Question about champ variety

TenshouSNK·Jul 10, 2016·4 votes·857 views

Why is there no like an old old witch champion or like a fat obese female champ like gragas?

23 Comments

SharjoJul 10, 20166 votes

Because Riot hasn't decided to make one yet.

It's really that simple. When the champ designers decide that they wanna make a champion like that, they'll do it. It's up to whether they want to or not.

Elite4RunnerJul 10, 20164 votes

Well, simply from a social psychological perspective, old and obese women are seen as weak. Old men are typically seen as wise and obese men are still typically seen as powerful.

These are of course unfair and inaccurate stereotypes, but I would say this is at least a big part as to why you don't see it. I personally would like to see them both. I think it is more likely that you will see an old woman before an obese woman, but I think it could actually be healthy for both to make it.

MarshbouyJul 10, 20161 votes

because either they just didnt want to make one, or the feminists would lose it

Elite4RunnerJul 10, 20161 votes

Also, ... there is absolutely an amount of sex appeal involved in the marketing of champions.

As they say, sex sells.

TenshouSNKJul 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Also, ... there is absolutely an amount of sex appeal involved in the marketing of champions.

As they say, sex sells.

I think an old witch hag champ would be interesting and cool. Besides her being ugly and old, you are saying that she would be weak compared to young female champs?

Elite4RunnerJul 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Are saying that she would be weak compared to young female champs?

I am not. I'm saying that in general, society views an old woman as frail. Your overall question asks about the champion model or the body type. You didn't say anything about their actual power or the kit they come with. Give her supernatural powers and she becomes a powerful witch, but she still looks weak. The same champion will look stronger as a young woman.

TenshouSNKJul 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I am not. I'm saying that in general, society views an old woman as frail. Your overall question asks about the champion model or the body type. You didn't say anything about their actual power or the kit they come with. Give her supernatural powers and she becomes a powerful witch, but she still looks weak. The same champion will look stronger as a young woman.

so a champ like Quinn would look more stronger if placed side by side against a old hag witch ?

Elite4RunnerJul 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

so a champ like Quinn would look more stronger if placed side by side against a old hag witch ?

Physically, yes.

Don't take this as my personal opinion. This is how people generally see demographics. For the same reason, placing most male champions next to most female champions, the male champion will look physically stronger. Lets look at one of the most obvious exceptions, Illoai. She is very muscular. She looks very manly, doesn't she?

TenshouSNKJul 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Physically, yes.

Don't take this as my personal opinion. This is how people generally see demographics. For the same reason, placing most male champions next to most female champions, the male champion will look physically stronger. Lets look at one of the most obvious exceptions, Illoai. She is very muscular. She looks very manly, doesn't she?

so demographics wise how about a fat female (gragas type) vs Quinn? How would this be viewed?

Elite4RunnerJul 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

so demographics wise how about a fat female (gragas type) vs Quinn? How would this be viewed?

I would use the word, lethargic.

Again, I'm not saying they can't be strong, but in this case, athleticism is strength.

I'm sure it could be done, and as I said before, I hope that Riot will do it eventually. They just need to be careful. As Marshbouy said before, they will get bad PR if it isn't done right. Unfortunate, but it's a fact. Could they survive it? Yeah, most likely.

TenshouSNKJul 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I would use the word, lethargic.

Again, I'm not saying they can't be strong, but in this case, athleticism is strength.

I'm sure it could be done, and as I said before, I hope that Riot will do it eventually. They just need to be careful. As Marshbouy said before, they will get bad PR if it isn't done right. Unfortunate, but it's a fact. Could they survive it? Yeah, most likely.

wait, what do you mean? How would this matchup be viewed as body and physique wise against those 2? I mean taking into consideration both's physical attributes bodywise. As oppose to a old hag?

Elite4RunnerJul 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

wait, what do you mean? How would this matchup be viewed as body and physique wise against those 2? I mean taking into consideration both's physical attributes bodywise. As oppose to a old hag?

I feel like I'm repeating myself.

Based on popular belief, obese women are not commonly viewed as strong or athletic. This is in contrast to how obese men can be viewed as strong and athletic, thanks to American football's linemen or sumo wrestlers. This is of course not a fair assumption. When I say this, I mean that it could absolutely be a possibility for an overweight female champion to be introduced into the game and she could also be seen as formidable. The reason there are not, is for the reasons I have given up to now, which are the very same reasons for why there are significantly fewer elderly and overweight male champions in the game.

I want this to happen, I was just answering your question from an objective standpoint.

TenshouSNKJul 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I feel like I'm repeating myself.

Based on popular belief, obese women are not commonly viewed as strong or athletic. This is in contrast to how obese men can be viewed as strong and athletic, thanks to American football's linemen or sumo wrestlers. This is of course not a fair assumption. When I say this, I mean that it could absolutely be a possibility for an overweight female champion to be introduced into the game and she could also be seen as formidable. The reason there are not, is for the reasons I have given up to now, which are the very same reasons for why there are significantly fewer elderly and overweight male champions in the game.

I want this to happen, I was just answering your question from an objective standpoint.

ah alright so a old hag witch would be look as weak compared to Quinn who is athletic and slim? I mean characteristics wise.

Elite4RunnerJul 11, 20161 votes

You also have to keep in mind, in order to clearly portray something like age or obesity, those traits will need to be emphasized or exaggerated.

Age = frailty, even deformity with poor posture or needing the support of something for mobility (for example Zilean and his hover chair thing)

Obesity = ... well, just look at Urgot and Gragas. ..

Elite4RunnerJul 11, 20161 votes

Most likely.

TenshouSNKJul 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Most likely.

could you tell me some points for both characters from a demographic perspective that would make person a superior to b? Like characteristics, witch being old, brittle, skinny, etc and the champ being athletic etc

Elite4RunnerJul 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

could you tell me some points for both characters from a demographic perspective that would make person a superior to b? Like characteristics, witch being old, brittle, skinny, etc and the champ being athletic etc

I don't understand what you're asking. What characteristics make someone appear to be old, and therefore weaker?

TenshouSNKJul 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I don't understand what you're asking. What characteristics make someone appear to be old, and therefore weaker?

I mean in comparison to Quinn. I mean what does Quin have that the old hag doesn't. besides looks. haha

Elite4RunnerJul 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I mean in comparison to Quinn. I mean what does Quin have that the old hag doesn't. besides looks. haha

Well maybe you didn't do this intentionally, but the word 'hag' is derived from the word haggard which means "looking exhausted and unwell, especially from fatigue, worry, or suffering," according to google. So the very use of that word means she will automatically appear weaker if the character does a good job of portraying her as a hag.

As for Quinn, she is easily one of the most mobile champions, so maybe she isn't the best examples because she is practically the polar opposite. Even her character model is very sleek and angular, which implies that she is quick and light on her feet. Her posture often implies the same thing. An old woman, in order to be portrayed as an old woman, would most likely require some sort of assistance in order to be mobile, implying enfeeblement, thus weakness. This isn't of course the only possibility, but if an 'old woman' is strong, mobile, agile, light on her feet, athletic, ... she essentially becomes 'old' simply because she is said to be old, which is really just poor character design. Quinn, could ultimately be a 60 year old woman, who just happens to be in phenomenal shape. This means that her character model, ultimately does a very poor job or portraying this aspect of her character.

TenshouSNKJul 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Well maybe you didn't do this intentionally, but the word 'hag' is derived from the word haggard which means "looking exhausted and unwell, especially from fatigue, worry, or suffering," according to google. So the very use of that word means she will automatically appear weaker if the character does a good job of portraying her as a hag.

As for Quinn, she is easily one of the most mobile champions, so maybe she isn't the best examples because she is practically the polar opposite. Even her character model is very sleek and angular, which implies that she is quick and light on her feet. Her posture often implies the same thing. An old woman, in order to be portrayed as an old woman, would most likely require some sort of assistance in order to be mobile, implying enfeeblement, thus weakness. This isn't of course the only possibility, but if an 'old woman' is strong, mobile, agile, light on her feet, athletic, ... she essentially becomes 'old' simply because she is said to be old, which is really just poor character design. Quinn, could ultimately be a 60 year old woman, who just happens to be in phenomenal shape. This means that her character model, ultimately does a very poor job or portraying this aspect of her character.

who would win in a 1v1 fist/kick fight, quinn or old witch?

Elite4RunnerJul 11, 20161 votes

I would say Quinn, but she is not a melee fighter. I would assume that this 'old witch' is also not a melee fighter as her age would generally imply brittleness and witches typically rely on magic for strength, not physical strength. ... Then again, I guess that really depends on what lore your witch is based on. Theoretically a witch could unnatural strength.

GreenLoreJul 11, 20161 votes

Well when they started the game they were a lot more focused on fanservice,which is why most of the early female champs are sexy.

However over time they grew out of it and nowadays I could see them making champs like that.

The thing however is that there are so many unexplored possibilities when it comes to champion design,that these are just 2 of many. I mean Taliyah for example wasn't designed to look sexy,but being old or overweight simply would have been unfitting for her character,since she is this "can't control her powers yet"(which is why she is young) and since she is a nomad(so it wouldn't make much sense for her to be overweight)