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The reason why people are so upset that characters are being drafted to the Vastaya.

GenoXx·Apr 10, 2017·4 votes·1,280 views

Because without a doubt, it does indeed, make a character less distinctive.

You won't be able to wonder what kind of race another new champion is, if they have animal-like features, because of this overhaul. Anyone who have even the smallest resemblance to a wild creature is automatically going to be thought as a Vastaya, regardless if there are different kinds. Nami being what we would call Mirai does hold too much meaning when you can simply call her a vastaya. What would be the point?

As one yes, mirai, but overall is included to some magical race apparently all around the world of runeterra. This is where the distinction ends. She's not her own anymore, she's just a vastaya that lives underwater. And it kinda kills it for everything. I'd be pretty upset too. It sounds really rushed and lazy on Riot's part.

Let's say urgot has just been drafted to Zaun simply because he has chemtech augments like the viginauts in Zaun. Reason why? Because he looks like one, therefor he should be a Zaunite instead. The whole Noxus part can be severed and make him full Zaunite. How would people feel about that? Understand why fans are upset.

And I fear it doesn't end there. Aatrox is suppose to be a part of an ancient race called the darkin, that has also been destroyed. Weapons can't be races no matter how much you try. "The horrible **sentient ** weapons known os the Darkin" Why would you completely take that away........ They are just objects that have some conscience. I feel like these recent lore changes are the worse turn on Riot's part.

41 Comments

SharjoApr 10, 20177 votes

You won't be able to wonder (well, except in a special case), but you will KNOW now just what the hell they are. The vastaya aren't a race. The tribes are the races. Being vastaya is the element that ties these things together such that they don't exist as weird anomalies for no reason other than "we wanted a champion that looked like a bird woman, so we made up a race". It builds history, allows for narrative cohesion, and opens up further opportunities to make cool things, like new weird anthro champions that aren't just plopped in to the world for the sake of having that champion.

GenoXxApr 10, 20172 votes

....?

So it's too hard to just add, "There is a harpy race in the mountains of Ionia."

Instead of " There are harpy like beings in the mountains of Ionia that are born like just about 40% of wild life on Runeterra?" I mean I understand why they did it, but I as well of many others feel it wasn't the best choice. Tying everything together into instead of branching out those individuals seems very boring to me.

Weird anomalies? Come on now, you can create actual backstories for a characters race. Easily rengar could be the result of two types of species found in the jungles of the southern continent. It sounds really lazy of Riot's part to just make all the weird characters the same thing.

RalanrApr 10, 20176 votes

After awhile people would probably just categorize a lot of magical races into one category for simplicity sake. That's one reason (among other things) why we have mammals, reptiles, amphibians, marsupials, etc.

A harpy is still a harpy just like a wolf is still a wolf. It is also a Vastaya just like how a wolf is also a mammal.

Why is this bad?

SharjoApr 10, 20176 votes

It's not hard, but it's weird because how does it even happen? Where did they come from? Why do they exist? Just because isn't a compelling narrative reason. The vastaya offer a unified origin to a few champions and their individual races that make them part of the wider world instead of just existing for the sake of it.

DrCyanideApr 10, 20175 votes

Aatrox is suppose to be a part of an ancient race called the darkin, that has also been destroyed. Weapons can't be races no matter how much you try. "The horrible sentient weapons known os the Darkin" Why would you completely take that away........ They are just objects that have some conscience.

People have speculated that the Darkin were sentient weapons for years, you're acting like that being made cannon is some sort of surprise. Someone even went so far to speculate that with the Darkin being the living weapons themselves it makes Demonblade Tryndamere not some random one-off, but actually a version of Future Tryndamere, where Aatrox has succeeded in making him the wielder of a Darkin (potentially himself).

That's way cooler than just being another 1 out of the 30 or so races one-off races that currently are in League.

GenoXxApr 10, 20172 votes

Well no, because what Riot introduced them as, was a race.

It's not about fan speculations and theories, those don't play a part here anymore. It's what riot is making canon. And making that canon, imo, isn't the best choice at all. Whose Aatrox the person or the sword, a literally solid question to ask now.

RalanrApr 10, 20176 votes

The sword imo. Which feels more interesting than a race of winged horned beings.

DrCyanideApr 10, 20173 votes

It's as legitimate a question today as it was 3 years ago when that post was made.

Our new source for saying Aatrox is the sword is a man who waxed poetic in everything other thing he said. It's easy to see him describing someone who was consumed with war as a sentient weapon, but he might have also been literal. We have the exact same problem with Aatrox's title, "The Darkin Blade". It could be just be a way to say he's a swordsman, or it could literally mean he's the blade.

In both cases we can second guess and argue which is right, but we won't know without a better source.

GenoXxApr 10, 20171 votes

Until riot makes it canon. This is the true decider.

DrCyanideApr 10, 20171 votes

If the Demonblade Tryndamere theory is right, we might get another hint about the Darkin soon.

The leak which mentioned Xayah and Rakan and Cosmic Reaper Master Yi also mentioned two skins that might be relevant - Demonblade Yasuo and Angelblade Riven. It would be very interesting to see what else might come out around that time or be hidden in the background of their splashes.

GreenLoreApr 10, 20174 votes

1.We don't even know if the guy in the lore piece knows what he is writing about,he could be simply mistaken.

2.Aatrox has a living sword,so even if the darkin have the form of weapons they are still alive.

3.They could also be just a race of spirits that are bound to weapons.Just because spirits aren't entirely physical doesn't mean they can't have their own races.

SithesisLordApr 10, 20171 votes

You do know that them being referred to as sentient weapons is simply to explain that they were likely created by a higher power to be used and abused, right?

Sentient weapons is a metaphor, as far as i understand.

RalanrApr 10, 20174 votes

I understand the problem, I just think it's a rather petty complaint. Who a champion is is more important than what the champion is. What they are is an important factor, but only if it does impact who they are. And being Vastayan can still impact characters with identity arcs the same way (talking about Ahri).

Riot has already shown that they aren't fully interested in making a characters race a one of a kind thing with the introduction of Ivern. Both he and Maokai are tree people, but sharing that quality doesn't really take away too much from them as individual characters beyond "We're living tree people"

Plus Ahri was always a member of a species. Before it was more demonic/fae. Now there's an actual name.

GenoXxApr 10, 20171 votes

So it's what's more important now? I don't see how nami's source of life is 70% magic when she lives deep underwater. Inb4 yo tell me there's magic deep in the ocean somewhere. If they aren't interested, then why make this update to begin with/

RalanrApr 10, 20172 votes

"Runeterra, that's basically Magic Earth" -Sol.

What makes you think this update is a result of disinterest?

GenoXxApr 10, 20171 votes

That just makes everything stupid if you're implying the whole planet is just one ball of magic. If that's the case, that makes me disinterested with the lore.

RalanrApr 10, 20173 votes

Well get disinterested because that's more or less the result of a magic wide world war (if I had to guess).

What's exactly wrong with magic being everywhere? Even if it's really subtle?

GenoXxApr 10, 20171 votes

Because according to Riot, magic is supposed to be really rare...and you're telling me the irony of that is it's everywhere. literally. So anything can happen because magic.

RalanrApr 10, 20173 votes

Magic users are rare. Magical creatures don't exactly seem that rare.

Tesla EffectApr 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Magic users are rare. Magical creatures don't exactly seem that rare.

Depends on what you refer to magic users and where. For example, almost every Piltover or Zaunite person that uses Hextech is in a way a magic user (also a tech user at the same time), they just most likely are not inately magical and cant project magic from within themselves. Some magic users of this type are only magic users cause of magical artifacts or creations (Example being Ezreal and Jayce). Actual magical individuals that have no need for magical items are even rarer (Example being Lux and Karma)....it seems magical users are born or formed into one by the natural magics ether in their bloodline (aka Harry Potter style), or have been changed do to magicks around them.

Vastaya may have originated in this way, beings highy in tune with natural magics, so much so that it not only gave them magical abilities, but has also shaped their very appearances in a very magical way which is not bound by certain real world limits (like the example of a half animal half humanoid existence, while still being able to even function with these two natures).

SharjoApr 10, 20174 votes

Just to add to the vastaya and magic bit; they were once far more plentiful in ages past. There are still many vastaya tribes, but beyond Ionia, a land that's very important for them historically, they're much rarer.

SharjoApr 10, 20175 votes

Why though? It's a fantasy world. Magic is present and always has been. What's the issue?

GenoXxApr 10, 20171 votes

It's a fanstasy world.

And with that as an excuse I totally understand that Riot is going to keep shaping the world into something more ridiculous. If it is indeed that Runeterra is just a planet made of magic hence why so many things happen to it like so. That would make stop indulging in the lore of LoL, because anything can happen due to the whole planet being sufficient of magic, likely the beginning of new things but more of a cheesy mmo story

RalanrApr 10, 20175 votes

More ridiculous? Yordles used to walk the streets of Piltover and were once aliens.

You're complaining about things being more ridiculous than that?

GreenLoreApr 10, 20174 votes

You know that it is far less plausible if there were a bunch of human-animal hybrids just by coincdence... Them being magical in origin does make much more sense.

GreenLoreApr 10, 20174 votes

{quoted}

You won't be able to wonder what kind of race another new champion is, if they have animal-like features, because of this overhaul. Anyone who have even the smallest resemblance to a wild creature is automatically going to be thought as a Vastaya, regardless if there are different kinds.

So what about? Azir Cassiopeia Elise Hecarim Khazix Nasus Renekton Skarner TahmKench Twitch Warwick

They are all animal-like,yet none of them are Vastaya. Even if people might supsect a new champ to be a Vastaya,there is no guarantee for them to be one as there are enough who aren't Vastaya.

Nami being what we would call Mirai does hold too much meaning when you can simply call her a vastaya. What would be the point?

Before she was a Marai who was part of the human/animal-hybrids in the world Now she is a Marai who is part of a specific kind of human/animal-Hybrids of the world. So where is the big difference here?

GenoXxApr 10, 20172 votes

Those champions have been explained what they are though..........................

The big difference if that she isn't a race specially from the ocean, instead is a branch off of magical beings in Ionia....

GreenLoreApr 10, 20172 votes

She is still from a race specially fromt he ocean. Its just that the ancestors of said race came from Ionia.

Tesla EffectApr 10, 20173 votes

The name Runeterra always implied that the place had some deep ties with all types of magics....specifically runic magic of the World Runes, which have shaped not only countless wars between people, but the land, and some of its creatures (like the Dragons, which certain individuals of their race/s have World Rune shards in them....like Shyvanna, this is what gives dragons their elemental powers and this is why there are many different types of dragons....like the examples given on Summoners Rift with the many different Dragon types based on what family of dragons they belong to/ what world rune shard has been passed down in their families lineage).

Tesla EffectApr 10, 20172 votes

Because they dont understand the lore that is right in front of them, and they are too lazy to even give a bit of effort to understand it. They just look everything from a surface and judge it just from there.

Plus not: Nami is still a Marai (humanoid fish race), but she is also a Vastaya (name for the large taxonomy that includes a large amount of other chimeric races that share a common origins....some dont have a special race name, they just call themselves Vastaya).

Picture it in through the example of nationality: You have the Slavs (in this case they would be Vastaya), some have specific names, cultures and locations where they live (Bulgarians, Serbs, Croatians, Polish, Ukrainian, Russian...) but they are all considered Slavs.....some dont have a specific special name of their nationality, and they considere themselves just Slavs, even though Slavs is a general name for a large number of different nationalities sharing a very common root.

GenoXxApr 10, 20171 votes

I see the lore very clearly, I don't agree on Riot's decision for doing this.

BLACK REALM GODApr 10, 20171 votes

well... blame the people who kept asking "WHAT IS RENGAR?!?!?"

GenoXxApr 10, 20171 votes

That doesn't mean get lazy about it. Rengar was in a totally different place then the chimeric beings in Ionia, particularly the jungles of the south continent. What, you're telling me he drinks the magic of the jungle to survive? That's what Vastayans are right? beings who rely on magic to survive...

Tesla EffectApr 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

That doesn't mean get lazy about it. Rengar was in a totally different place then the chimeric beings in Ionia, particularly the jungles of the south continent. What, you're telling me he drinks the magic of the jungle to survive? That's what Vastayans are right? beings who rely on magic to survive...

Vastaya have originated in Ionia, but have then spread across all of Runeterra....this is why Rengar was not born in Ionia, cause his tribe settled somewhere else. Due to specializations regarding the place each Vastaya race and tribe lived in, you would see drastic differences of the humanoid fish like beings like the Marai are and the Humanoid felines that Rengar comes from.

I find the Vastaya taxonomy to solve the problem of the many unknown chimeric beings problem that was an issue with League before. It helps in finding a common origin for many races though a shared family tree, which is more rooted from natural magics, then regular evolution that real world races are accostomed to. This is why Vastaya can be vastly different in adaptation while still being part of the same Vastaya tree.

GenoXxApr 10, 20171 votes

So they went underwater too?

Tesla EffectApr 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

So they went underwater too?

Some Vastaya when from their original place of origin and settled somewhere (possibly Guardians Sea) and have adapted to such an extent that they are now humanoid fish (of course all of this rapid evolution/shapesifting is because of magical means). And so the new race of Vastaya, called the Marai were created.

GenoXxApr 10, 20171 votes

Yes, all the weird things of Runeterra are the results of magic, nothing natural. Wow.

Tesla EffectApr 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Yes, all the weird things of Runeterra are the results of magic, nothing natural. Wow.

Not all weird things are magical in origins, but the really weird things are. Things that differenciate whats real world natural, from magical natural. Its what makes this a fantasy setting, otherwise it would not make it that fantastical.

BLACK REALM GODApr 10, 20171 votes

i agree with not being lazy, but the reality is this is a game with 134 champions and soon to be 136 with most if not all of those champions being largely from unknown backgrounds and community that are non-interactive with the rest of the world.

if you're not noxian or demacian you HAVE no story. the shadow isle have a small story, but none of it interacts with the other new champs.

the animal creatures were the worst offenders of this fact with kindred and bard being at the forefront. (we still dont know what bard is)

so the easiest way to give those champions a common relation and to leave room for more champions with animal parts is to just say they're chimeras and have individual tribes that are unique.

in a way it's smart since there's probably a closet furry in the art department that spends all of his/her days drawing up animal softcore so now they've got a chance to make characters too and it wont just be the weird depressed guy making all the champs.

you give 20 people a notebook and 1 of them is bound to be a closet furry. especially if they freak out when you touch their pens.

Tesla EffectApr 10, 20171 votes

For example, Swains transmutation abilities into a giant chimeric bird was never really explained, and it sorta clashes with what Noxus is established to be (felt out of place). Having him have some connections to the Vastaya (ether through descendants or by forceful blood transfusion) adds to what was previously vague or unknown (which would have previously been explained through an even more convoluded one of a time thing specially for him cause that was the example of the old lore and how it functioned). It doesnt take away from his character (he is still Swain), but it adds to what was already there (now the dude has some tangible relations to Ionia and beyond).

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