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Maybe... *shudders* Viktor is right

Sooko··2 votes·2,419 views

Maybe humans do need to be upgraded to the next level. A level devoid of feelings and emotions to cloud our decisions and judgement. Viktor never said anything (as far as I am aware of) about how painful it was for him to evolve into the Machine Herald, but, looking at Zaunite standards, it probably takes some bravery to do it. As an individual who isn't particularly fond of mankind's deeds over the centuries, however, I completely understand the possibility of being wrong here.

In his early years, Viktor was actually a devoted scientist who sought to improve society. His faith in humanity, however, was shattered when some jerk named Stanwick stole the credit for the most important creation of his career: Blitzcrank. Not only that, but he then once again stole Viktor's research materials to revive Urgot, once again claiming fame that wasn't meant to be his. Whether thanks to corruption or cowardice, or even laziness, the authorities refused to do anything about Stanwick, and Viktor's despair spiralled downwards hopelessly, throwing him into a problematic depression. By this point, most of his faith in us was gone. He felt envy of Stanwick's success (which should be his), he felt disgusted by whichever was the flaw keeping the authorities from dealing with the thief, he felt powerless and depressed.

So he dropped out of the College where he worked, locking himself in his own private laboratory, at least what was left of his shards, for (probably) a very long time. He didn't speak with anyone during those months/years, and remember, his last memory from the other people was his creation getting stolen without anyone really caring about it. Now whether he came up with the Glorious Evolution out of insanity created by solitude, or brightness originated by that same thing, I don't know, but when he did get out of the lab once again, he had a clear objective: to evolve all humans.

Now I must ask: selfish reasons aside, what are the downsides of Viktor's Evolution? Selfish reasons are ones such as how painful it would be or how ugly we would look. Just to add emphasis to this thought: Viktor is currently the only individual that isn't allied to the Void to have some of its creatures in his faction. Gives us something to think about, since those guys usually only care about eating, but maybe the Glorious Evolution fits more than just humans, to the point that even Voidlings embrace its ideals.

Viktor "Whatever is the reason of our existence, we might fulfill it with utmost efficiency."

18 Comments

LordHippoman6 votes

Viktor is a pretty neat character. I voted neutral because I think his decisions were made for the wrong reasons. Viktor had a shitty life and was pretty much used as a footstool by everyone. He lost faith in humanity because of some bad things happening to him, and I think he went too far without looking at the big picture. Not all humans are awful people, but the ones Viktor encountered were, so he really had no frame of reference.

I think if Viktor had any real friends or allies, things would have gone better for him, but they didn't, so he sort of flung himself into this ideal that "Robots don't lie, robots won't hurt me, robots won't betray me.", which is really sad if you think about it.

I think whether or not Viktor comes out as a flawed hero or a tragic villain depends on his actions. If he uses his cyborg creating abilities to save the diseased or dying, that's a noble pursuit and he'll look like a pretty great guy. If he decides to use violence and destruction to FORCE his ideology and "evolution" on people, he's no better than the people who made him change himself.

Gentleman Gaston5 votes

We've already seen a bit of this in Jayce's bio, but there's evidence for Viktor's tendency towards violence as a means to forward his own pursuits, although there was no serious harm done to persons in his attack on Jayce's lab. So, you could argue that those actions were of a "You just don't understand and I will not let foolishness stand in the way of my vision" nature and less of a mustache twirling villain variety.

To me, Viktor is one of the best gray-area villains League has. On the surface his ideologies seem extreme, but underneath all that I think there is simply a desire for others to understand him. His main quote: "Join the glorious evolution!". What does it mean? Is he demanding that others forcibly join him, as in a edict or order? Or...is it a request? "Join this glorious evolution. There is no pain here. No anguish, or fear, or hate. There is nothing holding our species back from achievement, from claiming the destiny we deserve."

It is, perhaps, a bit too romanticized, but I tend to look for the complexities in characters like this.

IS1d51f7fd0f8e2764617b06 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gentleman Gaston,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=IsEmE7c2,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-01-12T00:08:45.724+0000)

We've already seen a bit of this in Jayce's bio, but there's evidence for Viktor's tendency towards violence as a means to forward his own pursuits, although there was no serious harm done to persons in his attack on Jayce's lab. So, you could argue that those actions were of a "You just don't understand and I will not let foolishness stand in the way of my vision" nature and less of a mustache twirling villain variety.

To me, Viktor is one of the best gray-area villains League has. On the surface his ideologies seem extreme, but underneath all that I think there is simply a desire for others to understand him. His main quote: "Join the glorious evolution!". What does it mean? Is he demanding that others forcibly join him, as in a edict or order? Or...is it a request? "Join this glorious evolution. There is no pain here. No anguish, or fear, or hate. There is nothing holding our species back from achievement, from claiming the destiny we deserve."

It is, perhaps, a bit too romanticized, but I tend to look for the complexities in characters like this.

Jayce is a complete and utter jock douchebag if you read his lore.

He goes in to Viktor laboratory without any real proof, smashes EVERYTHING, maybe a part of Viktor evolution was a tissue regeneration aparatus since a cyborg/bionic aparatus IS more efficent then a pure electrical one.

Perhaps Viktor was working on something groundbreaking in medical science .... we may never know

Gentleman Gaston4 votes

Viktor, the machine-augmented scientist from Zaun, brought Jayce an offer – together, they could use the crystal to advance his "glorious evolution," a vision of humanity fused with technology. Jayce refused, but the Zaunite had no intention of leaving empty handed. He effortlessly blasted Jayce aside and seized the crystal, incinerating the lab's meager security force as he left for Zaun.

And then

Inside, Jayce saw the horrifying brilliance of Viktor's creations, all powered by the energy of the arcane crystal. He realized that his only option was to destroy the power source, but Viktor stood in his way.

Jayce had plenty of reason to believe that Viktor would use the crystal for some dark purpose; he pretty much told him so up front. There was no "glorious medical evolution" here, and either way we know Viktor is not some sort of heart of gold "I just want to help people" kind of guy.

Don't get my previous post wrong: Viktor is not a good guy. He's a villain through and through. What makes him interesting is his motivations are sympathetic and understandable, but that doesn't mean you should want him to succeed. Likewise, Jayce may be hot headed and rash and cocky, but he's a good guy. He legitimately wants to protect others from harm. What makes Jayce interesting is that he's a hero who's been thrown into that role without really being emotionally equipped for it; sure the accolades, glory, and self-righteousness is good and all, but is Jayce ready to take on such a responsibility? I'd say no, and it'll be interesting to see what happens when he realizes that.

LordHippoman1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gentleman Gaston,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=IsEmE7c2,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2015-01-12T21:02:00.687+0000)

And then

Jayce had plenty of reason to believe that Viktor would use the crystal for some dark purpose; he pretty much told him so up front. There was no "glorious medical evolution" here, and either way we know Viktor is not some sort of heart of gold "I just want to help people" kind of guy.

Don't get my previous post wrong: Viktor is not a good guy. He's a villain through and through. What makes him interesting is his motivations are sympathetic and understandable, but that doesn't mean you should want him to succeed. Likewise, Jayce may be hot headed and rash and cocky, but he's a good guy. He legitimately wants to protect others from harm. What makes Jayce interesting is that he's a hero who's been thrown into that role without really being emotionally equipped for it; sure the accolades, glory, and self-righteousness is good and all, but is Jayce ready to take on such a responsibility? I'd say no, and it'll be interesting to see what happens when he realizes that.

Hit the nail on the head.

Like, let's be honest, I think the reason a lot of people hate Jayce is because a lot of people love Viktor, and want to see him as a saint when he's really not. There's not much to suggest that Jayce is a bad person. The same thing used to happen a lot with Jarvan and Garen. People love Swain and Katarina, so a lot of people wanted to project things like "Jarvan is vain and self obsessed" or "Garen cares about nothing but Demacia", when these traits really aren't present in the Lore. If anything, they are totally debunked by the end of the Kalamanda arc in the JoJ.

Sooko2 votes

{quoted}

Hit the nail on the head.

Like, let's be honest, I think the reason a lot of people hate Jayce is because a lot of people love Viktor, and want to see him as a saint when he's really not. There's not much to suggest that Jayce is a bad person. The same thing used to happen a lot with Jarvan and Garen. People love Swain and Katarina, so a lot of people wanted to project things like "Jarvan is vain and self obsessed" or "Garen cares about nothing but Demacia", when these traits really aren't present in the Lore. If anything, they are totally debunked by the end of the Kalamanda arc in the JoJ.

I don't hate Jayce. In fact, I like him a lot. His near-douchy confidence, his hero attitude, his pride, everything that makes him a hero. But I think Jayce met a different kind of humanity than Viktor. Jayce probably had plenty of friends, girls after him, people that actually cared about him (Piltover in terms of human worth is probably a lot bigger than Zaun). While Viktor spent his life surrounded by thieves, opportunistic scoundrels and little more than selfish men.

With all these replies however, I can see that Viktor should shorten the gift of evolution's access only to those few that actually wish to evolve, instead of forcing innocents to do it through violence. It was thanks to Jayce that he didn't do just that, so in no way would I ever think of Jayce as a bad person, but think of Viktor instead as a misunderstood villain.

333lom6 votes

Maybe it's too late for me to join in on this discussion here, but I see that there are people who are genuinely interested in this character and his morals, and I'd like to add my two cents.

In his lore, we are introduced to a character with great potential, who was let down by the people around him. Consequence of living in a deteriorating and amoral city-state? Quite likely, but probably not the only reason. He has had bad luck in his life. Or just a random set of events that didn't quite work in his favour. Fate or coincidence, it doesn't matter. What we see here is that he was a person with such a mental set that gave in to the harassment of the outside world. Why didn't he fight back, or at least seek help from his friends? Instead, he chose to lock himself away and sink into a depression. It must have been horrible. His work was stolen by Professor Stanwick Pididly. Twice. He was only a doctoral student when he called for trial to decide the ownership of Blitzcrank. How could have he competed against a renowned professor from the College of Techmaturgy? Knowing what kind of city-state Zaun is, the trial could have very well been rigged, no doubt about that. Corrupted judges are probably a common thing in Zaun. When Viktor lost the case at court, it probably looked like he was the one lying and trying to steal credit from the real creator of Blitzcrank. His career was ruined before it even officially began.

Betrayed and let down by the people in his life, it's easy to see why Viktor lost faith in humanity. Who knows what was going through his head in the months he spent in isolation, but somewhere along the way, he realized that humans were in fact flawed in their core. No matter how hard they would try, there would always be sinister and selfish people inflicting pain and misery to others. He saw this flaw in himself, as well. So he decided to fix it. To remove the flaws altogether, not waste time trying to correct them, since that would be impossible. He was still a bit of a self-centered mad scientist, looking for world-wide appreciation of his genius and recognition.

If you look more closely at his lore, it never says that Viktor wants to remove emotions. At least not in others. It just says that it appears that his transformation has stripped him of what he perceived as his emotional weakness. Who knows, maybe he taught himself not to fall into so much distress when others treat him unjustly. And that must be happening often. Maybe he taught himself to appear cold and focus only on work, and not on other people's opinions.

At the end, we see a person whose actions arise from his desire to help humanity, but whose intellect is so ahead of its time, that it stands alone, with noone to consult with. His mind might stray into trying to implement ideas into the world which humanity would outright oppose. He might completely loose his mind.

But this character is one of the very few I’ve ever seen that is capable of complete redemption without having to give up his goal. If he somehow manages to do something that would demand redemption.

TL;DR: Right reasons, questionable ways. It depends if one perceives augments good or a bad thing. Maybe someone likes to have an organic body at the cost of being susceptible to disease and other things. But one thing is for certain. If he starts forcing the Glorious Evolution on the world, he will be deemed lost. Helping someone by force, even if it's for own good, is generally not considered good. But selfish reasons? I think not.

Sooko1 votes

{quoted}

Maybe it's too late for me to join in on this discussion here,

Its never too late to chat about lore :D

DWT123453 votes

well its not like viktor wants to kill everybody. He just wants to turn them into cyborgs.

SEKAI2 votes

What's the point to evolve if there is nothing to compete?

Or do the new breed of cyborgs will continue to compete against each other while upgrading themselves for eternity?

If so, then what's the point of using "omg super technologies" to achieve what other organisms have already been doing for literally billions of years with nothing, kinda like using an automatic retractable solar charged 0% energy loss light saber to cut vegetables, when you can have steel blade or hell even hands to do the same jobs.

It's hardly an evolution if you ask me, but devolution.

Wuju Lord1 votes

Interesting point. But i gotta counter-argue though; Viktor is interested int he evolution of the Human race emotionally and morally speaking, not just technologically. Our emotions don't develop or change throughout the years, as it's obvious in our recorded history that Humans have always fought and waged war over the same four things: Money, Women, Fame, and Power.

I think that Viktor's big idea was to eradicate the human mind, while perfecting the body, so that a certain kind of enlightenment could be achieved, and there would be no more evil in the world. Just machines doing their jobs.

SEKAI1 votes

I am against the elimination of emotions, why?

Well if you want a deeper and more profound explanation, assuming you aren't against the idea of watching animes, watch Psycho Pass (first season should do).

Otherwise, if you wanna create a hive mind society, there are better and easier ways to do so, instead of turning everybody into machines (like genetically engineer everybody into ants whatever).

Emotions play a major role for species, either for essentials like communication, reproduction and survival or the abstract ideas like self expression, discussion and imagination.

Yes human history doesn't involve a lot of improvement on emotions, but that only means that we need to find more effective way of improving it, be it emotion itself or controlling it, instead of getting rid of it completely.

EDIT: Also the idea of "good and evil" and "bad or perfect" while involves a lot of statistics, most of it comes from statistical bias where we prefer some stats over another, where does that come from? Situational judgement and emotional inputs. Imagine getting rid of those, there is a reason why ants while extremely powerful and deadly for millions of years still hasn't acquire/dominate a single continent yet (except probably a portion of Africa).

Sooko1 votes

{quoted}

I am against the elimination of emotions, why?

Well if you want a deeper and more profound explanation, assuming you aren't against the idea of watching animes, watch Psycho Pass (first season should do).

Otherwise, if you wanna create a hive mind society, there are better and easier ways to do so, instead of turning everybody into machines (like genetically engineer everybody into ants whatever).

Emotions play a major role for species, either for essentials like communication, reproduction and survival or the abstract ideas like self expression, discussion and imagination.

Yes human history doesn't involve a lot of improvement on emotions, but that only means that we need to find more effective way of improving it, be it emotion itself or controlling it, instead of getting rid of it completely.

EDIT: Also the idea of "good and evil" and "bad or perfect" while involves a lot of statistics, most of it comes from statistical bias where we prefer some stats over another, where does that come from? Situational judgement and emotional inputs. Imagine getting rid of those, there is a reason why ants while extremely powerful and deadly for millions of years still hasn't acquire/dominate a single continent yet (except probably a portion of Africa).

Well, you are right. Emotions should probably not be wholy removed or replaced (nor does Viktor seem to still be completely 'fixed' from them).

But just like not all of them are bad, not all of them are good, and maybe Viktor could try to convice non violently some people to get rid of those first, without changing them into emotionless machines that kill anything that disagrees with their master.

Anyway, it's been a pleasure debating this with you fine, lore-interested players. I am off to earn IP to buy and learn Viktor :)

GreenLore1 votes

Overall I think Viktors glorious evolution is itself nothing bad,but I would be afraid of what would happen if it goes too far. Think of it if we don't have emotions,then we wouldn't have stuff like compassion(why would you help someone if it doesn't help you?)

Not all feelings are bad and even the ones you could generally see as bad can cause something good for example pride can cause someone to work harder than he needs to or to act honest

So overall I think Viktor is pretty neutral,he showed that he is ready to go to certain extremes with his glorious evolution,but he wants to better the world.

Kingsgrave2 votes

{quoted}

Overall I think Viktors glorious evolution is itself nothing bad,but I would be afraid of what would happen if it goes too far. Think of it if we don't have emotions,then we wouldn't have stuff like compassion(why would you help someone if it doesn't help you?)

Not all feelings are bad and even the ones you could generally see as bad can cause something good for example pride can cause someone to work harder than he needs to or to act honest

So overall I think Viktor is pretty neutral,he showed that he is ready to go to certain extremes with his glorious evolution,but he wants to better the world.

I think Viktor still has emotions, which honestly shows how flawed his dream is.

A Superb Villain1 votes

I truly believe Viktor is a case of good intentions gone wrong. He wants to improve humanity, but his method is not wholly welcome by Runeterra or infallible. What damages his goal further is how far he may have slipped into insanity, coupled with his own suppressed emotions and mechanical obsession. At this point, Viktor's intentions may be incomprehensible to other citizens of Valoran.

He wants to improve humanity, but can no longer understands it having sacrificed his own.

Big Bang Bob1 votes

Not getting to taste food aside, you sacrifice control. One day, during the heat of his "evolution", he will be and all his subjects will be hacked and left to an eternity of helplessly slapping themselves with a third arm. The evolution will be crushed as many people wielding Hammer Cannons in one hand and Hex-Phones in another turn the army against itself.

In wake of the epic(ly embarassing battle) Viktor, who has fully augmented every piece of his body, save for key parts of his brain, will utter his final words.

Viktor "I am a funky chicken! Fear my cybernetic wings!"

It will be at this moment that Jayce inputs his ultimate movement against the Glorious Evolution: Making the now chicken dancing Viktor and all augmented by him explode for no apparent reason (at least to anyone who doesn't know much about robotics, electricity, and all that other good stuff).

That is why I voted evil, as Viktor is a malevolent force that will eventually lead to all who follow him's demise.

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