With the release of the Demacia stories, it's been something on my mind. We have an idea of what Tahm Kench is and what he does, but what about the rest of his race? Are they similar to spirits, or something different? Do they have their own world, or do they share it with other spirits? Are they just chaotic? Evil? Are there good demons?
Sharjo8 votesShen's lore implies that demons have some connection to the spirit realm, so potentially their origins lie there, though given the whole detail about them sustaining themselves off of humans there's a question to be raised as to whether human, or rather mortal influence brings these beings to life, since we know that Tahm Kench is a demon who existed in a different form before mankind was a big deal. I dunno if Nocturne's appearance in For Demacia confirms he's a demon straight up or is more of Demacians interpreting him as such, but with a Demon focused on things like greed and hunger, and one seemingly focused on nightmares, demons seem to embody something not so tangible; feelings, emotions, something that people experience that doesn't have a completely physical origin.
They're physical in nature to some degree, but current stuff pertaining to demons implies that there is a degree of less tangible stuff about them; a pressence that is more than the sum of that form. I look at Tahm and now Nocturne (providing he is a demon and the Demacians aren't just dumb dumbs) with some of their abilities as showcased in the lore and feel like they can go completely non-physical, since Tahm can just go wherever he wants in the rivers especially considering his iconic catchphrase "All the world's a river, and I'm it's king", implies that he's not so physically grounded or limited, and then Nocturne just straight up possesses Luca, but then you see others things to the contrary, particularly that in game Tahm doesn't dissappear when he dies like you'd expect a non-physical entity to do so; he just drops down dead. Nocturne's animation is old and gameplay doesn't reflect lore, but animations are always done with care, especially death animations, so this was a deliberate choice.
Current thinking on demons and lore that is available lends me to believe that demons have non-physical origins and can be intangible in the right circumstances, but are manifestations of something related to living beings and have a very much physical pressence. The particulars perhaps differ depending on the demon, as does their approach.
Mind you I doubt there's good demons. If there were calling them "demons" would be a bit odd. Perhaps some demons don't end up being such horrible, sinful embodiments as others, but I doubt there are many that could be considered "good" by mortal standards. Maybe some more neutral ones but again, depends on the particulars. We don't have many demons to look at right now to figure those particulars.
Fasmodey3 votesTahm Kench sustains and satisfies himself from misery, while Nocturne does it with fear.
So I think demons have their own specific domains that they get feed on.
I feel like Shaco is our next demon and I can see him as demon of murder or chaos. Sustained by killing or creating twisted and terribly dangerous "pranks" (which probably crosses with killing, but not primarily).
Wet Dryman1 votesI hope that Shaco won't become a demon. His gadget usage (boxes and clone) makes him more of a human serial killer and well, it creates a possibility for some steampunk thematics.
Being a demon still makes him very enigmatic which is one of the main cons of his current lore and it takes away any depth or power from his actions because everything he does is dictated by his nature and not because of circumstances, trauma of some sorts or great schemes. He will do X thing because he is a demon of X. Being a human will add power to his actions because acting in a way he does is an extremum in our societies, it is always shocking and has larger impact on human psyche (in this case on other characters in lore). It also needs often clever explanation why the character acts this way thus making it complex and interesting.
GreenLore1 votesI doubt that he'll be human. Because what you describe here is already covered by Jhin.In fact Riot said that they made Jhin human specifically because of these reasons,so I am pretty sure that Shaco will be something else to differentiate him and Jhin a bit more.
Also while he does use gadgets for his boxes,he also uses magic for his clone and teleport.
Wet Dryman1 votesI don't suppose that he will be human either but i'm still having hope. I didn't read Riot's behind the scenes when they were creating Jhin but I read his lore. His lore is one of the reasons I hate Jhin, dude stole Shaco's thematics and lore. Shaco was always supposed to be feared terrorist, complete psycho, homicidal comic and tinkerer to some degree (his boxes are like Joker's Chattering Teeth). Demons and other supernatural beings in this universe are so goddamn boring and enigmatic that I would prefer Shaco to just not be one of them, waste of interesting character.
His clone seems a little bit mechanical due to daggers explosion but you're prolly right, it is magic though it would be cool in his future VGU for it to be made by him (the good ol' classic Joker gadgets).
GreenLore1 votesThe boxes are really the only thing that could be mechanical and even they could have been created with magic.I mean the clone even appears with a magic "poof"
But anyway,the implication was always there that Shaco could be a supernatural being and he was always enigmatic anyway.
Xodiathe4bdn11 votesIn a way they are very similar
They are both theatrical
Murderous
And both use death as entertainment
Where sharco uses it for twisted dark humor
Jhin uses is it to bring out "beauty"
Wet Dryman1 votesThe thing that enraged me is that Jhin's lore is using what Shaco was initially doing. Shaco was a terrorist escaping law enforcement (Zaun and Noxus), he killed people in a manner that he saw funny, he was a homicidal comic (which is art in some form) who used magic and gadgets (though like GreenLore noticed it just might be fully magic).
Then there comes Jhin, he is a terrorist who "performs" in various cities, escapes the law, he kills people in manner that seems beautiful to him, basically is an artist, uses magically empowered guns and ammunition that he constructed. And he got actual depth, all things that make his actions powerful (being a human, perspectve of other people, insight to the mind of a psychopath etc.). Shaco won't get that even though he had very similar thematics for years before Jhin. He will probably just end up as a boring demon.
Xodiathe4bdn11 votesI see your point Just insert or replace funny and beautiful in motives and you've basically got the same champion When his vgu comes I suppose they will put more effort on making him a demon cause as a demon sharco will be capable of far more 'creative' ways to reek terror and won't be restricted by mortal obstacles in his work
Lichcontract1 votesThere is metadata from the game labeling him as demon https://pastebin.com/KtK4xv0z makes sense considering he's the demon jester lol
Wet Dryman1 votesWhy did you kill my dreams :(
Lichcontract1 votesBut like...he's still the same Shaco, just not human. I know you said you dislike Jhin because he stole mr jesters shtick but honestly I think Jhin pulls it off soooooo much better at the moment, he just has a certain charisma to him and he gets that through being human(being extreme and all that jazz).
I never really thought of Shaco as being human and with the new Demacia lore update, it shows that demons can still be a terror and have to evade the law in places without necessarily being bound by normal world matters. I think rito can pull off a charismatic demon jester and if anything I have faith because Jhin is so damn satisfying.
Also his clones and boxes were never mechanical since everything except the shiv always appeared with a poof. That being said instead of a Joker angle I think rito can go with a more funny-man kind of vibe with Shacmeister because he is doing all of this because he legitimately thinks it's funny (unlike mr four who wants to make you art, mr two wants you to dance around his boxes and laugh as you die attacking a ticking time bomb that you think is him - I find it hilarious to JitB, hallucinate send clone out, let them follow him to the JitB, decieve, let cloney explode and backstab shiv them.)
Honestly think there's room in runeterra for several joker like beings whether it's mr two or mr four I'm still gonna enjoy spamming mastery rank when I ult snipe or ult dodge someone elses ult.
Wet Dryman1 votesBut like...he's still the same Shaco, just not human. I know you said you dislike Jhin because he stole mr jesters shtick but honestly I think Jhin pulls it off soooooo much better at the moment, he just has a certain charisma to him and he gets that through being human(being extreme and all that jazz).
The thing is that Shaco was one of the most poorly written characters since he came out. His thematics were interesting and lore gave some fine ideas but he wasn't fleshen out. No motives, no backstory, no origins, almost no insights to his work he was all mysterious doing things for reasons and because of reasons. When the retcon and lore updates were announced I was patiently waiting few years for Shaco to get a proper lore. His thematics and ideas around him made me think (and a lot of other people too) that he will be Joker alike terrorist with terrible work. Then in 2016 Jhin came and his release hit me like a bag of bricks. He received everything that I or other Shaco enthusiasts expected Shaco would get. My dislike for Jhin is a matter of my own personal disappointment.
I never really thought of Shaco as being human and with the new Demacia lore update, it shows that demons can still be a terror and have to evade the law in places without necessarily being bound by normal world matters. I think rito can pull off a charismatic demon jester and if anything I have faith because Jhin is so damn satisfying.
No one before did either because Shaco was mysterious and all. You could think anything of him and that could be true. Demons are terror indeed as Aaatrox or Tahm's lore show but the point is that it's meh. They are so powerful that wordly matters do not encompass them and the only thing about them what can be interesting is what they do. Jhin besides that what is he doing has several character traits that give him more depth like previously mentioned extremum of human behaviour and disfunctions, limitations of it and what thrill it gives (you know, Jhin can be imprisoned, executed, broken and stuff).
Also his clones and boxes were never mechanical since everything except the shiv always appeared with a poof. That being said instead of a Joker angle I think rito can go with a more funny-man kind of vibe with Shacmeister because he is doing all of this because he legitimately thinks it's funny (unlike mr four who wants to make you art, mr two wants you to dance around his boxes and laugh as you die attacking a ticking time bomb that you think is him - I find it hilarious to JitB, hallucinate send clone out, let them follow him to the JitB, decieve, let cloney explode and backstab shiv them.)
Many people thought of him as having some mechanical traits because of skins like Workshop or Nutcracko. Asylum skin also shows that he is indeed human (or at least human alike). Poof could have magical traits because as we know technology in League of Legends universe is powered by magic anyway (Hextech and maybe Chemtech i'm not so sure about the latter). His updated splash art gives impression of metalic mask (think of Dishonored protagonist's mask). I like your further point of view. That would make incredible and interesting insights to his doings and it would finally match his lore with gameplay.
Honestly think there's room in runeterra for several joker like beings whether it's mr two or mr four I'm still gonna enjoy spamming mastery rank when I ult snipe or ult dodge someone elses ult.
No doubt about it but it just feels unfair that new champion got an honor to be superior in those similar thematics even though there was and still is older champion hopelessly waiting for it for years.
Demons as a concept are boring in this game. In other games they are background for certain individuals to emerge from, give them context for interesting things. Notable example is Fall from Grace from Planescape: Torment. Nothing interesting in her being Tanar'ri but it gave her context. She is struggling with her demon heritage, this is not what she truly is, she acts against her nature. She isn't doing things because she is a demon of X. She is doing things despite being it. In League of Legends the only context demons give is why they do certain things in a lazy manner. In lores being purely about characters it sucks. Tahm or Aatrox represent that what should be a background for other characters. We have too much general stuff like that in other universes like Diablo, Warcraft and many, many others. It got boring after all these years.
Lichcontract1 votesAh I get you, it's completely fair to be disappointed since they really haven't given him any love(the q duration and stealth changes were nice but everything else is just a damage nerf lol).
Rito have said that skins are basically like an alternative universe kinda thing(I know they've got stuff like human Kass etc...so they kinda kick themselves with that stuff but it still stands that the skins aren't really canon). The face does indeed look like a mask and a theory of mine is that the mask is a darkin (the meta data linked in my previous post labels darkin as demons apparently) and the Aatrox is actually the blade corrupting the guy so my theory is Shaco is the mask corrupting the jester, Nocturne is a free agent (he possessed someone in the Demacia lore update), Tahm is pretty much a corruption of rivers etc... and Varus is actually the arrow corrupting the guard while from Vaynes lore it's looking like Eve is being set up as another possible demon/darkin.
Tbh most new champions are just better old champions e.g. new Galio has 2 versions of Malph ult, an AOE Rammus taunt, damage reduction, free sheen proc etc...I guess it's just par the course with both game play and lore. I have some ideas about a mr two rework but it's highly unlikely anyone much less rito will even like them lmao.
I agree with you on the demon stuff but hey Aatrox gave rise to Tryn so if the others affect future champs would that make it better? I get where you're coming from though since I rather prefer a Jhin-esque character than an Aatrox but that might just be because I think Aatrox is boring and lacks charisma, whereas, mr two would certainly have more than enough charisma to carry him through no matter what he is.
Partybringer1 votes
BlindfoldedRaven1 votesI've always believed that the demons are a race of evil and sin personified. Tahm Kench is greed, Fiddlesticks is dread, Nocturne is fear. Perhaps demons of pain, anger, hate and sorrow would be interesting?
Maybe Amumu is the demon of sorrow?
