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@Rioters whats with your vendetta against bandits and robbers?

La Bello··20 votes·11,494 views

Are you guys trying to send some sort of subliminal message or ulterior motive? Seriously the amount of stories where "bad guys" get slaughtered or killed is so ridiculously disproportionate to the ones where innocent people get attacked or hurt are to the point that even confirmed villains likeCassiopeia are doing it.

It feels like its being written by a kid who watches too much saturday morning cartoons and whole heartedly bought into the whole "good will always triumph" lesson shoe-horned in at the end.

Every other story Im reading in these new bios is nothing but Champions using their crazy ingame powers to beat down or kill a bunch of sell-swords, thugs or petty thieves.

Fiddlesticks kills some robbers LeeSin kills some robbers Leona kills some raiders Ekko beats up thugs in his cinematic Caitlyn Caitlyn shot some smugglers hand off Vi beats up now handless smuggler Jayce beats up some mechanical bad guys Ahri kills some noxian bad guys Pantheon kills some hired mercs Zac beats up some badguys Warwick went from being a absolutely deplorable person to a tragic vigilante and furred crusader Tristana blows up some people trying to rob her Shen Shen kills some "evil" clerics/priest

Whats next? Is Jinx's new lore going to be that shes some sort of Robin Hood who makes sure to only inconvenience those that can afford it in Piltover or something? Will her completely sociopathic and self serving tendencies be totally done away with? Will Nocturne and Shaco Only go after pedophiles or drug dealers now? Is making all Villains into tragic villains the new hotness?Renekton Cassiopeia Xerath Gangplank Viktor Warwick Zed are now just misunderstood tragic villains who had some sort of past trauma that led to them being the way that they are. Good old fashion lust for power or world domination is dead and gone now it seems.

It feels like absolutely no innocent blood shed by champions on Runeterra ever outside of Shadow Isle/Void shenanigans? I like Riots lore and all and was really excited to hear that you guys would be giving it more attention but the new stories and bios are just getting predictable, uninteresting and eye-rolling because I already know going in that there's a 70% chance the story is going to involve some random group of baddies getting the smackdown.

106 Comments

Sharjo19 votes

They're easy cannon fodder who no one realistically will give a shit about, and it helps explore the powers and mindset of the champions. Keep in mind that we play as these champions in a combat situation, so seeing how they work in such an environment in the lore itself is helpful in understanding who they are.

Most of these short stories aren't meant to be major story progression (even though they can exactly that), they exist to put the character in the setting and establish who they are and how they work, and a lot of these champions have to fight and kill at times for one reason or another.

As an added bonus it shows how the world views these champions to a degree by showing ordinary folks come in to contact with them and be shown up.

Whyte Lyon5 votes

Yeah imagine if our very first introduction to CaitlynJayce{{champion:254}LeeSinEkkoZac since the retcon started with them losing their "good guy/gal" personalities in favor of physically punishing or straight up killing people that didn't deserve it?

That would straight up alienate fans of those champs and the up roar from the community would be tremendous!

LordGeovanni3 votes

Im pretty sure the point was that you already have champs like these why is everyone else now a carbon copy of them

La Bello4 votes

You mean like how Leona "the great defender" and "the shield is mightier than the sword" became "Burn them ALL let NONE SURVIVE" in her story?

Or like how LeeSin outright killed some robbers instead of crippling them EVEN after they begged for thier life and promised to never return and EVEN THOUGH Lee knew one of them was living on borrowed time anyway?

RiotRiotJaredan4 votes

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

EROTIC RAID BOSS4 votes

that all makes sense but pls try to come up with some new non-merc cannon fodder. its a little overdone. even sivir, a merc, fights other mercs in her story rather than, say, guards or something

Cinis9 votes

{quoted}

They're easy cannon fodder who no one realistically will give a shit about, and it helps explore the powers and mindset of the champions. Keep in mind that we play as these champions in a combat situation, so seeing how they work in such an environment in the lore itself is helpful in understanding who they are.

Most of these short stories aren't meant to be major story progression (even though they can exactly that), they exist to put the character in the setting and establish who they are and how they work, and a lot of these champions have to fight and kill at times for one reason or another.

As an added bonus it shows how the world views these champions to a degree by showing ordinary folks come in to contact with them and be shown up.

I disagree - aside from that the poor champs are easy cannon fodder. The lore that Riot is producing right now doesn't add anything to the characters we experience in game /because/ these stories are about fighting and killing (bad guys). Short stories focused on fighting and killing are duplicating the game, not adding to it. If we have Jayce running around in game swinging a giant hammer it takes no work or imagination to imagine him running around a city swinging a giant hammer or running around swinging a giant hammer at robots or whatever.

All of these vanilla pieces that seem like the writers spent more time with a thesaurus than an editor are a bunch of wasted opportunities.

Like, contrast what Riot is doing with what Magic: The Gathering has. Magic has really high quality pieces that showcase character and tell stories and make you really connected to the flavorful cards - and a lot of it /isn't/ action sequences. When MTG posts a story, my friends will actually message saying that there was an update and then we can sit around at FNM and talk about how much we like Chandra and her cinnamon roll or Jace's cloak closet.

League of Legends has a bunch of random oneshots about characters who for years have been established as "good" guys beating people up.

Poor Leona who went from being a pacifist support whose raison d'etre was not killing to being... uh... grrr rawr kill raiders?

tbh im probs just really salty because i used to love this game because of its lore (and i used to write a lot of fanfic for it) and the quality has spiraled so hard and the characters have turned to cardboard and it's making the game a lot less fun and i don't want to write fic for it anymore because i used to put literally hundreds of hours into it but now if i do that everything will just get reconned to shit under my feet

Chromatic Eagle6 votes

Leona wasn't rawr kill raiders. She was ending a threat to her people before they gathered a larger army.

LegoLogos4 votes

The point being made was that Leona's entire motivations and defining characteristic as a person was that she was a pacifist--to a point of fault. She refused to fight even when her own life was on the line in original lore, and it can be argued that she didn't act when she perhaps should have against the Solari elders and how they were treating Diana.

This makes her character then feel incredibly hollow when Riot's "new" lore completely disregards that. New Leona then feels like an imposter--she looks like Leona, is called Leona, but seems to share none of the defining characteristics that made Leona, well, Leona.

It's like the concept of AUs that you see in fandom all the time, except it feels like a failed front in that regard. Fandoms love creating AUs, toying with this idea that you can change the setting or times but that you can still insert the characters and they will shine through as who they are. It feels like Riot has completely lost the characters though, and it's incredibly disheartening for the playerbase and fans who actually did follow and care about the lore prior to now. I understand the desire to make things new and fresh, but when you change the core concepts behind a champ's personality or driving motivations, that's not reworking or tweaking the champ, it's simply creating a new persona that happens to share the same name and physical appearance...which is not what a lot of people wanted. Change isn't a bad thing, but change for the sake of change with no regard to what drives and defines the original character is just...disappointing at best.

La Bello3 votes

But why wasn't Vi piece about how she used her Gauntlets to save all the miners from the cave in ?

Does LeeSin not have any other interesting stories to tell besides killing people with his bare hands/feet? I think a lot of people really liked the entire "he sat still burning for days in protest" bit that he did in his old lore that showed how trained and badass he was and gave us a whole lot more background to his motives and morals.

Rammus who was neither evil nor good but was purely neutral is now some sort of desert kid protector who appears to those that have his toy or something?

WHY shoehorn a fight into Ahri story when you could've made it about her summoning the courage to facade as a human during a festival and taking in all the wondrous parts of human society before having to leave reluctantly showing us JUST how badly she wants to be human and why she reveres them so much?

I really would've liked Fiddlesticks piece to be about his creation or hints to his origins rather than some random guy who gets eviscerated by him. Why does fiddlesticks choose to protect that ONE plot of land? is he bound to it? why do the birds obey his command? Fiddlesticks runs on "wynchfire" which i guess means "witch-fire" so then where is the witch that created him? Did she die? Does Fiddlesticks need souls to keep himself alive? WHY does he even kill people? Sheer malevolence or was he commanded to do so by an unseen (maybe long gone) force?

All these stories are leaving a lot of questions un answered and instead just giving us these generic stories showcasing their abilities.

Robertsmash4 votes

{quoted}

WHY shoehorn a fight into Ahri story when you could've made it about her summoning the courage to facade as a human during a festival and taking in all the wondrous parts of human society before having to leave reluctantly showing us JUST how badly she wants to be human and why she reveres them so much?

Not gonna lie, that sounds like an amazing story. I already want to read it. I'm not even an Ahri fan and I know that this, if well-written, would be one of my favorite pieces in the entire lore.

Ralanr2 votes

Color texts are usually detailing something they are doing rather than what they have done. It's putting the character in a situation and seeing how they play out.

Basically a glimpse into their daily routine.

Sharjo4 votes

Most of these short stories aren't meant to be major story progression (even though they can exactly that), they exist to put the character in the setting and establish who they are and how they work, and a lot of these champions have to fight and kill at times for one reason or another.

Just repeating again for emphasis but to just elaborate on what I mean; these short stories are classified by Riot as "Colour Text" and exist as a means of seeing how the champion operates in the setting itself. Nothing about these stories is made with the intention of being a defining moment in their history, though that can and has worked in the past with instances such as Azir, Xerath, Illaoi, Renekton and Taliyah. As an example, look at Camille's colour text "Tea with the Grey Lady" and the short story "The Weakest Heart". The former story was built to showcase Camille in her element, to effectively show her off in the narrative. The latter story was a key moment in her life. These stories were made with different goals in mind, as one is a window in to the character's daily life, a window in to their thoughts and actions, while the other is a chapter in their story.

Colour Text is a showcase of a champion in a condensed narrative. Having champions excercising their power against random mooks works well for this as it provides an avenue for letting them strut their stuff in an environment that is appropriate for them. You could effectively title every colour text "A day in the life of X", because that's the whole point of their existence and why they're so much shorter than Riot's larger narrative endeavours like Progress Day, Burning Tides, Bloodline, The Bird and the Branch, Shadow and Fortune, The Weakest Heart and City of Iron and Glass.

TL;DR Colour Text exists to put the character in the setting and show them off. They pit champs against random mooks for this purpose.

Tattersall4 votes

Okay, sorry to be nitpicky, but Rammus is still completely neutral. That thing with the kid in his story was literally just coincidence, or maybe just a plot element to allow a narrator into the story. Rammus was just hungry. Again, sorry for being nitpicky.

Oh, and while we're at it, Shen is also completely neutral. Or at least, he's trying to be. The Cleric/Priest guy wasn't evil, he wasn't doing anything evil, he was just upsetting the balance.

"Good and evil are not truths. They are born from men and each sees the shades differently." ― Master Kusho

RiotRiotJaredan7 votes

Personally, I wouldn't call Cass a 'straight up villain.' She's not exactly a hero either, but she thought she was doing her best for her family and Noxus (and, herself, of course), which led her into something awful.

LankPants2 votes

Isn't that basically a tragic villain? I think it's fair to say that a lot of the villains in league can be classified as tragic villains.

RiotRiotJaredan5 votes

I think Cass can sway between hero or villain depending on perspective and circumstances.

Chromatic Eagle1 votes

Do you any plans on making villains that aren't monsters? Say, more Mundos than Threshs.

RiotRiotJaredan3 votes

Yes.

Sexy Jack Rabbit4 votes

Cassiopeia has not placement in being called a Villain or a Hero. She's literally all self gain. Selfishness =/= Evil. Selflessness =/= Good.

Catwoman is an Anti-hero. She'll beat up an abuser and then rob a bank.

Harley Quinn is an Anti-villain. She'll shoot an innocent man, but then murder Joker.

(The difference here being an Anti-hero lacks heroic tendencies, but still follows a moral. Anti-villains can have heroic tendencies, but will not follow any moral.)

In Cass's lore I haven't seen any indication she's doing anything for any reason besides self gain for both her and her family. So as a result I can't see how she fits into either niche as a Hero or a Villain.

Cinis5 votes

{quoted}

Personally, I wouldn't call Cass a 'straight up villain.' She's not exactly a hero either, but she thought she was doing her best for her family and Noxus (and, herself, of course), which led her into something awful.

But now she's wandering around Noxus killing bad guys? W H Y. The "urge to hunt"? The short story the lore team (meaning who? the lack of attribution to the stories is really weird - and you can tell when some of the stuff that's written is honest to god lower quality writing) came up with for her doesn't explain why she she chose that particular guy to kill.

The fact that he's some kind of child predator doesn't explain why Cassiopeia would decide to kill him over anyone else and it feels like I'm reading something meant for elementary school kids that I'm expected to accept a motive that thin.

Cassiopeia going out of her way to target a child murderer makes her a shallow character.

It would have made more sense for her character for her to have killed more randomly - and it would not have made her a "straight up villain" if it were executed properly by supplying more pathos and motive.

Why would Cassiopeia care about random murderers killing children? If you stop and think about the organization of Noxus and Cassiopeia's background, it's not actually a logical imperative that she take an interest in the welfare of street people. She was an aristocrat in a society that values individual strength (I assume it still does - everything is being retconned these days). If you assume that her old lore still holds somewhat true, then her pre-snake life revolved around plots involving very high status people, if not straight up focusing on seducing them. Street children are not "her people." She wouldn't have spent a lot of time around them, she wouldn't benefit from their well-being, she might very well not even know how they live.

If you think she's similar to her sister, Katarina, then (considering the mood of Katarina's character and her in game lines) it's a stretch to suppose that Cassiopeia is hunting murderers out of the goodness of her heart.

If you think she's dissimilar to her sister and does care about people - then, okay, sure, but you need to do the work to show that. Stabbing Sivir in the back doesn't really support it.

And if you think that being turned into a snake made her heart grow a few sizes - okay, but her canon lore gives absolutely no indication of that?

And if you think she's murdering murders because no one will care - that wasn't a reason given in the story (and if we imagine that Noxus is focused on individual strength, what kind of government system would that create? Would that system lend itself to a modern and effective police force? Probably not - policing is actually a really recent phenomenon - but, then, the lore these days is doing some really serious "it's fantasy, it doesn't have to make sense" like with how Noxus is an effective military despite seeming disorganized when all of military history has been leading towards more highly organized armies on account of their efficacy - so whatever I guess).

Cassiopeia isn't a villain or a hero because she's not a person.

She doesn't make sense.

She has no depth.

She's motivated by desires that we're told about, not shown, and even then we're not told everything.

Chromatic Eagle2 votes

Based on her old lore and the Shurima incident, it's hard to see her as anything but manipulative.

RiotRiotJaredan5 votes

She is manipulative, but that doesn't mean she's a straight up villain. There are times she's being manipulative purely for her own gain, others when she's protecting her family, others for the good of Noxus. Her ability to manipulate doesn't speak to her motivation. Is it a negative trait? Absolutely. But it isn't everything about her.

For another example, Kat kills people. She's also respected and a hero to most of those who know her in Noxus. She doesn't kill for petty reasons. Kat kills because it's necessary, to protect her empire, her people, her family. I don't see her as a villain. Many people don't. Others do.

Chromatic Eagle2 votes

I'll rephrase. Caring about her family (even Talon?), and her nation's status is fine, but hunting a killer of innocents doesn't seem like something that'd be in character for a manipulative spy. If anything, wouldn't that guy be praised for culling the weak?

duckarp3 votes

Which villain (or even a real-life "bad" person) genuinely thinks he is doing a really bad thing? Literally every "villain" believes he's doing what's best/correct. Either for personal gain or for others, it doesn't matter. That way he/she protects own ego and justifies even the biggest atrocities.

Agonys Embrace7 votes

What I want to know is why Warwicks lore has taken such a supreme 180. I'm so tired of being told by riot that they intend to keep the core of the character alive when the lore team does the exact opposite. Sometimes I wonder if they even bother to look up what they are writing about before they put pen to paper. Warwick isnt even the only one who has taken a complete 180 but ill just focus on him.

Why is he no longer a blood hunter of his own choosing? Why is he now a gangster who is experimented on by singed? Who might I remind was his friend in the old lore. Why is he a vigilante? Is he not supposed to be a feral beast? Why does he hunt criminals? How would he even know the criminals from the innocents? Does he have some sort of super power to tell who is a killer and who isn't? Don't try to tell me its because they smell of blood because people wash their hands and innocents get blood on their hands too. Why are both his lore and short story so darn contradictory?

We are constantly told he is feral by the writers that he struggles with himself, that he isn't cunning and that is how Rengar and Warwick are different. Rengar is a clever, cunning hunter and Warwick isn't. Did you even read what you wrote before it was published then? What I read was a cunning hunter leading his bait towards his prey to draw them out. He was herding her and he was thinking the ENTIRE time he was doing it. During his 'bloodrage' he was thinking the entire time.

The.Entire.Time.

That's not instinct driven.

I cant buy what im being sold because it feels like im being lied to the entire time. All of these characters ive come to love are losing the soul of who they are. Warwick is no longer a deplorable jerk who chose his own path. Leona is no longer a pacifist. Diana is no longer a spite filled warrior of the moon. I've come to dread reworks for one reason and one reason only.

The lore.

Ranting into the void feels good...I guess.

SuddenAntagonist6 votes

Inb4 "Lissandra Bury the world in ice" turns into "Save the penguins from poachers!" Or something equally dissatisfying.

On a more serious note. I love the new Warwick, love the login theme, love the way the story was written, but I agree on the content being a little hard to swallow. When he was indiscriminately killing, I bought that. When he recognized something that triggered bad memories, I bought that. When he acted cunning and sneaky, I thought it was a little more iffy, but still worked for the most part. When I realized he went vigilante on Zaun, you lost me. Predators are cunning and will use bait to attract more meat. Predators DO NOT care about the motivations of the meat though. He retains memories, yes, but they're lost in a blood haze and only triggered by certain things. Indiscriminate meat puppets are not the thing that is going to trigger "Good guy Warwick".

RiotRiotJaredan9 votes

He has enough of his humanity to make moral decisions when he's not in full beast mode. He tries to aim himself like a missile, but he's not always sure what will happen when he explodes. Once he loses it, when he's subsumed into the predator, all bets are off.

patmax172 votes

Will we ever see him face the aftermath of a hunt where he "misses"? (e.g. finding the dead girl of the story, knowing he's the murderer?) I think it would be interesting to see what he feels in that moments. Does he feel pain? Is he guilty? Relieved? Does it actually still matter to him? :)

RiotRiotJaredan6 votes

I'll leave Interlocutioner to talk about how Warwick has developed, but you bring up an important aspect of who he is. When his humanity resurfaces, he's absolutely able to feel pain and guilt.

WarWork5 votes

Okay here's my question for you, How comes the chemicals in the canister on his back don't run out?

RiotInterlocutioner2 votes

His body synthesizes more chemicals from MEAT. Basically. The whole thing is an elegant feedback loop set up by Singed. Rage feeds chemicals, which feed rage. On top of that, the whole thing hurts... Which feeds rage, which feed chemicals. Etc!

Siachi1 votes

A bit of a question of my own: What would happen if the canister were to break or be damaged? Is it JUST the rage-inducing chemicals, or does it also function as a sort of life support?

Or is that something you'd want to explore later on?

RiotInterlocutioner3 votes

That does sound like a cool potential future story. What happens when the chamber breaks?

Hrm...

Thales1 votes

It seems surprising the canister hasn't gotten broken. WW may be able to regenerate, but the chemtech equipment attached to him looks like it's made of normal glass and metal. Warwick may be fast, but he's operating in a city with some guns and lots of explosives, and, contra D&D, dodging blast waves is not so much a thing.

RiotInterlocutioner2 votes

Though it looks like normal glass, it's probably been reinforced by Singed. I'd have to ask the real world Singed to confirm (that's Warwick's concept artist, The Bravo Ray). He came up with so many details for the way Warwick's augments work, he could build them in real life if he wanted to! [zombie-brand-mindblown]

Plus. It just looks cooler if you can see the chemicals, right?

WarWork1 votes

WOW ty for actually taking the time to answer me here's a heart <3

And this might just be my own interpretation, but for this story I see it as the more Warwick seems to accept himself for who/what he actually is, the more control he seems get have over himself. He made a very intricate and clever plan in his story and was carrying it out very effectively and accurately. Well until blood came into the picture.

And some small questions, Who did Warwick see when he "died", Wolf or Lamb? (I'm thinkinking that the obvious answer would be wolf, but I think for the fact he was suffering he might have welcomed death only to be forced back to the agony of being alive)

Does Warwick currently hae any allies?

I also would have loved to see his anchor for his humanity so to speak. I'm thinking it's the girl from his past but hoping she's not gonna be on of those mysteries that are never answered and left up to us to answer.

RiotInterlocutioner2 votes

It wasn't really Warwick's time, so it's possible he didn't see Wolf or Lamb. Maybe, just maybe, he saw another face as he faded away instead...

Warwick is a lone (were)wolf(batfox) at the moment, but there are definitely people in Zaun that he wouldn't just attack on sight or scent! For example, Ekko seems like someone who would give Warwick pause. He's always helping people, trying to make Zaun a better place. That might evoke memories in Warwick that he'd rather forget. They'd make embracing the beast not as simple.

Warwick and Singed are also inextricably tied now. To Warwick's keen sense, they have the same scent. They're almost brothers, in a way! And though he was brutal, Singed helped Warwick learn things about himself. They might not be allies, but they'll definitely have a relationship moving forward.

Really, these are all things that could appear in future stories. And as a team, we've committed to telling more and more of them. I can't promise anything in particular for Warwick, but I can say the mysteries aren't here to tease you. They're here to help us keep the characters alive and moving through the world, with things to learn, and challenges to overcome.

They're story hooks. Ant in Oz wrote a whole post about them!

http://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/2016/10/dev-on-story-hooks/

Thanks for the questions!

Slich Bissi1 votes

Is Warwick now 100% not at all involved in spraying Ionia in super toxic chemicals and alchemy stuff and 100% NOT Singed Alchemy Teacher/Master? Does he not have anything to do with or even know Soraka?

Also is Warwick a repentant vampire (werewolf) with a human soul trying to right the wrongs of his past? ;)

RiotInterlocutioner2 votes

Question one refers to his original lore. Which was replaced long before his rework! More recently he was a bounty hunter, who kidnapped people and sold them to scientists.

[slayer-jinx-wink]

So yeah, there are a lot of different versions of Warwick out there, and it can be hard to keep track.

Hmm. How can I turn this into a rant?

Oh, I know!

What I'd say is, League of Legends has a lot in common with comic books. These are living stories without beginning or end, with different continuities and versions of the characters.

While the impatient-eater-of-celestial-hearts, and the celebrated-master-of-Singed are no longer in the current continuity of the game, they still exist out there in the multiverse. For some people, they might even be the preferred version of the character. Myself, for example... I really like Grant Morrison's All-Star Superman more than the guy running around in tights now. And I find Millar's Red Son Superman to be a more challenging, interesting version of the character than even All-Star. It's just depressing.

And when I picture Veigar, I see him floating away from Bandle City holding a clutch of balloons. To this very day.

Sometimes iconic things like this come back to a character eventually.

They took Superman's red underwear away. Let's see if it comes back in a few years.

Hellioning2 votes

Please stop comparing League to comic books. Every time it happens, it feels like Riot is trying to say that it's okay for them to retcon things because comic books do it.

A) The biggest complaint about DC and Marvel comic books is the constant retconning makes it hard to figure out what is and isn't canon, and it's hard to feel connected to a character when it changes so much. I don't know why you want to make this game feel like that.

B) Comic books are much, much older than League. Trying to compare your narrative to something that's 10 times as old is just bad.

LegoLogos4 votes

One of the biggest bones I pick with this, though, is that all of the new lore released on Warwick is so contradictory. It's established that he wasn't a good person before Singed even experimented on him, and that Singed chose him because he could see the beast beneath Warwick's skin. So he gets experimented on, turns into this awful beast. While I can buy this idea that when he's not in bloodlust, maybe he can think and talk etc. But there's absolutely nothing to sell me on the idea that Warwick as a character is going on some sort of crusade to "clean up" Zaun?

There's no drive, no explanation to such a motivation. It's not sold to me in his character. Why on earth would he suddenly have this massive change of heart that makes him want to specifically hunt murderers when 1) he wasn't a nice guy before and 2) he's now had the beast from within brought out to the surface? The logic does not follow, and so as a reader it doesn't make me buy in and suspend my disbelief. There's no reason for me to believe that this beast of a person and a creature is suddenly going to see the light and want to do good by anyone but himself. The writing never established any reason for me to believe in his humanity or morality, so why should it make sense to me for it to suddenly come to life now when he's arguably more evil than ever? It's a weak storyline, and that sort of contradictory writing is what put me off of a lot of these character reworks, unfortunately.

RiotRiotJaredan8 votes

Here's my take of the piece—Interlocutioner can tell me I'm daffy when I'm being daffy:

Warwick (though how reasonable he is at that point is highly debatable) through a tortuous experiment, and obvious shame and hatred of the man he was (he'd apparently been trying to leave it behind to no avail), accepts the monster Singed makes him into. He does so because he thinks that maybe Singed was right: Warwick was a monster all along.

That doesn't stop him hating the monster he sees in his memory. So, after being reborn, then hunting innocents all over the place with no rhyme or reason, his human consciousness resurfaces, and he is again faced with the brutality of the man he was and the monster he is. His hatred of himself, and the other predators in Zaun like him (as he sees them) means he decides to hunt them.

When he hunts the monsters, he is feeding his bloodlust by trying to kill the monster he sees himself as. He instinctively knows who he should kill. He spent some part of his life trying to do so before. Now, with his memory and conscious mind fractured, it's become instinct.

It's an aspect of him that fuels inner conflict. Something we often strive for when developing characters.

Chromatic Eagle4 votes

I feel like you're telling us more than showing us in the story. The story could've focused more on his transition into the beast that hunts other beasts.

RiotInterlocutioner3 votes

Hi Chromatic and LegoLogos, thanks for your feedback! I'm sorry to hear that you found the story lacking and Warwick's motivation scattered and confusing. To be honest, it's been a huge challenge writing pieces for Warwick that convey a complete picture of his emotional journey, because his own memories aren't complete.

Even if they were, and I wrote them all into a story word-by-word, the bios and "color text" (Riot's weird internal term) are never the complete story of the character. They're not even my favorite part! My favorite part is when YOU ALL take Warwick, or any character, into the game, and follow them for a short time, building new stories in your head. Embodying the character. Wielding their teeth and claws and meeps. Et cetera! You all give these characters life in your imaginations. You create them, not us.

If that's not a good enough answer (it's probably not, because no answer will change how you feel and how you feel is VALID, all stories are open to interpretation, and can be better), I'll add one more thing. Runeterra is alive now. We've been to Piltover for Progress Day, we've followed a group of scamps through Zaun. Felt the cold of the Ionian snow on the stones (Taliyah! I love everything ThermalKitten writes). Expect to see more of Warwick in the future. To learn more about him and what exactly makes him tick. Find the memories he doesn't want to remember.

Each step of the way, please keep the feedback coming, we'll try to do better!

I'm going to do more thinking about heroism and villainy now.

LegoLogos2 votes

Hi Jaredan,

First off, thank you for the response! I completely understand that you all at Riot are trying hard to improve the lore and stories, and I do want to thank you for that and taking the time to respond to my comment.

I will piggy back onto the comment Chromatic Eagle made below, though, in terms of my own critical feedback (and the reason why I'm writing is because I'm hoping the people who work on lore can hear from community what we want and why we get upset about certain things). I hear entirely what you're saying above, but it does feel incredibly as though you're explaining that to me now, but it doesn't show at all in the stories or lore itself. And that it was makes the work feel very...odd and disappointing. The lore does connect us readers to this idea that Warwick as a person was trying before now to better himself; no where do the stories or writing convincingly sell to the readers this internal conflict. And when characterization isn't sold well, it makes it that much harder for readers to suspend their disbelief and emotionally connect and believe in the way a character acts based off of their impression of him. For Warwick, we are never given a good reason or showing of his character to make us believe that this is a guy with reason to want to "be better", if that makes sense.

I want to see conflict and growth--it's the core concept in making a three-dimensional and multi-layered character. But it requires the writings to make the character compelling to me first. So not being told "oh, he wanted to do better before and now wants to do better again", but being shown through the lore and stories how this champs acts and what truly drives him. That is what makes good characterization and writing.

Thanks!

Ralanr3 votes

So kinda like Krieg in Borderlands 2?

Voidzilla3 votes

I do very much enjoy that Riot is releasing stories about different Champions and giving us insight in Runeterra; it's much better than the lore-drought we had for years prior.

However, when reading some of the stories, I had the same feelings you did. Some were just the same story repeating itself to the letter: X Champion encounters Baron von Badguy & co. and kills them. I think that story's perfectly fine for someone like Caitlyn , Leona , LeeSin , and even Ahri . However, it was out of place, even a little cringey, when someone like Fiddlesticks, of all characters, was playing the role of "sweet, retribution against the villains". It just gets boring after awhile when the same exact story is repeated over and over again.

On the other hand, lore-pieces like Ekko, Orianna, and Jax's were, I think, quite good. It showed a slice of life of the character that's different from in-game, yet still recognizable, and expands upon the world around them. I think the appeal of the large cast of characters League has is precisely that not all characters are good, or even neutral. Sometimes, you want to play as the villain (like, the truly world-threatening, no redeemable qualities villains) and get inside their mindset. Mordekaiser, RekSai, and Jhin had some really fun lore-pieces that showcased their abilities and characters without just being a cookie-cutter "the evil shall pay" story.

Good, even excellent stories have been produced so far. At the same time, there have also been ones that just feel bland, un-engaging, and even lazy. I'm hoping some of these are just "warm-ups", and that we'll continue to get the more varied stories like Janna or Illaoi's, and not just Tristana or Pantheon's again.

LegoLogos2 votes

Thanks for bringing up these points. One of the big things for me is that I don't want to just come across as indiscriminately flaming the lore team. I understand they put time and work into their stories--so much of it for me (as a writer myself) is that I want to give feedback so they know how fans feel about some of their decisions, and why.

Like I think some of the stories and reworks they've done have been really cool. The Bilgewater event is a key example for me. I think you guys and gals added a massive amount of depth to pre-existing champs like Gangplank , MissFortune (minus the whole her hair turned red from blood riot plz), Graves , and TwistedFate . It was a shining example of taking characters who had previously maybe been a bit flat and tropey, and actually giving them more depth and motivations that made sense to the characters. We see the avarice and ambition of Gangplank, the revenge that drives Miss Fortune, and the greed and betrayal that warped Graves and Twisted Fate. It was, over all, an awesome job. Shurima was another good example (and I loved the stories showing the interactions between Sivir , Taliyah , and Nasus ).

Give us more of that.

But also be aware about examples that don't sit well with the playerbase and fans. Understand why people are upset about Leona suddenly not being a pacifist anymore, or Caitlyn letting a criminal go, or Warwick being a bloodhunter who for no believable reason is suddenly trying to clean up Zaun and hunt only murderers. The reason why people are upset is because these changes aren't true to the original characters, and so they feel cheap, flat, and like changes that betray the original champs for no other reason than the sake of edginess and change. Changes, when they happen, have to be for valid and believable reasons--and they should always enrich the champion, not undermine who they are as a character.

Cinis3 votes

This entire discussion is depressing.

There isn't and there never has been transparency or accountability at Riot when it comes to lore.

For all we know, the people writing the stuff we're upset with are literally visual artists who have no experience or training in fiction writing.

Maybe Riot has a coder moonlighting as an editor.

From a business standpoint, it's probably cheaper than using talented professionals.

(I showed some of the recent shorts to a friend who worked as a professional editor before going to law school - she said she used to be a middle school teacher and that her students could have produced the same quality of content, if not done better)

So this clever policy of not telling us anything about the process except via red colored screen names means there's not even anyone to be upset with - it's just this vague sense that somewhere inside an inscrutable corporation, someone is making a bad decision anonymously.

Being upset about Riot's work is like being upset with politics.

Nothing any of us say or think matters.

It doesn't matter how right or wrong we are, it doesn't matter how waterproof the arguments get - it either goes into a black box (and perhaps inside the black box it gets confirmation bias'd out of existence) or it never even gets into the black box.

Critiques about the lore, no matter how strong, are totally worthless.

In the end though, this is a consumer product.

I'm a consumer. I'm venting now because it's cathartic (because I used to love the characters and everything I loved has been retcon'd out of existence). Generally though, ever since the retcon of the League, I've learned that I find the lore does not meet my standards and it's a waste of my time to read it.

It's overly optimistic to think that my drifting away from this video game on account of finding the characters really boring means anything to Riot.

They're a company.

It's difficult to measure how spending more money on better writers and editors creates a positive effect on the bottom line. There might be some sense of pride in the product, but so long as there's no negative effect, there's no reason to change the current structure without a clear incentive and the fact that there are current staff who no doubt think they're doing a good job means there's significant resistance to change already extant in the system.

It's also difficult to measure if there's any lost revenue from skimping on writers and editors. (The people like me, who end up drifting away from the game on account of the poor writing, are a truly difficult demographic to identify and analyze. Using angry comments on a forum could be a rough proxy to estimate percentage among users who stop logging in, but it really falls short in terms of creating a solid data trail. Furthermore, so long as the userbase continues to grow, there's little incentive to pin down the rather abstract push factors of the migration analysis).

I don't matter.

You don't matter.

No one cares.

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