Ashe and Sejuani are from a Nordic inspired warrior race. Sejuani swings around her ball and chain like it's nothing, so of course she should have larger shoulders. Ashe on the other hand, while she can remain thin, for the most part, her arms should be crazy toned. She is pulling at maybe a 20-40 lbs string at upwards of 6 times a second. Like, I get that it's a magic bow, but still, that's crazy.
Sexy Jack Rabbit12 votesIn the case of Ashe, No - Not really. Archery is an intensive sport, but not to the extent of creating extensive muscular growth. Let's have a look at Linda Ochoa, currently 8th in the compound Archery scene. http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Linda+Ochoa+Archery+World+Cup+2015+Stage+1+W6qyLTKSNe6l.jpg For the most part, she is not exceptionally ripped, her arms are definitely strong though. As far as Arm anatomy goes, Ashe's arms are pretty up to par of what an IRL Archery professionals arms would be like. Her body weight is disproportionate, but her arms are fine.
Sejuani on the otherhand yes, she should more then likely see an increase in muscle tone. Let's have a look at Olympic Ball chain thrower, Betty Heidler https://aos.iacpublishinglabs.com/question/aq/1400px-788px/much-hammer-hammer-throw-weigh_3c0505ad738481b9.jpg?domain=cx.aos.ask.com This woman is built like a brick truck. It's important to take into mind, For this woman to throw the Ball Chain ONCE, she is required to be built like this. Your average Ball Chain weighs up to 35lbs, and Sejuani's flail would be a LOT heavier that that and she's swinging that thing over 6 times a minute. (Betty is NOTHING but muscle btw.) https://dz0obzljr6jvm.cloudfront.net/media/image/ef/e1/cd/betty_heidler_galerie_2.jpg
(Don't Olympic athlete's make the funniest faces???)
Some might call it out as Betty's genetics, but that's not the case. This body type is consistent amongst intensive sport players, from Shotput, to Ball Chain to Javelin, these body types are consistent.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/13/6c/9f/136c9f95da7560f2f2ba058718b9463e.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f1/35/59/f135592f6aa72fa0bcf7a51b410d7211.jpg
It's also important to note, that unlike weightlifters, Olympics Athlete's bodies are made for function, not just for show.
TL;DR: Ashe's body is fine save for some body weight issues. Sejuani should be built a lot stockier however.
Màv11 votesAshe looks fine, you can see her muscles, they're just toned (Which is way more attractive than bulky muscles). You don't have to look ripped to have strong upperbody strength and she is probably in peak physical condition as well.
IcyPepper13 votesYou don't have to look ripped to have strong upperbody strength
Oh lawd no. From what I've learned, and while I'm no expert but I am somewhat of an athlete, there are two ends to the muscular spectrum: bulk and tone(?).
Bulky muscle is good for lifting and stuff, as well as short strikes. Boxers, for instance, will have some bulk (but not too much, mind you) and bodybuilders will have A LOT since bulk is basically their game.
Lean muscle is more along the lines of what Ashe has. Good strength, not great for physical confrontations, but most of all: agility. A body like Illaoi is terrible for archery, especially if you want to remain mobile while doing so.
I think Ashe is fine for the most part. There's only so much "tone" you can get before you start packing on the muscle mass, something Ashe in her career field can't do too much of.
Màv3 votesOh lawd no. From what I've learned, and while I'm no expert but I am somewhat of an athlete, there are two ends to the muscular spectrum: bulk and tone(?).
Bulky muscle is good for lifting and stuff, as well as short strikes. Boxers, for instance, will have some bulk (but not too much, mind you) and bodybuilders will have A LOT since bulk is basically their game.
Lean muscle is more along the lines of what Ashe has. Good strength, not great for physical confrontations, but most of all: agility. A body like Illaoi is terrible for archery, especially if you want to remain mobile while doing so.
I think Ashe is fine for the most part. There's only so much "tone" you can get before you start packing on the muscle mass, something Ashe in her career field can't do too much of.
Good info, I used a poor choice of words there. Didn't mean to make it sound like she had tons of upperbody, I was referring to her being Agile mostly. Her body type is what I would expect of a archer and I don't know why people expect her to look buffed.
IcyPepper3 votesDon't worry, I was disagreeing with you--I was more like adding to it?
I'm a martial artist and you got to work with your body type. Smaller limbs get more "oomph" from bulk, as they can tank more hits and hit harder, and longer limbs benefit from more agility for faster and more numerous strikes.
Basically the difference between Tryndamere and Ashe here.
You're right on the mark, dude :)
ChaoticPinecone3 votesI'm not qualified as an expert, but I like to think I know a lot about this topic. Bulk and strength often have very little correlation. Of course, there is a baseline you have to think about - someone who lifts crazy weights isnt going to look like someone who never lifted before in their lives. However, once you get to peak athleticism, it all depends on how you train.
Bodybuilders train for hypertrophy. Their workout regimen (and diets and drugs) are tailored for one thing - to get big. They arent the fastest nor are they the strongest. They just train for size and aesthetics. Its actually difficult to find bodybuilders, or bodybuilder-esque physiques that are actually "athletic".
Boxers, on the other hand, train for strength, speed, and accuracy. Depending on your weight class, there is a different method of training - lightweights tend to go for speed and swift strikes, heavyweights tend to go for overall amount of force. Heavyweights tend to be bulky because of who and how they need to fight. They dont mind having a bit more mass, since mass helps insulate your frame from punches and/or provides more leverage behind a punch. If youre bulky and fast, youre basically a once-in-a-lifetime heavyweight fighter (think Mike Tyson).
Tone is less about muscle and more about bodyfat percentage. Again, there is a baseline here - you need some muscle to look toned, or else youre just going to look skinny and scrawny. However, whether youre 6 ft 200 or 6ft 250, getting down to 5% bodyfat will make both people toned. Muscle mass actually looks very similar, whether its oriented for strength, speed, or size.
This is a picture of Long Qingquan, who destroyed World Records in the Clean and Snatch at the Olympics in Rio: https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2016/08/587142848.jpg?w=620&h=413&crop=1
Would you expect him, a 5'1 inch, 120 pound male to be able to pick up 375 pounds and lift it above his head? He looks like he works out, but he doesnt look super muscular or anything. Its because while he is one of the strongest people in the world, his training is tailored for strength and speed. You dont need excessive bulk to lift heavy weights.
To the post topic, Ashe's body is supposed to be nimble. She isnt interested in hypertrophy or gaining muscle mass - she primarily relies on strength and speed. Yes, Ashe has lean muscle, but you shouldnt associate that size with strength or speed.
If you look at some of the top women archers in the world, they arent bulky either. Choi Mi-sun is currently considered the best female archer in the world. She is 5'6, 120 pounds.
http://www.theasian.asia/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/MEX15_B15_7618-L.jpg
She isnt excessively bulky, nor does she need to be.
Sexy Jack Rabbit3 votesIt's pretty personal what kind of body types people find attractive. I don't like skinny people for instance. I'd much rather someone built up, as opposed to a rib showcase.
Màv3 votesIt's pretty personal what kind of body types people find attractive. I don't like skinny people for instance. I'd much rather someone built up, as opposed to a rib showcase.
There's a difference between being skinny and underweight. I like toned/skinny girls (Ashe/Katarina are good examples), as long as they're within their healthy weight area is all that really matters.
SteelMankind7 votesI like the idea of Sej being like a warrior, but I've always imagined Ashe to be like tribal nobility rather than a harsh, muscular warrior-queen
Rolling Girl6 votesSejuani being Illaoi levels of buff would definitely make sense, but Ashe feels more fitting being so tiny, as a squishy ADC, and especially one who focuses so much on scouting and kiting
Decrit5 votesI think Ashe is fine, maybe is not completely realistic but well, this is a fantasy game, some design are stretched on purpose.
Ralanr4 votesI can give Ashe a pass mainly because I probably wouldn't notice a toned body for archery in this game unless I was actively looking for it.
Sejuani imo could be a bit bulkier, but I'll just have to be satisfied with her fan art for that.
Placentas3 votesI've seen threads like this before and I think Riot should really pay attention. I don't think either needs a drastic change, but some obvious beef and muscle tone should happen.
IMO Sej would look good in between what she is now and Illaoi. As big as Illaoi would be too much, but in between keeps her enough of the same but makes her more visibly strong in appearance.
A Superb Villain3 votesI cannot pass any judgement with certainty on Ashe, but Sejuani a little beefing up.
Warlord Dienekes3 votes20-40 lb draw-weight? What is she using, a kid's bow?
Come on now, that bow is almost as tall as she is. The closest parallel would be an English longbow, those things had draw weights of 80-110 lbs. They needed it to have a chance of piercing through some weak points in armor. They were so heavy that when archeologists looked at the corpses from the Mary Rose they could tell which ones were archers by the way the muscles developed causing permanent disfigurement in their skeletons.
If you wanted to make Ashe look realistic, she should look lopsided, with one bulging shoulder and a twisted spine. But, this is a fantasy game and I don't think Riot really wants to make one of their poster children look like that.
ChaoticPinecone4 votesWow, hold on there.
English Longbows are some of the least technologically advanced bows out there. Youre talking about bows that are 1500-1000 years old. Modern longbows hit around 50lbs in drawweight.
And its not like Recurve bows are any shorter than longbows. Recurve bows are named "recurve" because of the way the limbs curve back (in sort of a W shape instead of a C shape, if you can picture the bow on its side). They are still just as tall as the archer. Some of the best archers in the world, both men and women, use around 45-55 pound draws on Recurve bows.
Warlord Dienekes3 votesSure, but those aren't war bows. (Also, English Longbows are only around 700-800 years old)
Modern archers aren't trying to get their arrow through an opponent's metal armor. And their bows are using a bunch of modern tech and multi-stringing to get the design as easy and functional as possible.
Ashe is using a piece of wood with a single string on it. The bow on the base skin doesn't even have a recurve.
ChaoticPinecone4 votesHuh - i didnt notice that Ashe doesnt have a recurve. But looking at her base skin, it looks like the bow itself and the string is made of magic ice. Funnily enough, her Warden skin doesnt even have a string (I give Project a pass because its super-tech).
I was more pointing out that calling a 40 pound bow a "kids bow" is kinda disrespectful, especially when the best archers are using just slightly above that. I mean, people arent really fighting with bows anymore, but you generally need a 50 pound bow to take down Elk or Deer.
And Longbows and Recurves are still fairly simple bows. Nobody really uses 100 pound draws anymore - youre talking about composite bows with multi-stringing and such, when a 10 pound draw puts out as much force as a 100 pound draw on a Recurve. But a 40 pound draw is still a 40 pound draw, no matter what type of bow youre using.
Warlord Dienekes3 votesFair enough, it was meant more as a joke by how they're underselling the draw weight of an actual medieval longbow. Those things had a ridiculously high draw weight, because they needed them to actually work.
It wasn't really supposed to be an insult to modern archers.
GreenLore3 votesSejuani could need a bit more musclemass,but then again its not like you can see her body in her classic skin anyway and she doesn't need to be Illaoi-levels of buff.
Orangesilk2 votesIf she were Illaoi levels of buff her boar would DIE. I can't imagine any animal being ridden by Illaoi. "They break too easily".
GreenLore2 votesWhat if they switch the boar with 
?
Big Lincoln3 votesyes plz
muscle babes ftw
Ralanr2 votesMy man!
Escheton2 votesAshe looks frail. Like a snowflake. I think she is supposed too. (as in, what they intended with her)
RFPSHBYQl72 votes
I don't see any muscle maybe because his arms are covered but that hammer sure looks heavy. And he fcking jumps with it and swings it around and stuff...
Asayake 5150glow1 votes[{quoted}](name=Darkest Death,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=cp7IpERv,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2017-03-31T12:44:51.428+0000)
Forsaken Jayce disagrees
robotgame2 votesoooh i like me some strong ladies, i support OP's post. make 
and 
stronk
Maximum Morde2 votesNoty. Hot chicks only pls, this isn't Mass Effect Andromeda.
junglerboy162 votesAshe is an archer, it makes sense to not be a bigger, bulkier character because that's not the kind of athleticism her combat style requires or optimizes for.
Sejuani should be built like f@@@ing Illaoi though, flinging a giant ice mace around like a toy would make you bulk up like a power lifter.
Hauling Ashe2 votesAshe is totally fine as is. She's royalty and a "swift" (LOL, that movement speed) archer, not a bulky shield maiden on the frontlines.
I can understand your point about Sej, though. Then again, this is fantasy, and tits are nice.
ForgottenLuck1 votesI think Ash is fine as she currently is as I think they designed her to seem a bit on the weak side for her will and determination to unite Freljord seem stronger, as for Sejuani I wouldn't mind if they gave her a bit more bulk, though maybe not Overwatch Zarya bulk I won't as I don't think it would suit her incredibly well I won't argue much if Riot decides to change her like that.
Chromatic Eagle1 votesIf you're asking for more body diversity, then sure. If you're asking for a Fiora facelift...
Would you prefer Sejuani to have Illaoi's size? Just curious.
LunSeiSleidee1 votesEh, the archetype of archers is to look lithe and all. But Sejuani, on the other hand? I wish she looked more ripped.
Castanean1 votesFor Ashe, I'd say it makes a lot of sense for her to be relatively lithe. As an archer, her main skills should be arm-strength and precision, and you don't need to be super muscular to have good strength in your arms.
Sejuani on the other hand; She should probably be larger. Or at least a bit broader. Compared to what she used to look like, current sej is a massive improvement, but I wouldn't mind her being a bit larger. Not Illaoi size, but a smidge larger than she currently is.
I'd personally also like to know why the designers felt it necessary to leave cleavage in Sej's design when they changed her from "Bikini Cavalry" to "Badass Warlord". Like, I get it, people like tits, but to me at least that opening in Sej's outfit feels really... Out of place. She really doesn't feel like the kind of character to show cleavage to me.
Asayake 5150glow1 votesKinda related, but at least Irelia has an excuse lol
A Bad Nasus1 votesLogic doesn't exist in league lol.
Aeró1 votesvayne should have scoliosis or something from all that tumbling around.
