"You're everything wrong with Zaun." - Ekko

Ebonmaw Dragon·May 13, 2015·36 votes·12,568 views

In the Wiki (that may be wrong) it says that this quote is directed towards ... However i think that the quote would be better towards or (Or even ) Because THEY are the main problem of Zaun ... they attack/kidnap/kill citizens of the city in order to make "tests", they pollute the city without caring about anything or anyone, they are sellouts of Noxus.

in other hand wants progress for his city and Valoran, he has never forced someone to be part of the Glorious Evolution... Sure, he has done some bad things in order to reach his goal and the rest of the quotes towards him are... okay... but "You're everything wrong with Zaun." is too much.

Edit: Thanks for the replies... A lot of you have said many things that i agree... so, Im happy with the answers.

45 Comments

SharjoMay 13, 201519 votes

He is a very driven man though, to the point of disregarding things like humanity, emotions and morals. That's the point. Ekko likely doesn't mind that Viktor seeks to improve people's lives through techmaturgical enhancement, it's that he doesn't care for the consequences and will do ANYTHING if it's needed. He respects intelligence more than he does basic human decency. He's blinded by his ambition to the point of being just as maniacal as the worst criminals in Zaun, at least from Ekko's perspective.

In other words Viktor's too extreme, too inhuman. That's the problem Ekko sees with Zaun; it's to inhuman a place but it was built by and for humans.

Ebonmaw DragonMay 13, 201512 votes

{quoted}

He is a very driven man though, to the point of disregarding things like humanity, emotions and morals. That's the point. Ekko likely doesn't mind that Viktor seeks to improve people's lives through techmaturgical enhancement, it's that he doesn't care for the consequences and will do ANYTHING if it's needed. He respects intelligence more than he does basic human decency. He's blinded by his ambition to the point of being just as maniacal as the worst criminals in Zaun, at least from Ekko's perspective.

In other words Viktor's too extreme, too inhuman. That's the problem Ekko sees with Zaun; it's to inhuman a place but it was built by and for humans.

I know that he is not the best person ever, but Viktor cant be "everything wrong with Zaun" and "**part **of the problem" at the same time. Even after replacing the most of his weak emotions, he still way more "human" than a selfish individual like Singed Singed who kills thousands of allies in order to win a war for another city state just because they pay him money.

And... Ekko has quotes towards almost all the Zaunites (Janna, Zac, Mundo, Viktor, Jinx, Vi, Twitch) and all the people from Piltover... but no quotes towards Singed? Come on Ekko dont ignore the bald guy. (Warwick as well.... but his lore is not that connected with Zaun)

SharjoMay 13, 201512 votes

To Ekko though, a boy who doesn't know what Viktor's been through and doesn't have the same perspective, yeah he is the problem. Ekko doesn't know about Viktor's own suffering and why is ambition is so strong, he perceives Viktor like the rest of the scum of Zaun; inhuman, uncaring, self righteous, in it for themselves.

Ekko doesn't know Viktor well enough to know better like we do!

RiotMeddlerMay 14, 201518 votes

{quoted}

To Ekko though, a boy who doesn't know what Viktor's been through and doesn't have the same perspective, yeah he is the problem. Ekko doesn't know about Viktor's own suffering and why is ambition is so strong, he perceives Viktor like the rest of the scum of Zaun; inhuman, uncaring, self righteous, in it for themselves.

Ekko doesn't know Viktor well enough to know better like we do!

That's a pretty key part of this to me to. Ekko doesn't have the big picture view we do as players, so what he sees when he looks at Viktor's potentially pretty different. Some of Viktor's most defining traits (highly intelligent, inventor, driven) are also things Ekko shares, so the clash of values assumedly offends Ekko more as a result than it does with other Zaunites he doesn't think highly of either.

ULTRAF0RCEMay 14, 20159 votes

So in this case its the opposite of the Bard stuff where it goes from being too big picture for most to almost too small picture according to some I guess.

test accountMay 14, 20152 votes

I like this a lot. All I had to say. There are a lot of reasons, but I like this a lot.

XenohazMay 14, 20152 votes

Yeah, when viewed by most outside observers (like us!) Viktor comes off as a basically good person, or at the very least a morally dubious person with good intentions, not unlike Xerath. Granted, this comparison is less accurate after the Shurima lore event, but you get the idea. However, that's only because we know that he robotized himself to remove his own crippling depression and jealousy, and that he truly sees his Glorious Evolution as beneficial to all.

Most people who live in Valoran probably don't see that. They just see a terrifyingly ambitious maniac who seeks to literally take away their humanity and turn them into unfeeling machines. Plus, I wouldn't expect the average Zaunite to bother looking deeper for details after "Oh look, another mad scientist." I imagine that after living in Zaun, you don't see the need to care beyond that.

ArcyvilkMay 15, 20155 votes

The way I look at this part of lore:

The whole Pididily case left Viktor shattered in pieces. Not only he got his opus magnum stolen, it probably made him forcefully realise how naïve he and his dream about "better society" was. Depression started devouring his mind to the point he wasn't able to endure himself anymore; he probably came to a conclusion that he just has to reject himself to get rid of heavy emotions eating him alive, somehow found the strenght to put that in practice (every person that experienced depression knows how hard it is to force yourself to even wake up.) and it actually turned out to be the cure. Machines are perfect, they feel no grief nor pain; he felt better, and now wants YOU to see that you can feel better as well.

And yet, everyone is looking at him seeing only a weirdo that cut off his own limbs to make himself a robot. It doesn't matter that he isn't forcing anyone to follow the path of Glorious Evolution, it doesn't matter how much he had to suffer to became what he is now: he is surely just mad and going to turn the humanity into machines against their will! Ekko, as a street teenager, surely values free will over everything and as such Viktor's goals seem unbearable for him.

If you ask me, that's actually pretty sad.

Razgriz990May 14, 20154 votes

I love the compare/contrast from Viktor and Tesla. Both created wonders to improve mankind, and both were robbed. The biggest difference imo would be post mental breakdown. Tesla was decimated it took a long time to recover his drive to invent once again, and he did so in seclusion, creating our modern modern technology in the shadows. While keeping his humanity. Viktor on the other hand had something change inside of him... his humanity and emotions were something of an obstacle, so he deleted them, and became a cyborg "God" bent on improving himself and others.

Neither are evil, but both were very misunderstood.

Variks the LoyalMay 13, 201516 votes

I think it may be meant for Singed, the League wiki gets those quotes wrong sometimes when a champ is first released. It currently has Ekko's quote, "Hey, sellout!" tied to Zac, even though that makes no sense.

It couldn't figure out half of Sion's lines for a while.

NeameanMay 13, 20156 votes

I think it fits because he is the byproduct of everything wrong with Zaun. If the Zaun ways didn't happen to him he would of become something else. The path that Viktor is on was cause by everything that is wrong with Zaun.

The SoulforgedMay 13, 20155 votes

Agreed. Viktor is the nice guy who went crazy after his work was stolen from him. He's the nicest person in Zuan who still fits the persona except Zac.

cshakesMay 14, 20153 votes

Janna is from Zaun, too. :(

The SoulforgedMay 14, 20152 votes

I was thinking of her, but she really doesn't fit the zuan persona as much as viktor or zac. One reason why many people don't know that she's from Zuan.

cshakesMay 15, 20153 votes

Honestly then she just needs an actual personality that's not just wind puns and a joke that references prostitution. Rito pls?

GreenLoreMay 13, 20155 votes

I think it is funny how you assume that Viktor never forced anyone to join his glorious evolution. Sure we were never told that he'd force anyone.But we were never told that he wouldn't either.

keep in mind Viktor purged himself from most of his emotions,so he most likely won't feel sympathy for others,if someone stands his glorious evolution in the way and he is able to erase this obstacle,then he will do it no matter how,because that is how a machine works,efficient without any regards for morality.

Also the quote can be seen in multiple ways,I mean Viktor turned out this way because of his depression about his inventions getting stolen,so yeah he himself is also a victim of the zaunite law,so he represents both sides of Zaun,the guys who take their scientifics advancements too far and the ones who have to suffer under the zaunite laws.

BrothaMay 14, 20154 votes

So I now main another champion who hates Viktor .

I don't understand how he has the fan base that he does, he was a pathetic man before and is now an insane cyborg bent on turning the world into robots.

Evolution is about the new stronger taking out the old weaker. It's only a matter of time before that nutjob starts trying to phase out humans. Probably around the Battlecast period, hence the resistance existing.

Edit: Needs moar downvotes for stating opinion.

Also >implying you cant decide to main a champ after playing it on the PBE or reading it's skillset.

junglerboy16May 14, 201515 votes

STEAMPUNK cyborg. That makes all the difference to me, and the crazy aspect of his character just makes him that much more compelling.

That said, how can you main Ekko before he's even released? I mean, I'm also definitely looking forward to playing him, but nobody mains him yet.

Daedalus871May 14, 201523 votes

Noob, I started maining Ekko 50 years ago.

Icestar1186May 14, 201512 votes

Temporal shenanigans were involved, I assume?

Chaotic ReksMay 14, 20157 votes

somebody said Shen ?

junglerboy16May 14, 20154 votes

Sorry, I hadn't gotten hold of him way back then. I'm not a total noob anymore, I've got 30 years with him under my belt :D

ElJanitorFrankMay 14, 20156 votes

Viktor main/lore nerd here. The reason people like VIktor is because he's grey. He went crazy because he had something precious stolen from him, some of the most revolutionary technology ever, he created sentient life out of metal. He had that stolen, and with it basically his dignity. So he went a bit mad, locked himself in his room, and came out as Viktor, the Machine Herald. No one can take credit for that.

He pretty much wiped all of his emotions that day. Viktor did it because he faced some seriously negative emotions when he got back stabbed like that. He figured that bad emotions are bad, so he should take them out. He kept on doing stuff like this, taking away unnecessary things and adding more beneficial things (lazors are beneficial, trust me) and he eventually came to the conclusion: Machines are superior.

So now his goal is to help the world, in his own eyes. He isn't trying to destroy anything, he is trying to upgrade and make everything better. As far as we know, every single human participant who got upgraded by Viktor, sought Viktor out themselves because they felt inferior and decided an upgrade would do them some good.

The only unwilling participants I can think of are the void creatures, who are hell-bent on destroying Valoran in the first place, so... And I know it looks like they're blowing up buildings and shit in their splashes, but the Battlecast skin line is basically a parallel universe, not actually Viktor.

BrothaMay 15, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Viktor main/lore nerd here. The reason people like VIktor is because he's grey. He went crazy because he had something precious stolen from him, some of the most revolutionary technology ever, he created sentient life out of metal. He had that stolen, and with it basically his dignity. So he went a bit mad, locked himself in his room, and came out as Viktor, the Machine Herald. No one can take credit for that.

He pretty much wiped all of his emotions that day. Viktor did it because he faced some seriously negative emotions when he got back stabbed like that. He figured that bad emotions are bad, so he should take them out. He kept on doing stuff like this, taking away unnecessary things and adding more beneficial things (lazors are beneficial, trust me) and he eventually came to the conclusion: Machines are superior.

So now his goal is to help the world, in his own eyes. He isn't trying to destroy anything, he is trying to upgrade and make everything better. As far as we know, every single human participant who got upgraded by Viktor, sought Viktor out themselves because they felt inferior and decided an upgrade would do them some good.

The only unwilling participants I can think of are the void creatures, who are hell-bent on destroying Valoran in the first place, so... And I know it looks like they're blowing up buildings and shit in their splashes, but the Battlecast skin line is basically a parallel universe, not actually Viktor.

So basically he thinks he is doing good, in a sense. Alright I can understand that and respect that. Thank you for taking the time to write that out and explain it. I still dislike him, but at least now I see why SOME people may like that kind of character.

ElJanitorFrankMay 15, 20152 votes

No problem, I really enjoy typing stuff like that out, it helps me sort my thoughts out.

And that's one of the things I love about Viktor the most, actually, he isn't seen by most as good, or seen by most as bad, he's in a grey area. Someone like Sion? Bad. Garen? Mostly good. But Viktor is pretty much in the middle.

333lomMay 17, 20154 votes

Hello, Viktor main/lore nerd here as well! I'd like to say thank you for writing this. People like Viktor exactly because he's gray. It's the same reason why those people didn't pick Jayce as their favourite character - it's because Jayce is a goody-two-shoes, "perfect" in every sense. Not just because he trashed Viktor's image even further.

The Machine Herald is in a great spot, looking all evil on the surface for those who like it that way, simple and stereotypical, but for those who want to know more, who don't judge people by the first impression, he shows that he's a very complex character, who genuinely wants to help the world.

If he didn't have any moral at all, he would have taken revenge on professor Stanwick. But he didn't do even that. Viktor tested his augments on himself first, not using unwilling human guinea-pigs. He was a naive, bright-eyed student who believed he could clean Zaun when he was building Blitzcrank with his team. Some people dismiss all this, and simply say "he went insane (okay, yes he did), and now wants total world domination and eradication of human race. The end, I vote for Jayce!" Well It's up to everyone to decide for themselves. I like Viktor because he's not loved by all as well. But he definitely isn't planning on destroying the human race, the very thing he is trying to help.

Sorry for this rant, I just.. left it here in case anyone's interested to read it.

Ethereal311May 14, 20154 votes

Viktor "Gyeh, although I admire your attempts at correcting your mistakes, you fail to see the merits of getting something right within the first three times, not the first twenty. There are ancient and malicious things, from abyss and man alike, that lurk out there. And when they come, you will desperately try to save everyone, only to fail as you watch the world burn at their feet."

I agree with you regarding Viktor (which is something that has been talked about in the thread already), that he isn't necessarily the absolute bad guy, but he's more of a Chaotic Neutral sort of person. I don't exactly trust Jayce's lore that much considering that it's so aggressive and his actions did much more harm than Viktor would have done (at least from what I can tell). Ekko and Viktor are mirror images of each other in some regards, as Viktor has seen the problems with the system while Ekko is (from what we can currently judge) focused on his own objective of creating a new Zaun, the old Zaun that he and his friends could live in (which is already extremely childish). Viktor knows that dream is already extremely hard, and won't be solved by beating up Bad Guys 1-20 in any sort of order. Its a social thing, and society doesn't work well with the ruling club... sword... thing... as its king (it doesn't stop it, but in such a developed city like Zaun I doubt that one single guy can stand against a cyanide pill).

Chaotic ReksMay 14, 20151 votes

i read this in Viktor 's voice...

junglerboy16May 14, 20153 votes

Part of it could also be that he's not saying Viktor himself is the problem, but more that he sympathizes that he is left as a cracked and mentally altered version of his former genius due to the corruption of Zaun. Zaun was bad to Viktor, and Ekko is stating as much, not that he is the bad guy, but rather that all the bad that has happened to/happens in Zaun is represented within Viktor's identity.

MidEvilKnight3kMay 14, 20153 votes

Being "everything wrong with Zaun" does not mean you have to be the worst person in Zaun. There are definitely criminals that do terrible things, but as a whole the society does not support it, so it isn't so much a problem with Zaun as it is a problem with a few criminals.

Viktor, on the other hand, is not just a criminal. He is someone who strives to make technological advancements, often at the expense of any ethical concerns. This might not be as bad as other criminals, but it is closer to what is wrong with Zaun as a whole (the place of unchecked experiments).

ElJanitorFrankMay 14, 20153 votes

I wish I could link the thread, but I have forgotten it, but it went a little somethin' like this:

That 'Random Zaun Guy' that Ekko was fighting seemed to have very familiar technology Urgot on him, no?

Who's technology is that? Viktor's. Albeit, a primitive version of Viktor's. Viktor moved on from that biological-goo looking stuff, he's got more impressive pieces...but you know who isn't as smart as Viktor, and stole his ideas in order to revive Urgot, using this technology? Stanwick Pididly. The thread I was talking about basically hypothesized that Stanwick sent that guy to Ekko, most likely just to get the technology (Stanwick doesn't seem like much an inventor, huh?) but he also could have simply been framing Viktor by doing it. And even if he wasn't intentionally framing Viktor, it looks like Viktor's older technology, and would link it with Viktor in the first place.

333lomMay 17, 20151 votes

I recognized my thread by accident: Here it is.

lxlLilybellelxlMay 14, 20152 votes

VIKTOR

Tesla EffectMay 14, 20152 votes

I think he wouldnt agree with most of the Zaunite champions, cause most of them do twisted and messed up experiments. He thinks Zaun is better than that.

revliledpembrokeMay 14, 20152 votes

Yeah, Viktor is apparently a character much beloved by people around the boards, but he seems to be, lore wise, a very simple B-movie type villain. Practically the only way to make Viktor more of a villain would be either to make him a Communist or a German Nazi. This quote from Viktor's lore 'He withdrew from the College and barricaded himself in his private laboratory, cutting all human ties. There, in secret, he conceived a project for which nobody else could claim credit. Desiring both to revolutionize his field and to eliminate the jealous human emotions which festered inside him, he engineered parts to replace and improve his own body. When Viktor re-emerged, almost no trace of the original man remained. Not only had he supplanted the majority of his anatomy, but his personality had changed. His previous hope to better society was replaced by an obsession with what he called ''the glorious evolution."' is about the same as the plot of at least thirty separate B-movies. More lore here "His transformation had stripped him of what he perceived as his emotional weaknesses, but there was some lingering residue of resentment against the Professor." You know what other scientist eliminated emotional weaknesses? Well, here's a quote from Wikipedia as they discuss a mad scientist in a very popular British T.V show..."Davros realizes that contamination from the nuclear and biological weapons used in the war is mutating the Kaled race, and artificially accelerates the process to examine the ultimate** evolutionary **end product. The mutations are weak and crippled, no more than one-eyed brains with tentacular appendages and with no hope of survival on their own. His solution is to remove all emotions pertaining to weakness (a category in which he groups such emotions as compassion, mercy and kindness) and place the mutants in tank-like "Mark III travel machines" partly based on the design of his wheelchair. He later names these creatures Daleks, an anagram of Kaleds. Davros quickly becomes obsessed with his creations, considering them to be the ultimate form of life, superior to all others. To stop his own people from shutting down his Dalek project, he arranges for them to be wiped out by the Thals, then blames their destruction on a scientist that opposed him, having the Daleks kill them." So, the creator of one of the most evil races in all of Doctor Who was a scientist who wanted to see where this "glorious evolution" led, decided the natural evolution was not glorious enough, and thus worthless, so he removed their emotions, put them in machines, became obsessed with his creation and considered them the ultimate lifeform. Where have we heard that before?

AelvrMay 14, 20151 votes

I think what Ekko means is that the Viktor's ideology, while in itself more innocent, epitomizes the values that have turned Zaun into a cesspool of violence and degeneration. You know, #slipperyslope.

Edit: that is, Ekko may see Warwick, Singed, and Mundo as merely following the brokenness of Zaun without really being in a position to question whether it is worthy or not; they are simply psychopaths. Viktor, on the other hand, is still in control of his thoughts, and is able to think critically about why he is doing what he is doing, but still chooses to be a villain out of self-righteousness. Viktor is an egoist; Ekko is an altruist.

ArcyvilkMay 15, 20152 votes

I wouldn't call Viktor an egoist. He removed his emotions that he considered flaws, suddenly felt much better than before and came to a conclusion that this actually could be the cure for the whole, defective mankind. I fail to see anything egoistic, nor villainous here. Until he isn't forcing anyone to join his Glorious Evolution, and as far as we know he isn't, he is a Chaotic Neutral type of character for me.

XareavMay 14, 20151 votes

I think what he's saying is that Viktor represents technological progress at the expense of humanity. If not for people like him, there would be no market or tolerance for people like Mundo, Singed, and Warwick. The pursuit of power in the absence of temperance and/or morals is what he's criticizing, and Viktor is a prime example of that. I also love the one user's explanation of how Viktor could be future Ekko, farfetched as it sounds.

ConnceptMay 14, 20151 votes

I think it has less to do with morals, and more to do with freedom. While Mundo and Singed do kill and other absolutely horrendous things, they do so in full Zaunite style, in pursuit of self enjoyment, improvement, discovery, or some life goal. Progress ignoring cost to others and without limitation is Zauns principle ideal after all, and such progress is usually motivated by emotion or personal gain rather than discovery.

Viktor on the other hand, wishes for more than just self improvement and exercises control over others not for his own enjoyment (he doesn't even really feel joy anymore) or to pursue his own goals or interests, but exercises control for the sake of control. His mechanical evolution on the world is his ultimate vision, not any personal project or discovery, he wishes to force organization upon the chaos that Zaun sees as a bastion of freedom and unmitigated improvement, and THAT betrays Zauns twisted vision of 'freedom' and 'progress' more than any amount of murder and mayhem.

ArcyvilkMay 15, 20154 votes

How does he not feel joy, he literally laughs out loud every time he melts someone's face with a lazor!

ConnceptMay 15, 20151 votes

Well according to his lore, one of the principal purposes of his mechanical upgrades are to remove his own emotions.

Wind WhistlerJun 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

How does he not feel joy, he literally laughs out loud every time he melts someone's face with a lazor!

It isn't stated which emotions he removed.

ArcyvilkJun 11, 20151 votes

I believe he removed only these responsible for his depression. His quotes still feel pretty passionate.

SlackerboyTCMay 15, 20151 votes

He's just a character with a limited pov

Shiro KiranMay 22, 20151 votes

I kinda like the Tesla + Dr. Doom vibe he's got going on.

For those of you who don't know about Doom-- he's not actually evil, just morally ambiguous. He has seen all potential futures, and the only one where all of mankind survives is the one where he rules the world. So he's trying to take over the world in order to save it.

Tesla of course being the foreign-born (see: foreign accent) genius who had his inventions stolen, his ideas discredited, and his name debased. (Until the future when we realized that his ideas were pretty awesome) He proceeded to work in solitude on whatever-project-I-forget-the-story.