A thought about lore updates - What people want.

Jakra··20 votes·1,433 views

** TL;DR: Fans who are into the lore, want ways in how a character's story can be developed, not into how it can be replaced. Especially when you consider the contrast between the reception of Bilgewater's update and Varus' lore updates. Unfortunately, Yordles could be given similar treatment to what Varus has recieved.**

I've been pondering a lot lately on how such mixed reactions we get from the the lore updates as of late, which I've been in deep thought about since we've had the Bilgewater updates surrounding Miss Fortune, Graves, Twisted Fate and Gangplank. Their lore updates were pretty well received from what I remember! I don't even recall anyone complaining about the fact that Graves and Twisted Fate went from being enemies to allies. But since Varus' lore update and how some of the Yordle lore updates are getting such a mixture of reactions, I soon learned something. Particularly when you compare the Bilgewater updates with Varus' lore update.

First, lets go over Varus' old lore, in short, the old Varus was the tale of a dying man who lost everything, he stood guard to a sacred temple as his friends and family were killed after Noxus invaded his homeland, Varus went inside the temple he was guarding and became the monster that some may consider him to be. He continues killing, because he knows he'll die anyway. Now, Varus is an entity of three people: A darkin and two lovers who try to create their own sense of justice, whilst fighting their own battle; 2 v 1. Needless to say, those are two different stories. Now, I know I'm creating a very simplified description of the lore, but it doesn't take away from that fact that the only parts that really stuck, was the fact that an invasion took place in Ionia and Varus is swearing vengeance against Noxus (though there's more complexity to that part, too).

Now bare that in mind whilst we go over the Bilgewater stuff, mind you, I'll be focusing on the characters I mentioned before: Miss Fortune, Gangplank, Graves and Twisted Fate. Again, a very simplified description on both sides.

Miss Fortune didn't have a lore that was too different from what it is now, she was still a bounty hunter, she was still after the person who killed her parents (which _may _have been GP) and she still strived for a better Bilgewater. Now, Miss Fortune did her bounty hunting so she could gradually get to Gangplank, slowly take away everything he had, before sending him to his demise as she continues her adventures to do good for Bilgewater.

As for Gangplank, he didn't have much of a character to begin with, as Riot said, he was pretty much "Mr Pirate McPiratey Pants" or something along those lines. But, the main concept of his old lore, was that he was a very dangerous and violent man and became one of the most feared pirates known in all of Valoran; a Pirate king you might say. Which he still is! ...or rather, was. After all, the only difference now, is that he's been made ship wrecked, and now vows to take back Bilgewater.

Graves and Twisted Fate, partners in crime until Twisted Fate seemingly betrayed Graves, and have since became sworn enemies. Now, after their involvement with Gangplank and Miss Fortune, they've settled their differences, and now commit thefts together like they once did.

Do you see the pattern here? Do you see how this differs from Varus' lore update? Bilgewater was well received because the story had a chance to continue and give the fans something fresh. Varus didn't get any sort of chance, his story got replaced entirely.

I will say however, it's not a terrible replacement, but it does leave a bad taste in people's mouths since the old lore was also something which people deeply admired. SpecterVonBaren is onto something when he says we can still have both sides of the lore: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/nAElN1pa-there-is-a-way-to-have-both-old-varus-and-new-varus This is a genius way in how Varus can have development, instead of replacement. You don't have to fill in all the gaps to fill such a narrative about Darkin, Varus himself or even the couple that fell into the well. Because that's what development is for, it's to be told along the way, not from the moment you fire the gun.

Which brings me to the Yordles. If I'm going to be blunt, the new updates surrounding some of the Yordle character's updates, feels a tad lazy to me. Or at least from what I've been seeing. For example:

Veigar's old lore was basically along the lines where he was abductedwhen curiosity got the better of him, he was left to go crazy and sooner studied the dark arts in his craze to force conflict on its knees before it gets worse, which may have been fueled by Tahm Kench, a demon who gives you what you desire the very most, whilst coming at the cost of the consequences of your wishes. Veigar's short lore now, is that he studied magic an awful lot and proclaims he's evil, though it's like he may have a lot more morality than what he admits to.

The fact that Veigar could be lying about being truly evil is fine with me, in fact I applaud it. But this is the problem we're going back, it's exactly what people were complaining about with Varus' lore update: Replacement over development. If we were to take a leaf out of Specter's book, why can't we have both? Why can't Veigar learn his morality along the way, after going through what he went through? What if he learned about Kench in his studies about demons, and then vowed to take on Kench when he comes back for Veigar? There are so many more options than what's being planned for Veigar, lore wise. He might be a Yordle, but that should add to what makes him interesting, not to what makes him funny or quirky.

Ziggs could be given similar treatment, his old lore? Ziggs wanted to be just like Heimerdinger, a hugely successful inventor, but was left heartbroken after the Academy that would've helped made him into something, made him leave because of his foolhardy behaviour regarding safety. Before he left for home, he learned about how Zaunites were kidnapping the professors of the Academy he has such high regards for, where they were later kept in captivity. Piltover couldn't do anything until Ziggs went on to save the professors with the explosives that later made him famous. Now? Well, if the comic is anything to go by, he'll pretty much go from being Heimer's colleague/student/whatever you want to call it to being Jinx's physical conscience, whilst still blowing stuff up.

If this comic is all there is to it, then Ziggs lore in a nutshell basically went from being a hometown hero who made his dream come true through heartbreak and demolition, to essentially a sidekick who became someone else's sidekick. This in particular, feels very lazy.

However, The solution is simple. Why can't Ziggs simply go from his old lore to this new lore as a way of showing that the dream he had, may not have been the dream he necessarily wanted. He got the chance to join the Academy, but never got Heimer's approval after saving his peers. So he went with Jinx, and is now finding a way to manipulate Jinx into reeking havoc in Zaun instead (At least if I'm reading his short lore on the wikia right).

But I will wait until the full update surrounding Yordles is complete, first. For all we know, what I just mentioned could be exactly what they're doing. Hell, this comic might not even be considered canon. I will admit it's probably too soon to say whether these changes to specific Yordles are set in stone, but I do wish Riot takes this mentality with lore from now on: Don't fix what's not broken, add to what's already interesting.

35 Comments

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO10 votes

I don’t get this. These stories are getting changed for a reason, and I’d much rather Riot follow their own prerogative than bend over backwards to jerk off the “big fans”

Both Varus and Ziggs now feel more consistent with the new world Riot is building.

Jakra5 votes

This isn't so much as telling Riot to bend over backwards for big fans, but rather a suggestion in how to keep more people happy (I'm not going to say everyone, because that's unrealistic).

I'm not suggesting Riot shouldn't follow their own ideas, I'm suggesting they should consider something that worked before, and adapt it to other ideas. I'm not telling them what they can and can't do, they're the billion dollar company, after all. But at the same time, they want feedback and opinions and this is mine. It doesn't bother me too much if they listen to it or not.

Emperor of Fate3 votes

{quoted}

I don’t get this. These stories are getting changed for a reason, and I’d much rather Riot follow their own prerogative than bend over backwards to jerk off the “big fans”

Both Varus and Ziggs now feel more consistent with the new world Riot is building.

i agree..

Warlord Dienekes14 votes

I think it's pretty easy to get, really.

Imagine liking a character, then having some other writer come in and change everything about the character you originally liked. Turning it into something very different.

It also has to do about what your view of Riot's design choices. You are right, Riot seems to have a much firmer grasp on their own worldbuilding. The problem is, how much people actually care about the world will vary from person to person. Some people care more about their core group of characters than any world Riot is trying to create.

I can only speak for myself, but I just don't seem to care about Runeterra as a setting. I like a handful of the characters: Miss Fortune and Darius being the only two that actually come to mind. But the world? Not particularly. I don't care about the invasion of (Pick one): Voidbeasts, Darkin, Space Parasites, Watchers which seems to be going on behind the scenes of every single set piece Riot has made.

Some of the writing has been pretty good. But even when some parts of the world start to become interesting like Demacia, we get things that make no sense in anything resembling economics, politics, or military (Galio). This just makes the setting feel even more like a random hodgepodge of half-baked ideas. Which I thought the whole purpose of the lore rewrite was to get away from all of that.

ChompyWulf5 votes

If they want new world to be trash with half the personality of old champs lore, then yes these new lore for better. Thing is, that doesn't make the writing better, especially if they can't write a plot to give motivation and growth, instead just rewriting.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO4 votes

So because you didn’t like the lore you’re declaring it to be worse? If Riot listened to a fourth of the suggestions people have for the lore the quality will fall.

I’m glad Riot sticks to their guns regarding the retcon.

ChompyWulf8 votes

It has more to do with players becoming dissatisfied with more and more retcons changing champs whose lore they enjoyed before. Voli gone from a protective warrior shaman of his tribe to a bloodthirsty corrupting demigod of war. Veigar gone from a tormented soul whose evil legitimately contrasted with his diminutive body, to a magic academic who claims he's evil but it's just a show. Varus gone from a man torn between duty and family accepting corruption to claim vengeance....to two gays that unwittingly were corrupted after failing in battle. Now Ziggs gone from unlikely hero to pyrotechnic lackey villain.

The major problem is all these changes happened in a vacuum. One day their old lore was Canon, and new day new lore with no story or logic progression. That's garbage writing by any standard, especially when it changes the personality of a character people liked.

Splision1 votes

Isn't that the point of a retcon though? Why would they progress a story for a character when they intend to change it in the first place? Before you can progress a story you have to know the characters first, but if you're retconning then you have to reintroduce them before progressing their stories once more.

Warlord Dienekes1 votes

The point of a retcon is change. Of course, but I would argue that there is a span of retcons.

There some minor ones, such as changing a character’s age to better fit a stories timeline.

There are development retcons where it’s really just adding additional details to help flesh out a character.

There are setting induced retcons where the world has changed and so a character gets updated to better fit the new setting.

Then there are complete changes. Where the new creation is so drastically different from what people were expecting that it may as well be a completely different character.

The problem comes, that a lot of players thought the lore retcon was going to be a mix of the first three. Getting rid of the IoW? Then it makes sense that Ashe and Sejuani are in open war now. And they can take that direction with their stories. A setting enduced change. Oh we now have a timeline which means that Nasus has to be 1000 years old instead of 300. Cool, yeah. We’re keeping the struggle with his brother though, because of course. Without that it wouldn’t be the same character.

The problem comes when Riot starts making wild changes that really don’t resemble the earlier character at all. Then you’ll get fans of the old character feeling betrayed. What do you mean, Batman is now a space wizard who just looks like a bat because he’s an alien? That’s not Batman, why would you ever do that? Who told you that was a good idea?

That’s the kind of thing people feel is the problem with some of Riots lore rewrites. Why was the troubled diseased and shunned savior turned into a generic warlord? Why was the gargoyle turned into the single most idiotic military expenditure I have ever heard in my entire life? Why was the soldier turned into a space parasite? Why was the vengeance seeker turned into... I don’t know how to describe it?

They don’t resemble the original character in any way the fans care about. And it turns out, removing things people like and replacing it with things they don’t like is a quick way to make people not like the end result.

Quepha2 votes

The change due to a retcon is almost always seen as a big negative and a major cost for some other kind of gain. The point would be to revitalize a franchise, remove problematic elements, or open up new stories. Change for the sake of change is nonsense.

Splision5 votes

Isn't Varus' desire to find his Darkin siblings not only motivation for his character, but adds progression for the Darkin narrative within this universe?

Rammus and Amumu are clear examples of what you're talking about; rewrites with no motivation or progression. Just because you didn't like a champion's lore change doesn't mean there isn't motivation or progression within their story.

Emperor of Fate1 votes

{quoted}

Isn't Varus' desire to find his Darkin siblings not only motivation for his character, but adds progression for the Darkin narrative within this universe?

Rammus and Amumu are clear examples of what you're talking about; rewrites with no motivation or progression. Just because you didn't like a champion's lore change doesn't mean there isn't motivation or progression within their story.

That is what iam trying to explain...but apparently without any success thus far...

Quepha3 votes

It's literally not lore if Riot rewrites it every time they think of something "better".

No one pays attention to lore unless they're a big fan so that should be their primary audience for the lore.

GenoXx1 votes

Varus? Nope. Zigs? Yes, there was actually a reason why he's in Zaun right now. Varus was apparently the result of creativity(stil ldon't believe that) as quoted by DyQuill.

The Whamboozler4 votes

Yeah. Imagine a character suddenly having their backstory and motivations changed and how fans would react to it.

Batman now no longer fights crime because his parents were shot, but instead because he's a crime boss, the order to kill his parents came from him, and he's using the costume to shut down rival gangs and criminals that threaten Wayne Co. and his underworld empire.

Is that a decent backstory? Yeah. Is it a good story? It could be if done well. Is that Batman? NO!

The only reason people like you don't care about the lore changes is because you didn't care about the lore before. But to the people who DID like the old lore, the fact that it's getting the shaft sucks. Stop belittling people for enjoying something and not wanting that something to change. Stop pretending it isn't a slap in the mouth. Just because the characters aren't as popular as Batman doesn't mean they didn't have fans and doesn't mean those fans need to just suck down the changes or like the new lores.

Emperor of Fate8 votes

varus didnt receive negative respond from fans...it was a specific part of the community that spammed the boards with hate , the matter has been discussed to death , people resurface it because they cannot accept change....it doesnt matter what some hardcore close minded ''fans '' want...riot must have a clear plan about the lore and it has...

ChompyWulf7 votes

Varus lore responses fell into three categories.

  1. Rabid homophobia
  2. The support all lifestyles crowd
  3. Fans legitimately angered by an unnecessary rewrite.

Varus is now two gays who couldn't fight as good as one straight dude, who have literally lost nothing yet and were corrupted by sheer ignorance, while old Varus had to make a massive moral choice, succeeded in his duty, and chose revenge and corruption because of legit heartbreak and loss.

Riot writers are as bad as the new Star Wars scriptwriters, changing good stories people liked into new stories a fair number of fans dislike or outright hate. Their plan seems to be dividing and breaking their fanbase.

Emperor of Fate4 votes

{quoted}

Varus lore responses fell into three categories.

  1. Rabid homophobia
  2. The support all lifestyles crowd
  3. Fans legitimately angered by an unnecessary rewrite.

Varus is now two gays who couldn't fight as good as one straight dude, who have literally lost nothing yet and were corrupted by sheer ignorance, while old Varus had to make a massive moral choice, succeeded in his duty, and chose revenge and corruption because of legit heartbreak and loss.

Riot writers are as bad as the new Star Wars scriptwriters, changing good stories people liked into new stories a fair number of fans dislike or outright hate. Their plan seems to be dividing and breaking their fanbase.

Or people are just blinded by nostalgia...i personaly find the new starwars movies pretty good ,better than the shitty prequels! Now about varus....he was not a character , just a pure excuse for one...and that was the case with most champs back then..also he didnt even have an interesting idea behind him ..he was just a bad overused trope ! Moreover , new varus is the darkin not 2 gay dudes and he can fight prety well! I personaly find the change to be good but i dont think that any change even if it is unpleasant will ever lead me to state that " it is breaking the fanbase".....i know that my words can not reach you but try to understand that creating hate wont help....noone likes every change but iam sure that leagues new lore has something for everyone to enjoy....

ChompyWulf4 votes

Tropes exist for a reason, they embody conflicts or concepts people readily relate to. By themselves, they don't offer much depth, but are a good starting point for a tale. You're trying to nitpick specifics, facts are old Varus was a phenomenally skilled archer who accepted corruption for revenge. New Varus is still two clueless gays who by comparison are combined weaker than old Varus was. Varus is just one change in lore that destroys stories people liked. Volibear, Ziggs, and Veigar have all had big changes to their character, Fiddlesticks was changed from a shadowy menace to a horror trope, Darius was humanized, losing his unrelenting aura...and there are probably more crappy rewrites because I gave up on trying to follow the slog of their creative team. Frankly, all the new lore is lazy trash because none of the writers are willing to expand, preferring to demolish and rebuild.

Sexy Jack Rabbit4 votes

That's not what a trope is.

A trope is a metaphorical use of a word or a recurring theme. Not whatever the fuck context you're trying to use it in. I.e using the words 'shattered' or 'broken' in reference to pain or anguish as opposed to something being literally broken. Or the thematic of child-like wonder in Zoe's color story to emphasize her naivety.

The word you're after is 'cliche' which frankly aren't always bad things. Cliche's exist because they WORK. They're effective at getting across moral's and ideologies because they're easy to relate with and simple to understand.

People love to bash on cliche's when the reality is that most successful media are based off of them.

It's funny that you talk about nitpicking specifics when you don't even understand the word you're trying to base you're argument off of.

ChompyWulf1 votes

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trope

A trope is synonymous with cliche, and has been used more than cliche in recent years so a proper use in context with understood vocabulary. Did you notice I didn't bash tropes/cliches in an of themselves?

Sexy Jack Rabbit2 votes

It's contextual. You can use Cliche in reference to a trope but not vice-versa.

A cliche is something to have become mainstream or commonplace, but a trope is a simply recurrent theme, which are NOT always common place or mainstream. For something to be cliche it needs to carry a negative context with it, or a negative connotation behind it.

A better way too say it is, for something to be "cliche'd" it needs to be trite. A trope on the otherhand is a more broadened term that does not have too refer to something that is boring or unoriginal.

English is a fucky language but I hope that makes enough sense so you're able to understand why in the context of what you're saying, 'trope' makes absolutely no sense. Whereas Cliche would have gotten your point across much clearer. You're trying to say that Varus's story was written in a manner that was uncompared to the old, which Cliche is synonymous with, but Trope is not.

I.e you can see that Cliche is a synonym to Trite, but Trope is not. [sg-ahri-2]

Emperor of Fate3 votes

{quoted}

You're trying to nitpick specifics, facts are old Varus was a phenomenally skilled archer who accepted corruption for revenge. New Varus is still two clueless gays who by comparison are combined weaker than old Varus was. New varus is not the two gay guys....also they were depicted as pretty powerful hunters...and lets not forget that the darkin is propably a quite formitable archer himself.. Varus is just one change in lore that destroys stories people liked. Volibear, Ziggs, and Veigar have all had big changes to their character, Fiddlesticks was changed from a shadowy menace to a horror trope, Darius was humanized, losing his unrelenting aura...and there are probably more crappy rewrites because I gave up on trying to follow the slog of their creative team.

Again...you are sooo melodramatic...old stories didnt go anywhere most of the times and couldnt tie well with the story... -volibear was a talking battle bear now he is a demi god that shaped runeterra(?)and still retains his ferocious nature

-fiddle was heavily tied to summoners thus the change...although i still find him pretty creepy and menancing!

-Darius received a clear upgrade....his comic was propably my favorite thus far...it showed the mentality of noxian soldiers and showed us that compassion , mercy or even love can not grow in noxus ...even if the seeds exist..

-veigar and ziggs that received minor tweaks in their lore ...nothing that radical if you ask me...

As far as varus is concerned the themes of revenge and sacrifice continiue to exist in the new story...varus is driven by revenge for the death of his people the same ...a feeling shared with one of the two hunters...Also note that originaly varus was going to use ,the body of just one of thrm....the other rushed to sacrifice himself in a desperate attempt to save his heartlight!

If you want to see a human corrupted by a dark power that fights because he has nothing to lose read Kassadin new lore...you can thank me later..

The only thing writers do after the retcon is expanding and fleshing out the world and the characters...lore is better than ever !

ampheon1 votes
  1. People who wanted another darkin
The Iceborn6 votes

I agree that the Lore shouldnt be changed but expanded... I mean in some cases its necessary but the main champions lores shouldnt be changed at all just creates a lot of confusion...

Blaiz Fenix4 votes

Did Ziggs change? He doesn't seem like he has to me. His lore is the same and he still the inventor and sole user of Hexplosives.

Did his color story change anything other than he like to blow things up too, because he seemed to make a special point not to hurt anyone unlike Jinx.

HonestJohnTheCon1 votes

I see Ziggs as a morally good person but his one guilty pleasure is that he likes to see stuff blow up.

Jakra3 votes

I acknowledge that some of what I said is based on what I want, but hey, isn't that basically 70% of the boards? [sg-lulu]

HonestJohnTheCon1 votes

More than 70%.

BestJhinUniverse3 votes

New lore is bad majority of the time.

HonestJohnTheCon2 votes

Nah. They're about half-and-half with retcons vs. mostly the same with characters, and some of those retcons were good, like Orianna's.

Majority of the new lore has been good, it just makes the bad ones all the more noticeable.

Ifneth3 votes

New lore, wherever possible, should be a continuation of the old lore from where it left off, rather than just replace it.

For example, suppose that Riot wanted Lux to lead a movement for the civil rights of mages in Demacia, where they are oppressed. Rather than replace her current lore with that, Riot should start from her current lore and lead it toward that place. Write a story wherein Lux, growing unsettled by what she has been hearing about how her country treats mages, dons a disguise and uses her light magic to sneak from her castle into the mage ghetto of her home city.

Show us the poor, lonely lives of the mages. Let us feel their misery and desperation through Lux, and share her outrage at their treatment. Have her vow to help them however she can and return home to start planning. Speed the story along through late nights of research and repeated visits until she meets the members of an underground organization devoted helping mages.

Let her be invited to their midst and, in a secret meeting hidden from the authorities, ask the mages’ leaders what would help most. Then send her back to her castle to plan and research some more—this time about the courtly politics and history surrounding the treatment of mages. End the story with Lux leaving her room, binder full of notes and pictures under her arm, to address a salon full of sympathetic and influential noblewomen.

Imagine how different these quotes of hers would sound with this new lore behind them:

“For justice—and all things bright!”

“Never deny who you are!”

“Lighting the way!”

See? We could take Luxanna Crownguard from shunned youngster to passionate advocate. Her fans would be proud to see her character develop and satisfied that it would keep the upbeat determination that makes her essentially Lux. There would be no need to erase her past self to create a future one.

This way would be better.

Johnny El Rojo3 votes

That's my problem with Leona . She went from only sane person in a society of religious zealots, to leader of said zealots. She went from a warrior moved for compassion that thought that the value of a warrior was on how many was he/she able to protect, in a society were the might of a warrior was measured by his kills, to a fanatic that wants to decapitate people for speaking "heresy".

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