-man groups, and estimated an amount that that could increase by, if the community really went all out. I ALSO think that they looked at the amount of RP out there already sat in people's accounts, and estimated how many people might try and give the event a nudge with some of that spare RP.
This is where we disagree. Hippalus implied on Reddit that reaching level 6 was intended to not be possible without gifting, since that was factored into the goal numbers. NaKyle also said that they had to "responsibly" offer bigger rewards when gifting became a thing.
Since no one at Riot has come out and clarified what this really means, I have taken it to mean that the event team had to recover potential lost revenue if the players did reach level 6 and get the free champ and skin. Therefore, RP purchases and spending (on other people) needed to grow to reach that ultimate goal.
Since the goal was not met, Riot gets to keep all that money anyways (win-win for you guys, lose-lose for us players).
Those estimates look like they were wrong. Did you know, within Riot, we got an email encouraging us to get out there and play more 5-man premade games? I was already doing so, but internally we were trying to hit that goal too.
Who sent the email? When did they send it? Was it sent on day 0 to encourage players in chat rooms to start qualified games? Was it sent on day 5 when it became apparent that Level 6 was not going to happen (if it was possible in the first place)?
Another thing: I have several friends who work at Riot (hard to believe given how snarky I am) and they're constantly telling me that they always miss emails sent to them, so it's possible that a big number of people within the company missed the message.
I honestly don't think the goal was to have players who are less financially flush throw down money they can't spare to get us to that stretch goal. I think it was hoping that the people who have some RP lying around (or those fortunate and more financially flush players who maybe wanted to send a friend a skin, but kept forgetting) would think this was a good time to pull that trigger. I think they thought that there are lots of people who play League and that if enough played in 5-man premades worldwide, we'd get there with great effort!
Didn't happen.
This is where I disagree. In the previously linked Reddit post, Hippalus said that one of the goals was to increase gifting. If there's THAT much spare RP lying around in the League world, then the eCommerce team should be working on making cool stuff for us to spend that RP on rather than requiring gifting to reach a goal that would otherwise be impossible through gameplay alone.
Maybe it couldn't happen and the numbers were wrong. The goal is never to make players feel bad about playing League, or for spending RP - so if that's what happened, then there'll be a lot of red faces over on that team right now.
We don't know that for sure. Maybe they're happy there weren't too many bugs with the system and aren't embarrassed about having set an impossible goal. We don't know for sure because no one outside the writer of the event has said anything, and even then he is only giving the tired cliches of "we messed up the tuning" and "we're learning so we can do better next time."
If they made a mistake with their estimates and made a goal that was impossible to reach without excessive RP purchases, intentionally or not, then they should come forward and admit it.
Maybe you want a consolation prize - but I don't think that's going to happen. That would be the "Good try!" medal I was talking about earlier, and that would cheapen the efforts that people DID put in over the event. I never want people to sit there, saying "What?! I played over a dozen 5-man premades that weekend, and it didn't mean anything! We'd have got all the rewards anyway??" That party IP weekend was EARNED, gosh darn it.
I'm not asking for a consolation prize. I never was asking for one. What I'm asking for is that someone involved in the planning of the event, not the promotion, to step forward and explain their reasoning behind putting these goals where they did. Maybe an AMA, but I suspect it would be a very hostile situation for all involved.
Simply put, if the PP Mundo goal was possible through higher than average gameplay, they can demonstrate that it was reachable, and we just didn't play enough to reach it, I'd be okay with that. However, intentionally or otherwise, if the effort to reach Level 6 required higher than normal RP purchasing and gifting (which goes against what buying RP is for), then I'd like to see Hippalus and his crew admit that.
I suspect their mistake was making a list of goals that had a top-tier result that would have required herculean premade-team effort across all regions. I'm talking Guinness Book Of Records level of effort. We, the players, got Olympian silver. Just because we didn't get gold, doesn't mean we didn't achieve incredible things.
For what it's worth, this analogy is really awful. There is a huge difference between "we lost because we didn't try hard enough," and "we're lucky we got silver because the organizers shot us in the foot milliseconds before the race started."
And while the lower tiered goals are nice and the community should be proud of reaching them, that's of little consolation to those among us who feel that the top prize was not possible beyond a huge change in spending habits.
I can pretty much guarantee, however, that they'll think very very hard about where to set the targets next time round.
Another Riot cliche? "We'll do better next time!" Heard that so many times from Riot, it means little to nothing anymore.
Hang on, let me do a tl;dr because I want to make sure I've addressed your points. I don't think it was set up to guarantee a fail - I think it was set up to ALMOST CERTAINLY fail.
What's the realistic difference? Are we talking about a miniscule percentile chance (less than 1%) versus no chance at all?
I think that they thought that a tiny percentage chance of success could be an exciting challenge! I think that percentage was clearly smaller than we, as players, liked. They'll be looking at the numbers and the feedback reeeeal carefully now.
And I believe that the chance of success was far less than was actually possible and the only people who can clarify this difference in opinions will never talk to the actual player base (the millions not employed by Riot) about their intentions and reasoning.
All the feedback is fine, but I'm afraid that the lessons they learn will be closer to "let's tell the players they need to buy and spend RP to reach the top goal" rather than "let's make sure the goal is reachable without making players spend money."
Addendum: I was under the impression that requiring RP purchases was something Riot frowned upon, especially considering how plans for Lifetime RP rewards were scrapped because too many within Riot didn't want players pressured into buying RP. Now, less than a year later, Riot created a community event where RP purchasing is required to reach the top goal. Seems pretty sketchy to me.
RiotBioluminescence4 votesThis is where we disagree. Hippalus implied on Reddit that reaching level 6 was intended to not be possible without gifting, since that was factored into the goal numbers. NaKyle also said that they had to "responsibly" offer bigger rewards when gifting became a thing.
The comment you've linked (shown below for reference, emphasis mine) doesn't say that it wouldn't be possible without gifting. It says that it was supposed to encourage gifting and encourage playing with premade teams. I suspect you'll say I'm splitting hairs or being disingenuous, but for every gift given at the end of match screen, only 4 more matches needed to be won by a premade, somewhere on the planet. I keep thinking that we could have done it with just a LOT of games.
"[–]RiotHippalus 123 points 4 days ago You're partly right. We do know how much people normally play and gift and we set up the event to give a couple rewards just for doing that, and bigger rewards if players increased their playing and/or gifting. We had to guess at how players would respond and we set it up so that greater effort would yield greater rewards, including a couple of stretch goals that were tough to reach. The goals of the event are to 1) get the community to pull together to earn rewards, 2) increase playing with friends, 3) increase gifting, and 4) learn the pros and cons of these types of events to help decide if we want to do more of them and, if so, what are the most important things to improve next time."
..
Who sent the email? When did they send it? Was it sent on day 0 to encourage players in chat rooms to start qualified games? Was it sent on day 5 when it became apparent that Level 6 was not going to happen (if it was possible in the first place)?
Another thing: I have several friends who work at Riot (hard to believe given how snarky I am) and they're constantly telling me that they always miss emails sent to them, so it's possible that a big number of people within the company missed the message.
The email was sent as a last ditch effort - 24hrs before the end of the event. It was sent by someone with the title eCommerce Manager. It was sent out to encourage Rioters to join chatrooms and get into premades and help earn points with players. So it wasn't (as you suspected) sent out on day 0.
Also, I've known a lot of game devs who miss emails - but this one was sent to the biggest riot email list - every single Rioter on the planet is supposed to be on that list. Admittedly, in the grand scheme of number of players, Rioters are a teeny tiny drop in the ocean, but I at least can hold my head up and say I tried to help.
This is where I disagree. In the previously linked Reddit post, Hippalus said that one of the goals was to increase gifting. If there's THAT much spare RP lying around in the League world, then the eCommerce team should be working on making cool stuff for us to spend that RP on rather than requiring gifting to reach a goal that would otherwise be impossible through gameplay alone.
(Emphasis mine) ABSOLUTELY AGREE. That would be the best option by far! Figuring out new things to spend RP on is a really delicate thing, though - needs to feel worthwhile and valuable, without breaking the gameplay.
For what it's worth, this analogy is really awful. There is a huge difference between "we lost because we didn't try hard enough," and "we're lucky we got silver because the organizers shot us in the foot milliseconds before the race started."
My analogies can often stink - I admit that. Sorry. What I meant was that we didn't lose - we got almost all the rewards. I know it doesn't feel like that to you, and that's a problem on our side.
I also realize that this conversation can't really go anywhere, because it's just you and I stating what we believe with the information that we both have. I don't know if it's feasible for the eCommerce team to come forwards with hard numbers on players, premades before the event and premades during the event - it's possible that's considered proprietary information that could confer a competitive edge. I honestly don't know. We don't usually publish player numbers.
I will promise you, right now, that I will send an email to the eCommerce manager who sent the email and ask him if there's anything that can be done to provide better clarity on the achievability of the final goal. Maybe they can't, but I can hopefully find out.
(Gotta go to a meeting - any delay in response is due to that!)
TerraRising2 votesI'll just respond to a few points. I do this because I agree that this conversation really can't go anywhere until we all get some solid information from those responsible for arranging the event.
I hope you had a productive meeting and I do hope that there's a better topic than Riot's failures at event planning we can engage each other with in the future.
Thunderkeg4 votesI don't like that Riot is giving off an arrogant feel - I don't like it at all. Can I ask that, for the future, if you get that vibe on something from Riot - that you get such an unpleasant 'we know best' feel - that you tell me and I can go raise hell? The fresher the example the better so I can strike while the iron is hot. I'll be keeping my eyes open for it too, of course, but I am only one perspective (and by definition, biased, despite my best efforts).
I mean I don't think there is anything you could do. But the forum debacle V2.0 is a pretty good example of Riot not listening to the community and just plowing ahead with their plans... The worst part is that this is the second time it happened. People told Rioters what would be the downsides of the boards migration and their response was "oh well fix it down the line". Fast forward a year and many of those same issues still exist and now instead of fixing them first Riot is going to shake up the boards, once again, claiming, once again, that they know best when, once again, the community protests. If this was the first time it could be excusable but at this point it feels habitual. It literally feels like all our feedback goes in one ear and out the other...
Doctor Ivellius1 votesI'd just like to comment that a lot of the old champs have nothing for lore, either--Jax, Fiddlesticks, Lee Sin, and a bunch of others. Being completely tied to the League of Legends means that they effectively don't exist as characters, and that's really sad.
Regardless, thanks for making all of these posts. They're really good.
Stars Shaper1 votesHonestly I'd like to see 
& 
Champter2s. We know that Viktor has been building the battlecasts, we know nothing about Jayce. Zaun now has 2 champions one wrecking havoc to Piltover (which while ofc being rival with the cops it might take in the field Jayce too since.. you know.. he is the Tony Stark of this game) and the other one capable of making time machines (If Viktor went far enough to collect an arcane power reactor from Jayce I guess he wouldn't let Ekko go... untutored...).
Also Rivlaries which don't just appear on champions' pages but happened in their background are GREAT Champters 2 since they can be used to enforce the rivalry itself, introduce new relationships (the enemy of my enemy is my friend), etc. etc.
Doctor Ivellius2 votesAs you note, this is a problem that should have been fixed years ago (and it actually was, until the "Great Retcon" happened). But it can't be that hard to replace all the champion lore with appropriate stories--just highlight everything, delete it, and type up a couple of sentences describing the champion. That can't take more than a few days to do.
IcyPepper2 votesI.e. - completely spitballing here (thus totally hypothetical), I could imagine an event that visited the beautiful continent of Ionia, featuring Karma and Ahri independently trying to locate a recently activated magical artifact, before either Bard kicks off, or it is taken and used for evil. Ahri for the sake of nature (and because she could use it to bargain for help with her condition), and Karma for her people (and the temptation to use it to defend them). Seeing those two personalities interact (one totally selfless - the other just discovering morality) could be really interesting. THIS IS JUST A RANDOM EXAMPLE WITH NO BASIS IN FACT OR EVEN RUMOR.
That's not a terrible idea for an event someday. Could use some tweaking, of course, but it would certainly be interesting. Maybe there could be a unique (but definitely not overpowered!) item unique to Karma and Ahri, tempting one person on each team into picking one to get really immersed in the event.
If you're willing to not 100% toss it aside as spitballing, why not pitch it to your colleagues and see what they think? Instead of two teams heading toward the other's base, a centerpiece objective to compete over would be a chance of pace. Kind of like dominion, but in the center instead of five corners.
RiotBioluminescence3 votesThat's not a terrible idea for an event someday. Could use some tweaking, of course, but it would certainly be interesting. Maybe there could be a unique (but definitely not overpowered!) item unique to Karma and Ahri, tempting one person on each team into picking one to get really immersed in the event.
If you're willing to not 100% toss it aside as spitballing, why not pitch it to your colleagues and see what they think? Instead of two teams heading toward the other's base, a centerpiece objective to compete over would be a chance of pace. Kind of like dominion, but in the center instead of five corners.
Ha! It could definitely use some tweaking, I agree :) Not my best work. Having a new game mode or item associated with an event is always a big deal, of course - and I think I'd be wary of having something specific to bringing a particular champ to a game. Simply because if no-one brought Ahri or Karma, does the game break down? What if two people both want to play Ahri? I wouldn't want to bring extra drama to the pick phase of League!
Of course, you could (if we had lots of time and money) theme the two sides of a map - one for Ahri and one for Karma. Start a game blue side? Then you fight for Karma! Actually - scrap that - it doesn't really make you feel like you're fighting FOR or with someone, if you get randomly assigned their side. Hrm. I suspect I'd want to put more thought into it (and get other designer input) to create an event that didn't just feel random - and ideally one that made me feel like I was really interacting with something uniquely Ionian! What a challenge.
IcyPepper1 votesA challenge, but it sounds like a fun one. Maybe Karma and Ahri could have their own queues, maybe something like team builder, and each side gets point per team win for that champion to decide who wins the event.
Maybe Karma and Ahri wouldn't be a requirement, maybe playing one of them could have an easter egg buff!
Or maybe have a sixth champion played by an AI, not quite to the level of doom bots of course, and it's the team's objective to protect them! Kind of like chess, where we protect the king but the players are the others pieces. Eh, I'm no creative specialist or game designer, but it's fun to dream up the potential.
As Syndra would say, the potential is limitless. Honestly, knowing you guys in Riot, most special lore events like these never fail to disappoint. Great hopes for Bilgewater!
RiotBioluminescence4 votesA challenge, but it sounds like a fun one. Maybe Karma and Ahri could have their own queues, maybe something like team builder, and each side gets point per team win for that champion to decide who wins the event.
Maybe Karma and Ahri wouldn't be a requirement, maybe playing one of them could have an easter egg buff!
Or maybe have a sixth champion played by an AI, not quite to the level of doom bots of course, and it's the team's objective to protect them! Kind of like chess, where we protect the king but the players are the others pieces. Eh, I'm no creative specialist or game designer, but it's fun to dream up the potential.
As Syndra would say, the potential is limitless. Honestly, knowing you guys in Riot, most special lore events like these never fail to disappoint. Great hopes for Bilgewater!
Oh I agree! It'd be lots of fun to work on. And I have hopes for Bilgewater too - I can't wait to give it a go.
I will say that an escort mission to protect a character is always viciously hated by many many players. :) The AI always does the wrong thing at the wrong time, and gets themselves killed. This is why in many modern games (like Bioshock Infinite or Last of Us) the companion character does not need protection. Lest you go all Resident Evil 5 and have a companion character that used all your stuff and got in the way all the time.
But like you say - there are limitless ideas! Just because one or two of them have a foible or two, only means that the most obvious ideas get out of the way so we can find some more unusual ones :D (And don't diss your own creativity - we're all creative, somehow!)
Desiderium1 votesI really wish they did Ionia instead of Bilgewater. Pirates are sooo overplayed and overrated in modern society; it's ridiculous. Ionia ARAM could have cherry blossoms, green hills on the horizon, spawn pools could be dojos...
Of course I appreciate the effort put into the map and the event. I'll enjoy it just the same, it's just that pirates are so overdone lately. I grew up with Pirates of the Caribbean, Guild Wars 2 had pirates for a very large amount of its storyline, Vindictus had an update that introduced a new pirate zone, Assassin's Creed 4: Black Flag, and now this...I don't understand the fascination with pirates. And it's not a matter of "well they're cool lol" because I'm a bit of a history buff, so I know a lot about piracy, and never found them to be "cool" or "fun" or remotely interesting at all. Even looking at it from PURELY a fantasy standpoint, ninjas and cyborgs and aliens are waaay more interesting than most depictions of fantasy pirates.
RiotBioluminescence7 votes[{quoted}](name=Kinky Ninja Boy,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=ldbzJF3U,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2015-06-25T03:48:50.561+0000)
I really wish they did Ionia instead of Bilgewater. Pirates are sooo overplayed and overrated in modern society; it's ridiculous. Ionia ARAM could have cherry blossoms, green hills on the horizon, spawn pools could be dojos...
Of course I appreciate the effort put into the map and the event. I'll enjoy it just the same, it's just that pirates are so overdone lately. I grew up with Pirates of the Caribbean, Guild Wars 2 had pirates for a very large amount of its storyline, Vindictus had an update that introduced a new pirate zone, Assassin's Creed 4: Black Flag, and now this...I don't understand the fascination with pirates. And it's not a matter of "well they're cool lol" because I'm a bit of a history buff, so I know a lot about piracy, and never found them to be "cool" or "fun" or remotely interesting at all. Even looking at it from PURELY a fantasy standpoint, ninjas and cyborgs and aliens are waaay more interesting than most depictions of fantasy pirates.
Ah, the old Pirates vs. Ninjas issue. From your name, I can see what side of the battle lines you'd fall, Kinky Ninja Boy, and I can't say why they picked Bilgewater over any other locale - but I've read a few comments from people who are staunchly pro-Pirate. I wouldn't say that we _can't _please both factions at the same time, but maybe a Pirate/Ninja crossover wouldn't be the easiest event to introduce Bilgewater and Ionia proper :)
(Forgive me, other posters - this seemed a more lighthearted comment to reply to - I do not type fast, and I am replying to others now!)
Desiderium2 votesAh, the old Pirates vs. Ninjas issue. From your name, I can see what side of the battle lines you'd fall, Kinky Ninja Boy, and I can't say why they picked Bilgewater over any other locale - but I've read a few comments from people who are staunchly pro-Pirate. I wouldn't say that we _can't _please both factions at the same time, but maybe a Pirate/Ninja crossover wouldn't be the easiest event to introduce Bilgewater and Ionia proper :)
(Forgive me, other posters - this seemed a more lighthearted comment to reply to - I do not type fast, and I am replying to others now!)
Hah, actually my favor for ninjas has nothing to do with my disinterest in pirates, but the irony is indeed amusing.
Laughing Fish5 votesWell the debate comes from whether unbridled freedom or complete control is more appealing to you. Pirates are completely free, to the point that even morality and decency do not have a place among them. And Ninjas are completely controlled, to the point that they do not sway from their mission and objectives even when they are clearly wrong.
Hellioning2 votesNow if only they did that for the Freljord and Shurima events...
Cuix6 votesObviously, I ain't Jaredan, but I would imagine with the upcoming event, there'll be a lot of Rioters on multiple teams waiting to see how the full Bilgewater event goes. A lot will depend on what goes down well with different kinds of players (and what stinks) and that'll be an awesome amount of learning and information to inform all future events :D
I'm not confident on this front. When Trundle got replaced, a lot of people were preeeetty damn mad (hey there Sneak Dog). Then, Karma's rework came along with a really terrible understanding of what her players wanted, showing a lack of learning. The Freljord event had some very questionable retcons and major moves, still being met with distaste, and the Shurima event was even worse, blasting away Skarner and completely replacing Xerath's motivations. Clearly, the lore team's mouths are bigger than their ears.
Giving feedback on the whole process (including things like the 'Building Butcher's Bridge' post today, and all future parts of the event), will help guide the next event!
We've given feedback before, about not wanting more shock reveals and massive retcons. It hasn't done any good so far. Why should we be more trusting now?
Desiderium3 votesI'm not confident on this front. When Trundle got replaced, a lot of people were preeeetty damn mad (hey there Sneak Dog). Then, Karma's rework came along with a really terrible understanding of what her players wanted, showing a lack of learning. The Freljord event had some very questionable retcons and major moves, still being met with distaste, and the Shurima event was even worse, blasting away Skarner and completely replacing Xerath's motivations. Clearly, the lore team's mouths are bigger than their ears.
We've given feedback before, about not wanting more shock reveals and massive retcons. It hasn't done any good so far. Why should we be more trusting now?
Basically you're saying "change is horrible and I hate change" without first assessing whether that change is actually an improvement or not.
It's a clarity thing as well. For example, I always saw old Xerath as a glowing blue ball of mad power that has absolutely nothing special about him. Now I know that he's an ex slave, regrets what he did to Azir, has reached a higher plane of existence rather than just being an unexplainable blue ball, etc.
Try to find what's good about change rather than bashing it simply for being a change. That doesn't mean every change ever done is an improvement to the way it was before, but you need to understand that the lore team has done a lot of good lately, and all of the retcons were necessary in order to move the story forward in ANY interesting way.
Last but not least, to answer your question, you shouldn't be trusting. Simply because your feedback is worthless due to your mindset.
Hellioning6 votes'We feel that Trundle's old story was effectively over. We have to remake Trundle, so we can tell new stories!' Stories told about Trundle since he was retconned: 0.
All we're getting is change. Change isn't necessarily bad, but when it's all you get, you feel you're on a boat that's constantly rocking. Sure, you might be charting new and exciting lands, but you kinda want things to calm down for a bit.
Melancholy Exile6 votesDon't forget that Jaredan has also recently said:
{quoted} The only way a character's story would finish would be if they die. A character will have numerous stories that make up their life. Just as is the case for a person.
When you think about it, classic Trundle was a character who could actually fit their current vision of post-reboot Runeterra fairly well if his lore was only rewritten in a way that removed the League of Legends and gave him a plot hook to follow in the new world.
Cuix5 votes[{quoted}](name=Kinky Ninja Boy,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=ldbzJF3U,comment-id=000000030000,timestamp=2015-06-25T04:12:14.670+0000) Basically you're saying "change is horrible and I hate change" without first assessing whether that change is actually an improvement or not.
That's completely disingenuous. Sometimes change is great. The kit reworks on Xerath, Karma, and Ashe were pretty nice, and new Sion is tons better in every way. Don't put words in my mouth.
It's a clarity thing as well. For example, I always saw old Xerath as a glowing blue ball of mad power that has absolutely nothing special about him. Now I know that he's an ex slave, regrets what he did to Azir, has reached a higher plane of existence rather than just being an unexplainable blue ball, etc.
He used to be a cocky transhumanist reaching for both transendence and the power to help his loved ones. Now he's Evil Vizier #6 with a side of angsty rebel.
Try to find what's good about change rather than bashing it simply for being a change.
Again, you're making an incredibly silly assumption. I'm bashing changes when they remove content that was fully usable and enjoyed by many, when there are still stories that are fertile ground for exploration without massive retcons.
Last but not least, to answer your question, you shouldn't be trusting. Simply because your feedback is worthless due to your mindset.
I suppose if you're going to make up arguments to oppose, the only stance left to you is condescension.
RiotBioluminescence8 votesI'm not confident on this front. When Trundle got replaced, a lot of people were preeeetty damn mad (hey there Sneak Dog). Then, Karma's rework came along with a really terrible understanding of what her players wanted, showing a lack of learning. The Freljord event had some very questionable retcons and major moves, still being met with distaste, and the Shurima event was even worse, blasting away Skarner and completely replacing Xerath's motivations. Clearly, the lore team's mouths are bigger than their ears.
We've given feedback before, about not wanting more shock reveals and massive retcons. It hasn't done any good so far. Why should we be more trusting now?
I know that it can easily appear that big changes were done flippantly and without care - and that all your feedback is falling on deaf ears - but really all I can say is that every action - whether eventually declared terrible mistake or promising improvement - were done with good intentions. I also know that there's a very well paved road out there that features good intentions, but all I said is that they'll be looking at the feedback so they can learn from it. I didn't ask you to trust them - and indeed I was the one encouraging you all to stay angry until there was real lore in hand, not promises - and I don't ask you to trust them now.
From what I know of the event, they are really trying to take on board as much as they can about previous events and give us more of what we want. It's an attempt, again, and maybe this time it'll be in a better direction. (Personally, I think it's in a better direction - for what the opinion of just another Rioter is worth. And no - from the history here - you probably shouldn't put your trust in me either - I am painted with the same brush).
If you'd rather not give feedback, I totally understand. You've all given a lot of very well said feedback in the past, and it's not like this is your job :) Every comment you give, is one that I humbly thank you for - me personally. I know I'm not on those teams, and this may sound sappy, but it bloody well crushes my heart with guilt that I can't give back in content and value even a fraction of the worth that you guys put into your comments and efforts, here and in the game. Thank you, and I'm sorry.
What I'll say is that internally, I hear a lot of people getting very anxious as this event gets closer - a lot of concern as to whether this will finally be a step closer to what will make League a better game for players like yourselves. We will all - you, and I, and them, and the rest of the players - will find out if it is an improvement fairly soon.
Hellioning5 votesWe'll see if they actually learned. I shall base the success of this event, lore wise, based entirely on the amount of retcons take place. More is worse.
Sneak Dog5 votesbut really all I can say is that every action - whether eventually declared terrible mistake or promising improvement - were done with good intentions. I also know that there's a very well paved road out there that features good intentions, but all I said is that they'll be looking at the feedback so they can learn from it.
Too bad Riot doesn't fix mistakes. Or does Riot even view anything they've done as a mistake? The only things I've seen Riot admit as mistakes are various communication issues and content release issues.
Even then, changes are often done without gathering community feedback. That only happens after the fact.
As for the best intentions: Source
if Trundle was going to be a frost troll, how could we make him into the “coolest” frost troll he could be? How could we incorporate the key elements of Trundle’s personality into this new narrative? What we came to was an approach that preserved what we felt were key elements of Trundle’s personality, but with a fresh new identity that built him into the story of the Freljord and provided huge opportunities for storytelling in the future.
This doesn't sound like a great start to fit a champion into the new lore to me. He got a new character to fit the story, preserving naught but a couple of key elements of the old character that would fit with the new character.
All this being the case, of course I think big changes are being done flippantly and without care.
I'm not convinced Riot has learned anything relevant yet. I won't be surprised if Riot just happily removes a couple more characters during the Bilgewater event.
I've been sticking around for two years already. My interest for the new lore got killed off along with the old Trundle. my enthusiasm for this game has been reduced to a mechanical level only over these years. I'm just playing when my friends are because this moba is the best around gameplay-wise. For all the posts you and Jaredan make, Bio, I've seen no indication that Riot has learned that I cannot care about characters if Riot just removes them without good reason.
TerraRising6 votesObviously, I ain't Jaredan, but I would imagine with the upcoming event, there'll be a lot of Rioters on multiple teams waiting to see how the full Bilgewater event goes. A lot will depend on what goes down well with different kinds of players (and what stinks) and **that'll be an awesome amount of learning and information to inform all future events ** :D
Giving feedback on the whole process (including things like the 'Building Butcher's Bridge' post today, and all future parts of the event), will help guide the next event!
I have to call you guys out on this. There's too much "we're learning for next time" going on and not "let's get it right the first time."
For example... Hippalus and the Pool Party Team Up event team screwed up that event by making Level 6 impossible to reach without more players spending more money on more RP than usual, and all they can say is "we'll do better next time.
There are a growing number of examples of this, especially around lore and skins, and it's getting irritating.
Why do we, as players, have to suffer needlessly while Riot screws up potentially cool things and have to wait until the next event to see if they actually learned the right lessons?
Again with the Pool Party thing, the only thing they publicly say they learned is that they should have put a meter on the client so players could see their progress instead of, I dunno, not hypocritically requiring otherwise broke players to buy RP and spend it on strangers in order to have a chance to reach a top level goal that would otherwise have been impossible to reach?
Impetual3 votesTo be fair, if Riot hasn't already planned another event for 2015 at this point, it probably isn't going to happen.
Assuming Riot plans their events a few months in advance, and Riot is still spending time just analyzing the Bilgewater event in order to plan their next event, which will probably take months to develop...
The answer to the OPs question is almost definitely: **YES! This Will Be the Only Event in 2015, Provided Riot Doesn't Already Have Another Event Ready to Go in the Next Few Months! **Unless a miracle happens and Riot has already started to produce content that Riot staff have led us to believe is non-existent.
In which case we could assume Story & Art related Rioters would already be in the know about the new content and the potential release dates.
Although he doesn't say it outright, Bioluminescence's comments imply that Riot is still gathering info on the Bilgewater event before planning the next event. If this is the case, it's more than likely we won't see any more events in 2015.
As much as I appreciate the Rioter Bioluminescence comments (seriously, it's nice to have a Rioter willing to talk to us on these boards even if he can't answer specific questions...) ... but unless he knows something we don't, the answer to this question is almost certainly yes, there will be no more lore events, at least on the scale of the Bilgewater event...unless Riot is hiding it from us on purpose.
No idea why Bioluminescence is tiptoeing around giving us actual answers.
RiotBioluminescence7 votesAlthough he doesn't say it outright, Bioluminescence's comments imply that Riot is still gathering info on the Bilgewater event before planning the next event. If this is the case, it's more than likely we won't see any more events in 2015.
As much as I appreciate the Rioter Bioluminescence comments (seriously, it's nice to have a Rioter willing to talk to us on these boards even if he can't answer specific questions...) ... but unless he knows something we don't, the answer to this question is almost certainly yes, there will be no more lore events, at least on the scale of the Bilgewater event...unless Riot is hiding it from us on purpose.
No idea why Bioluminescence is tiptoeing around giving us actual answers.
Hey, Impetual.
First thing - as you might remember from your thread, I'm not on a directly League related team, so while I hear some secret things to do with events and such, I am not privy to a LOT of stuff over there. I.e. I get surprised all the time too. I don't know the answer - which is why I can't give an answer.
Secondly, I'm a 'she' - not a 'he' :) Just for future reference.
Impetual1 votesI'm sorry for being confused about your gender on an online forum. I made an assumption that made an ass out of you and me. Mostly me.
My bad.
I realize that I used to assume most Rioters had inside information on the games direction. Apparently that isn't the case as we don't have a SINGLE Rioter willing to actively respond to Retcon changes.
@Riot Bioluminescence, I sorry I assumed you knew more about the game's Lore development than the average player.
As a Rioter I assumed you knew a lot of stuff we most players don't.
I guess Riot doesn't trust its Rioter's as much as I thought if they are left in the dark like us.Well, at least it's fair!
Centuros3 votesAnother question: will it be an actual EVENT, or just "here, have a new map skin for a week or two"?
sp4412 votesDoubtful. This will probably be the only event, and will probably retcon the entire Bilgewater roster to make them more gener- I mean, give them depth.
Why? Because that's what happened the past three years.