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Riven and the Noxian ideal.

Ralanr·6/19/2017, 4:26:44 PM·15 votes·791 views

So I've been thinking about Riven and her view of the Noxian way (because I had some idea for a story but I'm having trouble envisioning her character) and something just bugs me.

From what I understand of the Noxian way, it's that might makes right. No matter who you are, if you are strong, and/or skilled enough, you can make it in Noxus.

Now obviously that's not fully lived up to in the capital with the noble houses (Though Noxus politics are pretty cutthroat). So this ideal is probably taken more seriously in the countryside and other outer territories (where Kled is more...liked I want to say). So logically Riven is a country girl given how core this belief was and how painful it was to break for her.

So logically you'd think she'd be a bit more conflicted in changing from how she's approached things, acting more like a villain who is in the process of becoming good. In game however, it feels like she's already become a good person or at least a regretful person.

Imo, that doesn't make much sense to me. It feels like we've missed most of her character development. She even has a line that says, "To serve the greater good."

I don't think Riven should know what the greater good is yet, relatively speaking. I feel like she abandons the "praise the strong" mentality much too easily in favor of "protect the weak" when she was never bothered by protecting anyone. This is someone who was willing to die because she lost to a stronger opponent. She should feel cheated, by Noxus especially because they threw away the code they taught her.

Idk. I feel like Riven is supposed to be the kind of person who will only involve herself in conflict if people push her into it. Her in game voicelines however feel like someone who will go in for non selfish reasons.

Maybe the Noxus lore update will give a more up to date Noxian ideal. Or maybe I'm not looking at Riven from the right angle. All I know is that Kled, the patriotic spirit of the Noxian way considers Riven a true Noxian and that confuses me a bit (beyond her determination I guess?).

9 Comments

ModThe Djinn6/19/2017, 4:47:31 PM8 votes

This is all just my own personal theories, but I don't think Noxus is really about, to quote Riven's biography, "terminating the remnants of a beaten and fractured enemy with extreme prejudice." They're a culture that praises strength of arm, mind, and spirit, but even with executions they seem to love it when even the "defenseless victim" is given at least a sporting chance [see Draven].

Riven's story showed her a darker side of the Noxus/Zaun alliance [although her lore is older than the Piltover/Zaun combination, so I'm not sure how valid that is -- does Zaun still HAVE war machines?] -- one that will exterminate a defeated foe mercilessly rather than incorporate them into Noxus. One that will destroy their own troops with dishonorable weapons rather than support each other for a glorious victory, or die a glorious death.

I feel like Noxus does have honor in defeat, for example: sure, it has a rule of strength, but I suspect a strong opponent is respected much more than one who simply rolls over and forfeits what they have. Letting Riven's unit die in combat was, probably, a better vision of what Riven's idea of Noxus is than what happened: the destruction of the enemy in unfair combat at the expense of her unit.

I think Kled likes her for this reason. Kled wants to win, and he'll fight dirty to do it, but it's always Kled fighting dirty by his own power. He's not one to resort to planted explosives, chemical weapons, or magical power -- he'll just jump you from behind and stab you in the neck, shouting while he does it.

Riven is the same. Win or lose, Riven's victory or defeat will always come from her own strength and her own conviction. If an stronger enemy defeats her in fair combat, then she needed to be stronger. THAT is, in my mind, the Noxian ideal -- not taking vengeance through outside means against a foe, but the knowledge that if you could not defeat them then your defeat is entirely your own fault, and, if you lived, that the way to regain power is to become stronger. In her mind, I think, Noxus has proven that it doesn't live up to that ideal as often as she would like it to.

GreenLore6/19/2017, 5:05:18 PM7 votes

Overall Riot didn't think that much about the VOs in the past. I mean look at Ahri whose lore is about her feeling guilt over killing others and then you have her VO which sounds like she is enjoying killing others.

HalfTangible6/19/2017, 6:59:13 PM2 votes

Here's my take on things.

Noxus is much like the old sith empire, in that the whole point of its system is to show strength. Riven is very much an idealist; she sees Noxus' ways as harsh, but fair and ultimately the best path for a people to take. In most of Noxus' wars, they fought enemies in a very traditional manner, so she was able to reconcile that thought. Noxus also has a habit of incorporating defeated enemies into the Noxian way of life, so (as Riven saw it) they were conquering not out of greed or desire for power, but because their way was better and they were helping people grow stronger. (Yes I realize that's incredibly naieve; Like I said, Riven's an idealist.)

The invasion of Ionia, however, changed everything. Now, how much of this remains canon is up for debate, since Riven's story hasn't been updated to fit the new lore as of yet. I'm going to reconcile the two as much as I can.

See, combat in Ionia was a way of mastering yourself and strengthening discipline. You might have to defeat a group of bandits every now and again or help catch a particularly violent criminal (see Jhin), and there were various orders dedicated to such skills (Wuju and the Kinkou, for example) but there was no real army. Ionia didn't have a formal military Noxus could defeat in a decisive battle, nor a particular strategic goal that the army could fulfill and declare 'this means we win', like most enemies they'd faced. So properly conquering the place was impossible. Ionia became a long, drawn-out brawl over an entire continent (very large island? Not sure what exactly Ionia is) that slowly bled both dry. Since absorbing Ionia as they'd done with other cultures was impossible, Noxus decided to just slash and burn so they could resettle the continent later.

This shift in strategy is what disillusioned Riven from Noxus as it was. Civilians were being slaughtered for the simple reason that there was no way to tell civilian from combatant, which went against the idea of testing your strength. Beating a warrior because you're better than them is one thing; slaughtering a native people in their homes was something else entirely. In the old version of the events, Singed bombarded Riven's position when she called for reinforcements, which led her to realize that as far as Noxus was concerned there was no difference between their soldiers and the enemy's. All were equally expendable.

The worst part of it, though, was that Singed's weapons didn't show the strength of anyone involved; by all rights the Ionians should have won. Poisoning your enemy doesn't show strength. That was the final straw for Riven; she broke her blade and went into self-imposed exile, since all of Noxus likely thought she was dead.

Krabohod6/19/2017, 11:41:52 PM1 votes

I always felt like Riven should be Remarque-character. Like in 'All quiet on Western front'. There are plenty good warriors in League that enjoys battles and wars. Riven should be the one showing that overall wars are bad and terrifying, cause there are a lot of war crimes and stuff. Riven should be the character that shows that war battlefields is nothing more than dirt and blood. Literall hell.

She has a good way of showing this by comparing how she thought Noxian conquer should be and how really wars is done. How Noxian Ideal differs from reality.

The Noxus invasion could be compared to WW I with all that gas stuff. And Remarque and Hemingway in 'Farewell to Arms' showed us what a hell it was and how it affect personalities.

General Esdeath 6/20/2017, 5:18:27 AM1 votes

Yeah she's a good person now, which is why I love when people are confused by the VS event