I know this has been rehashed a near infinite number of times, so I'll be brief: are there any LGBT champions in League? If there are, why have you elected to keep their sexuality a mystery when cisgendered, heterosexual couples are not only dating (Ez, Lux), but also have been/are currently married (Lucian & Senna, Ashe & Tryndamere)? Are there societies that are open to LGBT people, or are some cultures in Runeterra still backwards?
AdanYEva14 votesgo to reddit to cry about your insecurity issues
NahDogSolRahn14 votesLook, I'm all for the gays, hermaphrodites, and those who perform drag, BUT when when you term things such as heterosexuality, being the gender that comes with what's between your legs, and average marage as "backwards", you get annoying and you get hate. You are the reason people think that the LGBT community are bullies.
Omnem Occido2 votesIt was more about those being the only accepted forms of those sexual preferences and gender identities that makes them backwards. Heterosexuality is the most common normality, but backwards societies see them as the only normalities. That is what I was referring to as backwards.
Vesuvias4 votes[{quoted}](name=Omnem Occido,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=c8EHecEV,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-12-21T21:58:57.166+0000)
It was more about those being the only accepted forms of those sexual preferences and gender identities that makes them backwards. Heterosexuality is the most common normality, but backwards societies see them as the only normalities. That is what I was referring to as backwards.
Again, you are asserting a narrative that they are the only ones accepted without giving any proof of that being the case. It is quite an accusation.
You again repeat the use of the term backwards to craft an opposition that fits a narrative that you assert is reality but has no basis in reality.
You need a narrative that better aligns with reality.
Omnem Occido2 votesA society that oppresses homosexuality is what most people, especially in modern Western countries, would consider "backwards". If that doesn't fit into your definition of backwards, I apologize for the miscommunication. I never said that there were places in Runeterra that are backwards, rather, I asked the question, "What if they were?" If you don't want to hear about a champion who has had to overcome a negative situation in which they were criticized for their sexuality, then that's fine, that champion's lore was not made for you. However, I feel that, myself included, there are many people who would like to get to know a champion with that background for many reasons. Perhaps they have been through a similar situation, and can relate to the story. We play characters because they are fun. We love characters because they speak to us. If, in the interest of making more champions that reach more audiences, a character were a homosexual who dealt with a society that hated him for his or her sexuality, but overcame it, among other things, and that speaks to homosexual men and women who have been through similar situations.
Vesuvias3 votesQuick questions:
Of all of the champion lore, which lores are actually relatable to anyone?
_Of all of the Champion lore, which ones feature sexuality as a key or core motivation?_* (*Hint: Lucian is not motivated by his sexuality. He is motivated by loss)
If you are asking for characters to be more relatable to people, then sure, I think many people would agree that some of the backgrounds need more fleshing out and details that make them more individual and unique from one another.
Could one of them fit into the LGBTQ+-X group? Sure.
Is that what you are asking for? I don't know.
So far it seems that you are asking for two things: -That a character be homosexual -That a character's sexuality be more than a plot device and instead be his driving motivation
Would there be some issues with some people if there were a homosexual character? Sure. But I, and the majority wouldn't care. There may even be support for it.
Would there be a major backlash from the gaming community and the governments of other regions if the character being homosexual was a driving motivation and central to the character? Oh yes. Without a doubt.
I believe this is where a lot of the "hate" people from the LGBTQ+-X community get comes from. People can generally accept the first thing, or at the very least not be so bothered about it. The second part is where you not only lose people, you alienate them to the idea.
What you are asking for is not only a tough concept for Riot to logistically, legally, and conceptually do, but is something that many people feel doesn't even really have a good example of outside of games like LoL. Riot draws a lot of inspiration for characters from other sources, and there has yet to be one like you are describing that Riot could really work and mold into a champion.
Maximum Morde10 votesWho cares? It's a game where a little midget throws a flaming bear down your throat.
Chaotic Reks3 votesfrom now on, this is how i'm going to explain league to people
Omnem Occido1 votesAnd if it's going to remain as simple and surface deep as that, then fine, I just think that adding some actual depth would make for more engaging characters.
Vesuvias2 votesThey have depth. It is just not the depth that you want them to have. Not everyone likes the same stories.
I like Tetris. It doesn't have a story. Is it homophobic, sexist, trans-phobic, and misogynist because it lacks LGBTQ+-X representations?
Sexuality doesn't come up for the majority of characters in the majority of stories. Neither does their gender, generally. People assume a gender. You could very well imagine that any number of characters in a movie or TV show are transgendered or dressed in drag. It shouldn't and wouldn't change the story.
IcyPepper1 votesI like Tetris. It doesn't have a story. Is it homophobic, sexist, trans-phobic, and misogynist because it lacks LGBTQ+-X representations?
I like you.
Ralanr4 votesI wasn't aware a champion's sexuality was so important to their gameplay.
But if I had to speculate, I'd say Piltover and Zuan don't give two shits about who you sleep with. As long as you love SCIENCE then I think you're good.
Omnem Occido1 votesNone of the lore really matters to their gameplay. I mean, what is the League right now? A loosely connected assortment of powerful entities who fight on random battlegrounds for meaningless victories? It's all about speaking to the player, engaging them in a rich background and creating connections between the player and the champion. A homosexual character with qualms about society around them would speak to a homosexual person going through similar things. Of course, there are many other means to connecting to a player, but sexuality is incredibly important to a lot of people.
Vesuvias2 votesGo watch some Necrit on youtube. A characters gameplay is often related to their lore.
Sexuality is important to a lot of people. True.
So to get this straight: You are asking Riot to create a character that would relate to people who care about sexuality, play not only games but LoL, and make up less than 1% of the general population when relating to non-cisgendered people, and less than ~10% (depending on studies surveys and sources) for homosexuals.
Meanwhile... Linux users make up a solid 2% of the gaming market and cant get a client.
Back on topic: You're upset that toxic feminism has not infiltrated LoL.
Get over it.
Omnem Occido3 votesWhere did I say feminism, or mention that in the least? Statistically speaking, if 123 characters exist, it would stand to reason that, given the percentage of people that are homosexual, you would imagine that 10-12 characters would be homosexual, and 4-5 characters would be bi-sexual, and at least 1 would be transsexual. But this game fails to acknowledge homosexuality, continuing a longstanding tradition in video games of homophobia. They are all about making Lux and Ezreal, or Ashe and Tryndamere, or Gangplank and Illaoi, but God forbid they make it Vi and Caitlyn or some other homosexual character pairing. It's the same crap that made people wait 5-6 years to see a black champion.
Vesuvias3 votesThe terminology/rhetoric that you are using basically shows you to either be a third-wave feminist or fresh out of a gender studies course. If not, then I'm sorry, but you really need to work on how you pose your position.
As for your numbers... you really needs to read more research than what you find on tumblr blogs and what your very progressive minded education has given you.
4-5 characters at most would be homosexual. For easy math that would be 3 women and 2 men. Depending on the study that could easily be as low as 2 women and 1 man, which if you read through all of this thread would mean we are right on target with Vi, Cait, and Taric. (Sure, non official. Blah.)
As for Bi-Sexual, that would be lower. Maybe 1? 2?
You really need to research this more. The only studies showing numbers as high as would support your count are almost completely done in major metropolitan areas and no where else.
Oh, and I quit playing LoL for a while before I heard about Lucian. I never thought they were intentionally not making one, but something wasn't right after all that time and that many champions.
Omnem Occido4 votesSo much hate. Look, I understand that it's not important to the gameplay, but with the exception of the "Side Quests" that occasionally pop up in game because two people just happened to pick Kha and Rengar or Ashe and Lissandra, etc., the lore is entirely unnecessary to the game. I mean, we don't even have a why for the League anymore. It's just a bunch of odd characters of importance fighting on 1 of 4 maps we assume exist on the same plane of being. The lore doesn't matter to the gameplay, but fleshing out the identities of the champions adds a certain amount of connection to them. If sexuality has nothing to do with any of their lore because homosexuality and transgender are as commonplace as heterosexuality, then that's fine, but in my opinion the lack of personal sexuality with these characters makes them seem like they are single-minded fighters who kill stuff, eat, and then sleep. I understand that many of them are ambitious people with far ranging goals, but the lack of love in their lives makes it seem like they are all asexual, which is fine if some are but having all of them be asexual seems unlikely at best. All I want is to have a champion that speaks to me, someone who has romantic hopes and dreams, someone who goes off with family weighing in his or her heart, who has self-doubt and angst about their lives and lives of those whom they care for. The lore in League has become bland. The champions are a whitewash of characters with slightly different personalities: the power seeking archetype, the revenge seeking archetype, the risen dead archetype, the voracious predator archetype, the veteran archetype, and the justice seeking archetype. In those 6 categories, I can simply put all of the characters, with no outliers. Maybe sexuality is not the best of characteristics to start differentiating characters and giving them seperate personalities, but, honestly, I haven't heard any other ideas from Riot.
Ralanr1 votesThing is, sexuality is a touchy subject that is best not really delved into without being subtle. Plus Riot is still reworking the lore, so they haven't gotten to expand on a lot of characters yet.
Vesuvias2 votes[{quoted}](name=Omnem Occido,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=c8EHecEV,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2015-12-21T21:45:33.533+0000)
If sexuality has nothing to do with any of their lore because homosexuality and transgender are as commonplace as heterosexuality, then that's fine
I understand that many of them are ambitious people with far ranging goals.
All I want is to have a champion that speaks to me, someone who has romantic hopes and dreams, someone who goes off with family weighing in his or her heart, who has self-doubt and angst about their lives and lives of those whom they care for.
Maybe sexuality is not the best of characteristics to start differentiating characters and giving them seperate personalities, but, honestly, I haven't heard any other ideas from Riot.
I fixed your post for you. It was a little long winded.
Oh, and I can name a few characters that do not fit into your 6 categories. Fizz is a great example. Wukong is another.
Trundle used to be close to the kind of character you are describing, but he was the victim of a bad retcon.
VictoryDance963 votesThe relationship thing is really just for boards... there are technically no "official" things going on between champions... you are just reading too many fanfictions!
ModWulf Helhammer2 votesWell, except for Senna and Lucian and Ashe and Tryndamere (and formally Illaoi and Gangplank)
BladeSteel2 votesand lux and ezreal.
BastionKross1 votesAt least as far as the old lore, the Ashe/Trynd thing was a political marriage, not one of love or attraction.
Which is only there because Tryndamere is one of the highest ranking Rioters, and his wife's name is Ashley.
Ice Weasel X1 votesAt least as far as the old lore, the Ashe/Trynd thing was a political marriage, not one of love or attraction.
Which is only there because Tryndamere is one of the highest ranking Rioters, and his wife's name is Ashley.
Actually, if old interviews are to be believed, the Ashe/Tryndamere marriage lore was written before they found out Ashe was named after Marc's wife, Ashley.
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2100205
Flamedra: Is your wife's name Ashe? Tryndamere: It's actually "Ashley", and the funny thing is that our creative design team had Ashe and Trynd marry because they both were from the north and had no idea that she was actually named after my wife (Ashe was one of the first characters we made). So it was fate!
Unward492 votesPretty sure Cait/Vi is a thing.
Unward491 votesftfy [slayer-jinx-wink]
Cmon, Vi calls cait "cupcake" in game. And she fists things. It's a thing.
iHerring1 votesGood point, and considering the status of lore around here, it may as well be 100% Rito canon approved.
I remember the first time I saw Officer Vi's baton twirl recall animation... I was even playing Officer Cait... It's times like this I wish I knew how to do that ASCII 'if you know what I mean' face.
L Rayquaza1 votes( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) this one?
iHerring1 votesBingo, and I do mean bingo ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Omnem Occido2 votesIn fanfic alone. Riot has never confirmed a non-heterosexual relationship.
GreenLore2 votesAs far as i know the problem is that LoL is played in a lot of countries and some of these are rather homophobic,so they can't include a character with that without risking getting their game banned in these countries or having to rewrite the sexuality of the character for these countries,which would create canon-problems when looking at the character.
Also while there are a few characters who are known to be attracted to the opposite sex,its not like there are really that many(at least not if you look at the champion roster as a whole) and even then its technically still possible that these characters are bisexual.
ModKnightsKemplar2 votesThey rarely show sexuality of champs, outside of a few allusions to relationships/crushes. It goes both ways.
QuantumPanther2 votesFirst of all, Senna isn't a champion...she's a plot device that is supposed to be Lucian's driving force because they were MARRIED AND IN LOVE!! If Lucian had had a husband that he lost instead of a wife, it wouldn't make a difference. And I'm fairly certain that the Taric/Ezreal thing is at the very least fanon, which means that the fans believe it's a thing, even if it's not confirmed by Riot. In addition to all of this, forcing a sexuality onto people is counter to the LGBTQ+ community anyways, since we are purported to value everyone's respective identities. So to force a champion to be queer just for the sake of being queer goes against everything that we are supposed to be standing for, namely, the right of people to choose their own identities.
Omnem Occido2 votesThe idea that we shouldn't make an LGBTQ+ character because it forces a sexuality on them is one I don't think I can understand. It's not like a champion has will. In fact, who that champion is, whether it's a he or a she, what they believe in, it's all determined by the writer. It's like saying that it was wrong of J. K. Rowling to force Harry Potter to have a scar and for him to have to live with his aunt and uncle who borderline abused him. I'm sorry, take stabs at my idea all you want, but the idea that we need to protect a fictitious character from being labeled as something that they "aren't" is just ludicrous.
QuantumPanther1 votesThe good people on the creative team at Riot know how to put together a good and compelling character, which includes a strong personality. If they sat down and decided, I'm going to write a queer character, the process of coming up with a character that has a queer identity that isn't a walking, talking stereotype is going to be an almost impossible task. The champion is going to have to have something else that makes it tick, and being queer would be a side identity, to the point where it doesn't matter at all. If you were to force their queer identity into their story, into their lore, and into their gameplay identity (as all lore is somewhat tied to the gameplay identity and mechanic) how would that look. You don't force queer characters, just as you don't force any other character. They grow, and develop their own identities. If you write stories, you understand that once you have a good character, you don't determine what they do, or how they behave, because that's not good writing. Same general idea: if you have a good character, you don't determine how they act or behave.
Valor Bot1 votesI don't see this as an issue. OP isn't stating that Riot should make a character whose whole existence/concept/identity revolves around being queer, he/she is just asking whether there are any in the League currently that happen to be. If they ever choose to make one that is, that's not what he/she has to be all about, and they don't necessarily have to be a "walking, talking stereotype"--it can just be a facet of their persona, kinda like Dumbledore from Harry Potter.
Palmeiras SerieB2 votesAnd what it adds to the game?
Omnem Occido1 votesWhatever it is that lore in general adds to the gameplay.
Doctor Jarvis2 votesWell, I mean I ALWAYS ship Vi and Caitlyn, but I imagine the reason there aren't LGBT champs is more because relationships are rarely acknowledged in League. Champions have a lot on their minds, and no matter how much Caitlyn's luscious bosom may be calling to Vi, she knows Caitlyn is too involved with her job to go with Vi out to the point and...Im sorry what was I talking about?
DREADN0UGHT1 votes
Akenero1 votesWell, here's what's confirmed from riot's journal of justice( blitzcrank fledgling comparability services)
Garen X Katarina is the perfect pair As are Tryndamere X Ashe Janna and Nidalee also dated the same man(caused him to be mauled by nid)
Taric is hinted at being homosexual after rework though(as in obvious but not said) MANY other champs are heterosexual according to the old lore, which is stated
Omnem Occido1 votesSorry, just realized, Bard is asexual. Rioters confirmed it is a sex-less entity.
shyv1 votesLol I'm shocked this has so many downvotes. /s
For future reference don't talk about any lgbt stuff on the boards or in game. Straight people think that wanting a gay champion is a personal attack.
Omnem Occido1 votesI'm straight tho :/
Strawberrycocoa1 votesCan't tell if genuine question or baiting for trolls.
Omnem Occido1 votesNo baiting. I just think that the lore would be enriched by having a more diverse champion field.
Strawberrycocoa1 votesHad another thought to add. I'm simply not sure if there is a way, with the limited options for in-game delivery of backstory, to make a champion express a sexual preference without it feeling forced or cringey.
That goes both ways, for the record. Generic Sexy/Flirty behavior is built onto each champion via the /flirt emote, but few of them express specifics on gender. I think making a gay guy gush over someone's biceps would be equally as cringey as a straight girl drooling over the same muscley hunk. Same with lesbians and straight guys, openly lusting after tits would get old quickly.
Plus, if you put gender specifics into their flirt emotes, it removes the player's options to put there own self into the character. Yeah some of the characters are canonically straight, or close enough to it, but most are unstated or ambiguous. I can /flirt with Ahri towards Braum or towards Tristana and it says the same thing.
It's the player's directive to play their Champion gay or straight if they so choose, and I think THAT should be the default. Gender neutrality leaves the most windows open for player expression.
Krigjer1 votesDo you want social equality as a member of the LGBT community? If the answer is yes, stop trying to make your sexuality the only part of who you are.
Maple Crusader1 votesAre you trying to stir up a shitstorm?
