Pennywise is what Shaco should be.

ModCaptainMårvelous··33 votes·7,934 views
https://pmcvariety.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/it-trailer.png?w=670&h=377&crop=1

I just got back from seeing "It" and the movie was pretty good. What stole the show, however, was the actor portraying Pennywise. It got me thinking about how effective Pennywise was as a villain and it made me think of how much Shaco lacks in this department comparatively. I want to go over my reasons without delving into spoiler territory so, if you're worried I'll break things, don't worry. I'm going to do my best to avoid any sort of spoiler talk. I'll be focusing on the strongest aspects of Pennywise that could work with Shaco.

#Pennywise lives in the Uncanny Valley.

Just look at the picture I posted for the header. He's got odd teeth. His eyes don't seem to be completely right. He's got odd proportions that really make you question if he's even real. This is one of the best strengths of the way he looks: He makes you question if you're looking at something really there. So how could we do this with Shaco?

Shaco is an older model and, as such, moves stiffly. Oh, it works fine, but we can do better. Maybe Shaco jitters as he moves. Maybe as Shaco attacks, he's hitting in a way that really shouldn't work. Maybe he's just moving in such an awkward fashion that it's uncomfortable. Comparable to a creepy character like Jhin, who has fluid and refined movements to the point of it being creepy, Shaco should be the polar opposite; A shakey, inhumanly moving mass of parts in a vaguely human shape.

#The Story we're given.

Shaco's current lore is another "lol who knows OOOH SO SPOOKY" collaboration. While this could work, IMO it serves as a detriment. Without any even CORE theory to go with, we're just told to assume whatever we want about Shaco. This open-ended topic ends up hurting Shaco because we're told that Shaco is whatever we want him to be.

Comparatively, while we're only given a bit (Or perhaps too much if you read the books), Pennywise has a lot left to the unknown but still has legitimate rules. We know enough that he comes out at times, he does and most of all, we know that HE IS CLEARLY NOT HUMAN. Every little factoid we know about how abnormal this monster is drives the characters closer to being unable to explain things.

Shaco, imo, should be the same way. In making Shaco less human, you open the door to more frightening concepts of exactly what he is. The more horrible Shaco is, the easier it is for us to question what he is and where he comes from. This also makes it easier to design a kit around Shaco. After all, if he's bordering on that terrible territory of "eldritch beast we can't comprehend", there's way more interesting things you can do with his kit. Speaking of...

#The Core Goal

Shaco's goal isn't really clear, which I suppose is something "fun" about him; He does it just because! This, however, doesn't really make him too interesting of a character. Shaco is fairly one dimensional and does stuff just because he's getting a laugh from it.

In comparison, Pennywise has animalistic-but-clear goals. It wants to feed on both flesh and terror. It's a predator that hunts and kills easy prey (Children) to sate it's own desires. This is where Pennywise is most terrifying: It doesn't hate anything or kill out of spite. It just wants to live as it always has in the most animal-like way possible.

In this idea, Shaco might need a moire clear goal. That doesn't mean, of course, it has to be so clear that Shaco loses his chaotic nature. Maybe his goal is to cause as much strife as possible to as many people as possible. Maybe Shaco feeds on chaos and needs things to go as fucky as possible for him to thrive. There's a lot of angles you can take with this but in all of them, Shaco has a more clear goal. A method to his madness. Even if in the end he's just doing what he always did.


One thing I should make clear is that this is just personal conjecture and opinion. I'm not going to profess that Shaco should just be a carbon copy. However, this movie and the character gave me so many good ideas and inspirations for Shaco that it makes me sad that this is what Shaco is currently in the lore; a random murderer who has no clear explanation. I also want to add that I don't think Shaco's entire kit should change. It could, sure, but I'm not going to say that it needs to.

Shaco is a wellspring of untapped potential and Pennywise is one of the many paths Shaco could go down. Let me know what you think and if this is more in line with what you think Shaco could/should be or if you have another inspiration for the character.

41 Comments

Ebonmaw Dragon18 votes

I do believe that Riot can differentiate Shaco from Pennywise (and the Joker)

So, in my opinion Pennywise is what Shaco shouldn't be.

Just look at other champion that they remade: Warwick ... Before his VU he was an standart "werewolf", but now, he is an awesome chemtech Quimera.

Right now, Shaco is a simple copy/mix of The Joker/It, but he can be better.

ModCaptainMårvelous4 votes

Eeeeeeh. There are aspects of a classic werewolf there as well as the homonculus-style character. The goal shouldn't be to 1:1 copy what works (as I pointed out) but take the ideas that do work and put a unique spin on them.

And honestly, Shaco really isn't "anything" right now IMO. He's a crate of scary clown stuff with no real direction.

Hemulen Magi6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ebonmaw Dragon,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=GI2YPYHp,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-09-16T01:40:38.020+0000) Right now, Shaco is a simple copy/mix of The Joker/It, but he can be better.

Actually, the inspiration for Shaco comes directly from a character named "Pagan" in the old "Lady Death" franchise. Considering the age of the Riot developers who designed Shaco, they grew up watching this and reading Lady Death comic books. Take a look for yourself: https://youtu.be/nigTl525PiU?t=1h6m48s

Watch until around 1:08:00 to see this noob Shaco getting executed by his wolves camp. X D

If you watch the whole movie, you'll even see that some of Shaco's quotes are sourced from this. His voiceover, visuals, teleportation/stealth, etc. were all inspired by Pagan, court jester of the prince of darkness.

As a Shaco main, it was unmistakable when I saw it.

Shaco's "Why so serious?" quote is directly from the Joker however. I doubt that the original IT was a major part of the inspiration. Shaco = 80% Pagan > Joker > Minimal other source material and original concepts

Epicurus12 votes

Personally I've never liked the theory that Shaco is a demon. To me, this makes him basically Nocturne or Fiddlesticks in a different form, and not unique from the rest of League's champions. I prefer the idea that he is just an ordinary human who knows how to get under people's skin. I know this makes him very Joker-esque, but the Killer Clown archetype doesn't really leave room fro a lot of originality.

But in honour of Pennywise's glory, Shaco's dance post-VGU should be this: http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/293/317/1e5.gif

Lord DoNotSmile1 votes

{quoted}

Personally I've never liked the theory that Shaco is a demon. To me, this makes him basically Nocturne or Fiddlesticks in a different form, and not unique from the rest of League's champions. I prefer the idea that he is just an ordinary human who knows how to get under people's skin. I know this makes him very Joker-esque, but the Killer Clown archetype doesn't really leave room fro a lot of originality.

But in honour of Pennywise's glory, Shaco's dance post-VGU should be this: http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/293/317/1e5.gif

Make it so Fids, Noc, and Shaco are the same entity but those are his different forms (lorewise ofcourse). He could be like an "Outer God" kind of being, and those characters being what the people of Runeterra saw him as in different parts of history (sort of like Aatroxx's lore).

Epicurus3 votes

Evelynn, Fiddlesticks, Nocturne, Shaco, and maybe even Aatrox could conceivably all be different forms of Tahm Kench. His catfish form is a manifestation of the gambler's greed, but the demon can theoretically take forms appropriate to _any _ exploitable weakness (lust for Eve, violence for Aatrox, paranoia for Nocturne, etc...)

This confusion is precisely why I don't want anymore demon characters, and prefer Shaco just to be human villain.

And before anyone points it out, yes, I know demons and Darkin are different things.

Fasmodey3 votes

Shaco as ordinary human would cross with Jhin a lot. Only significant differences would be Jhin does it because it is addiction, and Shaco does it because it is fun. Jhin does it with artistic way and in order, Shaco does it with savage way and in chaos.

Shaco as demon would also be more dangerous and scarier, which what we want from Shaco. Shaco as human could only hunt humans, but as demon he can even be a rival against characters like Warwick. Shaco scarying a being like Warwick would be much more satisfying than scarying an average human in other say.

Epicurus2 votes

My vision for Shaco is very different to Jhin, and different to Shaco's current in-game incarnation. I don't see him as someone who kills people for fun, as I find that a rather boring premise for a character. I see him as someone who drives them into killing each other, attacking entire societies at once by exposing the weaknesses of their ideals, and manipulating all their secrets to come to light. In this incarnation, he'd be an ideal villain for Demacia; most Demacian champs already have a hidden secret, and all it would take is Shaco giving them a really bad day to push them over the edge. So basically Heath Ledger's joker instead of Mark Hamill's.

Also being a human does not have to limit Shaco to antagonising other humans. He still have a champion's power-level, wether that be with magic, or magical artefacts, or just old-fashioned cunning.

This is based largely on my own fan-works. Often I confuse canon and fanon in my head, and only realise it _after _ I've made posts.

DrugsForRobots1 votes

That kind of shits on Shaco, don't you think? He was a the DEMON before Aatrox and Tahm Kench ever were, and could conceivably be older than both of them. If anything Tahm Kench would be a alternate manifestation of Shaco, but having X different champions all be the same guy in different guises is BS.

Lord DoNotSmile1 votes

{quoted}

That kind of shits on Shaco, don't you think? He was a the DEMON before Aatrox and Tahm Kench ever were, and could conceivably be older than both of them. If anything Tahm Kench would be a alternate manifestation of Shaco, but having X different champions all be the same guy in different guises is BS.

Ah, your right it was kinda of a bad idea. I do think that Shaco isn't terrifying as he should be in the lore though, it's kinda bland and really doesn't tell you a whole lot. The "he could be anything" story just gives me the impression that even Riot doesn't know what his lore should be.

Whyte Lyon7 votes

God there is something about that scene which has been imprinted into my mind. It's not haunting or horrifying, just really hypnotizing.

Amazing that's exactly how the previous generation felt with Tim Curry.

Epicurus5 votes

His head stays too still for how much the rest of his body is moving. Uncanny valley at its finest.

Dreamspitter1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Whyte Lyon,realm=OCE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=GI2YPYHp,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-09-16T14:11:51.031+0000)

God there is something about that scene which has been imprinted into my mind. It's not haunting or horrifying, just really hypnotizing.

Amazing that's exactly how the previous generation felt with Tim Curry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOdeiOeBHxY

JooshBox1 votes

{quoted}

Personally I've never liked the theory that Shaco is a demon. To me, this makes him basically Nocturne or Fiddlesticks in a different form, and not unique from the rest of League's champions. I prefer the idea that he is just an ordinary human who knows how to get under people's skin. I know this makes him very Joker-esque, but the Killer Clown archetype doesn't really leave room fro a lot of originality.

But in honour of Pennywise's glory, Shaco's dance post-VGU should be this: http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/293/317/1e5.gif

Holy shit, this dance is amazing!

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

It's creepy like hell.... yeah.... it basically screams Shaco.

RiotInterlocutioner12 votes

Awesome post! It's amazing to think that not too long ago, Shaco was granting interviews to journalists, and threatening them with movie quotes. Which has a certain amount of charm. (Check out JoJ issue 13 [zombie-nunu-hearts]) But as Runeterra becomes a richer setting for storytelling, I think we can find room to make him Shaco even more horrifying.

And yeah, I saw the movie last night and can't stop thinking about it/It either.

DrugsForRobots1 votes

I hope you guys can do him justice. I think the more challenging issue with Shaco is the direction you take his art / visuals. Giving Jhin that smiling mask really ate up some of Shaco's potential narrative space as the killer who really loves what he does. And then there's that issue of the mask in the first place, old Shaco's splash was just his face, but the new one depicts him with the mask - does Shaco keep the mask or will his smiling face be in the flesh? Does he get clown makeup emphasizing his grin like Heath Ledger's Joker or Bill Skarsgard's Pennywise? Or do you go the ear-to-ear contorted grin of Jack Nicholson's Joker or Tim Curry's Pennywise? I don't really want him to look like a Juggalo...

And then there is the issue of his armor and clothing being symmetrical - I really like that about him, and I hope it's not discarded, but I feel like he could be more visually interesting. I think the black and red and bits and pieces of armor are good colors too.

I think Shaco suffers a bit from what Darius and Gangplank both had going on, whereas they are (or were) 'ax guy' and 'pirate', Shaco is just kinda... 'Runeterra's Joker' in the eyes of the community, which I think does him a disservice.

Edit: I also want to point out that I think Shaco could have the whole 'double' or '2' theme played up, like how Jhin gets the number 4, Shaco's kit and visual references 2 a lot, but his gameplay doesn't really emphasize it beyond his clone letting there be 2 Shacos.

ModCaptainMårvelous2 votes

Just give Shaco an ability that turns him into that fucking painting monster and we're golden.

Like that painting monster fucked me up.

La Bello4 votes

I actually dont think Shaco NEEDs to be horrifying.

Honestly I would be happy if Shaco was a dangerous solipsist goofball who only see's Runeterra as his playground and more than anything wants to avoid being bored.

Personally I already think we have enough "scary" champions like Nocturne and Fiddlesticks and I would much rather see someone with the attitude of Kefka Palazoo https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/d/d9/PAD_Kefka_artwork.jpg/revision/latest/zoom-crop/width/480/height/480?cb=20161017171650

or " the Joker". you know someone who acts silly and treats nothing seriously despite being extremely dangerous. Even Shaco RIGHT NOW has no real elements of scary besides his mask-face. His quotes are pretty funny and not at all intimidating along with his various behaviors like doing the worm.

If in the Shaco rework Shaco suddenly took a more edgy turn and started mumbling about death, souls,murder and wanting to feed" I would be pretty disappointed.

If you are going to make shaco like "Pennywise" then please only take inspiration from the scenes where he acted like a total buffoon

                                                                                         **SPOILERS**

-the Fridge scene when he struts towards the kid in a goofy manner -him waving hello with the disembodied arm -the dancing jig he did in a effort to spook Beverly into the cheerleader jump

                                                                                         **END SPOILERS**

tl;dr Please dont go full OW THE EDGE with Shaco update. keep his mannerism goofy and lighthearted even though his kit may not reflect it. Theres no point to keeping Shaco a clown if he doesn't act like one! blowing Raspberry's, doing the worm and juggling while laughing like a idiot is a vital part of his character.

also P.S the new IT was not scary lol. It was much more akin to Cabin in the Woods where it has all the elements of a horror movie but ultimately ends up a comedy. Unless you are the kind of person which Jumpscares work on each and everytime IT should have been a great laugh for you due to the sheer absurdity of the scenes, awful CGI and legendary acting. Still enjoyed it though. It entertained me none the less even if it didnt do so in the way advertised.

https://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/runescape2/images/7/71/Gregorovic.png/revision/latest?cb=20160402211348

Nettioma1 votes

Agree i would love to see shaco as Lol's Joker. But who would be batman*[sg-miss-fortune]*

La Bello1 votes

Vayne.

Vaynes entire story has always been a parallel to batman's origin stories. Their names even rhyme Tryndamere is also Conan the Barbarian rip off.

thats classic LoL lore 101.

Lord DoNotSmile1 votes

{quoted}

Agree i would love to see shaco as Lol's Joker. But who would be batman*[sg-miss-fortune]*

BruSwain :))))))))))))))) get it? cuz wayne and swain, bruce wayne..... er... ima leave now.

Linna Excel1 votes

Is horrifying the right direction though?

I mean look at Joker. Depending on how he is portrayed, while he can be scary at times, his menace is a little different than full on horror. This is especially true when you consider the 3 Jokers theory.

If anything I'd think Shaco would be better off with a more colorful and charismatic direction that his darker impulses are channeled through. Don't get me wrong, the uncanny valley and horror go hand in hand, but I don't think that's the best direction for Shaco.

Nettioma1 votes

Are u guy's gonna make JoJ story's cannon again. But some re-writing. It would be like Aley's jorney of runeterra where he come to see some champs like shaco, see eve and tf doing tango, Malz tricking kassas child to void etc. I WOULD LOVE HAT

dengen4 votes

You mentioning Shaco could feed and thrive off of chaos, and seeing Pennywise feed off of the terror and fear of children, could Shaco poison children's minds to act erratically? This made me immediately jump to Jinx.

In Ekko's lore, he says he had a crush on her until she started talking to a gun. Was this an immediate, sudden shift for her? I guess the stress of living in Zaun could drive a person crazy, maybe she was just born crazy.

What would this do to Jinx as a character if we find out shes been influenced by a Shaco, a chaos demon or whatever. Just my thoughts....

biomaster2 votes

I SHIP THEM AND I SHIP THIS![slayer-jinx-wink]

Craft Zeppelin3 votes

I always thought that shaco does not even care about anarchism. Just pure chaos.

For me shaco is a "anomaly" or glitch in the magic system of runeterra. He is no one, not even living but some sort of natural disaster lashing out.

TheGoomyGamer3 votes

I don't know if it was the way you phrased it, or what, but that sounds fucking epic. A glitch in the system that exists purely to cause chaos. Badass. If shaco ever gets a rework, GU, vu, whatever, it better be this.

Craft Zeppelin1 votes

{quoted}

I don't know if it was the way you phrased it, or what, but that sounds fucking epic. A glitch in the system that exists purely to cause chaos. Badass. If shaco ever gets a rework, GU, vu, whatever, it better be this.

I personally think about this because he uses spells that are downright IMPOSSIBLE for a individual. He must be some sort of anomaly.

Like for example we have a lot of dash spells in this game, but in the case of pure teleportation, it costs a lot.

Examples. A goddamn world rune. A ancient bracelet. Being consumed by the void.

Fyi. Shaco does this simply blowing himself up. At this point you might be wondering if this is even "magic".

Dreamspitter1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Craft Zeppelin,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=GI2YPYHp,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2017-09-18T04:07:31.404+0000)

I personally think about this because he uses spells that are downright IMPOSSIBLE for a individual. He must be some sort of anomaly.

Like for example we have a lot of dash spells in this game, but in the case of pure teleportation, it costs a lot.

Examples. A goddamn world rune. A ancient bracelet. Being consumed by the void.

Fyi. Shaco does this simply blowing himself up. At this point you might be wondering if this is even "magic".

Remember the WORLD RUNES?

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/ldtXvTNo-riot-world-runes-rune-wars

http://i.imgur.com/mjAcXBR.jpg

Other than updated Ryze what do we know?

Dreamspitter2 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmnLRSHJSg8

Think about it for a moment. Riot has plans.

Chembaron Yamada7 votes

Lissandra Plans within plans

SomeDudeJoe1 votes

I disagree. Pennywise is a coward. He needs fear to kill. Shaco will just stick a knife in your back, whether you're afraid of him or not.

Dreamspitter2 votes

Dont you remember that League interview where Shac killed a guys family and friends one by one....until the guy killed himself?

Red Rocket1 votes

{quoted}

I disagree. Pennywise is a coward. He needs fear to kill. Shaco will just stick a knife in your back, whether you're afraid of him or not.

She's an interdimensional super being that existed in the Todash Darkness prior to the creation of existence. She only uses fear because it "seasons the meat".

Gildarzt1 votes

I like your idea, I think he needs a better lore and a goal in life XD

And of course I think is nice that a archivestment talk about shaco in NA forum, I think maybe this helps shaco to get his full rework soon :P

pd: with full rework I mean vgu and kit rework, but actually kit rework needs only a few changes in my opinion (i would change E for a dash and Q with a bleed and speed boost) :P

COBRA C0MM4NDER1 votes

Pennywise is a multidimensional monster with many forms.

Shaco is a demonic Jester.

Shaco makes me think of Juggalos for some odd reason.

whereas Pennywise...conjures up all the scary things. Even things that cannot exist by normal laws of physics and evolution.

DrugsForRobots1 votes

For me, Shaco is like Littlefinger from GoT, but different in the sense that he's not playing with any end game in mind. He doesn't want power or to rule, he's just manipulating different events and heroes for his own amusement.

IGotScuttleCrabs1 votes

If they really wanted Shaco to have a Pennywise influence they could give him a scaling power based on kills/assist. The more "fear" he's caused the stronger he gets. I know this has caused issues with Kindred though.

Perhaps he can lose stacks when he dies but to reduce the chance of being shutdown so hard he's out he wouldn't fall below (x) amount.

Example: Shaco gain x power for each kill and assist. After gaining 1 stack he can't gain another for 60 seconds (to prevent things like shiv/tiamat and a good team fight from giving him a ton of stacks). Upon death he losses 2 stacks but can't fall below 5.

Edit: I'd also give him a timer before he can gain a stack on the same person again. Like how kindred can't just farm stacks on 1 person.

Filthy Rank1 votes

i think the three core element of Shaco personnality as a chaos nightmare is his invisibility/boxes/clone, i wouldn't mind too much if the rest is changed :)

La Bello1 votes

ehhh

I wouldnt mind if Shaco lost the invisbility part for some other misleading tools.

his Invisibility is actually the part of his kit that makes him so pub-stompy and hard to balance. Once you get fed enough the invis just allows you to repeatedly kill the same targets over and over with no real room for warning.

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