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Character Archetypes

Bultz··1 votes·1,210 views

So in the Yasuo origins the author writes about how there are no, or very few character archetypes left for the game to explore before they have to just make up champions. I just wanted to suggest the most famous archetype there is and that is the superman/goku type and wanted to know why one hasn't been created. While I do mostly mean character type, and not lore, It still brings to question why we don't have a flying brawler/martial artist in the game. Yes we have Lee sin, but with his kit and background I don't consider him to be that archetype, as he doesn't fly and as his kit is mostly awkward and not what a martial artists kit should feel like. I am leaning towards skirmishers for the this archetype.

They could be good or evil or whatever, but with this type of champion I am sure we can find a good amount of lore to drive the idea. I think we can agree that todays most iconic characters are flying brawlers. This is why everyone knows who Goku and Superman are. Now I am not saying that they should make some crazy level of hero which punches black holes into the world, but someone more complex mechanically who leans towards the more AA type champions. Someone who doesn't have a weapon, but rather just punches and kicks and what not. Personally I would go with a Goku type more than superman as goku is a martial artist, but either way I think you should consider giving one a chance.

16 Comments

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO4 votes

I think you're doing an immense disservice to both Supermand and Goku if you just conflate the two into the same archetype. Also how would a Goku inspired character (martial artist who can fly) differentiate himself when compared to Lee Sin?

As for Superman we already have an archetype. Superman is the quintessential hero, and we have plenty of those who emulate his ideals and actions. If you still want a flying, brawling character for whatever reason, pick Galio.

Bultz1 votes

{quoted}

I think you're doing an immense disservice to both Supermand and Goku if you just conflate the two into the same archetype. Also how would a Goku inspired character (martial artist who can fly) differentiate himself when compared to Lee Sin?

Well lets see, both are the last son of their destroyed planet, but really aren't as more of their race pops up, both can fly, both have super strength, both have some sort of beam power, both were found and raised by farmers, both are heroes, both save the world, both know a tremendous amount of fighting technique, etc. etc. I don't think you connect the two enough.

As for how would it differ from lee, Lee is a mage who gave up magic to fight. Lee's kit is awkward and not AA based. He has some weird slap the ground, kick them techniques similar to martial artists, sure, but overall to have a proper martial artist kit the champion would need to be a skirmisher and not an assassin. Sure lee's theme is martial artys, but as a fighter and long time martial artist myself, his kit isn't anything it should be to fit the style. Take my main, Yasuo. Yasuo fulfills the fantasy of a master samurai/ronin and his kit feels proper. Lee sin doesn't feel like a fighter and isn't a flying champion/hero type archetype.

As for Superman we already have an archetype. Superman is the quintessential hero, and we have plenty of those who emulate his ideals and actions. If you still want a flying, brawling character for whatever reason, pick Galio.

LOL Galio may be a hero, but he does in no was fit the archetype of this character. And again you miss the point of the post, it isn't if they are a hero or not, it's their overall kit/design/fantasy/in game model/ basically everything that makes the champion. Also galio may leap, but he no longer flies. When I say fly I mean Malzahar flying. What I want is a champion similar to malzahar, but instead of a mage, I want an ad skirmisher, a close range melee bare fist fighter who is very mechanical. As for his lore, the lore leaves so much room to be anything really.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO3 votes

Well first of all Lee's lore is up in the air at the moment, with the retcon and all.

Second of all you're missing the entire point of Superman if you leave him as his powers. Superman's archetype isn't "guy who flies and punches stuff real hard" it's the man who is always striving to do the right thing and always holding himself to the highest standard. The best superman stories are the ones that highlight his altruistic desire for heroism.

Goku on the other hand is always about self improvement. He's not necessarily in it to do the right thing or be a hero (though to argue he's narcissistic or a villain is idiotic). Goku is the symbol of self improvement and drive. He's always striving to be stronger, and his best stories are where he conquers all odds through determination and dedication.

Now you may argue that for intents and purposes they would function similarly in a game, but Riot rarely if ever starts from a gameplay perspective. They almost always start from a more lore oriented base.

Now if you want a flying ad skirmisher, I would argue that there are much better alternatives for a lore base. You may want a more demonic brawler (perhaps a Darkin) or even another Vastaya.

Bultz2 votes

{quoted}

Well first of all Lee's lore is up in the air at the moment, with the retcon and all.

Second of all you're missing the entire point of Superman if you leave him as his powers. Superman's archetype isn't "guy who flies and punches stuff real hard" it's the man who is always striving to do the right thing and always holding himself to the highest standard. The best superman stories are the ones that highlight his altruistic desire for heroism.

When the word Archetype is sued, it is used to generalize. Sure the greatest Superman stories are when he is most human saving people through kindness and action and not might, but we are talking league for now and in league we have to go with the powers. The Lore and core of his character is important and is a much heated debate for any new creation, but for this post all I am saying is that we lack an ad skirmisher who can brawl. That type of character can open up a world of new possibilities for lore, character bios and development and though I say superman Archetype I mean what he is, not who he is.

Goku on the other hand is always about self improvement. He's not necessarily in it to do the right thing or be a hero (though to argue he's narcissistic or a villain is idiotic). Goku is the symbol of self improvement and drive. He's always striving to be stronger, and his best stories are where he conquers all odds through determination and dedication.

As stated a paragraph up, It isn't about the core of goku or supermans character, it's about the generalized versions of them because we can't copy Goku or Superman, but we can take inspiration for their kit and possibly their lore.

Now you may argue that for intents and purposes they would function similarly in a game, but Riot rarely if ever starts from a gameplay perspective. They almost always start from a more lore oriented base.

True they have been starting from lore a lot, but not always. If they see a clear kit and a good mechanic they can use they have built champions off of them i believe.

Now if you want a flying ad skirmisher, I would argue that there are much better alternatives for a lore base. You may want a more demonic brawler (perhaps a Darkin) or even another Vastaya.

I don't think either Darkin or vastaya would suit well, as the darkin have their weapons theme and the vastaya would have to be some crazy bird man to fly and we have like 6 of those as is.

Digielf2 votes

{quoted}

I think you're doing an immense disservice to both Supermand and Goku if you just conflate the two into the same archetype. Also how would a Goku inspired character (martial artist who can fly) differentiate himself when compared to Lee Sin?

As for Superman we already have an archetype. Superman is the quintessential hero, and we have plenty of those who emulate his ideals and actions. If you still want a flying, brawling character for whatever reason, pick Galio.

We already have Goku MonkeyKing , he was inspired by Sun Wukong and in reality he can acctualy fly. We also have Superman Galio aswell now as you said.

Ralanr1 votes

So you want a flying martial artist?

Cardinal Sinveil1 votes

I think Jayce fits the "Uncorruptable Superhero" archetype. With Viktor being his Lex Luthor.

As for Goku, Wooohooo pointed out earlier that LeeSin (and to an extent MonkeyKing ) cover him style-wise.

Lady Faceless1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cardinal Sinveil,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=ZiNb8Qt8,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-07-01T20:58:21.838+0000)

I think Jayce fits the "Uncorruptable Superhero" archetype. With Viktor being his Lex Luthor.

As for Goku, Wooohooo pointed out earlier that LeeSin (and to and extent MonkeyKing ) cover him style-wise.

Pre-Retcon lore, yes, however since we got their new lore, Jayce is basically the unsympathic hero and Viktor is the sympathic one.

Cardinal Sinveil1 votes

Because of whining Viktor mains -_-

Next thing you know, Veigar is actually a pretty nice guy trying to save Runeterra from the void.

Lyndris2 votes

Well, duh. He wants it to himself :P

Lady Faceless1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cardinal Sinveil,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=ZiNb8Qt8,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-07-01T23:33:40.822+0000)

Because of whining Viktor mains -_-

Next thing you know, Veigar is actually a pretty nice guy trying to save Runeterra from the void.

Tbh, Viktor never was supposed to be a villain. Considere we got some lore updates, who being just a bloody mess (Targon, Vayne), I'm still surprised how well-written the new Viktor lore was.

And also, people are too complicated to make one just a hero and one the villain. Both are not bad person or anything, they just heavily disagree who to help others.

GreenLore1 votes

I am pretty sure that Viktor was originally meant to be a villain.

Thats the entire reason why Jayces original lore depicted him as one.

Then the Viktor fans complained and that was likely the point where Riot started to think of Viktor as a more complex character.

Lady Faceless1 votes

I'm not a Viktor fan myself, but this isn' a bad thing? Having a complex character?

GreenLore1 votes

I'm not saying it is a bad thing,just that riots view on Viktor likely changed thanks to the community.

KoKoboto1 votes

I want a Crona the insane one. But I also want Raganarok as well but we already have a few 'two personalities one body' characters.

GreenLore1 votes

So essentially you want the flying brick in the game. The guy/girl who can fly and also punch people.

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