Boards›Story, Art, & Sound

The Spooky Trinity of Abandonned Champions (Nocturne, Shaco, Fiddlesticks) . Especially on the lore

Necrozard·10/23/2017, 8:24:46 PM·59 votes·4,199 views

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293500383769133056/372115559250395146/image.png

I think this issue was called out many times already ... but i just wish we could get some clarifications. ( Being left in ignorance is such a turn-off )

Even if they could have outdated gameplay , i will only focus on the lore.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293500383769133056/372115751865417738/image.png

With the release of Evelynn, this old spooky champions received a real identity : Demon of lust and pain, born from humans actions and emotions, making deals of passion with them With this revelation we can notice that Tahm Kench is similar , "An hungry Demon that feed of human desires".

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293500383769133056/372115944002027531/image.png

Shaco : SHACO He is currently described as : " demonic manifestation of humanity's dark urges " or the " demon jester " ... That's like, extremely similar , to the description of demons we recently got to see. When his lore get updated, I really hope it will keep that "demonic status" and finally makes sense. (Evelynn can shape-shift to get invisibility, Shaco don't have a real reason to makes us hallucinate)

Nocturne : NOCTURNE With his cameo in Lux's lore and updated lore, he now have a much more defined design space. **Nightmares **! So he's currently ok-ish, but his lore is only two-paragraphs. He also feels abandoned...

Fiddlesticks : FIDDLESTICKS I don't know what to do with that champion , send help From shorty story : "You crossed my field" and "And all that grows here is mine." Kled 2.0 ?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293500383769133056/372116181546434561/image.png

I understand that scary things need to stay "unknown" to remain scary.

[zombie-nunu-bummed]

But it's so frustrating to see unfinished lore with a lot of potential ...

https://youtu.be/PmnLRSHJSg8 https://universe-meeps.leagueoflegends.com/v1/assets/images/image-gallery/nocturne_concept.jpg https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293500383769133056/372113704860516352/image.png

So much cool and scary stories could be created ...

(Together , they hold most of the "spooky" factor of LoL, that's a huge achievement)

82 Comments

Radiant Seraph10/23/2017, 9:16:27 PM19 votes

I mean, Fiddle's title is "The Harbinger of Doom"

They gotta have to do something up to that title

BoilTheOil10/23/2017, 10:37:02 PM12 votes

When they give shaco a vgu ths should be his dance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOw5vPQPLvQ

AquariusGine10/23/2017, 10:24:38 PM11 votes

Nocturne needs a VGU, emphasis on the G.

I feel his gameplay doesn't deliver the Eternal Darkness fantasy. His ultimate is AMAZING, but QWE makes him feel like a clunky fighter?

Snake Prince10/23/2017, 9:29:26 PM6 votes

also useless in ranked , a coincidence , i think not .

ZT Xperimentor10/23/2017, 10:39:22 PM6 votes

Rather a page of unfinished vague lore, than a line of lazy filler.

Ionian Vulpix10/24/2017, 2:02:50 AM4 votes

Fiddlesticks oldest lore was that a witch made a scarecrow come to life to protect her fields and terrify/slaughter those who would do it harm. They could probably just move him back to that.

SomeStars10/23/2017, 10:43:48 PM4 votes

lets look at this trinities theme one at a time

shaco: now the clowns name is actually an anagram for chaos and so i'm assuming that's his theme, and how more chaotic can hallucinations that hurt you, boxes appearing out of nowhere fearing you, and randomly appearing behind you and stabbing you in the back be.

nocturne: now nocturne his theme i like to think is more fear then nightmares. when you're heart is racing because someone/something is after you and you know you have little chance to escape unless you hide in you're safe space and even still you don't want to leave because he is out there

fiddle: now fiddle is the impending doom the uncanny feeling that something bad and big is about to happen. the calm before the storm. the mia ping before the ulting into a lane. although i think shaco delivers far better on this thematic then fiddle does

Camulos10/23/2017, 11:58:03 PM4 votes

Well, IreliaIrelia is after SwainSwain on the VGU list... but I have the feeling that the "Drowsy" and "Asleep" mechanics being introduced with the next new champion will provide a basis for a more nightmare-ish NocturneNocturne. Something like being able to temporarily possess someone affected by the "Asleep" condition would be pretty spooky, and tie into his cameo LuxLux's story.

GreenLore10/24/2017, 12:19:56 AM4 votes

Shaco I think him being a demon or fey(or maybe both?We don't know runeterras exact definition of these things) would fit him the most. After all we already have Jhin as our human psychopath,so Shaco should be supernatural. Though I wonder if he should just aimlessly wander around killing people.Since Eve isn't an assassin anymore,they could make Shaco some supernatural entity with which you could make a pact to kill someone.

Nocturne appeared already in the demacian lore and was said to be a demon(though they might have simply mistaken him for one).Overall I am ok with Nocturne being basically the nightmare of the mages who were opressed and hunted down in demacia for years.

Now Fiddlesticks is kind of a tough nut to crack. He is said to be the harbinger of doom,but what doom are we actually talking about?Maybe Fiddle is actually causing some greater catastrophe wherever he goes?Or maybe there is some evil entity that is behind him? Speaking of evil entity behind him,I always felt like Fiddle would work quite well as the henchman of some greater evil,though he would not necessarily remains as one forever(we all know that evil is not a toy,so he might kill his creator eventually or has him already killed).

TheHobbits10/24/2017, 4:05:42 AM3 votes

Old Fiddlesticks lore in a nutshell for those that didn't know.

The Summoners of the Summoning Council locked Fiddlesticks away in a secret summoning chamber where no man may enter. When the Summoners needed to summon him they would use a special summoning spell to summon him from his summoning chamber to fight on Summoners Rift. When the summoners were done Fiddle would summon off Summoners Rift back to his summoning chamber via a summoning spell where he would stand motionless and wait until next summoned.

What a convoluted lore Riot made.

Onkel Malte10/24/2017, 4:08:19 PM2 votes

I feel like all of them are playable, but none of them feel good to play.

Nocturne fits in very well with the new Demon Lore known through Evelynn.

Demons have a certain "Food" - a human trait they feed on. And up until now they embody one of the Seven Sins.

Evelynn feeds on Pain and embodies Lust. TahmKench feeds on Desires/People and embodies Gluttony. Nocturne feeds on Fear and probably embodies Wrath (even though he's pretty arrogant, he's mostly violent above all in his cameo in Lux/Garen's Lore).

Shaco would fit within the demon's ranks pretty well, and either Sloth could be a cool Sin for him, since his Boxes and his Clone do a lot of stuff, or Pride since someone who mocks his enemies a lot like Shaco, sure is prideful.

Fiddlesticks is more of an issues because he probably fits best withtin general mystical figures like Bard or Kindred. In the cinematic "A Twist of Fate" he seems pretty neat at least. Allthough If I'm honest, Fiddlesticks himself isn't that scary and I wonder how a designer would pack some actually scary design into a scarecrow.

Xodiathe4bdn110/24/2017, 5:18:18 PM2 votes

I just hope that ,whenever riot decides to release them, their VGUs follow one after the other or maybe even better yet:double update like their going to do with Morgana Kayle

JoeMG10/24/2017, 7:01:53 PM2 votes

Up-voting this post as a dedicated Nocturne main and for those being 3 of my top 4 favorite Champs. :)

Valor Bot10/24/2017, 7:22:24 PM2 votes

I think the problem with Fiddlesticks's theme is that it isn't as clear cut or fleshed out as "demon of chaos" or "demon of nightmares".

In a very broad sense, scarecrows are used to keep animals (specifically, crows) from damaging crops -- but in a more narrow, horror/fantasy setting, they are the foreboding idols of barren places; the "KEEP OUT" symbols that will come alive and tear you to pieces for stepping foot on their lands.

As a result, I think Fiddle being reworked into the territorial demon that guards lone fields or abandoned places would be the most cohesive and horrific direction for his theme as a demonic scarecrow. In terms of gameplay, this could easily translate into making him the "anti-counterjungler" of League; his strategic niche would be having the ability to protect his side of the map very fiercely while punishing the foolhardy Lee Sins and Elises of this meta for trespassing upon his lands.

https://imgur.com/a/BrLCi

SpecterVonBaren10/24/2017, 8:50:04 PM2 votes

If Shaco becomes officially a demon in any new lore they make for him then he needs to have just as much trash talk as Eve and Tahm do.

Painted Celt10/24/2017, 8:50:21 PM2 votes

Nocturne Feedback: I think that Nocturne's darkness theme should translate into a unique niche around denying the enemy team vision, while also instilling paranoia, fear, and disorientation on the enemy team.

I think that Nocturne's Q should contain a passive, "Shadow-Vision", which enables him to find invisible targets, including stealthed champions and wards. The Q passive should provide a clear indicator where the stealthed unit is, but should not share the vision with Nocturne's teammates or make the unit targetable for Nocturne. If the stealthed unit is a champion, then hitting it with Nocturne's Q projectile should reveal the champion for all allies, while adding the shadow trail as it currently does. The duration of the shadow trail could be buffed along with the movement speed on it, but the bonus AD on the trail could be removed. This would make the ability very clearly oriented around tracking opponents and as a counter to stealth. It also forces enemies to work together to escape Nocturne, as the longer trail duration and higher movement speed buff would make it very difficult to escape Nocturne, so players will need allies to help drive him away - so the counterplay would be to run to allies if you cannot duel Nocturne, rather than simply using some sort flash/dash to get away. Combined with his ultimate making team coordination difficult and potentially providing a second gap-closer if needed, this would make Nocturne's chasing relentless and powerful, which is thematically fitting. For wards, Nocturne could still need to use a sweeper lens to clear it if he see one indicated by Shadow Vision, or possibly the Q trail could allow it to be cleared (but that could feel unfair). If the passive AD is removed, Nocturne would probably need a base attack speed buff to help him clear in the jungle however.

I think that W is boring currently, as there are abilities in other kits that feel like a purely better version of it. I do think that W can feel really rewarding if used skillfully to block a high value ability, and it can offer good skill expression in some cases. Perhaps the attack speed buff for successfully blocking an ability could be made into something more interesting and visible, like some sort of frenzy transformation that provides tenacity against further CC.

I think that E is pretty good as-is, but I think it would be even better if it made enemies near-sighted while tethered. This would further cement Nocturne's theme around vision denial and disorienting opponents, as he would be the only champion with multiple near-sighted effects. This buff would make it so that Nocturne could try to herd a fleeing opponent into a dangerous location if they lack map awareness. The near-sightedness could also potentially be used to save allies' lives in some situations. If the tether length were increased and Nocturne's speed towards feared opponents were buffed, then it could also increase skill expression by allowing Nocturne to try to manage his distance from an opponent during the tether duration to prevent them from targeting him, but he would risk making it easier for the opponent to escape the tether by doing so. Another possible change is that Nocturne's passive movement speed towards feared opponents could be expanded to include other hard-CC from allies, such as stuns, suppressions, and the newly leaked sleep CC (which would be really thematic with Nocturne infesting dreams).

I think that R is good but it should refund duration if it isn't used to gap-close (I've seen others suggest this too). This allows Nocturne to use it more often for vision denial and to play mind games with his opponents. This also makes it less frustrating for Nocturne if he loses vision of an opponent right before he can click them to dive onto them, wasting the ultimate. I think this would be a good buff considering that Nocturne's ultimate has gotten a lot weaker than it once was, as it lost a lot of range at early ranks. I've seen suggestions about making it so that enemies all see Nocturne dive to them, so that they panic and burn their flashes, and that could be amusing as well.

MangoInfinity110/25/2017, 2:11:31 AM2 votes

fiddle in the middle. and wouldnt you say kled is fiddle 2.0, not fiddle kled 2.0?

Velasan10/23/2017, 11:05:07 PM2 votes

Fiddle should just feed on fear like Eve feeds on lust/pain. Have you ever played Scarecrow in Injustice 2? That's like Fiddle with better graphics (no seriously).

I love Fiddle though. Been jungling with him since I started the game and thankfully Riot is paying attention to him these days.

Jmman10/25/2017, 3:19:24 PM2 votes

Shaco / fiddle - (added) Pen Nyise A failed Clown running from a mob, after insulting a lord of Zaun, climbed through an open window. Beaten and bruised he wondered the halls in darkness. "Are you afraid?" a soft cracking voice echoed from the shadows. The shadow's slowly formed to resemble a crowd laughing and pointing at Pen. "afraid of the dark" bellow a dark voice. Pen started to laugh madly as he slowly slips into insanity.

 The laugher is over heard by two guards that come running down the hall way to an open room.  "what have you done?" yells the guard to pen.  "Embrace the darkness" mumbles Pen.  The guards stop at the door way.  Pen kneeing in the center of the room.  They run to grab pen by the shoulders.  "jokes on you!!!" Pen laughs and yell and screams  echoes the halls.  That night laughter and screams of the mad jester cover the house of lords in Zaun.  The murdering spree seems super national.  

 The guard of the lords chased Pen to a farm on the outskirts of Zaun.  Slowly cutting and laughing on a small child as they arrived.  Pen stood in the middle of the field and ask "why so serious?".  "your murdering spree has come to an end?" Yell the guards.  "Oh the spree wasn't for me" Pen laughed.  "Are you afraid?"  echoed from the darkness.  The voice came from a scarecrow standing in the field.  "I feel you fear!" yelled the scarecrow as a flow of crows blacked out the moon light.

 There was only on person that lived out of the 15.  In and out of conscious he mumbled about The Darkness, Fear, and Madness.  Kelvin Ma, patient #4236 was put under close watch and help.  The Chamber that once house the Harbinger of Doom is now empty.  Only dried blood on the walls from the night before.  Only the madness within could understand evil.  The killing spree awoken things that night.  The evil act seem to draws evil from its dark slumber.  "During the day people are looking over their shoulder for the murdering now know as Shaco his alt ego clown.  At night they fear the Harbinger of doom calling from the shadows.  And the DREAMS oh the dreams...... The darkness seem to be consuming us all.  Sometimes when you stare into the abyss the abyss will answer back.... the demons are real. - Yahan Ma  guard of Zuan

Changes I would like to see.

Shaco

  • Jack in the box is gone. Hallucinate is now in it spot. Clone no longer does aoe damage on death. Just makes a clone that does 75% damage and takes 50% more damage for 6/7/8/9/10 secs

Ult Jack in the box. Cast on self or ally. last 6/12/18 sec. On target goes below 10/15/20% hp target become invisible and a Jack in the box takes it place. Invisible last 6/8/10 secs.

Just wanted to try and make him more fun. Might have to adjust numbers

Noch

Change passives to every melee attack put debuff on Darkness on target stacks 5 times

Darkness decreases target AC and MR 5%, increase spell vamp and life steal by 1%

Fiddle

Passive changed added. When damaging enemies they lost 1/2/3% AC and MR stacking 5 times depending on level.

Goal the changes is to make them "wanted" or support the team with their kits. This might make them better picks because they will help the team and not be some individualized.

Just my ideas and 2 cents