Which Champions should receive huge amounts of "Plot Armor"?

darkdill·Dec 24, 2016·6 votes·2,293 views

Plot Armor - TV Tropes

My picks: for starters.

27 Comments

Ebonmaw DragonDec 24, 201611 votes

Olaf has it already

RalanrDec 24, 20168 votes

And he wants it off.

RebonackDec 25, 20165 votes

Champion death has zero impact on League since the gameplay is divorced from the lore.

I say Riot should go full Game of Thrones on 'em.

LùmenDec 24, 20161 votes

Camille

GreenLoreDec 24, 20161 votes

Overall I'd say that almost no champion should have plot armor,at least not forever as champions will obviously not die at the beginning of their story.

I mean sure Ashe is kinda played up to be the protagonist of the freljord(with her faction being pretty much the good-guy-faction of the 3),but I'd say that it might be actually interesting if she fails and either Sejuani or Lissandra actually do defeat her.

The only ones that I can imagine to have Plot armor forever are Olaf (unless he actually finds out some way to change fate,he's not gonna die until he gets really old) and Kindred (because they likely can't die,at least not as long as there is life)

TzQGRUST39Dec 25, 20161 votes

I'm not sure where I heard this, but isnt it supposed to be implied that Trundle is going to betray Liss and either kill her or incapacitate her? The only champions I think they'd kill outside of a huge climax are the static wild cards like Jhin, Tahm Kench, or Taric. People who are concrete in their ways and have dont have major faction ties.

VoidreyDec 24, 20161 votes

don't all the champions pretty much have plot armor, since killing them from off from the story you may as well take them out of League, since they have nothing more to offer lore-wise. the ones who I think who don't have much plot armor, the most likely to be killed off in the story, are the ones who just don't fit in League gameplay-wise anymore

RogueWillDec 24, 20161 votes

not really. there are a bunch of champions that could be removed without altering the plot at all. First you have the undead champions Urgot and Sion you can kill them, they will provably just be reanimated. Same can be said about Darius if he were to die he woudl just be reanimated.

Then you have champions that just have background lore but aren't really moving forwards. Alistar Aatrox Blitzcrank Fiddlesticks etc....they just exist, they don't have any conflict with any parties (not significant anyway) and being removed from the lore woudl change anything.

Pretty much all champions from the void are expendable. Exceptions Kassadin and Malzahar where removing one or the other would affect all void monsters a a whole.

parties removed from there original faction are expendable as well as they have weak lore. Veigar and Lulu for the yordles, MonkeyKing Ahri Skarner Twitch for semi monsters and a bunch of exiles from all the other nations.

The shadow isles champions as a whole are also removed withotu much change to the big picture, they woudl be replaced with new soldiers. Probably the expections are Maokai and Yorick since the are the opposition.

HalfTangibleDec 24, 20161 votes

The big problem I have with League's lore RN is that pretty much EVERY champion has plot armor. Sure, things can happen to change how they behave or to introduce new ideas (see Burning Tides and the Harrowing) but none of them are going to be permanently killed. After all, if they're killed, none of them can actually fight if they're dead. Riot will never pull that trigger.

That wouldn't be a problem except that champions are elites in their world, and as such can only be fought and believably opposed by other champions. Which means you have a situation where neither the protagonists or the antagonists of any story can lose their power/threat. Xerath will never take over Shurima because to do so he needs to kill Sivir and Azir, the two strongest claimants remaining. Lucian will never save Senna because that would require he destroy Thresh. Sejuani will not win the war in the Freljord because if Ashe loses Sejuani will definitely kill her which means Lissandra's treacherous ass wins, etc etc.

There's an inherent drama to having two champions in this game duke it out, because the players are already invested in the outcome. I usually play Tristana, Vi, or Kindred. If Trist and Vi ever-

... that would piss me off because it would come out of left field, lemme try that again.

I used to main Shyvana and Sejuani. If they ended up facing off for whatever reason (say Demacia decides to side with the Avarosan from Quinn's reports on the region) the stakes would already be high because I love both of these characters to death, just from playing around with them so much. But since we know the outcome's major points already the drama's hit hard.

ThorgramDec 25, 20161 votes

I agree, but i would like that they do.

They have shown that they can resolve conflict between champs. But for some stories to go forward ( You named some of them : Azir/Xerath Lucian/Tresh Battle for Freljord ) they would need to kill some of them.

For the moment, they seem content to go sideways, just exploring all the regions, more of a passive style with subplots which will just give us some backstory.

I main Renek, and i love Nasus. I would love to see some kind of conclusion to their problem. It can be done peacefully, but i feel like the death of Nasus to bring back Renek to his senses would be cool, and then Renek die trying to get revenge on Xerath. That would be cliché but meh.

I think the Freljord is a main contender, because it would cause a main shift in Valoran politics.

Or there's a giant void invasion, and Runeterra get eaten by some giant voiddy thing. The END.

GreenLoreDec 25, 20161 votes

Well in the end nothing forces them to remove a champion from the game when he dies within the lore. Sure in Gangplanks case they removed him from the league for a short time when everyone thought he was dead,but there is nothing that forces them to remove a champion permanently when they die in the lore(they could just return them a week later anyway)

Sure they will surely not kill off any champions anytime soon,but thats more because that would waste the champions potential,they need to explore the champion enough before they could even consider killing them off.

HalfTangibleDec 25, 20162 votes

Remember that time when it was implied in the lore that Jarvan had been killed and replaced by LeBlanc?

I just recently found some of the comments from that era, pissed off because it meant their favorite champ no longer was their champ.

It's true you could just leave them in, but it would just create an even bigger disconnect between the champions and the players. Unless it's revealed League Summoners can summon people from all across time or some s#@$ but then you're back to making Summoners all-but-gods.

GreenLoreDec 25, 20161 votes

People were pissed off about it,yes,but people also calmed down eventually.

Also there is no connection between the game and the players in the first place,the game was declared non-canon already,the institute of war doesn't exist in the lore anymore.

HalfTangibleDec 26, 20161 votes

Not that kind of connection, mate - an emotional one.

GreenLoreDec 26, 20161 votes

Well you were the one who talked about how this would make summoners op in the lore,when there were no summoners anymore to begin with(at least not like they used to be)

And honestly I think that is something that shouldn't prevent them from killing champions in the lore. I mean when you play a dragonball game and you play as frieza,do you think you'd feel much of a disconnect just because frieza is dead?Not really,because you know the game does not represent the actual canon. And people grow attached to characters in any medium,so by your logic death shouldn't happen in any kind of medium.

HalfTangibleDec 26, 20161 votes

I meant Summoners in general, not League Summoners. WoG says they still exist, just not to the same extent/power in the old lore.

(Yes I know I said League Summoners, that was a typo, sorry, my bad)

I mean when you play a dragonball game and you play as frieza,do you think you'd feel much of a disconnect just because frieza is dead?Not really,because you know the game does not represent the actual canon.

There's a reason that DBZ games usually take place over the entire saga. There IS a disconnect when you know Freeza's already dead, but that disconnect already exists because you're playing something separate from the main lore. However, in League's case the lore directly affects the game (even now that the game itself is noncanon - see Gangplank).

And to be frank, nobody plays DBZ games for the lore.

And people grow attached to characters in any medium,so by your logic death shouldn't happen in any kind of medium.

... this is literally the EXACT OPPOSITE of what I... sigh Okay, lemme try this again.

I don't have a problem with stories that don't feature death if other elements are good, but when your story HAS death, it should have teeth and weight. There should be meaning.

Death in fiction is interesting because it inherently changes the dynamic of the characters in the story. They can't be relied on anymore to push the narrative forward, and there's a void that they once filled that the other characters now react to. Hughes from FMA, Kamina from Gurren Lagann, Dumbeldore from Harry Potter, take any death that you actually gave a shit about and you'll notice that they tended to influence the narrative long after they were gone, and usually not through flashbacks and the like, but just 'i wish this person was here' kinda things.

The issue is that for League in particular death is NEVER gonna happen to any of its characters on a permanent basis, rendering it completely meaningless from a dramatic/narrative standpoint. It's the same problem you see in comic books: "Superman's dead" is met with "I give it a week". To borrow from a video on another topic, you might as well put them on a bus for a few weeks for all the difference it makes in the story.

And while I could buy Riot TRYING to kill off a character, I don't see any way it could last, simply because the fans care so much about their particular favorite champion. I brought up Jarvan IV being replaced by LeBlanc because it demonstrates the exact problem: the fact that people thought the character they were playing was a fake pissed a lot of them off. Look at Gangplank. The guy was gone for about a week or two and then was brought back because Bilgewater needs a pirate, I guess?

Now, again, I don't have a problem with League never killing off/retiring champions per say, but it severely limits what you can do with the champions' storylines if they have to always be able to go toe-to-toe with the best in the world.

GreenLoreDec 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I meant Summoners in general, not League Summoners. WoG says they still exist, just not to the same extent/power in the old lore.

(Yes I know I said League Summoners, that was a typo, sorry, my bad)

You talked about how this would make the summoners even more op,which really isn't an issue if it only affects the ingame summoners.

There's a reason that DBZ games usually take place over the entire saga. There IS a disconnect when you know Freeza's already dead, but that disconnect already exists because you're playing something separate from the main lore. However, in League's case the lore directly affects the game (even now that the game itself is noncanon - see Gangplank).

And to be frank, nobody plays DBZ games for the lore.

You know its kinda the other way around,as people play the dbz-games because they like the dbz-main series,which essentially means that yes,they actually do play the dbz-games for the lore of the main canon. In fact LoL there is likely a much larger group of people who only play the game for the gameplay and not the actual lore.

Also the effect on the game doesn't need to be big,permament or even be there at all(nothing prevents riot from just saying that they don't disable the champion upon death anymore,because that got quite some flak)

... this is literally the EXACT OPPOSITE of what I... sigh Okay, lemme try this again.

I don't have a problem with stories that don't feature death if other elements are good, but when your story HAS death, it should have teeth and weight. There should be meaning.

Death in fiction is interesting because it inherently changes the dynamic of the characters in the story. They can't be relied on anymore to push the narrative forward, and there's a void that they once filled that the other characters now react to. Hughes from FMA, Kamina from Gurren Lagann, Dumbeldore from Harry Potter, take any death that you actually gave a shit about and you'll notice that they tended to influence the narrative long after they were gone, and usually not through flashbacks and the like, but just 'i wish this person was here' kinda things.

The issue is that for League in particular death is NEVER gonna happen to any of its characters on a permanent basis, rendering it completely meaningless from a dramatic/narrative standpoint. It's the same problem you see in comic books: "Superman's dead" is met with "I give it a week". To borrow from a video on another topic, you might as well put them on a bus for a few weeks for all the difference it makes in the story.

And while I could buy Riot TRYING to kill off a character, I don't see any way it could last, simply because the fans care so much about their particular favorite champion. I brought up Jarvan IV being replaced by LeBlanc because it demonstrates the exact problem: the fact that people thought the character they were playing was a fake pissed a lot of them off. Look at Gangplank. The guy was gone for about a week or two and then was brought back because Bilgewater needs a pirate, I guess?

Now, again, I don't have a problem with League never killing off/retiring champions per say, but it severely limits what you can do with the champions' storylines if they have to always be able to go toe-to-toe with the best in the world.

Your arguement boils down to "there can't be death,because people won't die permanently,because people are so attached to these characters" So that last bit in bold is basically the whole basis for your arguement here,but people being attached to a certain character is no valid arguement as for why they shouldn't kill off a character,because thats what happens all the fricking time in several medias. Yes comics tend to revive most characters,but LoLs lore doesn't need to follow the comics formula to a T.

In fact from what the rioters have said,it actually sounds a lot like they are indeed planning to kill off characters,with some comments already being made about how "Xerath might see the error in his ways in his final moments" or that "morde would be vulnerable when he tries to become alive again"

Heck there isn't even much need to revive a character in LoLs lore,since there is nothing that stops the lore from releasing lore pieces that cover some other time before the death of the character.

HalfTangibleDec 27, 20161 votes

You talked about how this would make the summoners even more op,which really isn't an issue if it only affects the ingame summoners.

I'm dropping this one; I think we were addressing two different points and thought we were talking about the same thing?

You know its kinda the other way around,as people play the dbz-games because they like the dbz-main series,which essentially means that yes,they actually do play the dbz-games for the lore of the main canon.

You're being deliberately obtuse here, right?

Nobody plays DBZ games to get their lore fix, they've got the main series for that. That was the point.

So that last bit in bold is basically the whole basis for your arguement here,but people being attached to a certain character is no valid arguement as for why they shouldn't kill off a character,because thats what happens all the fricking time in several medias.

It's different here. To use a metaphor I just now thought of: every League of Legends Champion is the main character to somebody.

How many series have you seen where the main character dies, and then the story continues for long? (putting aside things like Yuyu Hakusho or Re:Zero where their death is a part of the set-up/premise)

Yes comics tend to revive most characters,but LoLs lore doesn't need to follow the comics formula to a T.

No need? No. But they will.

Hell, if there's anything from comics to copy here it would be that.

In fact from what the rioters have said,it actually sounds a lot like they are indeed planning to kill off characters,with some comments already being made about how "Xerath might see the error in his ways in his final moments" or that "morde would be vulnerable when he tries to become alive again"

Because no company's ever said anything about their characters and then reversed their decision later, right?

Certainly not Riot.

[slayer-jinx-wink]

I'll believe it (maybe) about three years after it actually happens. More likely it won't happen at all, which is fine.

GreenLoreDec 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'm dropping this one; I think we were addressing two different points and thought we were talking about the same thing?

You're being deliberately obtuse here, right?

Nobody plays DBZ games to get their lore fix, they've got the main series for that. That was the point.

My point is,that other games do have disconnects like these too and they are doing fine. The game does not reflect the exact state of the lore,just like 90%of the fighting game-adaptions from other series. The difference being that in the case of LoL you had the game first and the lore second,wheras in other adaptions its the other way around. However in the end the result is the same. You have games that draw from a cast,where some people are already dead.

It's different here. To use a metaphor I just now thought of: every League of Legends Champion is the main character to somebody.

How many series have you seen where the main character dies, and then the story continues for long? (putting aside things like Yuyu Hakusho or Re:Zero where their death is a part of the set-up/premise)

Well there are actually quite a few: First of all Prequels in general tend to have this happen to them,the entire reason why the cast of a prequel isn't alive anymore in future parts is usually because the characters die at some point of the story. Star wars is a good example of this,with Darth Vader and Obi wan being dead at the end of the original trilogy,despite them being main characters in the prequel-trilogy.

Another example that comes to my mind(without being too spoilery) is Jojo's bizarre adventures,one of the longest running mangas of all time,which is a series that is seperated into different parts(basically story sagas) and in each part the series replaces its main cast(and main character) with new ones,which pretty much leads to the fact that in some parts several of the main characters(including the protagonist) die towards the end of the part(the surviving ones can come back in later parts,where once again,there is a real chance of them dying)

And then there is obviously Game of thrones/a song of ice and fire...

Also there are series where the main characters die at the end of them,which would be easily possible as well in LoL,since we don't have one big overarching story,but multiple small ones. Once the champ dies,their story would be over for good.

No need? No. But they will.

Hell, if there's anything from comics to copy here it would be that.

And why will they?You just say they will,but in the end there is nothing that confirms this.

FasmodeyDec 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You talked about how this would make the summoners even more op,which really isn't an issue if it only affects the ingame summoners.

You know its kinda the other way around,as people play the dbz-games because they like the dbz-main series,which essentially means that yes,they actually do play the dbz-games for the lore of the main canon. In fact LoL there is likely a much larger group of people who only play the game for the gameplay and not the actual lore.

Also the effect on the game doesn't need to be big,permament or even be there at all(nothing prevents riot from just saying that they don't disable the champion upon death anymore,because that got quite some flak)

Your arguement boils down to "there can't be death,because people won't die permanently,because people are so attached to these characters" So that last bit in bold is basically the whole basis for your arguement here,but people being attached to a certain character is no valid arguement as for why they shouldn't kill off a character,because thats what happens all the fricking time in several medias. Yes comics tend to revive most characters,but LoLs lore doesn't need to follow the comics formula to a T.

In fact from what the rioters have said,it actually sounds a lot like they are indeed planning to kill off characters,with some comments already being made about how "Xerath might see the error in his ways in his final moments" or that "morde would be vulnerable when he tries to become alive again"

Heck there isn't even much need to revive a character in LoLs lore,since there is nothing that stops the lore from releasing lore pieces that cover some other time before the death of the character.

I dont know where you read "final moments of Xerath" thing. I just remember that his perspective is gonna change.

I would be so pissed of, if they ever killed Xerath, because It is too cliche and predictable. It makes lore boring af, good vs evil (which is not entirely but that's where it is gonna be), good defeats evil, everyone lives peacifully.

Xerath is more interesting than nearly entire league for me. If I read his death, I would probably break from lore.

Death of mortal characters are more belivable than demigods anyway. Why the fuck would Sivir live against Xerath? Even a single think from Xerath could break every bones she has instantly. He could seperate her head from her body in a second.

As I said before, It would be like killing Archimonde. They would go back and revive Xerath for their loss. Some villains in stories without end are stable. They are necessary.

GreenLoreDec 27, 20161 votes

It was somewhere around one of the shurima updates,that someone asked if Xeraths perspective might change in the future and they responded with "maybe in his final moments".

Keep in mind that this does not mean that someone like Sivir will outlive him.

FasmodeyDec 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It was somewhere around one of the shurima updates,that someone asked if Xeraths perspective might change in the future and they responded with "maybe in his final moments".

Keep in mind that this does not mean that someone like Sivir will outlive him.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/0dWJrpAK-what-would-xerath-do-in-oppressive-immense-void-invasion?comment=0000

That's the only answer I remember, and you know how much I follow Xerath lore, including Rioter answers too.

GreenLoreDec 27, 20161 votes

I remember that post as well,but I mean a different one. Tried to find it but without success,so its up to you if you believe me about this or not.