Real talk; This entire Viktor-thing has become a hate-mongering mess

Malicious Metal·Dec 8, 2016·65 votes·3,827 views

I myself have been guilty of this for pointing fingers at the writer of Jayce's lore piece but that's just one of the many symptoms of this.

What's worse, and by worse I mean a LOT worse is how opposing opinions and theories are being down voted to hell and back and how everyone seems to be at each other's throat over these lore changes. This is a boards for lore discussion but it devolved into a battlefield ruled by emotion, over-reaction, unrational fear, hate mongering and other unpleasant stuff. Lore is not being discussed anymore, opposing viewpoints are being shut down entirely and there seems to be no civil discussion in sight. When someone tries to justify the lore he's already got himself 10 rabid Viktor fanboys at his throat to tell him how wrong he is, if someone tries to put forward their opinion and interpretation of the lore he's already a pariah.

Fact is; The Viktor changes are PASSIVE lore changes that are not 100% tied to HIM as a character. It's fickle bits and pieces from his live, not his own feelings and emotions, it's opinionated, it can be read in a variety of ways.

What we DO know is that people feel very STRONGLY about Viktor as a character and hell, Riot should be bloody proud of themselves and their palyerbase that they managed to make a character so delightfully morally ambiguous that 90% of the community defends his every action and sees him as what he should have been; A Morally gray character who was driven unto a darker path by depression and inner turmoil. Hell, his lore spurred people to craft their very own visions of him as a character and them being disappointed is what lead to this cataclysmic event.

Now, It's late, I need to attend Uni tomorrow but I really wanted to get this off my chest. Lore is a wonderful thing, it's stories, it's characters, it's their chemistry, it's a way to tell a story beyond gameplay and it's one of my favorite things about League of Legends, seeing this subform become the place of hatred and other negative emotions Viktor himself wants to rid humanity off does kinda hurt.

96 Comments

SharjoDec 9, 201626 votes

People are highly protective of the old lore in varying degrees, which makes sense because they liked it and have been sadenned by changes that have occured. It's understandable, but I wish folks could be more civil, even if only a bit.

With Viktor it seems like folks are so off put by the idea of Riot making Viktor out to be anything other than what they envision him as that anything else is disgusting. I'd say that's not a healthy approach considering it means folks might end up just flat out ignoring what could be something cool by the end.

Will it? Sod if I know. I'm gonna wait and see though for sure.

Viktor is a particular pain point for me not because of any way he's been written or anything about him, but because of the community. You guys are super protective of him and what he embodies to the point of insanity, and that's great in some respects, but it also means that sometimes I'll open the door to the boards and see a huge brigade of folks with pitchforks and torches at the mere prospect of Viktor being anything less than what the community expects him to be.

Is that wrong on your part? Well no, of course not. You guys are entitlted to our opinions and should voice criticism regularly. It's a good thing to do so. But god damn has it ground me down. I remember spending time having to diffuse people's concerns about Viktor when ONE FUCKING TAUNT from Ekko sent the community spiralling in to dismay about Viktor being written wrong again. A fucking teenage brat said one thing and the boards was almost about to combust it seemed. Had me right up the damn wall.

This has happened before of course; Xerath, Leona, Pantheon, Diana, they're the main ones who've been at the heart of such debates, community panics and the like, and I understand why, but the seeming lack of rational discourse and willingness to literally grab your weapons and go to war for these characters at the drop of a hat has always been a pain point and a worry for me. It's easy to see where it stems from; interesting character with underdeveloped lore gets a dedicated fan following. Change is scary. But I'd like for people to at least think for a while on it, and if they are just not able to concieve rational thoughts and are scared, just be open to discussing even if you can't figure out what you're gonna say yourself.

Personally, I can see where Viktor's going and how he might be written to not be a cartoon villain. I can see it visuallising in my head but I'm holding back on the idea. Am I right? Sod if I know. I'll discuss it if people want, but right here, right now, it's not really the place.

Here and now I just wanna preach about being patient and rational. I'd like it if we didn't do like dragon type pokemon and use outrage, because that ends up being super violent, does a lot of damage and ends in confusion that hurts us as a community too. He passionate and inspired, and be protective of what you love, just be ready to rein it in a bit, y'know?

God damn Viktor always getting us riled up. He's good at that.

Also as a personal note to Malicious, I called you out specifically when you made your earlier thread, and I am sorry for coming across as shitty or a bastard. I posted that response because I expect better of folks in general, including you, and it was extremely dissappointing to see you come out with that. I meant what I said, and I stand by it, but know that I do respect you personally and continue to do so.

So here, have a ghost hug!

https://media.giphy.com/media/g8rhUpt0ounKM/giphy.gif?noredirect

Malicious MetalDec 9, 20164 votes

Well, not everyone can be as thick skinned as Mordekaiser IRL.

Hell, your comment was totally justified, Witch hunts are just trying to attribute blame to SOMEONE and doesn't help at all. It's like when people tried to blame CertainlyT 100% for Mordekaiser's rework when in fact these kinds of things are TEAM EFFORTS.

Nobody lets people write lore without careful planning and making everything fit like some neat little clockwork. It's one big construct of cogs and machinery, it has to function as a whole.

And yeah, I remember back with Ekko's release, Viktor fans, and I'm guilty of this too are highly protective of him as a character because everyone has already a picture of him in the back of their heads. His Lore was somewhat bare bones and it allowed people to interpret their own things into it. Hell, Riot handles this rather well to be frank, they could have just gone the Xerath route and COMPLETELY made him the bad guy but there's a lot of grey here and there, much like his hair actually (rip you glorious streak of white).

I feel the finished product will be a shocker, be it for the worse or the better. It will finally put this question to rest and I feel Riot will NOT butcher Viktor as a character, the plot hook with him being friends with Jayce can be HUGE!

-end rant- it's late, I need to get some sleep lest I snooze through the entirety of my Textual Analysis class

SharjoDec 9, 20161 votes

Have a good sleep Malicious!

Malicious MetalDec 9, 20167 votes

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5JOcC1uz1oM/maxresdefault.jpg

Warlord DienekesDec 9, 20169 votes

This has happened before of course; Xerath, Leona, Pantheon, Diana, they're the main ones who've been at the heart of such debates, community panics and the like, and I understand why, but the seeming lack of rational discourse and willingness to literally grab your weapons and go to war for these characters at the drop of a hat has always been a pain point and a worry for me. It's easy to see where it stems from; interesting character with underdeveloped lore gets a dedicated fan following. Change is scary. But I'd like for people to at least think for a while on it, and if they are just not able to concieve rational thoughts and are scared, just be open to discussing even if you can't figure out what you're gonna say yourself.

You're missing Trundle. I'm pretty sure people are still annoyed by that one. To the point I think there was a post about it a month ago. And that change was, what? 3 years ago? More?

Anyway, it's almost like fans of champions don't like when a champion's lore gets completely altered in theme and characterization from what it was before. And people lash out when that happens. Which, honestly, is such an obvious observation it begs the question why Riot keeps doing it.

SharjoDec 9, 20166 votes

You're missing Trundle. I'm pretty sure people are still annoyed by that one. To the point I think there was a post about it a month ago. And that change was, what? 3 years ago? More?

Aye sorry, overlooked him there, which is weird because he's awfully tall and he's a personal favourite of mine. I dunno what's up with me. Too much Viktor on the brain surely.

Warlord DienekesDec 9, 20163 votes

A regrettable oversight. But an understandable one, after all if we learned anything from the new lore, Viktor seems to have quite a controlling effect on people's brains.

Beyond LegendsDec 9, 20168 votes

Because it was shit and it doesn't fit the larger narrative. The old lore was simply incomsistence and vague at best of time and shit at the worse of times. Most story seem to be thought about by people who clearly didn't put much effort to. It was lame story with lame gimmick that clearly was tack on as an after thought, those who didn't see it were either blind or dillusional. An good example would that the old lore was and shitty broken down wall that that had been painted by the community with grafitti. The wall shit and full of holes but people got attach to it because the suppose work and effort they but into their headcanon(not all of them are good btw in fact most of them are shit). So when Riot starting removing the shit wall and actually put up a good one, some delusional morons thought somehow the old one was better because they somehow fell in love with the old broken graffiti painted probably not by him/her. They get pissy and starts an temper tandrum like children and scream at Riot like an brat.

Being passionate is not a bloody excuse to be toxic at the creators and being constantly negative about every single bloody thing they put up. I wonder how does one fill with such pathetic hatred still stick around. I mean I have worlds and Lore I absolutely despise namingly Avatar universe after Korra, OW and World of Warcraft after WoD, but I do not spend my every waking monent complaining about those world, I simply ignore them. An concept some peope seem not being able to get.

Regardlesa Riot will change has been for the better of most character and we can actually have complicated cast fill with realistic gray character not those deluted anti heros that peole claim to be gray charaters and no more bloody cheasy flat character with no meaningful flaws. People are actually allow to be horrible and cruel for once in fantasy that's not bloody warhammer.

SaltyToplaneGoatDec 9, 201610 votes

Finally someone says it - and of course it draws countles downvotes, although I suspect that's just one guy multiaccounting, sadly a problem with the boards design.

Old lore was, by literally all standarts of respectable literature, downright BAD. Low quality, low inspiration, a few archetypes vaguely mashed together without literally any vision about where to go with it. Your comparision with the wall and the graffitti fits this quite well. It maybe had some sort of amateurish charm, but that was about it.

And I think most people defending it are quite aware of it. Yet they keep complaining. And why? Because it gives them a chance to present themselves as "better" people. "We were here when lore was still good!", implying that they are the older players who are more passionate about it and that puts them above everyone who only joined later when lore was actually getting somewhere. People just love putting themselves above others.

And those who truly claim to be in love with old lore, only love it's inexistent precision. It was so incredibly vague that you could imagine literqally everything in it however you liked it. However, that's not a good story. That's a gigiantic void with the marking imagine your story here. I'd rather have something that has actual effort behind it, thx.

Dextix LTDec 9, 20164 votes

The old lore was not bad, it was simply unpolished, the main thing it had going for it is the freedom it allowed. It was inprecise at points, but Riot could have changed that, isntead they took the tool of the shitty writter and retconed everything instead of working and upgrading what they had.

They could have even ttransitioned to the new lore with a story of how IOW falls, maybe it was a void invasion, maybe corruption from inside, there are so many choices there for good stories.

But what they did was full retcon that to this day creates chaos because we dont know whats canon and whats not WIth the old loree we knew what was canon or not, and they could have built upon it instead of killing it off.

The main problem is that they completely disregard the old lore, old characters, retcon everything and go with their days. That bad writing.

And looking at the quality of some of the characters they made (The targon and shurima bullcrap), i simply dont have much trust in them because they hold nothing sacred in regards to lore.

SaltyToplaneGoatDec 9, 20165 votes

Unpolished? There was literally nothing to polish there. The old lore was a generic filler project someone came up with in a coffee break at Riot. It was inconsistent, incoherent, non-inspirational and a total mess when it came down to aesthetics and style.

Yeah, retcons suck. But you know what sucks even more? Expanding your universe with a foundation you know is not going to hold and is going to drag down the quality of the entire thing. The old lore was not good. It was not even mediocre. It was so bad that it was impossible to build something on top of it.

The old lore was done by amateurs. Then they hired professional writers who thought about this long and hard, only to come to the conclusion: "this is so bad we cannot work with this". That's how much it sucked.

It was so clichee'd low quality that it might have almost held as a parody of the fantasy setting. Almost. In the end it was only just bad tho. And most of the characters they changed? Well, it was not like their writing was actually good before either. Look at Pantheon before the changes: "Oh I'm the clichee dude with a spear who shouts a lot". That's not a character. That's a bad joke. You can think of Targon lore whatever you want, but now we actually HAVE characters that are not just cardboard cutouts with archetypes painted on them.

Most people cannot deal with the fact that with new lore you can't just project your own desires and headcanons on the characters so easily due to reduction in vagueness, but I say that this is indeed a GOOD thing. Why should I even bother reading a story when I'm only interested in my own headcanons anyways? That makes absolutely no sense.

Dextix LTDec 9, 20163 votes

Disagree, because it was coherent, consistent, and inspired in many cases. The biggest thing it had for it, is that it was vague, that is what would have allowed new writers to work with it, the vagueness helps new writers to actually establish new stories without deleting the old ones. The foundation was not bad, it held up, and if you did not like something you could change it in a STORYLINE.

For example IOW was seen by some people as not a good thing, ok, remove it in a storyline and it will remove a bad quality concept from the story but not disregard it. The lore was good, again, not perfect, but it was not bad by any strech of imagination.

Amd yes, the writing was not always the best, but this just means that you can expand instead of destroy.

Where we once had xerath, a powerfull mage who accidentally created a catastrophy and accepted its consequences, now we have an insane saturday villain.

Where once we had trundle, a rejected troll who searched for power to claim the throne of the troll king, now we have a henchman no.1 for lissandra.

Where once we had Leona, a rakkoran warrior that shunned death and brutality, who was to be executed for her views, but instead was rewarded for her convictions, now we have a mindless zealot.

Even pantheon, while not developed, was an artisan of war, friends with leona, someone who was still human, now we have some shitty god that has no character whatsoever and will never receive a proper character.

And now, Viktor is in danger, a misunderstood scientist who is an idealist, but also amoral, who is now in risk of turning into a bad guy just because jayce needs a rival.

We all can deal with the fact that we cant make headcanons or that there is no vaguenes, the burning tides was amazing, war of the three sisters? Amazing (Besides trundle). Rise of shurima? Great (Besides xerath). Those stories were top notch and people liked them even if it leaves no room for interpretation.

The problem is that they had a lore that they could work with, but instead retconed it, and now are so slow to replace it that we can expect some actual lore in 2020. The problem is that there is now chaos over what is and is not canon. The problem is that old characters that could have been expanded upon and were far more than typical characters are disregarded and turned into WH 40k rejects.

Dextix LTDec 9, 201610 votes

No, it was not shit, was it perfect? No, but it was pretty good for what it was, but the most important thing is that it had a lot of different stories and posible branching paths for those stories. The problem is when they removed it, they had NO replacement and they just RETCONED everything instead of making it into a story, which would have been the best option and could have transitioned them into the new lore. But what they did was chaos, complete chaos. To this day we dont even know what is canon or not.

And also, being passionate and complaining goes hand in hand. I often see people like you "OH something bad happened? JUST SHUT UP". That is bad, the industry revolves around passion and critique, if you dont like something you say it and then support your opinion. When you ignore the thing that you dont like then there will be no change and the people above will think that everyone libebs it.

And no, Riots changes have not been for the better, targon and shurima were complete crap in regards to characters and their changes. They will probably make some characters like that, but what i am worried about is the complete disregard of the old lore and characters thus making them completely different from what they weree before, instead of, you know, actually building them up like good writers?

Because i am tired of all the retcons, it make a universe completely unstable. And sorry to say, the old lore was good and you could have fully expanded on it in so many ways.

Beyond LegendsDec 9, 20161 votes

Oh please if you believe that random floating sky pyramind and fucking outta no where sun god was good writing you need to dunk your self into an garbage can. Because that was absolute garbage that was clear written up without much care to it. It was ameteurish at best and complete and utterly lazy at worst. It was filled with messy stories that made the world a stupid fanfic theme park world thought up by people who clear cannot world build.

Also if your passion is just about conplaining then you should just get out. You people are not critics, you don't deserve the title of critics. You are whining useless dipshits that can't get over their own personal biasis. You lack the basic ability to judge a work critically and is speaking outta your ass instead of your head. The media/ gaming industry is fucking shit and toxic because you people fucking lack the basic respect for peoples works. You'll narcassistic dimp wints that has no appreciation for other people hard work. You're undeserving of the lore and you are not worth to being listen to cater to. Spoiled brats like you are not part of this industry.

Let's be real here, any self respecting artist will not be the one that whine like a little bitch. You'll talentless hacks that write shitty fanfiction and believe themselves to be the next shakespear. You're not, your shit. You're unfit to do this job and you lack the talent to do this job.

Dextix LTDec 9, 20168 votes

I did not say it was perfect, and some areas left to be desired. But it was not that bad, and it had areas where you could expand. Again, like i said, you could have just made the transition into the new lore, by destroying the IOW in a story, thus everything that happens urrently could have happened, in an actual storyline. There would be no need to rebuild a world, there would be no chaos over what is canon or not. You could have improved. Retcon is the tool of the lazhy writter.

Our passion is more than complaining, if you have read any threads on story boards (Which you have not) you would have seen many stories/theories and other simmilar creative work writen, even fanfictions which in some cases build their worlds of runnetera really well and better than the current ones. And critique is something we all can do, and well, do. People like you however just want everyone to shut up and never to critisize, which is bad for creativity.

And the fans show appreciation to creative and hard work, when it is good. Your argument that we should never critisize anyone because someone worked on it, is shit. I will use your logic, let us say i order a steak, and it is completely raw, should i not critisize my order because someone worked on it? No, i have the right to critisize it.

And i will simply ignore the last paragraph because it is simply an ad hominem attack with no argumentention.

So basically by your logic.

Everything that is created by companies - Great.

Anyone who critisizes companies - Whiny bitch.

Anyone who writes fanfictions for fun - Talentless shit hack.

Critique - Uneeded whining.

Good logic there brother.....

Beyond LegendsDec 9, 20162 votes

Yes I have read your so call creation and I was bored to sleep with the lack of skill and generic trope that been over used since forever. It was boring and that's the reason why no body reads it or find it interesting. 9/10 fanfic are mediocore at best and shit at worst. You passion is an stinkly pile of mediocorety hence barely anyone reads it or care much for it.

As for the steak analysis is moronic. Since one you did not pay for the fluff, two you're not the only fans that like your shitty taste in food. And that what all this all about your personal taste in story(it's shit btw). The old lore was an stale sandwich that alot people look as a joke. Because that's all old lore will ever be a stupid joke crafted by some guys on a coffee break.

Also perhaps you need to get through your head, there are things in life and in arts as fundementally broken and dumb. When an building foundation is broken mess no matter what you do it the building cannot stand.Retcon are lazy eh, well I sure do know alot lazy writers that is making tone of money by being lazy.

Also taste is not criticque. I can't judge the quality of an cheese if I don't like cheese.

Also did I say everyone who write fanfic is a talentless hack? No I said people who proclaim their fanfic is better, when almost zero peole gives a fuck is an talentless hack. Those who whine and think that their some how better is talentless hack.

Did I say Riot was perfect? No I said your arguement are invalid and you're a twat. You can believe that your old lore was better or some sort unpolish gem, but that doesn't make it true. It doesn't make you right and Riot should quite frankly ignore people like you. If you don't like the product you may leave instead. You so called “critizism” is nothing but a narcassitic urge to feel good about yourself. If you love that old stinking pile so much, go shove it down your throat.

Dextix LTDec 9, 20166 votes

What creation are you refering to? Because i personally have not created anything that i have published online, besides one thing for a contest in these forums. Also, i would like the source of your data about fanfictions and a few professional opinions, if you make such sweeping statements, you hae to support them.

And no, the steak example is not morronic, i dont need to be a master chef, to know that something i got served is bad quality. Gonna ignore the rest as it is an ad hominem attack.

And there really are not foundations that are so bad that they cannot be fixed without a retcon, for example IOW could have been fixed without a retcon, i will repeat, you could have simply destroyed the IOW through the story and then continue with lore such as this, and yes, retcons are lazy, because instead of working and upgrading what you have, you destroy everything beause it is simply easier, it is lazy.

Yes, taste is not critique, but it is a part of it. You can judge something even if you do not like it.

And yes, you indeed claim that companies that create are perfect, and anyone who critisizes them is a whiny talentless idiot.

And i will ignore the rest of the post because it is simply an unsupported ad hominem attack.

All of your posts are filled with ad hominem attacks, and unsupported statements, it is quite sad actually......

TyrekGoldenspearDec 9, 20161 votes

Just throwing a thought here, but what if Riot was fully aware they could have kept the IoW, but decided they wanted to scrap it completely so that its characters and stuff being limited by ultra-powerful summoners?

They can fashion a completely new story this way, and you're acting like this is a regular thing but it really isn't.

This is the first and only major change to the lore Riot has done to the game, it is just taking an agonizingly long time.

Criticism is fine however. But you can't expect them to drop everything they have clearly planned.

Dextix LTDec 9, 20164 votes

Summoners were not gods, they were also limited in what they could do. But alright i understand the argument, Riot cant keep the old lore because summoners and their strenght would not allow it to progress.

The problem is, that this is not a big limitation, how do you think superman operates in his stories despite being the most op superhero ever designed? Writers got him a weakness and focused not as much on his crime-fighting, but fitting in to the society and conflict between his identities.

Summoners rely on magic, so inhibit them specifically in some way related to the nexus crystals. Maybe they become corrupted, have a war or a flashpoint in which they are hunted down. Maybe they finally summon a champion they can't control (Like Aurelion) and in consequence get destroyed or decimated to a point where they do not matter.

There were so many ways to fashion these new stories while keeping the old lore alive, but Riot chose the lazy ass retcon, which would not hurt so much if they would actually replace the lore at a good pace, because currently we can expect to have proper lore only about in 2020, because of how slow they operate.

I never expected them to drop anything, but i can critisize what they create now, and especially the disasters that were targon and shurima lore events. I do not care about the scope of changes, but the quality of them and respect to the old lore (Which there seems absolutely none in the lore team).

Some stories are still frozen in time, with no ending. Current lore is stale, slow, static, there is no movement, no proper arcs or changes in the world, there is only world building, which is a good thing, but currently it is too slow.

Again, these are my main problems with the current lore, the complete disregard of the old lore, confusion over what is and isnt canon because of the retcon, and the incredible slowness at which we get lore.

TyrekGoldenspearDec 9, 20161 votes

Well I can't change your mind about the use of retcon being lazy, but I respectfully disagree.

I for one love the Shuriman lore. I am a big fan of Azir and Taliyah, and I like how their extended lore turned out. However you can not like them and that's okay. Just know that people like the new lore but the fact that you don't like it is fine.

As for Superman, many people (today) don't like his stories, thinking of them as boring with the god-tier hero being unstoppable with the exception of one thing. I don't share this belief as I'm a really big Superman fan, but I'm just throwing another view out there.

Not sure how long it took them to create Universe, but they threw a bunch of world building nuggets into there, and updated the color stories for a bunch of champs that nobody expected.

Now that it's done, we can expect them to pick up steam with story writing.

Your issues with the lore are fine, but I like it so far. The poster above feels the same way I do, they just weren't very civil about it at all.

Star GuardíanDec 9, 20163 votes

interesting character with underdeveloped lore gets a dedicated fan following.

This is definitely the main cause. The community makes their own head canon based on sparse information and accepts it as canon. Now is it possible that their head canon could become canon? Yes. But people need to realise that it's not canon and be open-minded when Riot takes their characters in a different direction.

The whole Leona debacle of people saying she has become a zealot really pissed me off so I stopped reading those post all together. Viktor on the other hand, I never cared about. So I'm just sitting back and observing.

Dextix LTDec 9, 20166 votes

Wait, leona has not become a zealot?

Let me quote:

Leona felt her anger build with every word Diana spoke, and when the elders rejected her words and named her a blasphemer, Leona knew it would be her blade that ended the heretic's life.

I dont know, seems like zealotry to me.

In the old lore leona hated diana for killing the elders, but she did not know the reason, which could have ended in peacefull resolution even.

In the new lore she is a goddamn zealot, hunting "heretics" and rejecting ANYTHING that goes against her belief.

I know they hired a WH 40k writter, but come the fuck on. Leona now becomes an imperial saint and viktor is being set up to be something akin to adeptus mechanicus, i dont know about you, but i want the lore of LOL, not WH 40k.

Star GuardíanDec 9, 20163 votes

You're taking the quote out of context.

Dextix LTDec 9, 20163 votes

Im sorry, what context would justify these statements? Diana comes to tell the solari elders about the lunari, leona follows. Then this situation happens.

What context would justify Leonas anger at what Diana spoke and her calling Diana a heretic?

She is a zealot, that is how they operate, any sort of critique against their religion is viewed as a personal insult that has to be punished, as heresy.

Tell me, what context is there, to justify these statements.

RozzetaDec 9, 20161 votes

The problem with this post is that the existence of "Metroid: Other M" defuses it's argument instantly.

SharjoDec 9, 20161 votes

I don't see how. You'll have to explain for me.

PlacentasDec 8, 201620 votes

Here here! We are all nerdy motherfuckin lore fans! Let's have some respect for one another, and remember you don't always have to reply to someone!

Malicious MetalDec 9, 201621 votes

{quoted}

you don't always have to reply to someone!

https://68.media.tumblr.com/b9aec5ea744280d345aaa4625976318e/tumblr_oe8ehmhDf91qcf2rso1_1280.jpg

SaltyToplaneGoatDec 9, 201611 votes

People be acting like they get to decide how Riot does character and story design - and they even got no clue how fucked up that is. If I'm an author, no matter how much my fans love my work or how passionate they are about it, they got ABSOLUTELY NO SAY in what and how I write.

What is this even, to even think you could tell others how to write "your" character? Just because you like it it doesn't belong to you wtf.

"But without fans writers are nothing! So they should pander to them!" -ahaha I heard that argument once, and it is bollocks. Mostly because it only applies if your work is small and unknown and requires a loyal group of readers to keep being even remotely popular. Riot having a game with several million players? They got absolutely zero need for that and can do whatever the fuck they want as long as the keep the writing high quality.

Tl, dr: let the authors do their thing. And if you don't like it, well then fuck off. No one cares what a teeny tiny vocal minority demands.

The Anagram KingDec 9, 20167 votes

It's not like Viktor is being written by one author; or that Jayce even has the same lore writer.

There's no creative foundation for new Viktor. He is a CONTRAST to old Viktor. It's just the application of character flaws 101 to an already complex, intriguing and ambiguous personality.

And it doesn't fill people with optimism.

SaltyToplaneGoatDec 9, 20163 votes

So a collective of writers has absolutely no authority as an author? Weird view you have here.

Old Viktor was not exactly awesome either, it's just the typical side effect of old lore that it was VAGUE AS HELL, and people imagined Viktor by themselves with how they filled in the gaps. That's not a real lore tho. And it was not exactly innovative and inspirational either. Oh look another tragic character gone semi-evil due to insent random event here.

The new one seems to be a lot more solid here. Yes, he might still work towards the noble goal of improvment of mankind, but now he's no longer fucking around and actually does act like the villain he's generally percieved as.

The Anagram KingDec 9, 20166 votes

The idea that the character belongs to the story, is just as valid as the idea that it belongs to the writer; or the fans.

Blame capitalism. :P

As far as old VIktor "not being awesome", I completely disagree. Vehemently so. He is an amazingly developed character; ripe with idealism, hope, depression, scorn, vengeful motives, an EPIPHANY that changes his thought process; and finally the creation of a completely unrelated character. They did it in all of 2 paragraphs; and it was utterly believable.

It was a triumph.

In fact, here's a quote from my thread that helps to convey my thoughts on the matter:

[{quoted}](name=The Anagram King,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=pAoAZnA2,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2016-12-08T13:46:38.795+0000)

You're right, in a sense. A LOT of VIktor's character is wrought form interpretation of his actions and antics. A serious amount of which is an absence thereof (ie: His revenge against Stanwick never happened, so we know he decided against it).

But these snippets of information have painted a GEM of a picture.

Viktor began working towards improving the Zaunite environment. His city is covered in smog and pollution. From this, we deduce, that he's either a savvy businessman (pollution is a big deal, and everyone wants a solution), or an idealist.

Viktor creates a golem along with his team. It turns out to be sentient. He is absolutely elated by this. He takes pride in nothing more than his own achievement; and there is no mention of cash reward (though no reason to expect that this is not a major factor).

Viktor gets no recognition.

Viktor SEEKS recognition, and asks others to help him. He is naive. Zaun is not like that. It turns out he was an idealist all along.

Viktor loses his credibility. He'll never get it back unless he does something drastic.

VIktor transforms himself.

Viktor realises, halfway through, that his transformation has society-bending implications.

VIktor emerges, obsessed with the Glorious Evolution.

---End Scene---

There is SO much development in those tiny segments of story. He is complex, he evolves, and his future is uncertain. I do not MIND if he becomes "evil" - somewhere down the line. But to destroy his history just to fast-track his amoral tendencies in a new lore (while he's still human) throws sand right in the face of the amazing character Riot has created.

I interpret; but I try not to project. I can identify with most any character if I really try to; but I take offense to exceptional ones being shafted to suit others.

HazyCloud7Dec 9, 20169 votes

Real talk: If this post was made by anyone other than malcious metal it would be downvoted heavily.

People disagreeing with the direction of Viktor related lore =/= hatred, there's nothing wrong with people expressing differing opinions as long as they do so politely.

The Anagram KingDec 9, 20165 votes

He's been downvoted a bunch, too. His threads just bounced back, after the fact. So don't think even beloved forum regulars are safe!

Frankly, I think it sort've discredits that validity of the Viktor concerns (which are incredibly justified and I'm not at all biased?); but it is absolutely true that there's mass up and downvoting going on. When my thread popped up, I got heavily hit, much like the rest. So maybe Vik fans just need to get their revenge for being belittled so widely over the first 8 or so hours. =p

A "Calm down!" message so early into a reaction isn't often helpful. It can oft be quite aggravating.

--Armchair psychiatrist Anagram King

Beyond LegendsDec 9, 20163 votes

Oh poor little vik fans got downvoted because you're unfounded whining for the past week is being downvoted, how bloody tragic.

The Anagram KingDec 9, 20168 votes

Getting downvoted because you're getting downvoted IS pretty tragic.

But the Vik concerns are hardly unfounded. And, in fact, this is THE MOST RELEVANT POSSIBLE TIME to voice them. So I don't know what to tell you.

HazyCloud7Dec 9, 20166 votes

Even though I main him I'm not really invested in his lore, I just don't appreciate the "people disagree and are expressing their displeasure, this is unacceptable" sentiment of MM's post.

TheBentOn3Dec 9, 20168 votes

I'm still salty about Leona getting turned into the Spanish Inquisition., so I greatly sympathize with Viktor fans who aren't happy with the direction they are taking him.

Hope he comes off a little better when his own lore comes out. He deserves better than just being a straight up supervillian (apparently hes got his own cult now too, joy of joys.), he was always a lot more nuanced than that.

ninjaroxasDec 9, 20161 votes

It's not his cult. You think he is the only person that would agument him self?

Smitty ManjensenDec 9, 20166 votes

I can bet my life that you wouldn't sit idly and that you would attack Rito if they scrapped Mordes metal theme, not really the same as lore but still something you feel strongly about the character. Also your countless threads about Morde prove that you would do the same.

ninjaroxasDec 9, 20161 votes

The difference is that there hasn't actually been any new lore on vik yet just people assuming. Which is the issue

Smitty ManjensenDec 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The difference is that there hasn't actually been any new lore on vik yet just people assuming. Which is the issue

Well they assume because they already revealed that cult which sacrifices people, also Riot is famous for screwing lore up.

ninjaroxasDec 9, 20161 votes

Vik isn't directly connected to it. Also ill have to read it again but im pretty sure they just gave their own limbs up. not sacrificeing people, camille doesn't seem like someone who would let that fly.

Smitty ManjensenDec 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Vik isn't directly connected to it. Also ill have to read it again but im pretty sure they just gave their own limbs up. not sacrificeing people, camille doesn't seem like someone who would let that fly.

As far as I remember there was somewhere mentioned they do human sacrifices to that goddess, don't remember the name, also according to Jayces lore he seems like the typical cartoon villain, which is absolute garbage. Hope they don't actually screw it up but I don't have much fate in Riot anymore.

ninjaroxasDec 9, 20161 votes

it's the gray lady, also i think they said they wern't going the way people though they were in a q&a on reddit

5000000000000000Dec 9, 20165 votes

Remember everyone, emotion is a weakness.

The Anagram KingDec 9, 20165 votes

I'm trying my best to be inclusive in my thread, and keeping the finger-pointing (sans Riot's Jayce lore :P) to a minimum, but I won't pretend to be a moderator, here: Current Viktor's rise to Augmentation is AMAZING. Not just "good" - freakin' fantastic.

To deny him the level of character development his old lore provided in order to solidify he and Jayce as "best buddies now enemies" is hardly an equal trade-off. I don't want moral ambiguity as the end result. I want Viktor to change. That, in of itself, is a huge part of why his old lore is so beguiling. In the final moments of his story, he is so utterly and unfathomably different to the idealistic and potentially philanthropic man he once was.

But JUST enough of his former ideals remain, for us to question: IS he still good? He's definitely not done anything bad...

yet.

The Jayce take paints VIktor as a static character, who will develop later - AFTER he becomes a robot and interacts with stuff. And, though in an alternate universe, this could be unprecedentedly well-written and put all other novelised fantasy tales to shame, there would be NO chance of old idealist Viktor; His dreams shattered and self worth destroyed; His drive for acceptance (and maybe vengeance) pushing him to attack his own flesh; His realisation that what drives him could drive an entire society; His eventual coming to terms and - indeed - resolve in his "destiny";

This would be gone forever. Snippets are salvaged, sure. But it wouldn't be the same.

THAT is where I stand on this. And I'm not content to sit around quietly and hope that a secret lore surprise will make everything alright (after which point it's okay to complain? :P)

The EcdysiastDec 9, 20163 votes

I made a thread that points out a fatal flaw in the development of Viktor and Jayce's relationship. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/npr8iN6c-oriannas-existence-ruins-viktors-story

Basically, since Orianna is actually the ideal that Viktor is supposedly aiming for, that means all the technology necessary to create fully functioning mechanical humans that lack negative emotions but retain their humanity is already perfected. He has no purpose.

333lomDec 9, 20161 votes

I agree. It's like Viktor's old glorious evolution got completed and put on Orianna, but only as an after-thought, as if it was easy, instead of that accomplishment of transcending the mortal realm being treated as one of the greatest achievements ever. And now Viktor has no purpose.