I don't really approve of the way Riot handles lore criticism.

ModCaptainMårvelous··14 votes·863 views

Let me paraphrase that I don't go into this wanting lore to be bad. I don't go in with a smug sense of satisfaction when it turns out the lore isn't great. I like League lore, I want it to be good and, honestly, most of Riot's new lore has been pretty high quality. That said, the way Riot handles criticism isn't something I approve of.

So let's focus on DyQuill's comment from the board thread:

Totally agree - this bio doesn't do Varus' tragic backstory justice. Fortunately, we're gonna release a lot more than just this bio.

I have another comment that's on the last page at the moment, but TL;DR this was an accidental early release and just a snippet of the full narrative still to come. Don't expect anyone to think it's a good story based on my word alone, but trust me when I say there's major context that might change your mind about the quality of his updated lore.

Do you see any problems with it? Well, here are my issues.

1.) Riot isn't really responding to criticism in this case.

I know DyQuill is agreeing that it's not up to snuff but...doesn't offer more than that. He/She does offer something but that's for part number two. This statement (if I was a huge Varus fan) does nothing to ease my concerns about his lore. This just tells me it's a fraction of what I should expect. Sure, you can't judge an entire novel by the first page but that gets to my next point.

2.) The response is "Trust me"

See, the problem with most Riot lore threads is that if we hate it, we're told "You don't have the whole story" or "Trust me, the additional pieces will make it make more sense". This is a disastrous way to deliver lore to people. Imagine if I was writing a fan fiction and said "Then Caitlyn activated the Piltover Orbital Cannon and obliterated Noxus". You'd go what the fuck, right? Me saying "Don't worry trust me when you know the WHOLE story it's way cooler" doesn't really excuse the jarring and sudden change.

3.) Riot is overly confident in their new lore.

Granted, this is deservedly so. Riot's lore team, despite the memes, is world class. I sure as hell couldn't get hired and I doubt anyone here really could. That said, there's an air of arrogance that seems to permeate whenever Riot talks about lore we don't know yet. "Trust us, I've read it and it's SUPER good" or "All your concerns will evaporate when the new lore comes out". Yes, you can be confident, but good god why does it always feel like I'm being spoken down to? What if I don't like the new lore? Am I just not getting it? Are there more novels I have to read? Especially for such a player-focused company like Riot this feels like I'm being told that I just don't get it, man.

4.) It's a bad opening paragraph.

One of the most cheesy recommendations you get when reading a book, watching a show, whatever is that "it gets better after <x>". Sometimes it's true, sometimes it's bad, but no matter what it tells me that there has to be a time investment for me to get enjoyment. Hell, sometimes bad shows/books are propelled by fantastic openings/first installments and only degrade from there. But a bad opening is still a bad opening. It does not instill confidence that the opening paragraph is so utterly bad for Varus that Rioters are coming out for damage control. BE? Sure, new system. Gameplay? It's the game. But a single paragraph of lore? Isn't that...telling?

The main problem with all of this is that I feel like the lore is cocked, locked and primed to be fired at us. Even if the backlash was so universal Tencent and Riot Presidents were calling the lore team going "What have you done!?", it wouldn't be fixed. I feel like Varus's lore change is a foregone conclusion with little in the way of modifying the story. At the end of the day, once you release a character to a fanbase you're technically losing control as Bioluminescence said. The issue is that Riot is grabbing this butterfly, turning it into a moth, and giving it back to us: Yeah, it's technically the same, but maybe we wanted a bit more butterfly and a little less moth.

24 Comments

Beyond Legends8 votes

Honestly what did you exactly expect them to say without spoiling the story?

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO5 votes

You would think the boards would have patience after all this time.

Beyond Legends4 votes

To be fair I was kinda worried about tho whole Varus change too. Because I thought he was going to ship with the rest of Ionia cast during Irellia VGU which ships probably around March.

But it seems that the lore is dropping Nov 30th, so I'm kinda excited too.

Killaburn2 votes

what!!!!! where did you hear that?

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO2 votes

There’s a rioter comment on one of the Varus threads.

Killaburn2 votes

link please. thanks :)

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO2 votes

I’m on mobile, sort the board by recent and look for MM’s post with the Rioter comment

Killaburn1 votes

ok thanks

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO6 votes

Well what do you want them to say?

ModCaptainMårvelous8 votes

Literally anything of substance?

Maybe you can't go into detail but you can talk about the disconnect/connection to Varus's old lore and his current character. Maybe tidbits that inform about aspects? Not give away the whole story but actually explain why they went this path and what the rough goal is for Varus. I'm not expecting the whole story to drop but you can do a far better job of alleviating player concerns than "Wait and see".

Beyond Legends5 votes

How exactly are they going to explain varus new decision when we don't even understand the full context of varus new lore?

No offense but this is literally asking for spoilers but no spoilers plz.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO9 votes

Well it’s not like the lore is going to be like this forever, I believe Riot stated the full lore is going to drop in like a week.

And I would’ve thought the boards would be more patient, I remember a bunch of instances where the boards learned of a tiny piece of lore and proceeded to pull out all the pitchforks, only for the full lore to drop and everyone to just go “oh, there never was a problem”

I get being frustrated, but this is like standard PR 101, Riot doesn’t want to ever say anything they don’t want to be held to in the future.

Lastly, it’s placeholder lore. It’s a 5-6 sentence bio that’s only purpose is to provide a rough, general description of the character. You can look at the bio’s for any champion, the full character is never found in that short paragraph.

Quepha5 votes

The problem is that lore rewrites have been this bad for years and they’ve always just stuck to it because so few people care about the lore in general that they can get away with it.

Pantheon was just as bad.

Trundle was just as bad and overwrote more past content.

Mundo’s is even worse.

Orianna’s isn’t as poorly written but is still more confusing as to why Riot arbitrarily changed it.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO4 votes

I can see being angry over Pantheon, but Mundo and Orianna? I’m pretty sure their lore straight up improved.

That being said, you can’t just make sweeping statements about all the lore re-writes being bad, it’s disingenous and doesn’t really lead to condusive discussion.

Beyond Legends2 votes

I'll be honest, I wasn't that much of a fan of Mundo's change. I kinda wished that they went a evil bruce banner and the hulk approach with mundo.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO2 votes

Well not every piece is a winner, but I wouldn’t say that the lore is ever garbage or anything. I remember when there was almost no lore (like the first year or so after the retcon) and the whole “dark and mysterious past” was all some champions got.

Quepha4 votes

You're kidding, right? Mundo's new lore is straight-up awful. I've never seen people so consistently turn up their noses at a piece of prose. And his old lore so perfectly captured people's idea of what it means to be a Zaunite.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO3 votes

Well I must have never seen it. I enjoyed the Mundo story, if not for the fact that I wasn’t even sure what Mundo was beforehand beyond “sadistic”

JacctheInsomniac3 votes

[deleted]

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

I'm more so talking about accolades and the things the team has under their belt rather than directly what they've made in terms of League of Legends. Graham Mcneill could botch every single story while he works at Riot and I think he'd still be highly praised for his work in the 40k universe. While I'm not going to point fingers, sometimes it -is- the material and not the people working with it. See: Amazing actors in terrible movies.

Nylisa2 votes

while i do understand and kinda agree with some of your points here i do have to make a defense case not just for Riot but for many people here.

you are one of the Forum active members yourself and you can see many posts from Rioteers here, if you pay attention to the reactions and behaviours of people you notice that there is a lot of hostility and negative reactions against them sometimes even attacks, they slip up and say something, you instantly see topics after topics attacking and condeming them for whatever it is they said.

sometimes people make up things out of what is been said by Rioteers that i didnt even think it would be possible to deduce from what they stated.this sort of hostility is not only toward Rioteers but its toward many of the fans and players as well, people cant share their ideas , can't share their suggestions ,they cant talk about how they feel ,negative feedbacks are considered bit...ng and whining and whoever does it is called "cry baby"or worse. half of the posts are full of comments with downvotes and people trying to shoot each other down for no actual reason."anything others say that is not what i like to hear i downvote it even if they make great sense"

im not saying they are handling it well but i cant really blame them for being vague and unresponsive, if any rioteer is reading this please forgive me for this rude comparison but this feels like a game called Whack-a-Rioteer the moment they show up to say something BAM , they get hammered!

this is going back so far its hard to recognize which one started first, Riot holding back on feedbacks or people being hostile toward them.

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

The thing is, I'm not exactly being hostile. I'm being critical, sure, but not overtly hostile.

The problem with what you're saying is that it also works in reverse: How you can't be critical or negative about something without being labeled a hater or a troll. That kind of thing stifles the process of feedback. The best you can really aim for is feedback with purpose and sincereity.

I didn't write this because I wanted to make a Rioter cry and I was well aware of my position as an Archivist. I made this because I was disappointed with how it was handled. It made it because I expected better of Riot comparative to how they can be. Is it a misstep? In my eyes, yes, but that doesn't mean I want to see the whole lore team fired. I like them, I think they usually do good work, but in this specific case I don't think their argument or how they handled the criticism was representative of the quality I expect from them.

Nylisa2 votes

No no please, you misunderstand me, im not accusing you of being hostile, im saying i think this kind of vague and "trust me" feedbacks plus all the issues you listed,might be caused by the hostility of some people toward them, not you. so instead of just trying to explain then getting negative reactions in return,they leave it at "wait and read the final work" sort of comments.

but you have a good point it can work in reverse, i just dont think they have a very high opinion of the feedbacks here because many of them are just based on personal feeling rather than having some sort of purpose and sincereity.

JarPoop IV1 votes

U see, this is the problem with it dropping early and unintentionally. There is no way for them to defend themselves without absolutely spoiling the thing. It should have came together. The, what is essentially, a hook and the ACTUAL STORY.

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